Educating the Uneducated With a Limited Fight Library
by SamCupitt on Nov 3, 2009 4:26 AM EST
34 comments
Tonight, I sat down to watch some select fights from PRIDE: Bushido 13. After moving out earlier this year and away from my brothers extensive MMA DVD library (UFCs 1-104 and every PRIDE barring "The Best Ofs" and Shockwave 2002) I have left the majority of my MMA video viewing to the Internet.
I had recently been lent Bushido 13 by my brother so that I could see some fights I had not seen such as the welterweight grand prix finals, Gomi vs. Aurelio 2, and Mousasi vs. Lombard.
Once I put the DVD in, my roommate came out to see what I was watching. Although he had a small knowledge of jiu-jitsu due to my routine drunken displays he was still very much an MMA-neophyte and had absolutely no idea what was going on.
As I was aware of all the fight results, I decided to try and do my best to educate him using the fights.
Quickly my thoughts turned to how best approach the situation.
I had one card, which featured eleven fights.
Do I show him the semi-finals and then the final of the tournament so he can connect with a fighter (aka the YAMMA Pit Fighting method)?
Do I attempt to find a stand-up war to lure him in? Or perhaps the opposite and show him some Aoki?
I decided to just skip to the final and put on Denis Kang vs. Kazuo Misaki and try and walk him through the fight and point out positions and try and let him know what each fighter was trying to do
After some wild exchanges to begin the fight, Kang scored a takedown and landed in MIsaki's soon to be closed guard. Misaki controlled Kang's head while Kang through some very tight hammerfists.
"Can you explain this homosexual activity?" My roommate asks.
It's cool, I think. This is how I started out, gay jokes. Then something cool happens and you start getting interested.
Kang stands up in Misaki's guard and tries to throw down some hard punches. He falls back into a Misaki triangle and postures up to avoid danger. Misaki clumsily works to lock it in while Kang lifts him up and slams him down.
"Woah." says, roommate.
That's better, I think.
Kang moves to side control and shortly after the fight returns to the feet. Some wild striking and some takedowns follow that receive no reaction. The round ends. The second round picks up where the first leaves off and in the last minute of the round, Kang and Misaki start trading heavily which peaks my roommates interest a little.
However, the fight ends and my roommate looks pretty non-plussed about the whole thing.
I need a new attack. I think back to how people got interested in the first place. The smaller man, defeating the larger man with technique. Gracie vs. Shamrock, Gracie vs. Severn, that kind of thing. But alas, all I have is the Japanese equivalent. I select Ikuhisa Minowa vs. Mike Plotcheck.
For those who have not seen the fight, I envy you. The purpose of this fight was to illustrate technique over size as I expected a quick Minowaman leg lock victory, what I got though was an example of energy over incompetence.
Plotcheck looked to fight in slow motion while Minowaman scored takedowns and got battered looking for submission attempts. My roommate was amused by a kick/takedown attempt from Minowa but was ultimately left disturbed and disillusioned when round two opened up with an over muscled, gassed man with his hands down staring at a man in black underpants with a battered face for the majority of the five minutes with only some of the slowest strikes and counters you've ever seen seperating the lack of action.
Needless to say this was the last fight I showed, before I slinked off to my room.
My little experiment takes me back to the questions I have surrounding promotions outside of ZUFFA and the task they have in promoting ex-UFC and PRIDE fighters they have without access to their highlight clips. Hypothetically speaking, if Strikeforce actually signed Dan Henderson how could they warrant the money they'd spend on him compared to how much he'd bring in when they have absolutely no footage of him to advertise.
You can tell everyone Fedor Emelianenko is the best heavyweight on the planet but if you can only show him beating up and choking out a tall and goofy looking Tim Sylvia (who also has no footage available that could make him seen important) then you end up just relying on words to get people interested.
I can try and explain to my roommate that MMA is extremely technical and exciting, that MMA was founded on technique overcoming strength and that jiu-jitsu isn't you know...gay but if all I have to fall back on is my word and the lacklustre fights of PRIDE: Bushido 13, I'm always going to end up slinking off to my room.
In closing I'd just like to ask a few questions:
- Is there a science to educating newer fans?
- Do fighters like Dan Henderson and Fedor Emelianenko have an appropriate level of value to an organization like Strikeforce considering they have no footage that is available to advertise?
- What would you have done differently in my situation re: roomate?
- If you had a single card to show a newby, what would it be?
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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A few things I do to introduce people to fights is try to show them fights they will find entertaining. If your friend thinks grappling is “homosexual activity” show him a stand up war, I suggest WAND vs. Liddell.
I’m in the U.S. Army so I work with and am around many different nationalities so, for example, one of my soldiers is Korean, so I showed him Akiyama, “Stun Gun”, “Parky” and HMC (to be funny) fights.
Also say I have a soldier that used to participate in a certain martial art, for some reason alot of my friends either did Karate or Wrestlng as a sport. Try to find similarities between you friends and the fighters to get them interested.
Occupations may also work, I’m a soldier, so if I point out that Stann used to be a USMC Officer someone might like that. There is also “J-Lau” who used to be an IT or Jens Pulver who is a hardcore gamer.
Just a few suggestions, good luck.
by CSKit on Nov 3, 2009 5:53 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Limited fight library shouldn’t matter, google is your friend.
by CSKit on Nov 3, 2009 5:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Army also has the All Army Combatives Tournament which I’m guessing is a great way to introduce some of your soldiers into the sport, as well as link them to some of the past competitors. Both Darrlill Schoonever and Tim Kennedy are tourney winners. It’s unfortunately it wasn’t there when I was in.
by nottheface on Nov 3, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nah, Army Combatives is a very BAD way to introduce people to MMA. I’m a Level 3 Combatives Instructor, class 03-04, Only the semi’s and finals are MMA. Until you get out of Company, Battalion and Regiment level it’s all just grappling in ACU’s, the Army Combat Uniform.
Unless you take BJJ classes MACU is very limited we only teach 4 Breaks, 4 Chokes, 4 Passes, 4 Sweeps and 4 TD’s, and that’s at Level 2 and it’s very hard to keep people interested passed Level 1.
by CSKit on Nov 3, 2009 6:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Really, I heard good things about it. That it was an improvement over the old basic hand to hand training. I thought it was more along the lines of Krav Magav, which I took for a little bit back in 99 and 2000. I heard it has become very McDojo but I’ll say from my experience you learn a lot (basic stuff of course) very quickly.
by nottheface on Nov 3, 2009 7:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
MACP is just basic level BJJ until Level 3, where it is broken down into four weeks. Week one is Boxing in the mornings and Kali in the afternoons, week two is Kicboxing am, Kali pm, week three is Sanshou am, kali pm, week four is pancration am, kali pm. Every Friday you have three amateur fights in whatever discipline you studied that week, and graduation is a three minute MMA match am, and kali stick-fight pm.
by CSKit on Nov 3, 2009 9:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A side note, the instructors while I was at Level 3 school in 2003 where:
SGT James Damien Stelly (10-3) he hadn’t gone pro yet and was 3-0 as an amatuer.
CIV Steve Van Fleet (2-3) he’s the only coach I had to fight and had crazy reach.
CIV Kevin Jordan (11-8) didn’t talk at all.
CIV John “The Saint” Renken (19-28-3) Kickboxing coach…
Another thing to mention I had to fight current MMA fighter Len Bentley(8-3), he was a SPC at the time, for honor graduate, he beat me.
by CSKit on Nov 3, 2009 9:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The problem is rarely trying to get someone interested in standup, most guys enjoy it as long as it is action filled.
The problem is the ground game, most guys I know say I like when they are standup fighting but it is boring/ gay when the fight hits the ground.
The ground needs to be explained and understood although i can’t think of any fights off of the top of my head you should go through and show him fights that have ended with all the different submissions So he knows what can be done where. Yes the guard is slightly gay looking. But the reason is to control the lower body and allow for arm bars, triangles guillotines and sweeps. Fights that end like this should be demonstrated. Same with all the top submissions as well. Once they realise tactics and why a guy might lay on top without posturing up and raining down heavy leather he might understand the tactical battle.
by TheBeaves on Nov 3, 2009 7:41 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I remember the way I got into it was my brother showing me David Loiseau spinning back kick Charles McCarthy and then land a flying knee. That peaked my interest.
My brother then hired out some earlier UFCs starting from UFC 43 and I started to learn and appreciate the ground game by the fighters using it. When Tito fought Randy, I took an immediate dislike to Tito but thought Randy didn’t have much of a chance at 43. But the way he nullified Tito made he appreciate the wrestling and ground aspects and then it built from there.
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by SamCupitt on Nov 3, 2009 7:49 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think that it may be difficult to get someone interested in MMA just using fights to catch their interest. As a rule of thumb I would say that the more you know about something, the more interested you get. THe trouble is how to make them aquire the knowledge-base “for free”. Here`s what I would do:
1) Choose a season of TUF and get him to follow it as a reality show. That way he`ll get the MMA-part as a bonus and will probably be knowledgable to be able to appreciate a “good” MMA-fight.
2) At all costs, AVOID ground`n`pound based fights. It`s gross! I appreciate that it`s neccesary for the sport and all, but most casual fans think its barbaric.
3) I would avoid the slug-fests a la Chris Lytle and show fights with sudden and unexpected KO`s or submissions. They show you that even when its “boring”, something might happen in a heartbeat. I give you Franklin vs Quarry or Thiago vs Koscheck as examples of KO`s and just about any fight with Maia as submission-examples. In fact, I think it might be a good idea to first show Maia`s submissions (to build him up as a superman) and then show the Marquart vs Maia -fight…
4) If you want to show a “grappler-fight”, I would use one with a lot of sweeps, since they are a bit easier to spot than a kimura-attempt or a failed arm-triangle.
"Marcus Davis is a plastic paddy"-Dan Hardy
by BlueberryMuffin on Nov 3, 2009 4:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
“the smashing machine” documentary with mark kerr is a pretty good way to get men and women alike to sit down and watch some mma-related stuff for an hour and get pretty into it.
but then you gotta figure out your game plan from there.
ultimately there is no substitute for an incredible LIVE fight. old fights can be interesting and cool, but live action is suspenseful and dramatic, because nobody knows what’s going to happen. i remember my old roommates were around when i was watching GSP vs Hughes 2 live. They were like “he’s incredible, i love this guy!!!” it was random and unplanned, and it’s spontaneous moments like that which you can’t really manufacture.
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by GregS123 on Nov 3, 2009 10:30 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
UFC 100
had a little bit of everything in my opinion.
by IpullguardIRL on Nov 3, 2009 10:48 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think the trick is show them something exciting, but nothing that requires too much explanation. That’s why Griffin/Bonnar did so well – because everyone understands the martial art of face-punch-fu. That’s why Diaz/Sanchez is what hooked me – extremely fast & intense, but not at all sloppy. I would skip the Japanese freak-shows for now, so he doesn’t confuse that for good MMA (though Frye/Takayama is a must)
TUF 6 Finale is single card is the most enjoyable one I’ve seen. Two all-out wars (War Machine/Rollins, Guida/Huerta), and a quick skill>size submission (Danzig/Speer). Nothing too complicated, but extremely fun.
After that, Pride Final Conflict 2005. Shogun’s run through the MW tourney and Fedor/CC? Damn straight.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Nov 3, 2009 11:35 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Was thinking the same thing about Final Conflict 2005
I also turned my roommate into a fan last year with pretty much just Cro Cop fights. Looking back, if I realized I was trying to make him into an MMA fan, I would’ve shown some Demian Maia subs as well as Penn/Stevenson to whet his appetite for ultraviolence
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Robert Downey Sr. on Nov 3, 2009 3:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have a compilation I like to use with uneducated fans.
1) Bonnar/Griffin – Two recognizable current fighters in a dramatic environment.
2) Silva/Franklin – A more technical approach to the striking game than Bonnar/Griffin while still being interesting.
3) Newton/Sakuraba – A really enjoyable fight that is 99.9% ground work.
4) Maia/McDonald – A more modern ground fight.
5) Frye/Takayama – Anything can happen…look at this shit!
I’d also say that Barry/Hardonk would be a nice intro fight. Or something like Chuck/Wand or Nog/Couture.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 3, 2009 11:54 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
that mia macdonald figth was awesome.
by Riley_96 on Nov 3, 2009 12:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good list. I would also add for pure WTF moments:
1) Fedor/Randleman – Perfect for introducing someone: it’s short; has tension (is he dead?); and a surprise ending no one can see coming.
2) Wanderlie/Rampage (GP Final) – unbelievable brutal which is what a lot of newcomers want in mma.
3) Hughes/Trigg 2 – maybe the greatest comeback ever.
4) Rampage/Arona – one of the greatest, albeit potential illegal, finishes of all time. And a good fight too.
I would say Scott Smith/Pete Sell for the finale, but the fight itself wasn’t special.
by nottheface on Nov 3, 2009 2:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fedor/Randleman is indeed a great one for that, both for the huge oh-my-god suplex and the subsequent reversal and submission. Shows the importance and effectiveness of technical groundwork, plus a dude gets dropped right on his goddamn head.
by JRN on Nov 3, 2009 2:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I was watching Nog/Couture live with a buddy when his cousin came over and he was mesmerized by that fight. Now he wants me to hold pads for him and show him how to fight from the clinch lol.
by Big4Nuthin' on Nov 3, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nog/Couture is the best combination of stand up and ground work to show a newbie;
I like bonnar/griffin
Silva / griffin ( to show how damn good some guys get at striking)
Nog / Couture
Maia / j mac
brock / MIR I/II is good to show them someone they might know and the improvement.
by Beren on Nov 3, 2009 6:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the fight that got me fully hooked was Timmah and Randy. I watched the opening credits and seen this 45 year old man looking to take down a 6’7 monster. It was the freakshow part of it that got me just the fact someone of randys age with the heart to go out and maul someone that big and thatmuch younger. I remember goldie and rogan talkking about Randy getting badly hurt then that first 8 seconds changed every ones mind
by Riley_96 on Nov 3, 2009 12:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
That's the one that got me too
It’s probably a good fight to show any person new to MMA. Mixes standup with the ground game and has a little freak show element. Plus the crowd is fantastic and really takes the fight to another level.
by ricker2005 on Nov 3, 2009 4:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
oh yeah Guida/Griffin one of my all time fave fights it was crazy
by Riley_96 on Nov 3, 2009 12:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I’ve gotten about 5 friends hooked on MMA, very recently too, by showing them the dream lightweight tourney. Alvarez/Hansen and Alvarez/Kawajiri, ’nuff said.
by Big4Nuthin' on Nov 3, 2009 2:36 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
If the person has patience, Uno/Hansen could be a good one. Very back and forth, standup and ground work, crazy at-the-buzzer KO ending.
But really, if a person is predisposed to thinking that grappling looks gay and therefore is gay, I don’t know what to do with that. I never went through that phase myself.
by JRN on Nov 3, 2009 2:39 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Also
Sakurai/ Hansen is fantastic. Very high paced grappling and striking exchanges.
Supporting all Las Vegas MMA. Xtreme Couture FTMFW.
'09 is the year of the FW's.
by ElliotMatheny on Nov 3, 2009 5:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dan is already a name fighter because of PRIDE and UFC, so he’d be easier to market to the casuals than Fedor.. Especially since Dan isn’t gonna be the face of strikeforce, and they’re hinging everything on Fedor.
by Anton Tabuena on Nov 3, 2009 3:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Nog vs. Bob Sapp was one of the fights that made me appreciate the ground game as a newbie.
by polevaultking on Nov 3, 2009 6:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
New to BE comments
so bare with me guys. The way i got into MMA, was one of my friends showed me Pride Knockouts, Vol. 1 I believe, which highlighted Fedor, Igor, Silva, Chuck and Jackson. First coming into this casuals want to see KO’s, and that was perfect. Immediately I was hooked! I started YouTubing a lot and it was hilarious laughing at Bob Sapp’s technique. Eventually I came to appreciate the ground game, and now, I love it. Most of the time, I find it more exciting than some stand-up wars. Though I still can’t get enough Frye Vs. Takayama rofl
by fedorade on Nov 3, 2009 8:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
By the way, is it just me experiencing problems with the site, or is shit fucked for everyone?
This shirt is "dry clean only", which means it's dirty.
by SamCupitt on Nov 3, 2009 8:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Marcus Davis vs Paul Taylor
It’s the fight I always use to show newbies. It’s perfect, starts off with a great stand up section showing a classic boxer vs kickboxer, it has a head kick knockdown and recovery, which shows why we let the fights continue on the ground, then showcases a strong grappling portion with a SLICK armbar finish.
Whole fight takes place within 4:14, so nothing drawn out for them to lose interest.
by Shaun32887 on Nov 3, 2009 11:17 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
wow, i think you're right..
it seems like a really good fight to show to first timers..
by Anton Tabuena on Nov 4, 2009 1:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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