How to Lose Gracelessly: Tito Ortiz Edition

by Luke Thomas on Nov 22, 2009 1:16 PM EST in News Comment 53 comments

I'm often identified as a Dana White critic while I admit to being a Tito Ortiz fan, but the idea Ortiz was robbed by the judges last night is the height of idiocy and pathetic grasping. Dana couldn't be more right here.

On the other hand, the criticism that Tito Ortiz is finished and meaningless other than to draw ratings or sell tickets is somewhat unfounded. More on that later today.

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Apparently there was a big difference between what people saw on TV and what we saw live. Sometimes that happens. Tito was physically manhandling Forrest in the first two rounds and nothing Griffin did seemed to phaze him in the slightest. I thought it was a draw, 10-9, 109, 8-10. I can’t wait to see the PPV!

by JonathanSnowden on Nov 22, 2009 1:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

From your sense of things, what was the impression on press row?

by Luke Thomas on Nov 22, 2009 1:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think it seemed split. Everyone agreed that the first two rounds were close. There was a lot of discussion of Round three being 10-8. It wasn’t scored that way, and it’s hard to think of what more Forrest would need to do. It was a massacre.

by JonathanSnowden on Nov 22, 2009 1:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Just goes to show how difficult it is to get the judges to score a 10-8 round. Forrest hit Tito with everything barring the kitchen sink in the third, the only thing he didn’t do was knock Tito down – and it gets scored exactly like it had been a fairly close round with one of the fighters landing a little more and working a little harder.

Had Forrest had any more success, he’d have finished Tito. Still, 10-9. Bah.

by lhasafi on Nov 22, 2009 2:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

How did the Ric Flair fest go over with the crowd last night? That had to be a near record number of eye pokes and illegal blows…

I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.

by The_Gaijin on Nov 22, 2009 1:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Crowd was testy. Probably because many paid to see Lesnar….

by JonathanSnowden on Nov 22, 2009 2:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I can understand being a fan of Tito because of what he’s done for the sport, but how can you actually like the guy as a person after how he acted post-fight and at the press conference? It’s nothing but excuses and complaining with him. That offended me way more than Brock’s post-win behavior. By the way, I’m neither a Tito nor Brock fan, nor Dana White.

by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Nov 22, 2009 1:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

that’s classic Tito though, ain’t gonna change any time soon, he’ll stay that way until he retires (after each and every loss).

cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.

by orcus on Nov 22, 2009 2:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed about the “Tito is done.” talk being a bit too soon. I’m not a big fan of Ortiz or all of his excuses, but give the man some time to shake the rust off before you make a judgment about his abilities. He’s been gone for a year and it seems like everyone wants to put him in the Liddell/Hughes category of ineffectiveness even after he showed a pretty decent performance against Forrest in the first two rounds.

Without pain, without sacrifice, we would have nothing.

by lowellthehammer on Nov 22, 2009 1:46 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

He couldn't muster an effort in the 3rd round

It’s one thing to get beat, it’s another when he isn’t able to go. I think it’s a fair question to ask, fights are scheduled for at least 3 rounds.

by bignerd on Nov 22, 2009 5:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Wouldn’t be surprised if his lacking cardio was poor due in part to his long layoff. I’m just saying it’s a bit too soon to make any sort of commentary on Tito’s future – it’s quite understandable to turn in a bad performance after such a long break. If he gasses in the third of his next fight, then I can understand talk of him not being a force in the division, but at least give the man a few fights to show what he can do before passing him over as shot.

Without pain, without sacrifice, we would have nothing.

by lowellthehammer on Nov 22, 2009 5:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He complained in the post fight interview of being unable to train for the fight. Rogan gushed the entire card about what a great camp Tito had and the obligatory “best of shape of life” said about every old fighter. Which story do I believe the next time around?

by bignerd on Nov 22, 2009 5:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Tito talks almost entirely in contradictions and excuses, so I do my best to ignore him. All I’m saying is that it only makes sense to give him a few more fights before assuming too much from this performance.

Without pain, without sacrifice, we would have nothing.

by lowellthehammer on Nov 22, 2009 6:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Nice to see Ariel getting his props....

I love his interviews. Dana is totally right, best interviewer in MMA. Dave Farra (sp?) from MMA Fix just doesn’t do enough interviews to keep pace w/ Ariel, but both do a great job, and aren’t afraid to ask the tough questions.

by Dexerion on Nov 22, 2009 1:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Good interviewer, however the website itself is pretty lame. I would definitely say Bloody Elbow is the best for interaction with fans and interesting commentary and MMA Junkie is the best for information.

As for the fight, I hate Tito Ortiz so my opinion is biased by I had it 29-28 Griffin. The cut on Griffin was easy and I believe that Ortiz was targeting that scar tissue for dramatic effect. He knew it was there and went right after it. Blood sells judges.

I was similarly disappointed with Griffin’s lack of ability to knock Ortiz out.

by b_radical on Nov 22, 2009 2:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't care for AOL Fanhouse either.....

but Ariel is still the shiz. BloodlyElbow is THE source for MMAnews for sure.

by Dexerion on Nov 22, 2009 2:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Dana’s reaction here is very funny for everyone who followed Ariel when he had his old super-ugly, but content-wise extremely ambitious website (I don’t even remember the name any longer). He went alone to every single event and was somehow able to interview everyone in the biz. Except at UFC-events, because of course he was banned there. And he was quite pissed about it too.

Now he works with some by UFC-accepted and suddenly his rather obvious over-ambition gets recognized by the big guy himself.

All well that ends well, I guess.

by Sventsh on Nov 22, 2009 2:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

mma rated

by pinchet on Nov 22, 2009 2:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks. Really ugly blog. And he tried to gain a lot of viewers through scarcely clad ladies (which certainly isn’t what I want on my mma-sites). But it was still a good site, because of his hardcore work-ethic.

by Sventsh on Nov 22, 2009 2:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Dana must really like Baroni because you can’t justify him being in the UFC again he has looked about as bad as he could in his last couple fights and is completely shot.

by scrambledeggs on Nov 22, 2009 2:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

well… i think people were probably saying the same thing about coleman, after the shogun fight. but he was able to beat bonnar. personally, i dont mind them keeping these vets from the early days, on the roster… if for no other reason, than to let them make a couple paychecks. if he loses in the same fashion in his next fight, then yeah, he deserves to go. same with trigg if he loses to serra.

by woooburn on Nov 22, 2009 2:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well if he loses again which he will he’ll be 13 and 13 with a 3 and 7 record in the UFC so yeah I’d say he done.

by scrambledeggs on Nov 22, 2009 2:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I may be alone in this, but I see Coleman beating the crap out of Couture… Just wait!

cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.

by orcus on Nov 22, 2009 2:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

baroni will be used like frank trigg and marcus davis. pretty much guaranteed wins for guys

coming off tuf show. look what saunders did to davis. koscheck did to trigg and now sabdollah over baroni. man i would hat e to feel like baroni today. i’ll bet he can’t walk for days. tito was totally gassed in third round. you could have scored that round 10-8. i never have seen a fighter look at the clock 25 seconds into the round. peace.

yes i am obsessive, obnoxious, in your face and all about covering the spread. those are my good qualities.

by wolfmanshowlforever on Nov 22, 2009 2:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

For clarity.

by bignerd on Nov 22, 2009 5:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

baroni will be used like frank trigg and marcus davis. pretty much guaranteed wins for guys

yes i am obsessive, obnoxious, in your face and all about covering the spread. those are my good qualities.

by wolfmanshowlforever on Nov 22, 2009 2:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Davis is one of my least favorite fighters and I’m not a huge Trigg fan either, but you’re being grossly unjust by lumping them in with Baroni.

by Jahbulon on Nov 22, 2009 2:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Davis is nobody's guaranteed win

He’s only lost to who, Swick, Saunders, and Hardy in the UFC right? I think he went on a 5 or 6-0 run before that.

Welcome to the Machida Error.

by slapjaw ackrite on Nov 22, 2009 2:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Seriously

Davis is a quality fighter, the guy has no idea what he’s talking about.

"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba

by Blackout612 on Nov 22, 2009 3:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

no idea i make quite a bit of money on these fights. just check out mma4real.

i post the moneylines for all the ufc events. you can check who i have had in the past two weeks. aldo +200 saunders +225 kendall grove +160 griffin -140 sabdollah -200
hardy +175 couture -115 etc etc. i even called most of the rounds and either tko’s or submits. i know you don’t have a track record like mine. these are vegas/reno lines too. not your costa rican lines you guys play for. peace.

yes i am obsessive, obnoxious, in your face and all about covering the spread. those are my good qualities.

by wolfmanshowlforever on Nov 22, 2009 5:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Wow, you’re awesome. I wish I was k00l on the Internet like you.

by ufc4 on Nov 23, 2009 12:17 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

you guys keep playing checkers while i'll play chess

yes i am obsessive, obnoxious, in your face and all about covering the spread. those are my good qualities.

by wolfmanshowlforever on Nov 23, 2009 3:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He also lost to Melvin Guillard by a cut right after TUF. Davis is a tough guy – I think this is the first time he’s been KO’d.

Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by themachiavellian on Nov 22, 2009 4:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

almost 37 years old with scar tissue under both eye's

he will be most people’s guarateed win for now on. the old guard can’t keep up with the young guns. i had sauders at +225. you keep betting those veterans and you will be broke. peace.

yes i am obsessive, obnoxious, in your face and all about covering the spread. those are my good qualities.

by wolfmanshowlforever on Nov 22, 2009 5:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

For the love of God

quit saying “peace” at the end of every post!

by The_Gaijin on Nov 22, 2009 6:33 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs

if you stop with love i'll stop with peace

peace sells but who is buying? war machine. different line of work. lol.

yes i am obsessive, obnoxious, in your face and all about covering the spread. those are my good qualities.

by wolfmanshowlforever on Nov 23, 2009 3:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I have a feeling the UFC is not going to be letting fighters go that fast anymore, if a TV deal is really on the horizon, they’ll need many fighters to create many UFC fight night events. I think Phil markets himself pretty well and can bring in some views.

cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.

by orcus on Nov 22, 2009 2:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

dammit

that was to scrambledeggs.

cagar é uma filosofia profunda...
a merda bate na água e a água bate na bunda.

by orcus on Nov 22, 2009 2:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I guess Dana likes Phil’s chances of getting an early KO against some weaker opposition.

by lhasafi on Nov 22, 2009 2:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It doesn’t matter if he thinks Baroni can win.

Baroni will step into the cage and scrap. He might get ko’d, he might ko someone real early, he might get his ass kicked, but he will put on a show.

If they’re going to network TV or goign to keep showing prelims on spike he’s the kind of fighter they need to keep around.

by Phildo on Nov 22, 2009 10:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

What are you talking about? What show does Baroni put on now besides his stupid ring entrances, talking a bunch of shit and then falling flat at fight time getting completely gassed out 3 minutes into the fight and getting dominated by his opponent because that’s exactly what he’s done his last two fights.

How exactly is that great for network TV or televised prelims?
That’s not putting on a show being barely able to stand up because you’re dead tired from the 2nd rd on.

by scrambledeggs on Nov 23, 2009 1:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He will fight a stand up fight that will result in someone taking a beating, that is what is entertaining to lots of people.

by Phildo on Nov 23, 2009 8:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

On the other hand, the criticism that Tito Ortiz is finished and meaningless other than to draw ratings or sell tickets is somewhat unfounded. More on that later today.

This. Will people ever tire of writing stupid reactionary essays calling for a fighter to retire an hour after he loses a fight?

by Chris Nelson on Nov 22, 2009 2:41 PM EST reply actions 3 recs

In Japan, nobody cares. In the US, the second a guy loses he’s worthless. Go figure.

"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba

by Blackout612 on Nov 22, 2009 3:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I never understood that

Still, MMA isn’t as bad as boxing in that regard yet. I couldn’t believe all the pieces calling for Cotto to retire

by Shaun32887 on Nov 22, 2009 3:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Different Cultural Expectations.

We focus on winning (ULTIMATE Fighting Championships); the Japanese focus on competitiveness (PRIDE Fighting Championship)

Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by themachiavellian on Nov 22, 2009 4:55 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs

this

"I want to tell me what you see, let's go ahead and see by in the fight, what you saw, in the ring." - Tito Ortiz

by CasualMMAFan on Nov 22, 2009 5:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Coleman,Randy,Tito,Hughes and Hendo are all guys who first generation wrestling based fighters who will never progress their skillset any further. They will all be able to compete to some degree,for a period of time and level of sucess for only so long. Then they will become extinct, replaced by the generation led by GSP of all people.

by Koob on Nov 22, 2009 6:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Gotta disagree on Hughes

He’s added some pretty slick submissions to his game, which is more than you can saw about most other high end wrestlers. Yeah it was a while ago and I don’t think he’s a top WW anymore, but don’t say he’s a wrestler who’s never progressed his skillset.

I’d like to see most other wrestlers land that far side armbar he caught on GSP

by Shaun32887 on Nov 22, 2009 6:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah that is true...

He definitely has some key subs in his highlight reel.

by Koob on Nov 22, 2009 9:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I mean, he got Royce in an americana and made it look easy, that’s gotta count for something

by Shaun32887 on Nov 23, 2009 12:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

This isn't anything new for Chito.

He whined about getting screwed out of a decision with Machida. A lot. If you have this many problems with having your fights go to a judges’ decision, here’s a novel idea – while not losing any of your wrestling game, find someone to honestly train you to stand up. Maybe you’ll get a KO or two.

by Seanny Rotten on Nov 22, 2009 8:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs