USAT/SBN November MMA Consensus Rankings: Light Heavyweight

by Kid Nate on Nov 19, 2009 2:33 PM EST in Rankings Comment 40 comments

Rank	Fighter	%	Promotion	Last Rank
1	Lyoto Machida	100	UFC	1
2	Mauricio Rua	92	UFC	4
3	Rashad Evans	91	UFC	2
4	Quinton Jackson	84	UFC	3
5	Forrest Griffin	79	UFC	5
6	Gegard Mousasi	74	Strikeforce	8
7	Thiago Silva	72	UFC	7
8	Anderson Silva	60	UFC	6
9	Antonio Rogerio Nogueira	55	UFC	9
10	Luis Arthur Cane	52	UFC	10
11	Rich Franklin	43	UFC	11
12	Keith Jardine	32	UFC	13
13	Dan Henderson	31	Free Agent	12
14	Renato Sobral	29	Strikeforce	15
15	Jon Jones	25	UFC	18
16	Chuck Liddell	24	UFC	14
17	Brandon Vera	24	UFC	16
18	Sokoudjou	21	Strikeforce/DREAM	22
19	Vladimir Matyushenko	20	UFC	20
20	Matt Hamill	20	UFC	19
21	Mark Coleman	20	UFC	24
22	Wanderlei Silva	19	UFC	16
23	Vitor Belfort	19	UFC	22
24	Paulo Filho	18	DREAM	25
25	Tito Ortiz	17	UFC	21

Rankings compiled by Richard Wade.

In the time we've been compiling these rankings, I've never seen a fighter shoot up to #2 after a loss, but #2 Mauricio "Shogun" Rua's loss to #1 Lyoto Machida at UFC 104 was no ordinary loss. Even though the judges unanimously concluded that Machida won the first three rounds, virtually every observer, including the official judges scored the last two rounds for Shogun.

Clearly Rua "solved" the mystery of Machida karate. The X factor in the rematch is whether or not he'll be able to apply that knowledge in such a way that he is able to win the majority of the rounds or finish the fight. Pushing the pace could expose Rua to the kind of blistering counter-attacks that fell so many previous Machida opponents.

#3 Rashad Evans will now headline UFC 108 against #7 Thiago Silva. This is a far cry from the UFC 107 bout against #4 Quinton "Rampage" Jackson that fans of The Ultimate Fighter's most watched season ever have been hoping for. But Hollywood and a sudden collapse in the relationship of Jackson and UFC boss Dana White first postponed and now have seemingly curtailed that grudge match.

We'll see if Jackson holds true to his pledge to retire from MMA. But if he does attempt to return and tries to fight for anyone other than the UFC, expect legal fireworks.

#5 Forrest Griffin will headline UFC 106 against #25 Tito Ortiz this weekend. This is another fight that was a substitute for a substitute. Originally Ortiz was to return to the UFC against Mark Colemn, but Coleman's injury created the opening for the Griffin match. Heavyweight Champ Brock Lesnar's illness bumped his fight with Shane Carwin off the card and pushed Griffin-Ortiz into the headliner spot. For a fight between two ranked former champions, it's hard to imagine how the fight could be less relevant to the division.

That card will also see #9 Antonio Rogerio Nogueira make his UFC debute against #10 Luiz Arthur Cane in a fight that could have near-term title implications. Nogueira has expressed a willingness to fight Machida, despite both having trained together and sharing a manager in Ed Soares. Regardless of who wins Nogueira/Cane and Machida/Rua 2 it seems likely that the UFC light heavyweight belt will remain in Brazilian hands for the forseeable future.

#6 Gegard Mousasi pounded out #18 Sokoudjou at Strikeforce: Fedor vs Rogers and now occupies a unique position in MMA -- being a non-UFC fighter who would be an immediate threat to contend for the UFC title who isn't Fedor Emelianenko or a lightweight (yes, I'm excluding Jake Shields on purpose). it will be very interesting to see if Strikeforce and DREAM can provide Mousasi with credible opposition.

Based on the premise that all MMA rankings are subjective but that it’s still useful and informative to know who the online MMA community as a whole ranks as the best fighters in MMA, we collect and average the rankings of the top MMA websites to produce our consensus rankings. Show more "

We compile the top MMA rankings from each of our sources and award 25 points for a first place ranking, 16 for a 10th place ranking, 1 for a 25th place ranking. A formula is used to "normalize" the data so all fighters are awarded points from those lists that do not include a full 25 fighters. This formula ensures that each ranking site awards the same number of total points regardless of how many fighters they choose to rank. Each fighter’s total is divided by the number of possible points to determine their standing in the Consensus Rankings.

