Tito Ortiz 2.0
The idea that Ortiz can never compete with the upper tier or even mid tier of the UFC light heavyweight division is grossly overstated. It is clear that ring rust from inactivity as well as - quite literally - rebuilding physical capability imposes a tax on professional athletes. Too many fighters have been buried in the press as being incapable coming off of injury-ridden layoffs, only to persevere over time. Frank Mir and Shogun Rua, anyone?
The idea that because Nate Quarry made a return a to competitive fighting after undergoing similar surgery that therefore Ortiz should have no problem is poor abstract generalization. The problem with the Nate Quarry analogy is that his return to professional MMA saw him meet Pete Sell, who is unranked insofar as the top 25 middleweights are concerned. By contrast, Ortiz returned not to face a fighter with a skillset manageable enough to handle given the long layoff. He fought a top 5 fighter in Forrest Griffin who has consistently battled top competition as he improved his skillset. Ortiz would have had to fight Mike Nickels or Tim Boetsch for the analogy to be more appropriate.
Ortiz is actually in a similar position to where Kimbo Slice stood in EliteXC. That is, matchmaking became difficult because they had to find a name to fight him that could help sell tickets but that name couldn’t be talented enough to defeat the very green former street fighter. The UFC isn’t going to trot out Ken Shamrock for a fourth fight, so Ortiz is stuck in a position where the only names for him to fight are those at the top of the division who are threats to everyone else competing in the division, much less one who has been absent for the previous 18 months.
But this is, ostensibly, what Ortiz asked for. I will give him credit for playing EliteXC, Affliction and Strikeforce like violins over the course of 18 months to keep his name in the press and his visage in the public eye. However, by signing with the UFC – and by proclaiming loudly he wanted to be in the UFC so he could, in fact, fight the best – he assumes responsibility for meeting those challenges. One is never certain where Ortiz’s promotional shtick ends and his candid opinions begin, but in this case it’s irrelevant. Even if he took the UFC deal for substantive financial gain and to make use of their considerable promotional ability, the other end of the deal is the requirement he face exceptionally tough challengers. No debate, no dodging. Just performance.
The problem with Ortiz is not a lack of ability. He may never be champion again, but he is a capable fighter. His real problem is his semi-career/life slump which is being exacerbated by his defensive posturing from attacks about said performance. Consider the circumstances:
Think about this: In less than 40 days, it will be 2010. Ortiz has not won a match since 2006. That is a lot of history, over 1,100 days since Ortiz's hand was raised in victory. Since then, he's lost three times, had a draw, been frozen out of the UFC, had back surgery, had twins with his girlfriend Jenna Jameson, flirted with other organizations, rehabbed and returned.
That's a lot of life lived between wins, and a lot of age to overcome. He turns 35 in two months, and now admits he still has a bad back. In a division with sturdy, well-rounded veterans like Lyoto Machida, Mauricio "Shogun" Rua and Rashad Evans, surging youngsters like Jon Jones, Thiago Silva and Ryan Bader, the ageless legend Randy Couture and even an occasional appearance from Anderson Silva, this is not a weight class with any gimmes. And it is not a weight class with an easy roads towards the top.
So when Ortiz whines his face is broken, that other fighters could only hope to do what he did off of back surgery or that - via Hail Mary logic - the judges robbed him of his rightful win, he only worsens the impression that he's a fighter on the skids who can't compete with the rest of the division.
What this event demonstrates is that Ortiz accrued huge sums of positive equity with fans and insiders in the early to middle stages of his career, yet has spent quite a bit of it to cover for mediocre or ill-fated performances. Some of his misfortune is inopportune timing or career squabbling not entirely of his doing. But some of his problems are self-generated and worse, self-perpetuated. Ortiz is still a serious media figure, but must admit his career has finally taken a hit.
The good news for Ortiz is that he has not reached his credit limit just yet. The other takeaway from this fight is that a win - a dominating, clear victory - for Ortiz would do wonders for his career. The energy and enthusiasm for Ortiz is there, but it's slowly over the last few years ossified into fan apathy or disdain for disappointing performances. Yet, Ortiz is still the center of attention. He cannot recapture lost glory, no. But future resurgence is not out of the realm of possibility either. He's got the raw material to build himself back into not what he was, but to something new and compelling.
