The Case Against an Interim Heavyweight Title
by Michael Rome on Nov 18, 2009 4:10 PM EST
in MMA News
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Just a few days ago, Dana White told us Brock Lesnar was very sick. He couldn't comment on what it was specifically, but he let us know it was bad. Real bad. Maybe life threatening. Definitely career endangering. But he assured us it wasn't AIDS or cancer. Three days later, Brock Lesnar is out of the hospital and resting at home after minor surgery for an intestinal disorder. Turns out that as soon as he went to a hospital they were able to handle his issues.
Dana White is not a doctor. I've been saying that over and over to people the last few days. He has no idea what Brock's future is medically. Based on what we know now, I wouldn't be shocked if Brock is back in the octagon fighting by summer. A lot has changed in a few days.
There's news that Dana is considering an interim heavyweight title match. My guess is it would be on the Australia card and that it would feature Shane Carwin vs. Cain Velasquez. I see no reason whatsoever to make this fight. Just 3 days ago everyone thought Brock was on his deathbed, now he's at home on a low fiber diet recovering. Give it two weeks, and see what his medical status is then. Maybe he really won't fight again. But maybe he'll be ready to fight by the Memorial Day show in May. If that's the case, creating an interim champion in February only to unify in May is a ludicrous decision that only cheapens the title.
Here's an alternative suggestion. Wait 3 weeks, and if it looks like Brock will be able to fight again, simply schedule his original fight with Carwin for late spring or early summer, and put Cain Velasquez and Nogueira on The Ultimate Fighter as coaches. By the time they finish and fight it will probably be right around the time Brock fights Carwin, and we'll have another good contender. If they don't want Nog on there again, maybe Cain and Mir if Mir wins at 107. This solution avoids a pointless interim title and takes care of the TUF problem without putting a division on hold.
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1. It’s not necessarily all about the interim title, it’s at least partially an excuse to have Cain/Carwin go 5 rounds.
2. A guy with 7 fights as a TUF coach?
3. I agree with the wait-and-see in terms of Brock’s health, but I don’t think Interims “cheapen the title” at all. They’re a means to an end, and a guaranteed way to build a fight.
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Your second point....
Because we’re worried about maintaining the credibility of TUF coaches after THIS season????
"I would approve signing a pitcher that ate kitten tacos if he won 20 games a year." -BPinOK
No, because Cain needs to spend his time making himself better, not trying to teach other people.
by ufc4 on Nov 18, 2009 5:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
That's certainly a valid point
But who knows Carwin right now aside from the hardcore fans? Seems like a great way to build him up.
I was a casual before TUF 9, and by the end of the season, I couldn’t wait for Hendo to beat the shit out of Bisping. Even more than Brock’s fight, that’s what got me to buy UFC 100. I had to see that beatdown. Needless to say, I was a very happy consumer.
"(Brock Lesnar) never in good spirits and he's not in good spirits now." - Dana White
Well…As we constantly point out…the TUF coaches do very little coaching. Cain could be training the entire season, showing up to put in his hour in the TUF gym and go about his day.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 18, 2009 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
If he only has to spend an hour a day there it wouldn’t be a big deal but I wonder if there are other obligations that go along with it that would take his focus away from his training.
by ufc4 on Nov 18, 2009 5:45 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It really doesn't matter either way.
And the WEC just created an Interim LW title in October, that will now be unified in January.
No matter what Brock is probably out until Summer. After all he’s gone through a bout of mono and diverticulitis back to back. Now that’s a long time to have Carwin wait. I say do Cain/Carwin at 110 to settle the next challenger. If Mir win, we get a Mir/Nog rematch for who’s next in line. Now I just got to figure out where Dos Santos fits into the equation.
If Brock might be ready by the summer… wouldn’t the last thing you’d want to do be to take the two top contenders off the table while they wait to each other after a TUF season?
I would prefer to see Carwin/Velasquez as a 5-rounder, but then that would be about 23 minutes longer than Carwin’s longest fight ever… so it’s not likely to come in to play whether it’s 5 rounds or 3.
I think this is Dana's way of building a Legand for Lesnar
The miraculous comeback story of 2010 for Brock. Maybe Dana listened to Shane-O-Mac a little too long when he was in the Zuffa offices? It all sounds too fish to me…
Brock returns from a near death experience, and is now a fan favorite instead of the guy people used to boo? Not that out of question. Maybe Dana found the avenue to turn Brock from heel to face?
There is no way Dana would want to do that. Brock is a heel through and through, always has been always will. No doubt Dana sees that that is how he sells his PPV’s.
Sorry, he Jason Bourned me.
Personally I thought most of the exaggerations about Brock's health concerns came from the media.
I thought Dana’s comments about Lesnar’s health were pretty much in-line with what he knew at the time. Almost every headline I read about Brock’s health was worded somewhat ominously to get people to click it or watch it. So for me the sensationalism and speculation on Dana’s comments is what was misleading.
I’m basing that off of the couple articles I read that put Dana’s comments in context with the actual questions that were asked and it didn’t seem over the top.
Just BE.
I agree
No need to make an interim title just yet..
If you want.. make the fight’s as planned.. But hold off on another secondary title. That’s something they can do at any point. The fight’s must go on. So let the champ have some time to heal and assess the situation in a couple weeks. See what his progress is and he’ll let ya know..
As far as knocking off contenders.. The HW division is pretty thin considering injuries.. These guys were originally planned to fight as a title eliminator anyways.. Put that fight back on.. The best man was going to win anyways and get the next shot at Lesnar.. This gives Lesnar his due diligence and time to heal.
Nog & Mir need a rematch before either of them gets another title shot.. period.. Dos Santos needs 1-2 more bigger fights before he gets his.. Let the division heal itself up and let the current TUF’ers find their places..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
Thing about Junior Dos Santos is that if he beats Gonzaga his resume is actually better than Cain and Carwins:
Junior Dos Santos will be 4-0 in the UFC with wins over Fabricio Werdum (#13), Mirko Cro Crop (who was #15 before losing to JDS), and Gabriel Gonzaga (#15)
Cain Velasquez is 5-0 with wins over Chiek Kongo (#16) and Ben Rothwell (#17)
Shane Carwin is 3-0 with really just Gabriel Gonzaga (#15) on his record.
JDS’s resume is already better than Cain and Carwin’s. It was better the moment he beat Fabricio Werdum.
by JRN on Nov 18, 2009 6:11 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
My guess is it would be on the Australia card and that it would feature Shane Carwin vs. Cain Velasquez. I see no reason whatsoever to make this fight.
I do; because i would want to see it live : )
But you’re right, definitely no need to make it for an interim title. A number one contenders match is perfectly adequate and in my opinion would actually hold more value, by a) not cheapening the undisputed title and b) getting people more hyped about Brock’s next title defence.
Sorry, he Jason Bourned me.
Can we please get some new blood on TUF?
I get tired of seeing the same coaches. Hughes twice, Rampage twice and now we want Nog twice?
How about giving under exposed fighters a chance to coach? Jon Fitch? Thiago Alves? Nate Marquadt? Gray Maynard? Frank Edgar?
Give some of your better fighters more exposure.
Not exactly great TV personalities on those guys
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 18, 2009 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
Dan Henderson...
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Nov 19, 2009 6:58 AM EST up reply actions
Interim title/#1 contender
Same thing to me. Let them fight, I don’t want Carwin to go that long without a fight and then just jump in the cage with Lesnar.
Exactly Carwin hasnt fought since March 2009 and now we want to say wait
until May/June/July/August 2010?
Interim titles annoy the hell out of me
Completely worthless. They just flood the market and devalue real title matches.
The path to my fixed purpose is laid with iron rails, whereon my soul is grooved to run. Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering BROCKLESNAR; to the last I grapple with thee.
