UFC 107 Preview: How BJ Penn Became The Prodigy
Thomas Gerbasi of UFC.com has up an article on the seven defining moments of BJ Penn's career. It's actually a really great list that takes into account that many times losses define a man as much as the impressive wins. But still, BJ had some damn impressive wins:
Caol Uno – November 2, 2001 – UFC 34
Result – Penn KO1
Penn burst on the UFC scene in May of 2001, when he made his pro debut with a first round stoppage of Joey Gilbert at UFC 31. After following that win up with a stoppage of legitimate contender Din Thomas in the first round at UFC 32, he was pitted against Japanese star Caol Uno in what was seen as yet another test. Penn - who admitted staying up nights with a nervous energy while waiting for the fight to come - tore out of his corner at the opening bell, and 11 seconds later, he was victorious after a vicious striking demonstration. What most may remember from the fight though is Penn sprinting out of the Octagon and back to his locker room after the fight, showing that there is no one in the fight game quite like him.
A lot of people looking back at BJ's career, especially those newer to the MMA game, don't appreciate just how amazing the way he blew out Thomas and Uno really was. These guys were legitimately at the top end of the division, not just in the UFC but in the world.
At the time of these fights BJ was one of the greatest representations of what the sport would become. He possessed some of the most amazing BJJ in the sport, had explosive striking and was a naturally great athlete. Regardless of the fact that we've found out that he isn't going to be successful above 155 long term, nothing can take away from how great he is at his ideal weight.
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As far as BJ love goes, this thread from Sherdog......
from a few years back sums it up best IMO:
http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f2/all-newer-fans-why-bj-so-respected-585130/
An excerpt from the thread that nailed it
His next move was to crazy even for him. I remember when it was announced he moving to HW to fight undefeated sensation Machida there were people saying they were going to stop being fans of his because he was too ir-rational.
Fears were confirmed, and Penn lost. However it was a razor-thin decision that could easily have gone his way.
Think about it. Machida has dominated everybody he has fought, including brutal stoppages of Bonnar and Franklin, he is currently considered the biggest prospect in the LHW division. Yet he barely beat a guy fighting at least 50 pounds over his ideal weight. You guys still wanna say that BJ is over-rated?
most reasonably knowledgable MMA fans know he isn't overrated
a dick? maybe. A sally boy? In a few instances. But you can’t challenge that he is hands down one of the most gifted fighters to ever grace the cage/ ring.
I was thinking about this the other day: Penn, Silva, (now) Aldo. None have the physique of a god or anything, they aren’t heavily musculatured, but yet possess immense power and speed for their frames. Just something interesting to me.
The ironic thing about Penn, Silva and Aldo is that they are seen as unbeatable, but surprisingly don’t have a wrestling base (I know there are similarities to wrestling and BJJ, but there still a big difference). I say this because many say that the best base in MMA to have is wrestling (which I find true as well), yet these fighters are at the very top and don’t have that base.
This is an interesting point.
I think pretty much everyone agrees that if you had one background upon which to create The Perfect Fighter, he’d start off being an elite national competitor in collegiate wrestling. This is due to a few main factors, I think, but I could be missing some.
First, wrestling is in the subconscious of the entire USA culture. Most people don’t know the rules, except that someone is trying to pin someone else. But pretty much every high school has a wrestling program, so everyone has some exposure to it during their formative years. Also, complain all you want, but the toughest guys are generally not balling in the winter months of high school, they’re out on the mats. That garners recognition right there.
Second, wrestling is the ultimate Meat Grinder for removing people who don’t have strong willpower and a minimum athletic makeup. If you’re not at least average strength, you’ll fail in wrestling. If you’ve got poor cardio, you might as well not strap on the headgear. It doesn’t seem like much, but six minutes locked in mortal combat with someone who is at least as physically gifted and determined as you are is more than the vast majority of people are capable of enduring. So the wrestling base ensures that the person has a minimum athletic profile, a strong will to maintain the work ethic required to maintain competitiveness, and a basic background in hand-to-hand combat.
Third, and this is something I’ve only recently formulated into words (at least in a way I can convey to others), wrestling is about controlling your opponent. It is literally about subjugating another person’s entire body (and mind) to your will in order to dominate them as completely as possible. This is a mindset which we see play out time and time again in the octagon, or whatever the designated terrain. Wrestlers can control, and in fact revel in controlling, the terrain of the fight. So many times we see a fighter say “Wherever this fight goes, I’m ready. If it’s on the ground, I’m dangerous there, if it’s on the feet, I’ll knock him out” blah blah blah. You very rarely hear a wrestler say this, and why? Because the wrestler is focused on actually controlling where the fight takes place. At its core, BJJ is a style which answers the questions “What do I do if I find myself in a terrible position? How can I achieve victory from a position of weakness?” Wrestling answers the question “Can you make sure you are always in a position of strength, regardless of your opponent’s abilities?”
