When Enough is Enough?
Fighters are generally tough people, skilled athletes who in the course of training and competing must become used to taking punishment, gritting their teeth through pain and adversity, and pushing past the mental barriers that result from experiencing physical damage and pain. But the question has been asked a couple of times recently: when is enough, enough? Russ Anber, a commentator for the Canadian version of ESPN, commented on this issue with specific reference to this past weekend's Pacquiao-Cotto fight. His contention: Cotto's corner failed in their duty "to assist, to offer advice and protect their fighter." Here's an excerpt from his comments:
via gulfnews.com
...a blistering left uppercut would for all intent and purposes, put an end to any hopes that Cotto, or his supporters may have had.
From the point on, although valiant and courageous, Cotto would absorb severe punishment at the hands of someone who must now be considered one of history's greatest fighters of all time, pound for pound...
While this fight more than lived up to the hype, everything about this evening was of world class calibre, from the excellence of Pacquiao to the courage of Cotto. However, one thing has remained in my mind since the fight was mercifully stopped by referee Kenny Bayless. How could a fighter, correct that, a star fighter, a world champion fighter like Miguel Cotto have such an inept, and to be honest, uncompassionate and negligent corner?
Hopelessly behind on points, absorbing serious, damaging punishment at the hands of one of the hardest punchers in the game today, Cotto's corner continued to send him out for more of the same. Even when it became evident that Cotto, back peddling and dancing away, was strictly in survival mode. Doing his best to try and survive the vicious onslaught from his faster, more powerful challenger, Cotto was beaten to a bloody mess.
By the end of round nine, the corner should have surrendered for their gallant warrior, by the end of round ten they should have mercifully called over the ref in the same manner Eddie Futch did some 29 years ago, ironically in the Phillipines. By the end of round 11, even the most bloodthirsty would not have allowed Cotto to continue. It is inexplicable that the Cotto corner, which incredibly included his father, could have sent their charge out for round 12. No one watching could believe their eyes, especially referee Kenny Bayless. As the bell sounded, Bayless quickly looked for the one punch which would give him the excuse to step in. At the 55 second mark that punch came and mercifully, Cotto was rescued...
This past Saturday, Miguel Cotto not only needed protection from the savageness of Manny Pacquiao, sadly he needed protection from his own corner.
Perhaps it had already been agreed that decision to stop a fight or not lay ultimately with the Cotto, and we all have no idea what, if anything passed between Cotto and his corner after the 9th, 10th or 11th rounds. Maybe Cotto emphatically told them he did not want the fight stopped; maybe the topic of conversation never came up at all. Regardless, Anber's comments put me in mind of another situation, this one in MMA.
Most of us here probably remember the fight at UFC 102 that put that look of pain on Ed Herman's face. After a hard takedown by Aaron Simpson, it was clear that something bad had happened to Herman's knee. Amazingly he survived to the end of the round; inexplicably, he came back out for the second. After attempting a high kick - the decision to do this raises a whole other set of questions - Herman immediately collapsed to the ground in pain with a serious injury to his knee.
In both cases, the argument can be made that the corner did not do their duty to protect their fighter because they allowed them to sustain punishment - and in the case of Herman, a serious knee injury that will keep him out of action and out of earning pay cheques for quite a while - that was unnecessary. Anber makes the point that no one honestly believed that Cotto was going to beat Pacquiao after the 9th round. I'll go out on a limb and say that no one honestly believed that Ed Herman, after what was clearly a painful injury to his knee, was going to come back and stop Aaron Simpson. In both cases, the evidence stands against a comeback. Cotto was moving backwards, just throwing his hands out and attempting to survive, and actually being hit more and with more power despite his efforts. Herman, while clearly there is less time to look at in the fight to determine a probably outcome, was in the situation of not having suffered just a soft tissue injury, but damaging a joint. In MMA (or any sport, but especially in the contemporary sport of mixed martial arts), an athlete's knee is a vital, fragile piece of the anatomy. There was clearly no way that Herman would be stopping any more of Simpson's takedowns; the injury was going to affect his mobility, his power, and his choice of strikes. In both cases, the fight was essentially over.
This is, I suppose, where the issue of corner responsibility really comes to a head. This is a contentious statement, but one I believe to be true: very, very few fighters can be expected to have the objectivity to quit in a fight in the interest of their long term health. If a fighter is sparing thoughts for their health while they are fighting, then they likely do not have their head in the fight. I have heard it said from fighters before that it is simply impossible to worry about potential - or real - injuries and be successful. Part of the mental training and fortitude required to be a professional fighter at the highest levels is the ability to simple will past pain and injury, to endure, and to find a way to win. However, that inherently means objectivity and the ability to look at the big picture has to rest somewhere else. These are different situations than Randy Couture breaking his arm and then proceeding to finish Gabriel Gonzaga, or St. Pierre damaging his groin and hanging on to beat Thiago Alves. Randy and St. Pierre were both winning their fights decisively; Cotto and Herman were not. Both Couture and St. Pierre's injuries were at least somewhat invisible - clearly they felt pain, but they neither screamed in agony or showed a significant and immediate drop off in performance; Cotto looked like someone had hit him with a shovel, and Herman screamed at the moment of initial injury and could barely walk to his corner afterwards. Were I either Cotto or Herman, I know that I wouldn't have pushed through the damage or injury, but then again, I wouldn't have pushed through those to Couture or GSP either; I am not a fighter and have no idea what the headspace of a professional fighter must be like. I can only infer that the responsibility for choosing to stop a fight must rest with someone else.
The question, though, is how does a corner decide? There is a fine line between showing support and care by stopping a fight and undermining that all-consuming confidence that makes it possible to endure. On the other hand, there is a fine line between showing faith and support and setting a fighter and friend up for serious injury and damage. Given the recent discussions about the long-term impact of the sport on the health of fighters - such as Kid Nate's article - and the much more high-profile discussions about the long term health of professional football and hockey players, it seems almost absurd that there is a safety-valve built into MMA fights that is not being used. Clearly, though, the question is not black and white and I am left wondering what the role of a corner is in protecting a fighter. Fighters today are true athletes: bigger, stronger, faster; and given their profession, that means more likely and able to inflict massive amounts of damage in a shorter period of time. The conversation needs to be had as to how the corner position adapts to this, but as much as we the fans can comment, it is actually the fighters, their trainers, managers and corner people who really need to be talking about it.
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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We as fans have a duty as well, to not attack people for “taking the easy way out” or “quitting”. GSP vs. Penn 2 stands out to me as a good example of a corner doing their job correctly.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Nov 16, 2009 11:22 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
They did say Cotto’s father wanted to end the fight.
Cotto’s wife left the arena after the 9th round.
Fans can some times be full of crap-I’m including myself. All that “true-warrior” crap in football, basketball and/or boxing some times cause serious damage to an athlete long after their careers are over. NBA Hall of Fame player, Patrick Ewing caught a lot of criticism when he decided to nurse his injuries instead of playing hurt during the NBA playoffs and finals. He simply said, he wanted to be able to walk after his career. The NY press ate him up and said he didn’t have the heart of a champion.
That’s the sad state of the sports. It will continue to happen.
Check out my recent MMA drawings on my blog, drop a comment, or subscribe via RSS for updates http://www.scritchandscratch.com/blog/?tag=mma
by VeeisAnimated on Nov 16, 2009 12:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah. The fascination with Spartan-like machoism is kind of everybodys fault. Some fans are better than others in this regard, but we praise and blame in all the wrong instances. I sure am glad sometimes that I’m not a professional athlete.
by ununkvadrium on Nov 17, 2009 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
This is absolutely true.
I thought it was pretty telling that (warning: hockey annecdote) Bobby Clarke used to be of the old-school, “rub some dirt on it and get back out there” line of thought and in his role as head of the Philadelphia Flyers, contributed to destroying Eric Lindros by perpetually questioning his toughness (around head injuries of all things). Now, he’s going on record saying that hockey today is “too violent” and that he wouldn’t want to play today because players are too big, too strong, and hit with too much force. What used to be considered “quitting” could now be considered “avoiding permanent brain trauma”, but for the fans who don’t necessarily receive the licks from the highest level athletes, it’s hard to tell the difference.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
There are so many untold stories that serves as a good example of “enough is enough” but it is only really evident in combat sports. It was not too long ago, many fans questioned Forrest Griffin’s heart after his 3rd and final knock down against Anderson Silva. Please forget the emotional exit from the Octagon for a second . . . I was wondering why some people were saying that he sucked, had no heart, etc.
Enough is Enough: see the football film, Any Given Sunday.
Check out my recent MMA drawings on my blog, drop a comment, or subscribe via RSS for updates http://www.scritchandscratch.com/blog/?tag=mma
by VeeisAnimated on Nov 16, 2009 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
Hey AJB, you’re a lot smarter than me aren’t you?
Keep firing Assholes!
The only thing Fishbob does consistently is dissapoint.
Doubt it; I just ran out of focus before I ran out of energy to write. I was just taking a break from working on some writing for school and felt like throwing together something to do with my OTHER passion. Combat sports don’t come up very often in political theory; if they did, I’d be the happiest kid on the block. But thanks for the compliment.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
Cotto’s corner failed him in more ways than one – watching the fight and hearing what his corner told him… they didn’t give him one piece of useful advice. It sounded as bad as Rampage’s advice during the TUF matches. “Let’s go, let’s go… One more, one more, give me one more…”
Cotto himself wanted to stay there, but I hold his corner responsible for exposing him to unnecessary damage which will affect his short-term future.
by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Nov 17, 2009 12:49 AM EST reply actions
During one break, Joe Santiago told Cotto, “Just look out for his left, it’s all he’s got”. Then Manny knocked him down with a right hook. Terrible.
by steak_knife on Nov 17, 2009 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
word- his corner should have told him to get manny on the ropes (for some reason manny was allowing cotto freely hit him when he was on the ropes) and pound the body/ribs/solar plexes, then work in some upper cut combinations….in the center of the ring cotto should have been poppping his jab and running. Manny would still have won but cotto wouldnt have been beaten up so badly and maybe made it to the cards
Also, think back to Royce/Saku – the family forced Royce to quit because of a broken leg bone, if I’m remembering it properly.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Nov 17, 2009 1:09 AM EST reply actions
Oh man I see this in the gym all the time unfortunately there are a bunch of retarded coaches out there that I guess want to see the people that pay them get hurt
Worse – there are coaches/trainers who expect people to pay them for actively going out and hurting them. Some guys really do think that it’s essential to bully and hurt beginners to “weed out the weak ones”.
by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Nov 17, 2009 9:21 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t want to speculate, but I’m going to, because I find no other explaination for it: perhaps his corner (barring his father) was hoping Cotto would plant and make one last stand for some miracle finish. This still doesn’t mean they aren’t fools.
Cotto has nothing to be ashamed of. He went out and fought with everything he had against one of the greatest of all time, and did a hell of a lot better early on than most have done. All of PR should be proud of him, and I’m pretty sure most are.
He just needs to take some time off, find himself an elite trainer (his boy Santiago can stay in his corner, he just shouldn’t be the top guy) and come back and whip Shane Mosley’s ass again.
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.




















