Strikeforce: How Can Brett Rogers Beat Fedor Emelianenko?
by Kid Nate on Nov 4, 2009 5:47 PM EST
in MMA News
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Kevin Iole talks to several of the top trainers in MMA and gets some ideas:
- "In my opinion, from observing him, his weakness is his standup. He’s very, very effective in how he does it, but on a technical level, you can definitely outstrike Fedor. You have to remain calm and I see that as an area where Fedor himself is super, super strong.
"But as a striker, he’s not technically correct, not the way boxers or pro kick boxers would be. He’s an extremely hard puncher, though, and he’s so explosive. Without a doubt, he’s the most explosive heavyweight out there."
Javier Mendez of the American Kickboxing Academy- Emelianenko’s biggest weakness might be something he can’t control: His size. Emelianenko is 6-feet tall and weighs around 230. Rogers is 6-foot-5 and will come in around the heavyweight division’s 265-pound limit.
Greg Nelson of the Minnesota Martial Arts Academy- Rogers might be best simply rushing Emelianenko at the start of the fight.
"When you fight him, obviously, you have to take what your guy does best and in Brett’s case, that’s his standup. Brett’s a strong guy and hits extremely hard. If he catches Fedor, he could do something, but Fedor is such a good counter puncher and he throws from such weird angles you don’t normally see that it creates a lot of issues."
Duke Roufus- "The guy is a monster, from what I’ve seen, but Andrei showed you can have success against him if you’re very technical with your boxing."
Greg Jackson- "And all the pressure is on Fedor here. Brett can’t be shaken in the mental game. He shouldn’t worry about fighting the legend of Fedor but should just focus on fighting Fedor the man. Arlovski showed it can be done. Every human, including someone as great as Fedor, is beatable. Fedor’s not getting younger and the pressure on him is just building and building. At some point, he’s going to lose. Someone will do it and Brett’s got to be thinking he’s the guy because he has the power and he has the opportunity."
Mark DellaGrotte of the Sidyongtong Muay Thai and Mixed Martial Arts Academy
Before we all tear into these comments, bear in mind that all of these guys heaped effusive praise on Fedor and his abilities and I didn't repost all of that stuff. Also Fedor is human. The meme that is being pushed by Frank Shamrock and others that "Fedor has no weaknesses" is just bull. We've seen Fedor rocked by punches by Kazuyuki Fujita at PRIDE 26. We've seen Kevin Randleman suplex him on his head. Sure he recovered with other-worldy aplomb and quickly won both fights, but there is some reason to believe he is merely human after all.
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“But as a striker, he’s not technically correct, not the way boxers or pro kick boxers would be
How technical would you say Rogers is? Other than the Arlovski fight, I’ve never seen him.
"That feeling after you win and they raise your hand... it's like you have this energy that releases from your body, and it's like you mingle with the cosmos, and you feel omnipotent"
I don't think ROgers posses the type of hand speed and footwork Arlovski does, and he'd have to rely on a Fujita-esque punch.
Officially now the head of the Lobstein bandwagon.
not very
he’s got great power, his punches aren’t as looping as Fedor’s but it’s not like he’s a model of form himself.
He reminds me of a young George Foreman — lots of insanely powerful arm punches and he batters guys down with sheer power. Not that accurate but the power makes up for it. He can stagger a guy by punching their shoulder or an arm covering their face.Not that great at exchanges because generally if someone is trading with him they’re going down.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Here’s my thing about the technical aspects of striking….
It only truly matters if the opponent is going to try to “technically” beat you in the stand-up game. In terms of a technical breakdown, Fedor doesn’t have to be technical. He can be very quick and explosive and beat loads of technically-better stand-up fighters based on two specific attributes: speed and power.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Nov 4, 2009 6:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
don't forget his chin
and terrifying ability to suddenly transition into a takedown.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
And I think that’s what sets Fedor apart from every other HW, his transition ability. Really, the only fighter I can think of off the top of my head that transitions as well (and I think even better) is Shogun.
I think smooth transitions from disciplines is something that really lacks in MMA currently and can really set guys apart if they do it right.
B.J. Penn
and maybe GSP in some regards. But to me Fedor and Penn are very very similar in their stand up and transition game. Little different on the ground.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
B.J. probably deserves to be mentioned, I think GSP is slightly worse at it than those three. What’s interesting to me is the only people we came up with are some of the top guys in the P4P “rankings” with Anderson being a notable exception.
I don’t know if I should consider not needing to transition well as a knock against him, or maybe he can and just doesn’t need to. He did transition brilliantly against Nate the Great, but that’s the only time I ever noticed it.
Anderson is so otherworldly good at striking
that there’s much less need to transition.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
yeah he went toe-to-toe with Cro Cop, a great kickboxer, and emerged victorious. it’s been a while since i saw that fight, i probably need to re-watch it
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
It’s hard to use that fight as a true measure of Fedors stand up because Mirko was constantly hesitant to pull the trigger for fear of Fedors clinch.
Exactly
It is amazing how much people forget that the threat of a takedown can change the striking game considerably.
See GSP Alves as one very recent example (GSP beat him standing)
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Nov 5, 2009 7:32 AM EST up reply actions
The other very dangerous thing about Fedor is his head movement and counter-striking ability. He rolls and ducks into the most contorted positions, yet still can throw powerful and accurate hooks. It’s uncanny. Even generally good punchers like Cro Cop get caught with his counter-strikes as he rolling or bending away from them.
And as for head movement – watch those glf of Fedor rolling with Arlovski’s punches. I thought he was getting killed until I saw those.
With how relaxed
Fedor was in that fight and how he was rolling with the punches, it’s easy to see why people thought he was losing the fight. I agree with you though, it was a thing of beauty and….well….how did it end again? Oh yeah……
Rogers standup?
I see him beating Anderson Silva, I see him picking him apart, him at 131 years old
"I want to tell me what you see, let's go ahead and see by the fight what you saw, in the ring"
Andrei Arlovski was not outstriking Fedor Emelianenko.
That is all.
by Hesperus on Nov 4, 2009 6:05 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
let’s see, we can take Greg Jackson and Mark DellaGrotte’s word for it, or yours. Think I’ll go with the former.
by andherewego on Nov 4, 2009 6:08 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Just watch the fight yourself, frame by frame, and you will see it yourself.
- mixed, not shaken
Editor-in-Chief: All About Russian Mixed Martial Arts (Fedor Emelianenko, Aleksander, M-1 Global,etc)
Yeah, people go overboard with that. Arlovski grazed Fedor at most, he never got the best of him. Just cause Fedor didn’t go in there and bash his face in doesn’t mean Arlovski was winning.
by ontite on Nov 4, 2009 6:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He didn’t land a ton of huge shots that staggered Edor or anything but he was definitely landing more punches until he fell asleep in mid-air.
by ufc4 on Nov 4, 2009 6:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Randleman was outgrappling Fedor until he tried to scratch that itch on his back.
by Hesperus on Nov 5, 2009 2:09 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
ha
I think this is after the Cro Cop fight?
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
We’ve seen Kevin Randleman suplex him on his head. Sure he recovered with other-worldy aplomb and quickly won both fights
Lmfao, what he basically said was that, “sure Fedor can get caught with your best effort, but you can’t beat him”.
This. It would take the greatest debater ever to convince me the Randleman toss showed one of Fedor’s weaknesses.
It showed he could be out wrestled and out muscled. Granted, it took a beat of a man to do it but if Hammer House had ever bothered learning about that BJJ fad he might have done something with it.
He wasn't outwrestled, only outmuscled.
Fedor showed superior skill. Randleman just lifted him straight up with sheer power twice.
Agreed. His weakness is that in all of his fights he’s been rocked twice, and that when you rock him, he comes back stronger and crushes you? Good luck exploiting that one.
What’s funny to me is that Fedor’s notable weakness (and, for my money, his only weakness) is not mentioned here – he cuts easily. Might CBS be gun-shy after Thompson’s Amazing Exploding Ear and be pushing for earlier stoppages? It’s not a bad route to take if your Rogers.
Of course, that requires Rogers to last more than a few seconds, which is a tall order.
HeadKickLegend.com
by Fraser Coffeen on Nov 4, 2009 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't bring that up but I should have
fortunately (or conveniently for Fedor) Strikeforce doesn’t allow elbows on the ground. In the UFC I think he’d be taken down and elbowed to a quick cut TKO by Lesnar.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
The no elbows also gives Fedor the opportunity to throw on armbars from the bottom when his opponent postures up for GNP.
Weak rule
Elbows on the ground are an aspect to fighting.. That cripples a majority of successful G&P’ers .. Randy, Tito, Florian, Hughes, GSP, etc.. are juts some of the more popular fighters that come to mind off the top of my head that use that very aspect of fighting to get them to where they are today..
If Fedor is truly the best then I say, let him prove it without constant stipulations.. I know it’s SF’s rule.. But I say we unify the rules of combat set in place as the UFC has and make a unified combat set of rule’s for all MMA orgs to follow.
What that tells me is there is still an aspect of the game that he hasn’t proven he can truly overcome.. Elbows are a very mitigating factor in a fight. It means the person on top doesn’t have to completely posture up to inflict damage by using an elbow. Thus staying compact enough to not leave openeings for armbars while trying to defend the position all together.. It basically says.. Ok you’re on the ground, but I can still stay offensive because I know you have to create distance to hurt me and that plays into my strengths in BJJ grappling and submissions.
Just think exactly how that truly changes the dynamics to a fight in a major aspect. Would GSP be as dominate if he couldn’t use elbows on the ground ?? That’s a major weapon in his arsenal … If you didn’t have to defend an onslaught of elbows from the bottom, wouldn’t that create more space and opportunity to work submissions without the fear of being pinned and beaten on ??
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
Prime example
Penn vs. Hughes 2
Hughes had the TD on Penn in the first round. Had top position and started to land shots from the top. When he postured up to throw the big “elbow” on Penn, Penn ducked and swept Hughes, using Hughes own momentum against him to take Hughes’ back. Then as Hughes tried to buck him, Penn rolled into an armbar / triangle combo, almost stopping the fight there.
But that was a very dynamic part of the fight and Penn had to be mindful and defend at the same time. If you take that away, the Penn could have laid there looking for Hughes to constantly posture up while working a sub attempt.
It basically sped the action up because Penn didn’t want to eat elbows that cut you in the fight.. He was forced to action under that rule..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
All rules are arbitrary
I agree, elbows on the ground are an aspect to fighting, but so are soccer kicks, stomps and knees to a grounded opponent’s head. The no elbow rule is there to help prevent cuts that would lead to a stoppage and keep the action moving by preventing fighters from just laying on opponents and occasionally dropping elbows on them. I personally prefer elbows, but I also prefer knees and kicks to grounded opponents.
by John Nash on Nov 4, 2009 9:04 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Some fighters say they would have to be carried off the ring/cage before giving up or tapping. Fedor loves to test this theory.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Nov 4, 2009 6:24 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Ha, what does Freddie Roach have to say about it? Boxing technique does not equal mma technique. Fedor throws Sambo punches which loop and can benefit with a takedown or block an incoming hook… its intentional, not sloppy.
Whether or not Arlovski was winning with his punches, it was only a matter of time before Fedor would have effectively taken him down and finished him a different way.
this is a 5-rounder, right?
I don’t think it matters, but is this 5 rounds? i would certainly think the good bets on this fight are taking either one by stoppage in the first or 2nd. Seeing Rogers win in a decision is almost virtually impossible (which means it will happen if i bet against it). I do have .33 unit on Rogers at +500 when it first came out. Would love to see him somehow pull it out and make up for my dopey bet on Chuck to win Dancing with the Stars at +800. Should just start practicing flushing money down the toilet
Also, I thought i read before one of Roger’s fights is his dedication to working on Muay Thai. I wonder with his size advantage if he will have any chance of implementing any Muay Thai?
Tim Sylvia got Fedor into Muay Thai clinch – it worked really well for him, didn’t it? :)
- mixed, not shaken
Editor-in-Chief: All About Russian Mixed Martial Arts (Fedor Emelianenko, Aleksander, M-1 Global,etc)
Brett Rogers Can Beat Fedor By Nuking Him From Orbit
I’ve watched a few fights with opponents vaguely similar to Brett Rogers (Hong Man Choi, Gary Goodrige, Mark Hunt, Kevin Randleman) that Fedor Emelianenko has fought before. I don’t give Rogers much of a punchers chance. Emelianenko has shown that against heavy strikers with superior reach, he likes to fire a few of those loopers, clinch up and take it to the ground.
While Rogers isn’t Choi, Goodridge, Hunt or Randleman, I don’t see him being able to defend a takedown from Emelianenko. From there on out, it’s just a countdown until Emelianenko gets one of Rogers’ extremities and bends it in ways God didn’t intend.
I’ve watched a few fights with opponents vaguely similar to Brett Rogers (Hong Man Choi, Gary Goodrige, Mark Hunt, Kevin Randleman)
LOL
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
I’ll take strong black guys with silly hair for $200 Alex.
by ufc4 on Nov 4, 2009 9:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
“Also Fedor is human.”
I’ve seen no evidence of this. Where’s your proof?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
So did Mary...
But Jesus was something special… :)
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
Yeah, because only humans reproduce...
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
From afar it might appear that the pressure is growing on Fedor because eventually he will lose. However, Fedor has no fear of losing and has already accepted it’s inevitability. He has no pressure or fear because he has no attatchments to status or reputation.
I’m still putting a small play on Roger’s cause I think the time may have arrived. He has an obvious path to victory and I’m beting he can take a stiff punch.
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