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Scoring UFC 105's Randy Couture vs Brandon Vera

Mike Chiappetta takes a stab at it and comes away scratching his head and wondering what fight the judges were watching:

Vera stopped most of Couture's takedowns. He landed the only damaging blows of the fight. He knocked Couture down. He earned a takedown of his own and moved to the full mount.

Aside from an early clinch flurry in the third, Couture's main offense consisted of closing the distance, holding Vera against the cage, and searching for a way to take him down. As executing game plans go, you can't say he was successful in doing anything but slowing Vera down. You can say he dictated the tempo. You can say slowed the pace. You can't say he hurt or even rattled Vera.

The critique focuses on the first and third rounds:

The judges scored the first round for Couture. I'd just like to know why? Couture spent almost the entire round in a futile clinch (4:34 of the round, according to FanHouse's unofficial count). He finally took Vera down, but couldn't even hold him there for 10 seconds. He didn't land a single power strike in the round. What did he do to win the round?

FanHouse unofficially counted the landed strikes as 7-7. Couture's takedown was nullified by Vera's rapid escape. Neither man could get any real offense started, and it should have been a 10-10 round. Couture supporters will object, saying he exhibited "octagon control," but failed takedowns do not constitute any type of control, and neither do they deserve a reward.

...

FanHouse unofficially gave Couture an 11-10 advantage in strikes in the third, but Vera the edge in power punching, scoring the most significant blow of the round with a knee to the body. And this time, it was Vera getting the takedown. So here's my biggest issue with the decision: If the judges gave Couture the close first round because of a takedown as the decisive factor, shouldn't the close third have gone into Vera's column for the same reason?

I have to agree with Chiappetta here. In UFC 104's Machida vs Shogun fight, at least the judges were able to present a coherent argument for why they scored the fight the way they did: Machida won the first three rounds based on the premise that shots to the head outweigh shots to the legs and body.

In this fight, the judges apparently gave Couture the first round based on one premise -- that a take down scores points -- and yet refused to give Vera the third round on that same premise.

I'm not too worked up about Vera losing this decision though. It will hopefully be a wake up call for him. He has had a manifest reluctance to pull the trigger and go for the kill since his return from holding out a year in a contract dispute. He had a chance in the second round to get the definitive finish of Couture and he chose instead to follow Randy to the ground and let Couture recover. And throughout the fight, rather than keeping the fight at kickboxing range where he was winning handily, Vera elected to start clinch battles with Randy Couture, the king of the clinch fight.

It's too bad that Couture won such a lame decision though. It's going to be hard to justify giving him a title shot based on that performance.

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I think Chiapetta didn’t really take a stab at watching the third round at all, based on what he said up there.

by Michael Rome on Nov 15, 2009 12:53 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Just to follow up a second. It’s not as much that I disagree with what he wrote as much as he made no real effort to go over what actually happened in the third round. A lot more happened for both guys, and if you’re going to do a post based on scoring being wrong, you should really make an effort to cover everything.

by Michael Rome on Nov 15, 2009 1:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It will hopefully be a wake up call for him.

How many wakeup calls does he get? How many does he need? When do we just start viewing him as the type of fighter who has a ton of potential but is perpetually less than the sum of his independent parts?

"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."

by AJB on Nov 15, 2009 12:53 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

agreed

by cagefightonacid on Nov 15, 2009 2:03 PM EST via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Your last question

For me, quite some time ago.

by brad23 on Nov 15, 2009 3:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Imagine the UF had yellow cards

by Meshuggeth on Nov 15, 2009 1:00 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

OMG yeah! And they could yellow card Wanderlei Silva every fight for no reason whatsoever. Just like Pride!

Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Nov 15, 2009 2:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

PRIDE was on bad economic times, lol.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Nov 15, 2009 2:23 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I agree

With everything you said as usual Brent. Vera’s takedown meant nothing, even less than nothing really because he had a dominant position (full mount) that was rapidly reversed and nullified by Randy.

"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"

by dedstrk316 on Nov 15, 2009 1:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree. Unless the decisions is blatantly blown everyone should keep the complaining to a minimum. Judging is subjective and therefore is inherently open to this sort of thing. I prefer to look at it this way for both couture/vera and even machida/rua: did anyone really “win” the fight?