His cries of robbery are obvious nonsense, but they do retain some measure of utility. There's opportunity cost as the protests from Ortiz look unprofessional and desperate, but desperation isn't unhelpful in promoting fighters in combat sports. If Ortiz can generate enough interest in his future fights by claiming injustice against Griffin, he can continue to rebuild and hone his skills in the interim. If the UFC can provide more manageable opposition in future opposition, Ortiz can work towards a legitimate challenge .
Need proof? Look no further than Shogun Rua. After a disappointing performance against Forrest Griffin, Shogun was given an easier contest in Mark Coleman (yes, Coleman is still dangerous, but let's not point to that fight as evidence) only to get a subsequent fight against a diminished, if more capable Liddell. This allowed Shogun to buy time in his recovery such that at the moment he arrived at the Machida fight, he was actually ready to take on serious challenges. Point blank, Ortiz has not been afforded the same opportunity.
It's no guarantee Ortiz returns to any semblance of an old form. Any future success hinges on changes he's willing to make and performances he has to turn in. But the door is still open. There is still a window of time to be relevant. Not the relevancy of before, but something new. The choice to take advantage of that opportunity belongs only to Mr. Ortiz.
Your move, Tito.
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Great Article
I have seen plenty of people saying he’s done for, including people on this site. I think he can become a borderline top 10 fighter if given the right opponents… his conditioning was THAT bad considering his surgery IMO.
i thik thats why everyone was so disappointed, sure
he looked good in the second round, when he gets back into shape, he should be a real monster again.
just wish he’d stfu
The path to my fixed purpose is laid with iron rails, whereon my soul is grooved to run. Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering BROCKLESNAR; to the last I grapple with thee.
I agree judo – Tito just needs to be quiet and let his work in the octagon speak for him
Yes, time flies. And where did it leave you? Old too soon...smart too late. - Mike Tyson
by lovingmma25 on Nov 23, 2009 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t know that he is done for personally, I think he can still be competitive.
But the comment “He can become a borderline top 10 fighter given the right opponents” is what is so wrong with the ranking idea in MMA.
The amount of wins you get should be irrelevant when it comes against weak opponents as far as rankings go. It might be good for publicity or appearances sake, but just getting wins against anybody should not be enough to keep someone in the top ten if they wouldn’t be there fighting other top ten fighters.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
by JeremyShane on Nov 23, 2009 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, that jumped out to me too. Top 10 in my mind indicates that you’re in the top ten of the weight class. Barring simple poor stylistic matchups you should be able, in theory, to beat those ranked 11 and below. It’s shouldn’t take careful scheduling to make a man top 10.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 23, 2009 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
Barnetts last 3 opponents were Cro Cop?
Where have I been?
I'm not saying that ranking should work like this, just that they do.
Example: If Tito rematched Evans next year and won, would he not leapfrog Rashad in the rankings, however close or controversial he won? Even if he lost a close decision, I’m sure he would jump into the top 10.
Paulo Thiago passed Koscheck when he beat him. Shogun Rua improved his rank to #2 in the world with his close loss to Machida.
It just seems that beating a top 10 fighter these days automatically gets you one spot ahead of them for the time being.
I don’t think it was all that bad that he gassed in the 3rd round, I mean it has been over a year since he fought
Yes, time flies. And where did it leave you? Old too soon...smart too late. - Mike Tyson
by lovingmma25 on Nov 23, 2009 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
Bonnar would be a great fight.
A name fighter who poses little threat on the feet, would have a hard time avoiding the double leg, AND doesn’t have an incredibly active guard game… perfect!
great fight FOR TITO, that is :)
If Coleman can do it, maybe Tito can.. If not, then he doesn’t deserve to fight the top guys anymore..
by Anton Tabuena on Nov 23, 2009 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
True, NOT a good fight for Bonnar
I don’t see many ways he could pull off a W after how I saw him dominated by Coleman’s old man strength on the ground. I would imagine Tito’s power is fairly comparable to Coleman’s, and I would see it ending in another UD loss for Bonnar.
One thing though… I don’t think we will see Tito ever finish an opponent for the rest of his career. The last person not named Ken Shamrock that Tito stopped was Elvis Sinosic in 2001 (A cut stoppage at that!) That is simply pathetic any way you slice it.