I know that’s a tirade, and I’m sorry. Bottom line, wrestling is the best base for a fighter, if for no other reason than the different mentality which wrestling confers. But there are specimens like BJ Penn for whom the background is utterly irrelevant. He is a gifted physical specimen (flexibility like his actually grants abnormally high strength, since the muscles are capable of contracting that much further) and has the heart of a fighter. He succeeds because of who he is. Lyoto Machida succeeds with the abnormal backgrounds of Karate and Sumo because of who he is.
I hate BJ’s personality, but that man is a pleasure to watch fight.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Nov 30, 2009 11:04 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
i'm sure you wrote a lot of well thought points in there
but c’mon man, comments aren’t for essays
No need to read it
if it’s not up your alley. No problems :)
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Nov 30, 2009 11:06 PM EST up reply actions
it’s not that it’s not up my alley, and now i’ve read it. but you could definately make it much more concise.
here: Wrestling is probably the best base to have for MMA, because you have great cardio and an ability to control where the fight takes place.
BAM.
Except that doesn't make a handful of other points found in the "essay."
Like I said, it’s no problem if people skim over my comments. I skim over long ones also, but if there’s something in there that catches somebody’s eye, then it’s a win/win.
And you’re the first person that’s ever complained about my posts being too long. Interesting. Have things changed that much in the last three months?
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Nov 30, 2009 11:14 PM EST up reply actions
Dude...
don’t enforce your own ideas of what an acceptable comment is. If he wants to post a long thought…it’s cool
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by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 30, 2009 11:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i'm sorry, i'm in the wrong
i’m apparently the only one who doesn’t like reading diatribes. this isn’t my internet, or my website, so misterjonez, i apologize, and i look forward to skimming your novels in the future.
flexibility like his actually grants abnormally high strength, since the muscles are capable of contracting that much further
You’re wrong sir.
It’s also interesting that although wrestling is considered a base for a perfect fighter, there’s no one who could back this thought up (GSP doesn’t come from wrestling). Just like chrisbboy82 said: Penn, GSP, Silva, Fedor, Torres, those are the fighters who are (Torres were) on top of the food chain. You could add p4p prospects like Aldo, Machida.
by dancingChicken on Dec 1, 2009 4:14 AM EST up reply actions
Just because GSP doesn’t come from a wrestling background doesn’t mean he doesn’t have a wrestling base.
Yes it does.
He NOW uses wrestling, but didn’t really get into it until he’d already been a contender for years. His BASE is Kyokushin karate because that’s what he started out in – this is what base means.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
Actually “base” has several different meanings, one of which is:
the principal element or ingredient of anything, considered as its fundamental part:
Wrestling is most definitely the “principal element” of GSP’s game.
Yeah, many words have many meanings, but I was referring to one particular meaning which jamaleddin mentioned.
It’s obvious that wrestling is the principal element of GSP’s game. No discussion here.
But almost half of the comment I was replying to was about benefits of collegiate wrestling (mentality, toughness, blah blah).
by dancingChicken on Dec 2, 2009 4:22 AM EST up reply actions
There is one
BBBBBBRRRRRROOOOOOOCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKLLLLLLEEEEESSSSSSSNNNNNAAAAARRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!
I think you are very right...
about the last generation of MMA stars. This current generation and those that will follow will likely not follow a set pattern of developing from a specific base skill.
Given the proficiency of Brazilian and Japanese MMA fighters, as well, I would say wrestling is probably a big deal to American fighters, but not a universal truth.
and that domination of rua
…
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
The thing that bothers me most about Hughes' decline
Is that we will never get to see a Bj/ Hughes rubber match. I truly feel Bj was a better fighter who suffered an insurmountable injury in the rematch. Think about that though; Hughes is easily the second best welterweight of all time, and you can make the case that Bj was better than him at that weight. The only reason people feel he can’t compete at welterweight is because he ran in to GSP.
BJ can compete at WW, he could just never be champ again as long as GSP is there. Other than Rush though I think he’d have real problems against Fitch and Alves, anyone else in the division I’d say BJ has at least a 50/50 shot against.
by ufc4 on Nov 30, 2009 6:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think Fitch would probably be able to out muscle him, (assuming he could take him down, which I’m not certain he could) but I’d put Bj as the favorite over Alves. Of course both of these fights would be tough for Bj with me so firmly attached to his nuts.
Fitch would out muscle him but the biggest guy in the division wouldn’t?
by ufc4 on Nov 30, 2009 6:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
BJ lost to, but also beat an in his prime Hughes.
He lost to GSPs dominant wrestling but i think even against Fitch or Alves he’d have a good shot.
He has a 50/50 shot against Fitch and Alves, and would be a significant favorite against any other WW who isn’t named GSP. When BJ acts the way he acts right now, it’s hard not to love him. Hard training, having fun, focused on himself and not other crap etc.
by Dooda on Nov 30, 2009 6:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He's definitely one of my favorite fighters
And when he puts in the hours like he should, there’s no question he’s one of the best P4P of all time.
I actually admire his Quixotic nature, even when it bites him in the ass. No matter what people criticize him for, NO ONE can ever say he has avoided challenges.
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Nov 30, 2009 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
BJ got injured because he couldn’t handle fighting a guy as powerful as Hughes. Hughes wasn’t given the win, he took it and smashed Penn’s face in. There are no arguments that Penn is better than Hughes. They are 1-1, and Hughes has far more impressive WW credentials.
Dude, a broken rib is a freak injury
It’s not like Matt made any attempt to break his rib.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
B.J. is one of the best fighters of all time regardless of his win/loss record. He could lose his next 10 fights and he would still be one of the most talented fighters that has ever competed in MMA.
"Frank Mir had a horseshoe up his ass. I told him a year ago. I pulled it out of him and I beat him over the head with it." Brock Lesnar
and it is?
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by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 30, 2009 9:34 PM EST up reply actions
Why hasn’t BJ come out with all the training vids like last time? Not that I liked them they were only like 10-20 secs long anyway but I hope he’s still remained in shape. I’ve already said this but I’ll say it again. Diego is a warrior but I cant see him winning it. I sure as hell am rooting for him though! YESS! YESSS! FUCK YESSSS!!!!!!
Mauricio Shogun Rua #1 LHW in the World. The TRUE Champion.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
Nope, not really.
Mauricio Shogun Rua #1 LHW in the World. The TRUE Champion.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Nov 30, 2009 11:27 PM EST up reply actions
I think because people had doubts about him in his last fight.
He had been lazy and his cardio was ass at WW. At LW we know he’ll wreck all comers.
BJ Penn = G.O.A.T. of the LW division (to date at least)
In my book, his defeat of Hughes (in his prime) is his greatest accomplishment to date. Because Hughes was held in such a high regard, like Fedor or Anderson Silva now, that when Penn beat him, it was almost like when Serra beat GSP (maybe not that bad) in terms of shock value.
But because it wasn't a freak accident, it actually has value.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
BJ can fight and be a real contender at 170 lbs, but he’d need to bulk up properly and be in shape. 155 is his ideal weight, but saying he “can’t be successful” at 170 is a joke. He would have trouble with Alves, Fitch, and Koscheck, but those are all really solid fights, although I fear for BJ’s safety against Alves 0_0. I think he would be outstruck badly and destroyed by leg kicks.
I think Alves is just too large for Penn.
GSP and Alves are the only guys in that division that are so large, and while GSP is a better fighter and ground technician than Thiago, I don’t think BJ could get past the 30lb muscle difference.
BJ could KO him, sure, but I’d expect the aforementioned leg kicks to do serious damage and slow him down both on the feet and on the ground.
A three round fight, BJ has a better chance. A five rounder, if Alves can last that long, and I think BJ gets longer odds.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Nov 30, 2009 11:10 PM EST up reply actions
Thomas Gerbasi is the best writer working in MMA, with the possible exception of Josh Gross.
by JonathanSnowden on Nov 30, 2009 9:04 PM EST reply actions
I should have mentioned it
but the one beef I have with Gerbasi’s article is leaving the Gomi fight off. To me that was a bigger defining moment in the career than the somewhat predictable revenge fight against Pulver.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 30, 2009 9:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i respectfully disagree about josh gross
by cagefightonacid on Nov 30, 2009 9:45 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Josh Gross’s fighter profiles are great.
by JonathanSnowden on Nov 30, 2009 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
Semi related: has Diego always been this crazy or has he just turned it up tp 11 recently?
Keep firing Assholes!
In Idaho, it's illegal to f--- a porcupine. You know why? Because someone tried it.
always
But his general demeanor has kind of calmed down… he’s way more soft spoken now, seems gentler and smiles a lot more. (what I’ve noticed from recent interviews)
Which makes him seem even crazier to me. Cause we know that dude is still nuts from his octagon entrances and the look on his face when he fights. Not to mention some of the crazy stuff he still says.
haha
and Koscheck on the right, Cro Cop in the middle.
by dancingChicken on Dec 1, 2009 4:54 AM EST up reply actions
The most defining moment of BJ' career...
Is when he got the kiss of death from Mickey Avalon!!!!
for all intents and purposes, just consider all my posts as works of satire.
I gotta say, as much as I dislike BJ’s personality, I gotta give props to his talent. The guy knows how to hype up a fight, he’s fun to watch in the cage, and his talent is amazing. Now that he’s started to improve his work ethics and train hard, he is nearly unstoppable at LW. BJ’s biggest enemy is himself. As soon as he starts losing interest in the LW division, it’ll be a trainwreck. He (still) hasn’t stopped talking about fighting GSP again, so I’m afraid he’ll do something silly and lose focus on what he’s amazing at, which is ruling the LW division.
I love me some Sexyama!

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