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Sengoku 11: Jorge Santiago vs. Mamed Khalidov

over 2 years ago Tiny Venom77 46 comments 5 recs  | 

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The Ref was in the way

but it looks like Khalidov stunned him with a backfist from the bottom. Impressive.

"Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity." - Bullet Tooth Tony
@deowade

by Damon O. on Nov 7, 2009 9:48 AM EST reply actions  

Hammerfist

But yeah. Very surprising nonetheless.

by Ahhhoki on Nov 7, 2009 12:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Pathetically, Santiago is ranked in the Top 10 by subjective rankers. According to my objective rankings (based on actual wins over ranked opponents) Santiago is the #30 MW.

by klown on Nov 7, 2009 10:06 AM EST reply actions  

objective mathematical fightmatrix rankings have him in the top 10 http://www.fightmatrix.com/mma-ranks/middleweight/

http://www.mmarocks.pl
https://twitter.com/mmarocks_pl

by Venom77 on Nov 7, 2009 10:25 AM EST up reply actions  

oops

My comment below was meant to be a reply to this.

by klown on Nov 7, 2009 10:59 AM EST up reply actions  

The system is interesting but it’s not clear what elements are being factored in. Lines like this worry me: “However, there are some prediction-based elements. So in summary, you could say the system is a hybrid of popular thought and prediction analysis.” (From Fight Matrix’s explanation of the system".)

The beauty of my system is its simplicity. It’s not an attempt to predict “who would beat whom in a hypothetical future match-up?”. It’s simply a record of who beat whom in the past.

by klown on Nov 7, 2009 10:59 AM EST reply actions  

So your ranking system is clearly flawed when a top ten fighter is the 30th MW.

http://www.mmarocks.pl
https://twitter.com/mmarocks_pl

by Venom77 on Nov 7, 2009 11:01 AM EST up reply actions  

I know what he’s saying, Santiago moved up the ladder with relative isolation from the rest of the mw top ten.

by cagefightonacid on Nov 7, 2009 12:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

so what?

beating two decent top 20 fighters is sometimes worth more than beating one top 10 fighter

For instance were Okami wins (Starnes, Singer, Swick, Lister, Tanner, MacDonald) better than Santiago’s (Prangley, Sasaki, Clark Bahadurzada, Nakamura, Misaki)? Don’t think so.

You can argue about Jorge place in the top ten, but saying that he is/was 30th MW is a farce. Fabiano was also ranked in top ten and lost to Semezier, it doesn’t his previous ranking was somehow wrong. No to mention how Serra embarrased GSP.

http://www.mmarocks.pl
https://twitter.com/mmarocks_pl

by Venom77 on Nov 7, 2009 12:37 PM EST up reply actions  

okami? top 30?

I didn’t say that stuff, all I said was that his rank was inflated, which can’t really be argued anymore

by cagefightonacid on Nov 7, 2009 1:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

MMA-Elo

Is objective and included in the consensus rankings. It is based entirely on wins-loss record, and the quality of competition at the time of the event. It had Santiago as the #6 middleweight at the time of this event.

by loboplata on Nov 7, 2009 4:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Man, Santiago is fragile.

by dancingChicken on Nov 7, 2009 11:25 AM EST reply actions  

YES!

I love it when absurdly overrated fighters get handled.

The guy gets beat out of the UFC, beats a bunch of borderline Top-40 guys, and is 6th in the world???

Man, that made my day.

by SidHartman on Nov 7, 2009 12:37 PM EST reply actions  

he beat two top guys

Misaki has wins over Dan Henderson, Denis Kang — back when Kang was in the top 5 (was the first to beat Kang in 3 years). Nakamura was top 10 light heavyweight for a long time. Thos are impressive wins and ignoring or denigrating them reflects more ignorance than sagacity.

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by Kid Nate on Nov 7, 2009 12:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Nakamura- Top 10 LHW, are you serious??
Beating Kevin Randleman 5 years ago does not a top- 10 LHW make. Neither does a
13-10 record.

Your right about Misaki’s decision win over Hendo 3 years ago. I guess following up those wins with a loss to Frank Trigg kinda soured me.

And Santiago was/is overrated.

by SidHartman on Nov 7, 2009 1:08 PM EST up reply actions  

again

my opinion on rankings is that they’re all subjective and basically meaningless beyond a way to keep track of fighters who are actively competing and to spur discussion. Can be useful for matchmakers too.
But whether you want to accept it or not, Nakamura spent many months on some to the most reputable top 10 lists in the sport. I’m thinking specifically of MMA Weekly, Sherdog and Full Contact Fighter.
That’s based on my memory so I’d be interested if someone wants to actually check the records — if they can be found.
Trigg was on a tear when he beat Misaki. Ask Mayhem Miller.

The variables of MMA are so enormous that MMAth has very little applicability. One fighter can undergo such massive changes in their level of formidability due to factors like injuries, motivation, training camp changes, personal problems and bad skill set matchups that it’s not really fair to bash fighters based on post-facto evaluations of their opponents.
For example, when Matt Hughes barely beat Carlos Newton at UFC 34 it was an epic win over an absolutely top fighter. With in a couple of years a win over Newton was nothing impressive.
Also see Tim Sylvia. When Randy Couture and Big Nog beat him it was big doings. But by the time he got crushed by Fedor and then Mercer he was dismissed by almost all. And clearly the Tim Sylvia that got in the cage with Mercer was not the same fighter that faced Couture or Fedor.

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by Kid Nate on Nov 7, 2009 2:26 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Nate, you still think Mamed is overrated?

by Chris Nelson on Nov 7, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

My bad, I think “over-hyped” is what you said. He’s hardly rated.

by Chris Nelson on Nov 7, 2009 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

this! the internet is FULL OF HATERS.

"I’m not going to stop yelling because that would mean, I lost the fight!"-Kenny Powers
shooter/cutter for AllElbows.com

by ekc on Nov 7, 2009 12:46 PM EST up reply actions  

BUT CHRIS!

If you lose a fight in the past you can’t possibly ever improve or anything. You can win 10000 fights but the second you lose it just proves how overrated you were all along.

Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 7, 2009 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

I got no problem with guys losing to TOP fighters and still being highly ranked.

Getting KO’d by something called Mamed Khalidov should drop you like a rock down the rankings.

by SidHartman on Nov 7, 2009 1:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Mamed Khalidov is unbeaten in last 18 fights with 17 stoppages. He is also ranked first at LHW in Europe.

http://www.mmarocks.pl
https://twitter.com/mmarocks_pl

by Venom77 on Nov 7, 2009 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

There is no shame in getting KO’d by Khalidov. He is a stud.

by Steve4192 on Nov 7, 2009 1:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Not knowing who Mamed Khalidov is

disqualifies you from having a valid opinion. Fail on SO many levels.

Supporting all Las Vegas MMA. Xtreme Couture FTMFW.

'09 is the year of the FW's.

by ElliotMatheny on Nov 7, 2009 5:48 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Getting KO’d by an upside down hammer fist will tend to do that, especially when the guy guy getting KO’d has a history of being knocked senseless by featherweights (Gamburyan), ham & eggers (Leben) and wildly inconsistent gatekeepers (Belcher). I was super pissed when Affliction Trilogy was canceled and Vitor lost the opportunity to expose Santiago’s paper mache chin, but Mahmed doing it with a hammer fist from his back might be even better.

Oh and for the record, I am enjoying it both ways. Santiago’s chin sucks and Khalidov is for real.

by Steve4192 on Nov 7, 2009 1:23 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

If Santiago went out to a standing combination I think it’d be different. As it is he went out to hammerfists from the bottom, which is just flat out weird. The story coming out of this fight is unfortunately going to be Santiago’s chin and not Mamed’s power.

by omigawda on Nov 7, 2009 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

well, considering that he was basically tko’d from being in the top position, the reaction is understandable

by cagefightonacid on Nov 7, 2009 1:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Yeah, I just rewatched, that was pretty goofy. I get the reaction, just think it’s funny (and unfortunate for Mamed, but he’ll have his time in the sun, no doubt).

by Chris Nelson on Nov 7, 2009 1:50 PM EST up reply actions  

no, you're right though

mamed needs respect too, obviously it was a hard shot

by cagefightonacid on Nov 10, 2009 9:39 PM EST up reply actions  

using a football analogy to analyze santiago

offensively, his skill set is definitely top ten (despite his extremely tentative game plan against khalidov).

defensively (including his chin) he may not be in the top 100. Ive never seen fight changing damage from the ground with a hammer back-fist. And his chin-first approach to the Octagon was awful.

pretty much, he is the Saints from 2008.

by pmac06340 on Nov 7, 2009 1:48 PM EST reply actions  

Denis Kang is very similar

great offense, terrible defense.

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by Kid Nate on Nov 7, 2009 2:28 PM EST up reply actions  

The big difference between Kang & Santiago is that Kang’s problems are fixable. He has all the physical attributes and skills needed to be effective defensively, he just has a horrible habit of letting his concentration drift and making boneheaded mistakes at the worst possible time. Santiago’s problems are physical and he is stuck with them. The dude was cursed with a crappy chin. No amount of training or sports psychology can fix that.

by Steve4192 on Nov 7, 2009 2:52 PM EST up reply actions  

The bottom punch was right on the jaw shorting his brain… some people are just more prone to this type of KO because of their head shape.. like arlovski

by pandaboy99 on Nov 7, 2009 2:32 PM EST up reply actions  

By the way, for fellow nerds who enjoy looking at updated profiles, results are in the FF now:

http://www.sherdog.com/events/Sengoku-Eleventh-Battle-11439

by Chris Nelson on Nov 7, 2009 1:52 PM EST reply actions  

Khalidov to strikeforce time

by pandaboy99 on Nov 7, 2009 2:26 PM EST reply actions  

I think Khalidov has two more Sengoku fights on his contract. I’m guessing a title rematch with Santiago will be one of them.

by JRN on Nov 7, 2009 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Sengoku deal is not exlusive, he can fight in Strikeforce jus like Antonio Silva

http://www.mmarocks.pl
https://twitter.com/mmarocks_pl

by Venom77 on Nov 7, 2009 4:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Ah, good point. I knew that it wasn’t exclusive, but I didn’t think there was any overlap between Sengoku and Strikeforce, particularly after the much-ballyhooed DREAM alliance. Forgot all about Bigfoot.

by JRN on Nov 7, 2009 5:30 PM EST up reply actions  

And he’s an m-1 fighter isn’t he.

by John Nash on Nov 7, 2009 7:24 PM EST up reply actions  

No, he’s not. He’s managed by KSW and Shu Hirata.

http://www.mmarocks.pl
https://twitter.com/mmarocks_pl

by Venom77 on Nov 7, 2009 9:42 PM EST up reply actions  

No, he’s not. He’s managed by KSW and Shu Hirata.

Haha, really? Didn’t know that. That’s cool.

by Chris Nelson on Nov 8, 2009 10:33 AM EST up reply actions  

Wow that was pathetic Khalidov is an up and comer imagine what would have happened if he fought Vitor Belfort like originally scheduled.

by buttters on Nov 7, 2009 2:51 PM EST reply actions  

I spent a lot of time imagining that fight. Most of it involved Santiago looking up at the lights and then struggling to get up and walking like a newborn deer.

by Steve4192 on Nov 7, 2009 2:54 PM EST up reply actions  

The fact that a guy with talent like Santiago is cursed with such an awful chin is heartbreaking…

by Tonley on Nov 7, 2009 3:14 PM EST reply actions  

Catchweight Mirror Match

Gegard Mousasi vs. Mamed Khalidov

by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Nov 9, 2009 4:09 PM EST reply actions  

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