Yeah but doesn’t Bonnar deserve to win once in a while?
by kanodogg on Nov 23, 2009 10:51 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I don't want that fight,
But I think they will do it.. (unless they go for the Ortiz vs kimbo route)
or maybe they do both. Kimbo probably loses to Houston anyway. And that’s a fight that would generate millions.
by Anton Tabuena on Nov 23, 2009 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
I think the issue with your Shogun and Mir analogy is that Shogun and Mir showed prior to lay off and injuries that they had the tools and skills to be (and hang with) the current elite of their division. Tito hasn’t shown that in half a decade and was stymied or blown out EVERY time he faced top end talent (Liddell, Couture, Machida).
Tito’s a 1-D guy who’s bread and butter (the takedown + g’n’p from guard) is getting fossilized because he’s not fighting blown up 185ers, old legends or people with static guards that just lay there and absorb his punishment from guard. I can’t remember the last time I saw his vaunted “monster cardio” displayed, so while I’ll excuse his cardio re: ring rust on Saturday, I don’t know if he’ll ever be capable of hitting those upper levels again. Let’s not forget that his shoot is not half what it used to be and slowing down (especially in the later rounds – I’m sure with improved cardio it won’t see the massive fall off the cliff that it did this time). Let’s face it – at 35 he’s not going to drastically change his game and the game he has isn’t going to take him very far against the elite of the division.
"Tito hasn’t shown that in half a decade and was stymied or blown out EVERY time he faced top end talent (Liddell, Couture, Machida)."
Not true. He looked flawed, but perfectly capable against Evans. In general he isn’t top 5, but he has the ability to give top 10 guys a respectable challenge.
by Luke Thomas on Nov 23, 2009 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I totally blanked on the Evans fight and I agree on your assessment of it (though, I doubt it turns out too well for him this time as Evans has evolved quite a bit since then, but that’s not really the point of your article).
I agree on being able to hang with the lower end top ten guys, but even then I’m not sure that I see things ending too favourably for him against a good number of them. I’d like to see him get a guy like Jardine or Bonnar maybe…and like you say, give him a chance to go down the ladder a bit and work out some rust/kinks, etc. But I just keep going back in my mind to the issue of him not being willing (or able at this point) to reinvent himself and really shake up his game.
Having said that, another great article.
Tito can’t hang with the top ten LHWs, at least not striking. His striking has been below average in the division for 5 years. Tito’s talent hasn’t eroded, the game is passing him by. The difference between now and his last victory in the octagon is that takedown/gnp isn’t the dominant skill set it once was. Outside of heavyweights (whose 60 lbs weight range make it a throwback division where one dominate skill set can still be enough to win) tell me who is striking fear in their opponents with a 1-D gnp game? GSP uses it, sure, but his striking is top notch and more than sets up his takedowns. Okay, his takedowns are pretty impressive when not set-up. The point is with no striking game to fear Tito’s vaunted gnp game is like an NFL team with a great RB, but no passing game; with no striking to keep your opponent’s takedown defense honest makes stopping Tito’s one offensive weapon strategically simple. Execution still comes into play, but knowing what is coming makes executing for highly talented athletes much easier.
Every fighter says they are 200% healthy going into a fight, but really have injuries. Last fighter I heard talk about a pre-fight injury pre-fight was Frank Mir before the Nog fight and he later admitted it was counterintelligence, so I think nothing of Tito’s claims of full health not being fully true. What discourages me more is that Tito said in one interview that his boxing was better than ever. If that is true he’ll be fighting on the Legends Tour for the rest of his career.
That’s true, but I’d say that Rashad has improved dramatically since that fight at UFC 73 (2.5 years ago). Rashad at that time was not a Top 10 LHW. Rashad of the present day (and over the past year) is a Top 10 LHW.
Overall, I don’t disagree with your premise, that Tito could, perhaps give some of the Top 10 a challenge. I actually think he’d match up better with Thiago Silva than some of the others.
by Hardcharger on Nov 23, 2009 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
my outlook on the situation is that he’s always been somewhat one dimensional. he’s from the era where you could rely on one main strength (in this case his wrestling) to carry you through to a win. on saturday, he looked like the same old tito to me (albeit with slower hand speed, which i’ll chalk up to ring rust). i think it’s just a matter of the rest of the division progressing and passing him by, then him suddenly showing a big drop off in performance.
nah, I think Tito’s next stop is TUF.
Not sure who it will be against, but it will pull in some ratings, and I think he came off pretty well after his last stint on TUF. A weekly dose of Tito for a few months will build back some of the credit he wasted by whining after the fight.
Giving him Forrest right away would lead to a few months of whining, so I’m not sure that’s the best idea, but that will also give time for his discs and cracked skull to heal so he might be close to healthy for his next fight.
Doesn’t the fact that he went the full 3 rounds prove your point? That he can compete in the light heavyweight division? If he can excel and win still remains to be seen.
by Lendo on Nov 23, 2009 10:59 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Doesn’t the fact that he went the full3two rounds prove your point?
by The_Gaijin on Nov 23, 2009 11:00 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I give him credit for staying in there in the third round, granted anyone else fighting him would have seen that he was gassed and finished him but it was Forrest so…
Yes, time flies. And where did it leave you? Old too soon...smart too late. - Mike Tyson
by lovingmma25 on Nov 23, 2009 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
If he was in there with any other top 10 fighter than Griffin he’d have been finished in the third, Forrest just doesn’t have the power to finish anyone.
by ufc4 on Nov 23, 2009 1:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
In my opinion, Tito Ortiz is faultering and heading downward.
Maybe I’m jumping to conclusions here, but anyone who can stuff him and work a stand-up game against him is going to crush him with blows. His stand-up was god awful, despite training with Freddie Roach.
The only way he lingers in the top 10 is if he can truly outwrestle guys. That’s the only way. Which I suppose is possible if he works his conditioning level up.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
I think he needs more time with Freddie because it’s so natural for him to go back to his wrestling I don’t think he’s “programmed” enough to not do it
Yes, time flies. And where did it leave you? Old too soon...smart too late. - Mike Tyson
by lovingmma25 on Nov 23, 2009 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
Tito needs to stay programed to wrestle, his hands are terrible and getting slower each day. Unfortunately for Tito MMA’s cylce of rock-paper-scissors is now favoring striking as it favored ju-jitsu early and wrestling during the middle ages. Tito simply doesn’t have the skills to compete on the feet and as Chuck told us all a long time ago, Tito doesn’t like being hit in the face, he doesn’t handle it well.
Bad time in MMA to have slow hands.
yeah, you’re right about the slow hands I was really hoping his striking would be better but isn’t this the first time that he’s really focused on his striking?
Yes, time flies. And where did it leave you? Old too soon...smart too late. - Mike Tyson
by lovingmma25 on Nov 23, 2009 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
While I don’t care for this article, a rare miss by Luke so I am not complaining, I think there is tons of upside to walk away with for Tito. Does anyone doubt he looked awful? We know he was at one time very capable to do a lot of things better. The ring rust was clear. He was stiff and totally gased out. A man known for his conditioning, a man who has depended on it, can correct that problem. This isn’t the same as a great striker losing a step and getting beat to the punch on every single exchange. Some of his shots, before he gased, looked pretty good and he was getting inside from a mile away. His GnP in the first looked great, but he couldn’t sustain it.
And Tito’s excuses were sad. I watched the fight with Brett Jones of heavy.com and right after the end of the third round he said “Now Tito is coming up with an injury”. Tito bemoaning the crowd for its boo’s just shows at another level how clueless he is. He plays the heel and expects love? He, in the same breath, says Forrest was the better man on this night and that he couldn’t train due to a cracked skull. What he needs to get a grasp of is that saying he is 100%, in fact using that as his tag line in every interveiw and then saying he was very injured before the fight dramaticly reduces his ability to promote fights and that is where his value is. He is running a scorched earth policy on promoting fights. He is losing as much value as posible after losing a close fight.
I think since styles make match-ups, he has some potential to do some damage, but anyone with decent striking could put some leather on Tito’s chin continuously as long as they can stay off their back.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Nov 23, 2009 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
Slight off topic, but who was it that George S fought on the prelim card?
Because if Tito goes against a guy that throws bombs like that from his back, then Tito really only has a chance against another weak striking wrestler.
Aren’t the majority of 205ers good to great in wrestling or jiu jitsu and hit a lot harder and more accurate than him? I’m thinking Bonnar, Forrest, and Coleman are the only ones that don’t hit hard enough to finish him.
by black dragon on Nov 23, 2009 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
If I went and trained bjj with the Gracies for three months
would you expect me to hang with say, a J-Mac or someone along those lines? I agree it was awful standup, and his hands do seem to be slowing…but you can’t become Pacquaio in a few months. If he keeps training with Roach, and continues to show little to no improvement after a decent amount of time, I will bow down and admit you’re right. But I think he needs more time to show a marked improvement.