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Have you ever seen a fighter jump to #2 after a robbery/BS decision/whatever people want to label it as?

by KrmtDfrog on Nov 18, 2009 8:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I can’t say that I have.

Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

by Richard Wade on Nov 18, 2009 11:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Have you ever seen a fighter jump to #2 after a ~~robbery/BS decision/whatever people want to label it as~~ closely contested loss in a title fight?

Fixed

by ufc4 on Nov 19, 2009 12:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Still no.

by Richard Wade on Nov 19, 2009 1:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

LHW rankings based solely on wins over ranked opponents

It’s interesting to contrast the MMAth compilation below to the consensus out there:

1. Machida
2. A. Silva
3. Evans
4. Griffin
5. Jackson
6. Rua
7. Henderson
8. Liddell
9. Franklin
10. W.Silva
11. T.Silva
12. Jardine
13. Ortiz
14. Jones
15. Coleman
16. Bonnar
17. Irvin
18. Bader
19. Shafer
20. Alexander
21. Musasi
22. Sobral
23. Cane
24. Sokoudjou
25. Nogueira

by klown on Nov 19, 2009 1:50 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

How does James Irvin wind up above guys like Mousasi and Nogueira?

Is Franklin above Silva by virtue of their fight? If so, where’s Belfort?

Why is Anderson Silva above Rashad Evans, when Evans beat Griffin first?

Ranking MMA

by JRN on Nov 19, 2009 5:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

good questions :)

1. Irvin beat Shafer, who beat Alexander, who is only ranked because he once beat a Top 10 fighter, Jardine. In contrast, neither Mousasi nor Nogueira has beaten anyone of note (like the 20 above them) in the last few years. Mousasi’s greatest accomplishments are beating Sobral and Sokoudjou and he is appropriately ranked right above them. Nogueira famously lost to Sokoudjou and belongs just below him.

It does seem (subjectively) odd for fighters like Bonnar, Irvin, and Alexander to be ranked above fighters who seem (subjectively) more impressive, like Mousasi and Nogueira. Part of it is there hasn’t been much mixing between the two groups. If Nogueira scores a few wins in the UFC we will see him shoot up these rankings. As for Mousasi, his only hope for leaping forward in the rankings is for Henderson to sign with Strikeforce….

2. I rank a fighter in every division in which he holds a win against a ranked opponent in the last 3 years. (The length of time is arbitrary. Perhaps 2 years is better?) Belfort holds no wins over ranked opponents at LHW in the last 3 years. If he were to successfully return to LHW I would put him in front of Franklin, or the opponent he defeated – whichever one was ranked higher.

3. A.Silva and Evans are equal in the sense that their greatest wins are over Griffin. To break the tie in such cases, I privilege the more recent fight and (more subjectively) the more decisive fight. I felt Silva’s crushing of Griffin was more emphatic than Evan’s win. But I wouldn’t object too loudly if those two were switched (or any 2 fighters in a similar scenario.)

by klown on Nov 20, 2009 3:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I know this is jumping

way ahead before their fight, but the story might not be how does Rua react to the loss and can he repeat the performance vs. Machida. The story might be how does Machida, a fighter who has seemingly forced everyone to adjust to him, now respond to the necessary adjustments to his opponent’s strategy.

by rzor on Nov 19, 2009 2:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

mousasi at #6 for what wins, exactly?

I’m a little confused. I thought he looked very good against two B-level fighters in sobral and sokoudjou, but those are his best wins (throw in Jacare as well). It seems that ppl are ranking his potential rather than his actual record. Obviously Strikeforce/M-1 are trying to seriously hype this guy-looks like it’s working.

by chimps on Nov 19, 2009 3:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Some weird combination

I mean, I think Anderson Silva would win the fight between pretty much every single person on that list.

by KrmtDfrog on Nov 19, 2009 3:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

who would you put above him?

True, his only LHW wins were over two top-20 fighters (the fight against Jacare was at MW — he has quite a few quality wins at MW). Other than Anderson Silva (who should be ranked higher), who would you put over him? Thiago Silva, the guy ranked immediately below him, has only one win against a ranked opponent in Jardine.

by Pantherhare on Nov 19, 2009 4:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

beating Jardine is a better win than Babalu and Soku in my opinion..

And yes, A.Silva should also be higher than Mousasi I think.

weoweoweo .deviantart .com -- @antontabuena

Due to the Questionable decision: "The only thing Fishbob does consistently is dissapoint."

by Anton Tabuena on Nov 19, 2009 5:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hendo and anderson silva above him, who knows who is better between cane, thiago silva or mousasi. I see how rankings are difficult to make.

by chimps on Nov 20, 2009 2:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He gets some credit for his fights out of the division and when he beat Sobral a lot of people were ranking Renato at the back end of their top 10.

by Richard Wade on Nov 19, 2009 6:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t think I agree with Shogun jumping up so high in rankings based off a loss. Without igniting the whole robbery debate again, I’d have to say a loss is a loss. Last I checked, history has recorded Machida as still being undefeated at 16-0, while Shogun has a new loss on his record at 18-4. I know all this is really subjective, but if you give credit for Shogun doing so well against Machida, you have to start giving credit to other fighters doing well until they get (KO’d, Subbed, Decisioned) and while you’re at it, you might want to give more or less credit to a fighter for winning/losing while injured, sick, etc. There are no asterisks in life, only scoreboards.

I love me some Sexyama!

by pud333 on Nov 19, 2009 3:22 PM EST reply actions 1 recs

See: Mizugaki, Takeya

by pdl on Nov 19, 2009 6:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Indeed.

Ranking MMA

by JRN on Nov 19, 2009 6:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think there are a lot of asterisks in life, actually. When you are creating a ranking system with subjective criteria, it’s all asterisks. This ain’t baseball; in fighting there are only two objective ranks; Champion and not champion. Hence, why you have to include all those asterisks, look at the performance of fighters even in losses, etc.

Rua is the only fighter who has not been clowned by Machida during his UFC reign. So sure, he lost, but he lost really well.* It’s like with Brett Rogers; sure he lost, but he did a hell of a lot better than the round one obliteration I was expecting. He lost, yet went up in my estimation. Asterisks.

"an excellent example of why most MMA "journalism" is a joke. Pseudonyms like "toxic" and shitty writing like that dopey article"--- Joe Rogan.

by toxic on Nov 19, 2009 3:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Yeah. I just don’t particularly like Rankings. They’re more subjective than the judging criteria for MMA. Still, I suppose it’s all in good fun.

I love me some Sexyama!

by pud333 on Nov 19, 2009 4:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Anderson Silva

Silva obliterated #5 Forrest how does this racking S$*t work
i see Silva at least under Rashad

by jgye2002 on Nov 19, 2009 4:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

read sir..

Based on the premise that all MMA rankings are subjective but that it’s still useful and informative to know who the online MMA community as a whole ranks as the best fighters in MMA, we collect and average the rankings of the top MMA websites to produce our consensus rankings. Show more "

We compile the top MMA rankings from each of our sources and award 25 points for a first place ranking, 16 for a 10th place ranking, 1 for a 25th place ranking. A formula is used to "normalize" the data so all fighters are awarded points from those lists that do not include a full 25 fighters. This formula ensures that each ranking site awards the same number of total points regardless of how many fighters they choose to rank. Each fighter’s total is divided by the number of possible points to determine their standing in the Consensus Rankings

weoweoweo .deviantart .com -- @antontabuena

Due to the Questionable decision: "The only thing Fishbob does consistently is dissapoint."

by Anton Tabuena on Nov 19, 2009 5:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That’s a question for all the people who ranked him below Griffin.

by Richard Wade on Nov 19, 2009 6:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm kind of new to this...

I get that these are subjective rankings, but I find it curious that Anderson Silva is ranked so low. I know he doesn’t have a lot of fights under his belt at this weight class, but after completely embarrassing Forrest (who apparently is still well respected enough to pull a #5 ranking) you’d think he would have a better ranking.

We all know he is one of if not the best P4P fighters in the world and so far he’s looked just as impressive at LHW IMHO.

Again I know these are subjective, and you can’t really say “Silva beat Forrest, so now Silva has to be #5 or higher” but I think he’s done enough to establish himself above Thiago, Mousasi and Forrest at this point.

I don’t follow the sport as closely as most of you guys, so maybe someone could enlighten me here about the way these things work.

Thing 2

by olympicmike on Nov 19, 2009 4:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

If I recall

part of the problem with multi-weight class fighters is that some sources will only rank him at his “natural” weight. So while one source may list him at #4 or #5 for LHW, another might not have him in their top 25 at all.

by rzor on Nov 19, 2009 4:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks...

That makes sense. I figured it had something to do with his fighting in two weight classes.

Thing 2

by olympicmike on Nov 19, 2009 4:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

What rzor said.

by Richard Wade on Nov 19, 2009 6:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Strange to see Sokoudjou move up four slots for fighting and losing unambiguously, Rich Franklin ranked at #11 with Dan Henderson Vitor Belfort both below him, Forrest above Anderson, Paulo Filho in the top 25 at all…

The consensus method is interesting, but man does it produce some goofy results

Ranking MMA

by JRN on Nov 19, 2009 5:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

It's because most sites rank Vitor in MW,

but a few ranking methods or rules of some sites, have catchweight bouts scored at 205.

weoweoweo .deviantart .com -- @antontabuena

Due to the Questionable decision: "The only thing Fishbob does consistently is dissapoint."

by Anton Tabuena on Nov 19, 2009 5:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Don’t the rules of the consensus rankings specifically stipulate that catchweight bouts are to count in the next highest weight class? I realize you can’t enforce this, but clearly a lot of people are ignoring it altogether.

Ranking MMA

by JRN on Nov 19, 2009 5:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

what?

the consensus ranking have rules they tell other ranking bodies? I don’t think they do.. otherwise they wouldn’t be just “compiling” them right?

weoweoweo .deviantart .com -- @antontabuena

Due to the Questionable decision: "The only thing Fishbob does consistently is dissapoint."

by Anton Tabuena on Nov 19, 2009 5:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Come to think of it, I was mixing these up with with the IWMMA rankings. Embarrassing.

Ranking MMA

by JRN on Nov 19, 2009 6:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

We don’t have rules.

by Richard Wade on Nov 19, 2009 6:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

but yes, If it was me, Soko should move down..

Belfort shouldn’t be ranked at all there, and Dan should be ranked at MW too, or at least not so high in the LHW, because he hasn’t fought there since he lost to rampage.

weoweoweo .deviantart .com -- @antontabuena

Due to the Questionable decision: "The only thing Fishbob does consistently is dissapoint."

by Anton Tabuena on Nov 19, 2009 5:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I’ve never understood the idea that a person should only be ranked in one weight class at a time. I think they should be ranked in whichever weight classes they’ve fought in within the past year or so.

(Dan fought and beat Franklin at 205.)

Ranking MMA

by JRN on Nov 19, 2009 5:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

oh yeah, i thought that was 195 too..

Sure if he has fought there go ahead. I just said that thinking he only fought at 195 and not 205 recently..

about belfort, I think since he’s a MW fighter, and that was just a one and done thing at catchweight, i don’t think he should be ranked at 205… (he never fought there nor does he have an intention of fighting there anyway)

weoweoweo .deviantart .com -- @antontabuena

Due to the Questionable decision: "The only thing Fishbob does consistently is dissapoint."

by Anton Tabuena on Nov 19, 2009 5:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He moved up because some sites were ranking him at HW instead of LHW prior to his last fight.

by Richard Wade on Nov 19, 2009 6:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Aaaaaah.

Again, I don’t understand the thinking behind only ranking people at one weight class at a time, especially when we know they’ll be bouncing back and forth.

Ranking MMA

by JRN on Nov 19, 2009 6:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think with Fight Matrix it has something to do with the way they generate their rankings.

by Richard Wade on Nov 19, 2009 6:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

For rankings that don’t have to worry about that I don’t know what their excuse is.

by Richard Wade on Nov 19, 2009 6:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Im wondering

How Tito is ranked 25th. Because he lost to Machida over a year ago?, or because he had a draw against Rashad 3 years ago?.

Also, it must suck to be Mousasi. He is in no mans land. I can hear the theme from “the good, bad & the ugly” playing in the background. Can’t go down, can’t stay in division with no fighters available. He will have to come up to HW I think or just waste away.

by SimplePsych on Nov 19, 2009 6:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs