The Guard as We Know It Will Disappear in Jiu-Jitsu, Too

Also you get rec’d for the Simpsons reference.

gogo platters and chili cheese fries.

What people aren’t mentioning is body type. I recently started bjj and immediately recognized how limited my full guard and triangles were because of my short legs and most of my partners were bigger. After seeing Marcelo Garcia, it gave me hope that you can have an adaptive style.

I don’t think Nate Diaz would necessarily do good with an x guard always trying to situp and sweep… he does great with the triangles and guard because of his body type. I think its all about maximizing your strengths and natural dispositions.

What do you consider rare?

This is actually pretty true. There are plenty of people with the same outlook on MMA, but using their new revolutionary form of jiu-jitsu to combat MMA fighters in a sport in which punching is used is tough to actually show off.

One of the things I key in on is strength. Strength can ultimately crush some of these ideas, and a lot of people tend to get into debates about how technical jiu-jitsu SHOULD overcome strength, but a very strong technical grappler not implementing said new techniques can easily dominate a guy who has this knowledge.

I think Hall has the right idea though. Working submissions off your back isn’t the way to go in a sport in which a guy cutting down to your weight class with immense power is reigning blows down on you. Fighters should be actively looking to sweep, and it’s easy to look down the list of UFC fights we’ve seen where this isn’t accomplished.

Some of the things we’ve seen lately surprise me though. Mayhem Miller’s rolling escapes on Miller’s back control and mount escapes were seamless and done very quickly. Why hasn’t that been done more often? Is Shields just that shitty at maintaining control?

Well, the issue is that Hall isn’t trying to revolutionize anything. The entire piece is about simplicity and basics, key fundamentals based on physics. No crackhead control, no flying toeholds. Pass, mount, choke. That’s it. He references Roger Gracie as an example of what fundamental, clean jiu-jitsu can do.

I mean, he gave up the inverted for a modified single to get on top. That’s getting back to the roots in some crucial respects, not inventing anything new.

If you’re going to critique the idea, you have to read what he said first. In totality. Then make an opinion.

Yeah, I wondered about some of the flying submissions at ADCC this year. Seems like when you get to that level, you’re less likely to expect someone to pull out a flashy/risky move. The more parity there is in a given sport, the more high risk moves, trick plays, etc. become a good idea. When faced with an evenly matched opponent, doing the unexpected becomes a much better idea.

There’s almost never a “best” style of play – even in South Korea’s StarCraft tourneys, there’s an ebb and flow to it.

Horrible guard due to no flexibility: Farthammer

Actually Nog agrees then? Nog utilized his guard in order to attain top position, exactly what Ryan Hall is saying.

Slamming people when they have you in guard is illegal for a pretty good reason in competition, let’s keep it that way.

I also find it telling that he references Roger’s game. IMO he isn’t saying “the guard as we know it will disappear”, he just doesn’t see the point of the crazy triangle setups that involve going form guard to inverted and back just to hook an arm with a foot.

Roger’s guard is and always will be the fundamental guard, but he actively PULLS guard, gets the sweep, moves to top control, and gets the mount. So Roger’s game directly contradicts Hall’s statement that sweeps are very ineffective at the highest level and that you should just be creating space and standing up. Roger DOES pull subs out of his ass in the guard, and he DOES ge the sweep. He’s just not bothering with some faddish grip or outlandish movement to do it.

go back and watch them again. watch him fight jacare or xande. your memory isnt serving you well here—roger’s game has always been to grip fight, give a foot sweep a try, then go for the guard pull.

are you sure you aren’t thinking of a different gracie?

You have no idea what you are talking about and in the future it would benefit you to know your subject before you pass judgement.

Catch has submissions, tons of submissions. The submissions were called “hooks” and Cach wrestlers skilled in these types of dangerous holds were called “hookers”. In Catch you can win by pinfall, submission or choke-out. Catch is where the term “no holds barred” came from, because, simply put, no hold was illegal. If Catch did not have submissions, how do you explain the huge fued between Catch and Japanese judoka?

History Lesson: Know that move the “kimura” that is a staple in BJJ and MMA? The original name was just a plain old wristlock, or double wristlock, and Masahiko Kimura learned that move from Catch wrestlers. It was so effective, he taught the move to Japanese judoka and when he started beating people with it, more specifically when he beat Helio Gracie, the name “kimura” stuck and then the Gracie’s started using it.

i havent seen this year’s worlds yet, so you might be right. I’m basing this off his game around 2002-2006. I’ve heard that both he and Xande have been trying to bring Judo into their game.

Gracie intended the art to fight from the back?

i think the gracies just felt you needed to know HOW to fight off your back, not to actively go there.

That’s against what Ryan is saying though, set all skill level and other attributes equal and then the guy on top has the advantage.