Welcome to the Machida Error.
by slapjaw ackrite on Nov 23, 2009 10:11 PM EST up reply actions
My main worry with Tito is that he was complaining about back problems before the fight even though he just came off back surgery aimed at getting him back to 100%.
and then went on to say he cracked his skull. I kinda knew thought that he had a cracked skull for a while now, given his speech problems.
cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.
I believed him too
He probably had a brain leek all this time, the cracked skull theory make sense.
10/24
only to get a subsequent fight against a diminished, if more capable Liddell
I can’t believe people have given up on Chuck like that. The guy is still dangerous and still top 10 IMO if he decides to come back to fight. Give Chuck Griffen, and you’ll see a KO for chuck.
cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.
And give him Jones, Rua, Evans, Thiago, Anderson, Machida, Lil’ Nog, Rampage and maybe even Vera if you want to see him go to sleep again.
Jones would get beat silly, so would Thiago, Vera, and Evans as long as chuck doesn’t fall for the same cat & mouse game Evans was playing with (chuck is not that smart but I don’t think he’d be that stupid either). Yep, still top 10 in my book. Losing to Page and Shogun should not be embarrassing, just like Forrest losing to Andy, they are just on other levels of the game. Jardine, I’ll give you a break there, but I don’t think he prepared himself well for that fight. The loss to Suga I already covered.
cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.
I don’t want to rag on Chuck because I think he was a damn good fighter, but he’s definitely been hurt by age. He was a guy whose speciality was stuffing wrestlers’ takedowns and killing them with his better standup. Now he’s slowed down somewhat, which is death with the former Pride guys and newer fighters who’s standup is better than the previous generation. He can still be dangerous to a wrestling first guys and those who can’t throw straight punches (Forest, Tito, Rich Franklin, Matt Hamill, Vladimir Matyushenko, Hendo, Wanderlei Silva, Coleman, and even Keith Jardine in a rematch are all top 25 UFC guys he would have a good shot at beating) but we can’t ignore the fact that he’s lost 4 out of his last five, and the only guy he beat has one win in his last six.
I see where you’re coming from, but if you look at who beat Chuck and who beat Wandy, all of the sudden that doesn’t really make you a bad fighter. I’m not even a chuck fan, I can’t believe I am defending him this much, but I just don’t think you can call a fighter done for (which is what most is doing, not you in particular) for having many losses, you have to look at who beat who. If chuck was losing to Kimbo, I would agree with you, but he’s not, he lost to top 10 guys (at the time they fought), and he has a great chance of beating two of those in a rematch (Jardine and Suga), and I think he has a great chance at beating Forrest too.
cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.
I think Chuck
Welcome to the Machida Error.
by slapjaw ackrite on Nov 23, 2009 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
Dammit
I think Chuck’s hand speed has diminished too much to be dangerous against good wrestlers with fast hands (Rashad). His awesome sprawl was in part due to his low hands, but with his hands/reflexes/feet slowing down, he seems too easy to hit. Add to that his softened chin, I see a good chance of the same result against Sugar.
Welcome to the Machida Error.
by slapjaw ackrite on Nov 23, 2009 10:18 PM EST up reply actions
but you got that
just from the Shogun fight? You can’t give Shogun credit for making Chuck look that bad? the only fight after the Evans fight for chuck was Shogun, and during his fight with Evans he was owning him on the stand up, but got careless because Evans had a great game plan to play cat & mouse. I just think he would be better in a rematch and wouldn’t fall for the same plan. I still say he has two years left if he returns, I don’t think he’s out of the game just yet.
cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.
When did I say that?
Not trying to take anything from Shogun, easy buddy haha. I’m his fan too (maybe not to the extent you are, but still). I thought Shogun was gonna get embarassed by Machida, then I got pissed about the decision. Very impressed in that fight, and I think the wrong guy has the belt.
Anyways, I just think its obvious that Chuck’s reflexes have slowed, his punches have less snap, etc. I mean, look at the Jardine fight…Prime Chuck probably woulda sang “rock a bye baby” and tucked him into bed. Jardine doesn’t have the best chin. When Chuck’s hands were faster, even if it was only a little bit, he could get away with the low hands…especially when he fought guys with subpar striking or no KO power.
Welcome to the Machida Error.
by slapjaw ackrite on Nov 23, 2009 11:02 PM EST up reply actions
no no, I’m not trying to put words in your mouth, my bad :P
what I meant is that I felt Chuck has fought the way he always has, looking at the Evans fight for example, he was doing great until the KO (thanks to greg jackson). The Shogun fight he was just outclassed by a better striker. the thing about Jardine though is that he can be a pain in the ass, he’s got great kicks and kept Chuck at bay, Page (who I consider has tremendous boxing skills) had trouble with him too. I’m not saying Chuck can become champion again, far from it, but I am sure he’ll be able to beat most guys still at 205, such as Thiago, Vera, Cane, etc.
cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.
Oh no doubt
I don’t think he could touch the top five, except maybe Griffin (not sure where he’s ranked though). But after that, his chances improve a lot. The only problem is his reluctance to adapt, and the blueprints to beat him are pretty much laid out for strikers with good A kicks B hands (power and/or speed) C chins. Not all three required, two at least I’d think.
Welcome to the Machida Error.
by slapjaw ackrite on Nov 23, 2009 11:31 PM EST up reply actions
yeah
the guy is not going to learn new tricks, he’s old school like wandy, they’ll go out the way they have always fought without being able to develop their games any further. but I still think both will beat most guys in their divisions, just not the top guys though.
cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.
meh
I can see him in competitive fights with most of the bottom tier of the top10 and nearly all of the top 20. Let’s not forget that despite getting blown out in rd 3, he took round 2 on two scorecards and arguably took round 1 as well (and did on one card). That was a very close and competitive fight. For two rounds anyway.
Matchups I’d like to see or would at least be competitive: loser of T. Silva vs Rashad, Cane, Franklin, Jardine, Jon Jones, Vera, Hamill, Coleman, Wanderlei if he wants to fight at 205 again… all of those folks are in the top25 on the BE rankings.
by Cory Braiterman on Nov 23, 2009 11:45 AM EST reply actions
he still had effective GNP i’ll give him that. period. that is still his bread and butter…and he’s one of the few guys that I sorta get excited even when he’s in a guy’s guard (no homo).
Gatti. Dekkers. Pele. Aoki. Kang. Vanderlei. Basillio. Harry Greb.
by theworldsoldestsport on Nov 23, 2009 12:19 PM EST reply actions
It’s been said before, but basically there was nothing WRONG with Tito in this fight, outside of gassing entirely in R3. He looked exactly the same as he always does. No striking, a solid double leg and short elbows in the guard. The problem is, the game has passed up the 1 dimensional guys from a few years ago.
I’m curious to see Luke’s thoughts on Matt Hughes, as him and Tito are basically the same fighter. Strong wrestlers who used their wrestling skill and power to dominate a division, until one day the division had a bunch of guys who could wrestle AND do everything else…and suddenly they just weren’t relevant anymore. This is Tito to a T.
His long layoff may have been the reason for his failing gas tank in R3, as cardio is one thing Ortiz is known for….but the guy still is the same fighter he was in 2003. He’s got a great chin when he’s fighting anyone not named Chuck, so he can always make a good opponent for guys, but his days as a top contender are over.
What next? If Jon Jones wins convincingly against Matt Hamill, feed Tito to him. He’s still got enough name value to help build up a solid up and comer.
by Jason H. on Nov 23, 2009 2:00 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Matt Hughes has way more dimensions that Tito and his takedowns, imo, are much better and he’s got at least servicable enough striking to set them up. Plus, Matt has actually shown a bit of submission acumen and ability to advance position from the top in order to finish fights or rack up damage.
Hughes seemed to lose a step or three when he left Miletich and started H.I.T. Squad. I don’t know if he did all his fight training at his own camp, but its often said that its hard to improve when you’re the best guy in your camp. Plus, he said he stopped or reduced his weight training, going to plyometrics…said he didn’t need to lift as heavy weights. He seemed to lose size and his gorilla strength from his prime days to his post GSP II days. He also said he hated the cut to 170 when he fought Royce at 175lbs. I think the UFC’s hype may have got to his head, and he stopped training as hard. His decline seemed really sudden.
Welcome to the Machida Error.
by slapjaw ackrite on Nov 23, 2009 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
Wouldn’t mind seeing Tito whale on Fishbob Vera.
Keep firing Assholes!
Freezing my nuts off in Canada.
I'd love that fight. Haha.
You think he can beat Vera after that awful performance he showed? It’s not like Tito knows how to hold someone on the fence, nor is he a decent striker. Haha.
by Anton Tabuena on Nov 23, 2009 6:13 PM EST up reply actions

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