The Bottom Line Shouldn’t Come Before a Fighter’s Safety
by E. Spencer Kyte on Nov 28, 2009 12:04 PM EST
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While Junie Browning's brief trip to the hospital at the start of October gained a reasonable amount of coverage, his return to the cage tonight in Belterra, Indiana for the MMA Big Show: Onslaught main event mostly stayed under the radar.
Inspired by BE's own Brent Brookhouse's attempted interviews with Big Show big wig Jason Arnold, Heavy.com offers their thoughts on the prospect of putting Browning back in the cage so soon and wonders if others would be doing the same if this was taking place under the bright lights of the UFC.
If Dana White had put Quinton "Rampage" Jackson back into the main event of a UFC card less than two months removed from his dangerous vehicular voyage after losing to Forrest Griffin, the uproar and outrage would have been deafening.
Ultimately, everyone is trying to gain as much exposure and bring in as much revenue as possible. But when does the health and well-being of the fighter supersede the need to turn a profit?
Less than two months ago, Junie Browning looked like a troubled kid on the edge of a serious breakdown. Now he's returning to the ring?
Some people think the decision is dangerous, while others will surely say, "Let him fight!"
What do you say?
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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The responsibility to decide if a fighter is competent to compete should fall squarely with the Commission who grants him/her a license. Promoters can and do contract around troubled combatants, and can pursue as much or as little protection from the ramifications of criminal and destructive behavior. In short, they assume the risk, and I shed no tears.
Furthermore, professional fighters often have support networks, like training partners, coaches, managers, and agents who can help them determine whether specific fights at specific times are good for their careers. That being said, the decision to take a fight is often based on a degree of economic necessity, and we shouldn’t be so cavalier about fighters being deprived of their livelihoods until they have their due process.
To me this isn’t about saying he shouldn’t be afforded the opportunity to make a living or have his due process for the transgressions he’s had; this is about a fighter his own trainer said was trying to take his life and harm himself now being of sound mind and body to compete.
My personal opinion is that the two do not equate; you don’t go from wanting to harm yourself and an inability to deal with the pressures of your life to being “better” and ready to once again go under that microscope, albeit on a much smaller scale, in 60 days.
Still An Arrogant Blowhard!
by E. Spencer Kyte on Nov 28, 2009 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
not to mention...
ready to be booked 5 days later
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by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 28, 2009 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
Again...
the Junie fight will be taking place a few days before the state has sanctioned mma competition. So….that’s not really the case here
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by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 28, 2009 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
D...dangerous?
One of America’s biggest fallacies is its public’s perception being guided by some radical voices…This is another of those cases. Circumstances behind Junie’s actions are not known and have never, to anyone’s knowledge, carried over into the cage or even into training. Yet the public sees this “punk kid” and SWEARS he is a danger to someone in that situation. If he is, then that’s a testament to his ability. But to assume he’s gonna go psycho and kick someone in the groin before initiating some GnP that a referee nearby cannot stop is far fetched at best. Yet here we are amongst a public grasping for straws, looking for any excuse to keep a “guy we don’t like” from tainting our beloved sport.
Meanwhile an entire legion of his friends who know him personally vouch for his character, referring to him as misguided and having a good heart and good intentions. I’ll be the first to say that good intentions led to the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki…but did that stop us from having a larger stockpile of nukes than the balance of the world?
I know my opinion isn’t popular, or at least my justifcations for saying such a thing aren’t. But I’m sure I’m not alone in my views about giving a fellow human a chance. Stacking the deck against him isn’t going to make him any less of a danger to anyone. Even if he’s blown several chances, the attempts to improve himself are evident and those are the things that we focus on to assist with improvement. God knows where you’d be today if YOU were judged by your worst actions. Even if you don’t think you’re on a level plane with Junie, you can’t seriously place yourself above him. Then again…this blog does mostly consist of Americans. Myself included.
http://www.mmarecap.com
By no means did I think he was going to go bonkers in the cage during the fight, but I thoroughly expected his antics post-fight:
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/11/29/1177604/junie-browning-wins-fight-offends
It’s not about placing myself above anyone; it’s about being genuinely concerned for the well-being of a kid who has very recently shown to have troubles… and his actions last night validate those concerns.
He is devoid of professionalism from the look of things and when you couple that with the depressive state he was obvioulsy in on October 6, sending him back to work – regardless of what he does for a living – doesn’t make sense to me.
Get the kid help and support him that … this isn’t about my worst actions of nuclear weapons or what nationality people are… this is about wanting to see a kid who has some obvious issues get help with them before they become too big to battle.
Still An Arrogant Blowhard!
by E. Spencer Kyte on Nov 29, 2009 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
You kinda answered my question from below here.
I agree the kid needs help. Whether he is training or fighting or whatever, if he is depressed and suicidal he could clearly use some professional help.
But training for a fight could actually help him. It gives him a goal and helps him focus on something. Who knows. Maybe without this fight for him to look forward to, he may have already been dead after downing more pills.
His trainers, manager, family and friends are in the best position to make decisions, advise and influence Junie. IMO, Its not up to the public or promoters to make these decisions for him.
Considering the last thread on this topic, I’m staying out of this one.
The path to my fixed purpose is laid with iron rails, whereon my soul is grooved to run. Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering BROCKLESNAR; to the last I grapple with thee.
by judonerd on Nov 28, 2009 4:12 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Im glad the majority of people chose “Who are we to say?”. Clearly this build up is not ideal for Junie but what impact it has and how significant it might be is unknown. And the reference to Rampage is a bit odd. It was about 5 months between Rampages rampage and claims he thought he was god and police initiated psychiatric evaluations. 2 months is too short?? 5 months is ok??? Who are we to say. Each situation is unique and I question the athletic commissions ability to provide a meaningful psychiatric assessment of these guys. I mean, seriously, from what I saw of Junie, he could have failed a psych assessment back before he ever set foot in the TUF ring.
Junie’s friends, family, trainers and managers……..they are the ones that are in the box seat to stop this fight if it should be stopped. Its not up to us and its not up to the promoter.
It’s not that 5 months is an adequate length of time; it’s more that Rampage was given all the time he felt he needed and the UFC surely did their own evalutaion of things prior to making the decision to proceed with booking Rampage.
Junie was booked 5 days after he downed a bottle of pills in an attempt to harm himself. There is a big difference there to me…
Still An Arrogant Blowhard!
by E. Spencer Kyte on Nov 29, 2009 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
What is the exact risk that concerns you?
That Junie enters the cage unprepared and gets hurt?? That he goes nuts in the cage and hannibal lector’s his opponent? That he loses the fight and downs 2 bottles of pills through depression?
The first one is a possibility and the last one is the one that scares me the most.
This guy has admitted he doesn’t know how to handle to attention and pressures that came from being on TUF or everything that has come since the show. To me, that screams of someone who needs to spend some time figuring things out before heading in front of what was obviously a hostile crowd and playing the Junie role again…
Still An Arrogant Blowhard!
by E. Spencer Kyte on Nov 30, 2009 2:29 AM EST up reply actions
I just think its up to friends and family to step in if required. If you accuse the promoter of being immoral, where does it end? Plenty of movie stars and recording artists have been known to take drugs and become suicidal…….are we going to put the burden of responsibility on the record labels and movie producers to ensure the mental stability of singers, actors, sporting folk……..etc?? I sure hope not.
Promoters, record labels, producers and any other employer simply provides an opportunity. Its up to the individual and their friends, family and others close to them to decide what is a good opportunity and what isnt. If we start pointing the finger at the employer, we start heading down a slippery slope.
Junie Browning
Wins at MMA Big Show Onslaught in 3 Minutes and 13 seconds. What’s Junie Browning’s post fight celebration, he pulls down his pants and shows everybody on his ass and tells people to kiss it.
Real Classy and no. I am not kidding.
War Machine and Junie sound like a match made in heaven.
"Like a ballet of violence clothed in fine Brazilian silk." ~ MMASuPreMaCy
War Machine and Junie sound like a match made inheavenhell.
by ufc4 on Nov 29, 2009 12:09 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Junie was playing to the crowd. They were booing him, telling him to kiss their ass. Real classless act by some.
I spoke with him after the event and he said the boos do not bother him. He is just going to keep training and improving in order to get back where he wants to be.
He is not as crazy as most of you think.
www.mmagospel.com
www.blogtalkradio.com/MMAGospel
Any problems with Tim “Crazy” Credeur fighting professionally? I’m just asking ‘cause he’s a guy who hasn’t really hidden his own struggle’s, props to him, and yet he fights. What about the other fighters who haven’t told anyone about their own personal psychological struggles? Next, all fighters with assault charges? Now it’s a witch hunt. Junie hasn’t hidden his problem, nor the fact that he’s tried to deal with it. Maybe we all should mind our own business,
I am blinded by a sea of green.
Right. It’s cage fighting. It’s much harder to find a well adjusted fighter than to find a guy with screws loose.
by Jonathan Snowden on Nov 30, 2009 12:10 AM EST up reply actions
Granted it takes a different breed to be a professional cage fighter, but the kid downed a whack of pills in what his own trainer – someone who is close to the situation and knows the kid like his own son – called “an attempt to harm himself.”
If I attempted to harm myself, my employers wouldn’t let me back to work without a major pysch evaluation… nor would my support network be encouraging me to report just 5 days after the fact.
I’m not saying these guys are all model citizens or perfectly sane, but there is a difference between a little south of normal and eight weeks removed from trying to kill yourself.
Still An Arrogant Blowhard!
by E. Spencer Kyte on Nov 30, 2009 2:26 AM EST up reply actions
Do you think it would be normal for most people, eight weeks removed from an incident like that, to continue their lives? To go to work? Do you think Junie Browning, or most Americans, can afford not to work for months at a time until they can make you feel more comfortable?
by Jonathan Snowden on Nov 30, 2009 9:27 AM EST up reply actions
Continuing your life and going back to work in a position that you have admitted is a direct correlation to trying to kill yourself are two different things to me.
No one is saying he has to be a hermit who never leaves the house; go to the gym, train… I personally feel like it’s too soon to be back into the stressful situation and spotlight that sets him off.
And while it’s eight weeks removed from the incident that he fought, it was 5 days after he tried to kill himself that he was booked for this fight… something about that doesn’t mesh to me.
Still An Arrogant Blowhard!
by E. Spencer Kyte on Nov 30, 2009 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
What about people who have stressful careers? Doctors, lawyers, etc. Should they not be allowed to practice/work anymore just because of an incident where they may have attempted suicide? Sure, they should seek help, but they need to continue working while they do that. Unless they’re very wealthy, they’re going to have to. I’m pretty sure Junie has no trust fund of any sort.
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Nov 30, 2009 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
So if you were going in for major surgery and the staff told you, “Hey, did you know your doctor tried to kill himself a month and a half ago?” a whole bunch of alarms wouldn’t be going off in your head about making sure this dude is of sound mind and body to cut you open?
Just as you’re pretty sure he has no trust fund, I’m pretty sure he’s surrounded by enough people that have the financial capabilities to make sure he’s taken care of properly if he was to take an extend break from fighting to work on getting his life in order.
Still An Arrogant Blowhard!
by E. Spencer Kyte on Nov 30, 2009 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
Junie doesn’t have patients; He has opponents. His opponents are well aware of his issues since they’re so public. Trust me….you’ve been to plenty of doctors with serious issues and had no idea. No, I wouldn’t care if he had tried to kill himself a month and a half ago. I don’t know why that would affect my surgery at all. No, I highly doubt that Junie is surrounded by people that both have the financial capabilities and that care enough about him to help.
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Nov 30, 2009 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
I’m worried about him, not the people he’s fighting…
The kid tried to kill himself because he can’t handle the pressure and attention that came from being “Junie Browning, Alcohol-fueled Psycho” from TUF, so I don’t see putting himself in front of more people who want to stoke the fire as a good thing until he’s of sound mind…
Killing yourself – or trying to – isn’t a random decision and one that just comes and goes. There is a serious issue there. You may not care if your surgeon just tried to kill him/herself, but I would.
Ultimately, it’s just a difference of opinions…
Still An Arrogant Blowhard!
by E. Spencer Kyte on Nov 30, 2009 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
Your faith in the goodness of humanity is commendable. Skewed, but commendable. How many people with mental health issues have you gone out of your way to help, not including immediate family?
I am blinded by a sea of green.
What is skewed about it?
Still An Arrogant Blowhard!
by E. Spencer Kyte on Nov 30, 2009 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
Just because he beat a guy you’ll never hear of again, doesn’t mean the kid doesn’t still have problems…
Example A: his running off at the mouth after his win.
Still An Arrogant Blowhard!
by E. Spencer Kyte on Nov 30, 2009 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
No one said he doesn’t have problems. The discussion is whether its safe for him to fight or not. It appears it wasn’t safe for the other guy
And don’t hate on a guy for playing to a crowd
I’m not hating on him for playing to the crowd.
What worries me is that the guy who was playing to the crowd wasn’t completely playing. He’s said numerous times that he can’t handle the attention and doesn’t know how to deal with it, which is what manifested itself when they handed him the mic of Saturday night.
Part of it is a show, but part of it is a messed up kid who has shown he doesn’t know how to handle the pressure that comes with being Junie Browning from TUF…
It’s not that I think he going to go in the cage and do something stupid, more that he tried to end his life eight weeks ago and five days after that attempt he’s getting booked to fight?
Still An Arrogant Blowhard!
by E. Spencer Kyte on Nov 30, 2009 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
No – I’d rather him keep training while getting the help he needs.
Still An Arrogant Blowhard!
by E. Spencer Kyte on Nov 30, 2009 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
He said he was basically broke when he got cut by the UFC and now he has tons of legal bills. So keep spending money on training while he’s probably in major debt? That would make him go crazy. Getting his money right will help his mindset bigtime.
Besides this is about handling pressure right? Fighting in smaller shows with smaller crowds might be the best way for him to get over his fears so he can work towards actually having a career in fighting on the bigger stages
Maybe fighting on smaller shows will help… maybe it will produce more stellar performances like Saturday’s request for two lines.
Still An Arrogant Blowhard!
by E. Spencer Kyte on Nov 30, 2009 9:37 PM EST up reply actions
All of this concern about fighter safety and well-being
is a disguise for a concern of the well-being of MMA, in my opinion. No doubt, people like Junie and War Machine aren’t very good for the sport, and I think that’s your primary concern….that they might somehow damage the public perception of the sport you love so much. Honestly, do you really care at all about these fighters on a personal level beyond the damage you think they might cause to the sport?
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Nov 30, 2009 1:03 PM EST reply actions
You're Wrong
Yes, I actually do care on a personal level and not just for the well-being of the sport I love.
If I didn’t care about the people, why would I bother to address Junie Browning fighting in so nothing card in Indiana against a guy we’ve never heard of?
Honestly, the sport is growing and doing too well for Junie Browning to have any real impact on the overall perception. The sport is a success and every sport has more than a few bad apples like Junie and War Machine…
Some people might not give a crap about these guys other than the entertainment they can provide, but I do. I don’t want to see a kid get swept up in the attention and pressure to perform that he’s admitted he can’t handle and harm himself. MMA takes a back seat to a human being living…
Still An Arrogant Blowhard!
by E. Spencer Kyte on Nov 30, 2009 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
1:25 of this video is my response
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yp_XZSNuwgs
It’s ok if 1:50 is your response.
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Nov 30, 2009 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
Not Quite...
But close.
I just believe that there are things more important than bringing in the most money possible and running these guys out there for our entertainment. I know that might be hard for some to believe, but that is the honest truth.
I want to see great fights and even enjoy the completely jackass antics and mic sessions some of these guys deliver. But when War Machine is routinely talking about killing himself and Junie has already tried, all bets are off and people need to step in to get these troubled people some help…
Still An Arrogant Blowhard!
by E. Spencer Kyte on Nov 30, 2009 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
Although I feel like I’m in the minority most of the time, I actually feel for Junie. I take medication for depression and anxiety, so when I hear about the crap he’s tried or has done, I actually can almost understand what he’s going through. Not entirely, of course, but it’s not a gigantic stretch. And the one thing I have to say about a fight being booked so soon after his ‘attempt to harm himself’ is this: When I personally find myself facing an anxiety attack, or the depression starts to interfere with my daily life, I have to find a distraction. Something so absorbing that I can bypass the bad stuff and move on. I would think that training for an upcoming fight would be an admirable distraction, something to concentrate on completely to the exclusion of other things.
I’m no expert on any of this, of course. This is just my opinion. I have no idea if Junie’s support structure is falling down on the job or not. But, there are different ways to look at what’s going on, and keeping someone who attempts suicide busy and focused might be a good way to keep it from happening again. As I said, just my own non-expert opinion. It’s at least worth thinking about.
by Jackie Maden on Nov 30, 2009 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
I agree 100% that keeping him focused and doing something structured would be helpful. Training makes complete sense to me.
Getting out in front of a bunch of fans who are there to try and set you off and get under your skin? Not so much…
Still An Arrogant Blowhard!
by E. Spencer Kyte on Nov 30, 2009 7:08 PM EST up reply actions
You haven’t explained how he is supposed to make a living.
by Jonathan Snowden on Nov 30, 2009 9:10 PM EST up reply actions
Get a job like the rest of us.
Teach classes at TapouT, install tires like Brett Rogers did, haul and sort produce in a frozen-ass warehouse like I start doing tomorrow… do what you gotta do to put money in your pocket.
Yes, fighting is his primary means and the one things he would be considered “good” at, but he’s not good at handle the attention that comes from fighting, so maybe trying something else while working on that problem would be worth exploring.
Still An Arrogant Blowhard!
by E. Spencer Kyte on Nov 30, 2009 9:35 PM EST up reply actions
And I’m a writer, but until someone pays me enough to pay my bills, I have to do other things to get by, just like everyone else.
If people decide not to book Junie, he’ll have to do the same. Getting his head on straight and knocking off the BS on the mic after fights would go a long way to ensuring he still gets booked too…
Still An Arrogant Blowhard!
by E. Spencer Kyte on Nov 30, 2009 10:19 PM EST up reply actions
This is incoherent. People are willing to pay Junie to fight. You’re the one encouraging them not to, somehow using allegations and third hand gossip to attempt to deny someone their livelihood. The people who know him best are not calling for him to stop fighting. Why are you?
The Junie Browning character is getting booked. Saying he shouldn’t do outrageous interviews is missing the point of what makes Junie appealing.
by Jonathan Snowden on Nov 30, 2009 11:37 PM EST up reply actions
But Junie Browning isn’t a character – he’s a human being who eight weeks ago tried to harm himself.
Yes, there is an element of him that is a persona and an act that comes out in front of the crowd, but part of that is also what contributed to his wanting to harm himself.
And those aren’t allegations – his own trainer and close personal friend state as much.
I’m stating an opinion – when did that become unacceptable?
You disagree with it… super, but continually trying to tell me I’m wrong or missing the point isn’t going to change the fact that I wouldn’t be booking him and think that he needs to get help for whatever made him want to end his life.
And let’s be realistic here – nothing I say is going to prevent Junie Browning from getting work.
Still An Arrogant Blowhard!
by E. Spencer Kyte on Dec 1, 2009 12:10 AM EST up reply actions
When you are charged with a crime but not convicted, those are allegations. What a trainer, who was not there, says to someone else is third hand gossip.
The bottom line is that articles calling for change, especially those that are written on sites that people in the business read, carry with them a certain level of responsibility.
by Jonathan Snowden on Dec 1, 2009 12:49 AM EST up reply actions
My concern stems from his trying harm himself, and not the actions in the hospital.
Read the Fighter’s Only interview link in the piece – Tompkins was one of the people who brought him to the hospital, so his saying Browning was trying to harm himself is pretty damn reliable to me.
If you’re saying then that I am being irresponsible by voicing such an opinion, than this should maybe be a conversation we have elsewhere.
I’m not calling for change – I’m saying that if I were a promoter I wouldn’t book him and if I were a member of his inner circle, finding him a fight wouldn’t be my chief concern.
Still An Arrogant Blowhard!
by E. Spencer Kyte on Dec 1, 2009 1:04 AM EST up reply actions
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