Another point..
Mir was in a more serious position in regard to life or death and career ending injury or illness.
They let him wait out almost a full year before they finally put up an interim title and it was over a year when they officially stripped him of the real title and making the interim the actual title..
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
There also wasn’t nearly as much talent in the division then.
by ufc4 on Nov 18, 2009 6:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
All of that is irelevant though..
Just because there are more cards and a more competitive division, doesn’t mean we need to throw a secondary title in the mix immediately.. unless of course they may know something they havent told us and are waiting it out to announce ??
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
sure but really another title only cheapens that title.
For example if Cain and Carwin fight for the interim then it adds some hype to the fight… but the value of the title will only increase with how many times it gets defended.
So if the next fight right after that is with Lesnar then the value of the interim drops (this has no negative effects on the value of Lesnars title).
But then the problem occurs when Brock is not available for a year (which is probable). and there are all these high caliber contenders. (JDS, Big Nog, Mir)
If JDS wins he’s the clear front runner so a challenger is ready right away.
Nog will probably fight the winner of Mir v Kong and then you have the second clear challenger.
Lesnar can say he’ll be ready in 4 months next week but the shit he has future complications occur so all of that needs to be real clear and right now there’s too many variables. If Lesnar does come out faster than anticipated then worst case the interim title holds little value (there’s really no negative side affects to this)
How many people remember that GSP v Hughes 3 was for the interim belt and Serra had the real one?
Nobody gives a shit after the fact. It certainly helps before the fact though.
by mmalogic on Nov 18, 2009 8:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Does anyone think...
..that maybe Dana White told the public that he may never fight again as a way to gain publicity, maybe even some sympathy for a fighter that most of the general public hates. This story had some serious legs. It was picked by almost all major news outlets and locally in New York it was brought up on sports talk which never ever happens especially since Kellerman left ESPN radio.
Does anyone think it?
You mean aside from all the people who already suggested it in these comments?
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MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 18, 2009 6:28 PM EST up reply actions
An interim title is exactly what’s needed for the HW division, you can’t put it all on hold because Brock if he comes back won’t be ready until the summer.
You can have Cain and Carwin fight for 5 rounds and the winner will become the clear number 1 contender for Brock’s belt and the unification bout between either Cain/Carwin vs. Brock would be a huge buyrate.
Win/Win for the UFC can you imagine the hype that Brock’s return to the cage against undefeated interim champion Cain/Carwin will get by summer time?. That would be a huge fight and considering that Cain/Carwin only have 1 big win for themselves honestly they need another win to make them a real threat to new fans and get them over and to help give the UFC their biggest fight of the year.
I keep hearing people mentioning how one advantage of creating an interim title would that it would be great for Cain/Carwin to be a 5 round fight. Carwin has fought for a total of 12 minutes in 11 fights. Can anyone ever see one of his fights going for a full 5 rounds?
Sorry, he Jason Bourned me.
They said the same about JDS going vs Crocop right? Well, i didn’t expect a decision
by ZephyrBrasil on Nov 18, 2009 7:54 PM EST up reply actions
This may all just be the rumor pendulum swinging too far the other way now. We’re still all going to have to wait a good while to have any clear sense of when Brock might return. When he’s recovered, and can train hard for a month without complications or anything, then maybe the UFC can start planning something for him. But I expect they’ll really want to know for sure, and give Brock a long amount of time. The man’s gotta recover from surgery, and the deleterious effect this has had on his body, then see if he can train at the level he needs to for a sustained time period. Otherwise the UFC could be faced with pushing his next fight back again and again.
I sorta don’t care about interim titles one way or the other. We all know it’s just a number one contender matchup, but if they want an excuse for a five-rounder, a flashy belt for the cameras, blah,blah,blah, I don’t mind it. They’re pretty hard up for big fights to hype, so I’d cut ‘em slack on this one. It’s a lame duck, but not unprecedented either.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Nov 19, 2009 2:22 AM EST reply actions
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