"I want to tell me what you see, let's go ahead and see by the fight what you saw, in the ring"

by crinow on Nov 15, 2009 2:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

In the third I’d say Couture’s inside boxing was very effective and Vera’s takedown really means nothing if he was unable to do anything with it. It was a clear Randy round to me.

Completely agree. Everyone is forgetting that Randy fucking busted up Vera for most of that round with inside boxing.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Nov 15, 2009 2:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

if someone would tell me where the damage by Randy occurred in the 1st round I would appreciate it. A couple minor knees and short punches was the extent of his damage. At least Brandon had the opening kick and punch as well as knees in the clinch. This is why the current 10 pt must kills me. A round with almost no damage done by a fighter (but still somehow gets the nod) is scored exactly the same as a round were a fighter damages 10, 20 ,30, or even 40% more than his opponent. In a 12 rounder it all comes out in the wash but not 3 round fights. I hope people who defend the current scoring will system will acknowledge that a DRAW is a far more accurate score for the first round than either figther winning 10-9.
     

by naturalist on Nov 15, 2009 3:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

completely disagree

I think that opening flurry was more damaging than any damage Randy was able to inflict in the clinch. He’d be leaning up against him on the cage, the ref would break, and then he’d go right back to it. He was landing nothing but short arm punches with little behind them and a few knees to the body.

by KrmtDfrog on Nov 15, 2009 4:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure why...

or how people think Vera won. Coutore had Vera’s back against the cage for 12 minutes out of a 15 minute fight. Sure, Vera’s kickboxing was good when he actually used it but the fight took place in Randy’s world for the majority of time. If there is such a discrepancy between two things the fight is judged on then then the fight will be judged accordingly . Randy used the clinch to dictate where the fight took place (think of it as standing lay and pray) and that was exactly what I thought he would do, but I definitely thought he would get some takedowns. In fact,I think people should be giving props to Vera for his takedown defense.

by Shatto1 on Nov 15, 2009 4:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

“Dictating where the ‘fight’ takes place” isn’t enough to win you a round.

Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Nov 15, 2009 4:46 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Under unified rules it has.

It seems odd, but I try to think about like this: If someone’s whole game is based on hitting you and you make sure they can never hit you or submit you while doing the one thing you do (smothering inside-striking) that doesn’t count as a win?

I personally prefer PRIDE judging criteria too, so don’t take that as a snarky remark.

Effort to finish the fight by KO or submission would completely revolutionize the game for a lot of guys. But I wonder if it penalizes the practical skill of wrestlers who in the real world would be able to kill or cripple you with a takedown on the ground. That’s the only reason I can think of for the current criteria which seemingly favors wrestlers.

by asa on Nov 16, 2009 9:03 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Totally off-topic PS

Are you one of the Fagan’s from Strangers With Candy?

by asa on Nov 16, 2009 9:04 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Randy gets a free bonus point from the judges for being Randy.

"an excellent example of why most MMA "journalism" is a joke. Pseudonyms like "toxic" and shitty writing like that dopey article"--- Joe Rogan.

by toxic on Nov 15, 2009 1:05 PM EST reply actions   2 recs

“It’s going to be hard to justify giving him a title shot based on that performance.”

you mean as opposed to the other 9 times he’s been given a title shot out of his first 23 fights?

by slantedwindows on Nov 15, 2009 1:18 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Fightmetric had Vera winning it, but a draw with the 10 Point Must System

by The Bronzeville Bully on Nov 15, 2009 1:25 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Draw is about right… no clear winner in this fight.

by mmalogic on Nov 15, 2009 2:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.

I was praying that judges would score a 10-10 round. Neither fighter was effective enough to win.

by pdl on Nov 15, 2009 2:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Sigh..

If Randy was on the other side of a bad/questionable decision, there’d be a much bigger outcry..

People will say I’m biased for saying this, but I honestly think you can make much much more of a case for the lyoto/shogun fight, than this one.. Not a robbery still, but I think it was a worse decision than 104’s..

weoweoweo.deviantart.com -- @antontabuena

Due to the Questionable decision: "The only thing Fishbob does consistently is dissapoint."

by Anton Tabuena on Nov 15, 2009 1:30 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Very true about if it went the other way. Its Randy and so many MMA fans are beyond enamored with him. Coming in Im sure Vera knew that if it was close at all, Randy would win. The guy is a legend and one of the faces of the UFC. Its the same as you have to beat the champion thing. It sucks. Its not fair, but biases impact judging.

by ryanwk628 on Nov 15, 2009 1:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Never mind the decision, UFC should do something with that fucking slippery mat they have inside the octagon. In the first few seconds when Vera was throwing combinations, he slipped before a knee attempt, fell out of the rhythm and wasted opportunity to finish the fight.

by dancingChicken on Nov 15, 2009 1:45 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Cro Cop and Jorge Gurgel mentioned something along the likes of this I believe…

by Koob on Nov 15, 2009 1:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not to mention this little ditch that surrounds the mat where fighters put their feet to prevent a takedown. Shouldn’t it count as “grabbing”?

by dancingChicken on Nov 15, 2009 1:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ugh....

Seriously, it was probably a 29-28 win for Couture. I don’t understand what all the hub-bub is about.

Couture got both rounds for the mere fact that he controlled Vera in the clinch. It was boring to watch, and favortism was OBVIOUSLY shown to Couture’s style of fighting because, as we saw earlier in the night, clinching on the fence without action for more than 30 seconds resulted in breaks. Couture was given two minutes on more than three occasions of inactivity.

Do I care? Not really. Even with that gameplan, Couture won. He controlled Vera, and it’s up to Vera to do something.

In the end, who cares. It’s going to be tough to convince anyone that the performance was impressive, and you are going to have a hard time convincing me that I want to see Randy fight more. Yuck!

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Nov 15, 2009 1:54 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

You never want to see Randy fight again? Not even a couple of super-fights at least w/ some other legends?

for all intents and purposes, just consider all my posts as works of satire.

by Bandaka on Nov 15, 2009 2:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ever again is a bit much. I’d give it one more shot. I’m just not impressed. Clinching Vera to wear him out is great for five rounds, but for three round fights… it makes for these close bouts that noone can really figure out.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Nov 15, 2009 2:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I’m with you, I dont understand why there is such a controversy. It seems like every time there is a close decision people want to cry ROBBERY, that just isn’t the case.

I do have one small issue, you seem to be dogging Randy (it was a boring fight) but this isn’t typical for Couture. The Nog and Lesnar fights were great fights and you can actually go back and look at Gonzaga, and Sylvia (who is known for boring fights). You probably have to go all the way back to Tito or Ricco to try and find a boring fight. It isnt like he has a history of it, I think he deserves some slack. Vera now that is another story…

by andrewsj7 on Nov 15, 2009 2:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The GOnzaga fight was a lot more active IMO. He seemed very slow to do damage.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Nov 15, 2009 2:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That is my point. Randy normally does fight to finish and is rarely boring.

by andrewsj7 on Nov 15, 2009 2:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I thought his dirty boxing was active in round 3.

To me the fight ended up being boring because Vera was able to stuff his takedown attempts and Randy wasn’t going to break off when they failed. Vera lacked the ability to get Randy off him, Randy wasn’t able to take him down…it ended up cancelling each other out.

His last 4 fights have been very entertaining though, I don’t think one stinker is enough reason to never want to see him again.

by Michael Rome on Nov 15, 2009 2:35 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Yep, and there’s not many LHWs with Vera’s takedown defense. I guarantee that Randy puts Shogun on his ass in the same position, whether Randy can get the fight there is the real question.

by rabrown on Nov 15, 2009 5:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I’d like to respectfully take issue with the way that you all are scoring the fight under the unified rules.

The rules state to prioritize the following credentials in descending order of importance:

striking, grappling, control, aggression, and defense.

Using this framework, it’s nearly impossible not to score the first for Randy and the second for Vera. The real deciding factor is how the third round was scored, and whether or not Vera’s blast of strikes that knocked Randy down could account for a 10-8 round in the 2nd.

I write for The Garv.com, and spent quite a bit of time breaking down each round and applying the mechanics to the unified rules here:

http://thegarv.com/mma/dissection-by-dallas-detailed-documentation-of-the-mma-scoring-problem/

I would love any feedback from the Bloody Elbow staff or any SB nation readers on the quality and content of my analysis.

by LeonardWashington on Nov 15, 2009 2:00 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Round 1 went to Randy.
Round 2 to Couture.

Judges gave Round 3 to Couture, and one of the keys to that win… Couture outstruck Vera for most of the round. The kicks were solid lands, but Couture landed a lot of jabs and punches in those exchanges while also controlling. It goes to Couture. 29-28.

I really don’t see the controversy.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Nov 15, 2009 2:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Check that math again?

Randy Couture 30-27 by Leland typo!

by pdl on Nov 15, 2009 2:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL

Typo owns me.

Round 2 to Vera.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Nov 15, 2009 2:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I have two objections to the methodology employed in your analysis.

Firstly, the “total number of strikes” is a criteria equally as absent from the rules as “damage.” The rules specify “effective” striking and “effective” grappling.

The mere number of strikes landed doesn’t really determine anything, though it can often be very telling. Everything rests on the concept of “effectiveness,” and while this is undeniably subjective, there is an additional, critical, tool that must be utilized to reduce the impact of such subjectivity—the 10-10 round.

In your rush to determine who has narrowly won each round you have ignored the draw round. Granted, judges tend to ignore this too (at least in the west), but if you are going to go to the rules you might as well use all of them. Because the rules place emphasis on the effectiveness of technique, rather than the sheer accumulation of points, the draw round is essential to prevent marginal action from determining the winner of a round (and by extension, a bout). When two fighters counteract each other—when a Vera lands a few strong shots and a Couture lands more numerous, weaker shots—it is often impossible to say which was more dominant. In such cases the rules make it plain that a 10-10 round is appropriate.

I think a proper consideration of “effectiveness” as well as a less determinative philosophy regarding rounds would improve your analysis. To that end, I scored round 1 a draw, because neither fighter was particularly effective in comparison to the efforts of their opponent. Vera’s early strikes and Couture’s clinch work were both sporadic and counterbalancing. Couture was unable to secure the takedowns he worked on for most of the round. Vera was unable to get off of the cage, yet Couture was unable to utilize the position.

Round 2 was won by Vera due to the effectiveness of his striking. It wasn’t so effective as to be a 10-8 round (not nearly), but it was easily effective enough, in comparison to the other action during the round to stop the analysis right there.

Round 3 was very close and I could stomach a 10-9 either way—or indeed an additional 10-10 round. However, in my opinion, Vera again won 10-9 due to his more effective striking.

Fighting Area Control

by capital L on Nov 15, 2009 2:46 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Unified Rules aren't Unified

Unfortunately, there is no exact proportion or weight given to these 5 categories. For example, given that Randy “controlled” Vera for 12/15 minutes, does that outweight striking which Vera clearly won? What is aggression?

These five categories need to be clearly defined and given weights. If striking is the most important, is that 50% of the decision or 30%?

What no one is talking about here is that Vera DEFENDED against Couture’s octagon control perfectly. Couture was worthless because Vera canceled out his wrestling strength. Are defense and control equal weights? If so, that would declare the match a draw with striking being the deciding factor. In this case striking would have to go to Vera who delivered the only worthwhile blows.

by b_radical on Nov 16, 2009 2:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The fan favorite almost always wins the close and uneventful rounds… it’s a simple as that.

Adjust your wagering and fight picks accordingly because this has been true in almost every circumstance.

No other criteria has been as consistent as this one in knowing who won a close or uneventful round.

by mmalogic on Nov 15, 2009 2:05 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

That’s a pretty poor conclusion to come to as “fan favorites” may have other shared qualities that help them win close rounds.

Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com

by Mike Fagan on Nov 15, 2009 2:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

nope… whoever the crowd is behind and more specifically whoever the crowd was behind during the walkout. simple as that. You can go through every close round and the only consistent factor was this.

leg kicks matter in one instance and in another they dont… takedowns matter in one and in another they dont… etc, etc…

You can even drill down by judge and the criteria for each close or uneventful round was never consistent except for one thing:

The fan favorite winning.

by mmalogic on Nov 15, 2009 2:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

This is why I say

The judges need to be in rooms backstage with no outside influences and watch the fights on monitors.

"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"

by dedstrk316 on Nov 15, 2009 3:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

more ties, or change the judging

personally I think it’s time for a change. I’d like to see either more times or fights scored on cumulative bases rather than round (with an emphasis on damage)

by cagefightonacid on Nov 15, 2009 2:07 PM EST via mobile reply actions   0 recs

more ties*

by cagefightonacid on Nov 15, 2009 2:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Cecil Peoples

would surely give the first round to Brandon Vera for effective grappling and octagon control

by IpullguardIRL on Nov 15, 2009 2:21 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, but Nelson Hamilton would give round 2 to Randy. Without a reason.

by dancingChicken on Nov 15, 2009 2:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't get it.

Randy bullied Vera for most of the fight. The few times Vera was in control, he never capitalized. Randy’s gameplan was obvious – Vera has become a point-striker, so Randy would close the distance and make it ugly. This is exactly what happened. If Vera couldn’t figure this strategy out and counter it, then his loss.

Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by themachiavellian on Nov 15, 2009 2:45 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Thats crap.

Vera tried to fight his fight, Randy was just very good at closing the distance. Then Randy tried to fight his fight, and Vera was very good at neutralizing his wrestling and boxing. Two talented and well matched competitors.

by pdl on Nov 15, 2009 4:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Vera was way too willing the entire fight to go backward and allowed himself to be put against the cage.

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by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 15, 2009 4:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

My thoughts exactly.

by Hardcase on Nov 15, 2009 4:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

exactly

it was obvious as day that randy would try and put him against the cage for the majority of the fight. vera was unable to a) come up with a gameplan to counter or b) implement the gameplan they came up with to counter the clinch

by milson on Nov 15, 2009 9:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Cry babies

If cutting weight and flying over seas was so easy then everybody would do it. I am tired of hearing people say Randy is boring he didnt do anything. Randy has not cut weight in almost over 3 year (last time was in ’06 his last fight with Chuck) and then flew over seas. Randy is not the guy to make excuses, but I guarantee the weight cut and jet lag had a bunch to do with his performance. Vera on the other hand doesnt seem to have the same killer instinct he once had if he did he would have won by TKO in the 2nd round, but he didnt capitalize when he hurt Randy.

by BAESLINGER on Nov 15, 2009 2:51 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

This fight illustrates what I think is wrong with mma judging.

By the current scoring system, Randy won round 1, but in my ideal scoring world he wouldn’t have.

Yes, he effectively controlled Vera, but that control never lead to anything that could have come close to ending the fight. I wish there was a scoring system that could take that into account.

by Phildo on Nov 15, 2009 2:58 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

If this was scored like Japan, Vera wins easily. But it isn’t. And this thread has revealed a lot of the understanding of how fights are judged. Some people here think you HAVE to damage to actually win a round, and under the current system — it isn’t necessary.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Nov 16, 2009 8:20 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

ATTN: "capital L"

Hey man, thanks for taking the time to read and comment. My CnP’d answer:

Regarding your comment on damage versus “total number of strikes”, the definition of “effective striking” under the unified rules is just that:

“(e) Effective striking is judged by determining the total number of legal heavy strikes landed by a contestant.”

FYI, I have a big issue with the way the unified rules direct the judges to score fights, so because I attempt to interpret them as the rules state does not by any means indicate that I think its the CORRECT method (quite the opposite in fact).

I’m also a huge proponent of more draws in MMA, or at least more occasions of 10-10 rounds. However, the reason I pinpointed the description for 10-10, 10-9, 10-8, and 10-7 rounds is because I think the vague descriptions (mostly for 10-7 and 10-8) cause a snowball effect and cloud the justification for 10-10 and 10-9. Again, I didn’t ignore the draw; I followed the trend that we’ve seen as a standard in MMA judging where it’s rarely awarded (and I definitely didn’t “rush” my analysis"… fucker took me all day!) ;)

I think we also agree that a proper definition of “effectiveness”, and not coincidentally, a proper definition of “total number of legal heavy strikes” needs to be provided, as well as a better definition of 10-8 and 10-7 rounds.

Finally, your point about Couture’s clinch work and Vera’s striking counterbalancing each other should be an impossibility under the rules, as striking and grappling are weighed the most, and clinch work without takedowns only applies to control, aggression, and defense, which are the lowest prioritized categories (although I realize that strikes from the clinch are factored, but only as effective striking).

Either way, thanks again for the intelligent response to my analysis. It’s much appreciated.

by LeonardWashington on Nov 15, 2009 3:11 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

“It’s too bad that Couture won such a lame decision though. It’s going to be hard to justify giving him a title shot based on that performance.”

Haha, no it won’t. The UFC loves giving Randy title shots, He’s already gotten two coming off of losses(the first fight with Chuck and the one against Sylvia he had lost a fight before getting those shots). Wouldn’t be outside the realm of possibility for them to use this win to justify giving Randy a shot at the winner of Lyoto/Shogun II. I’d personally prefer he fought again before that, though.

by Hardcase on Nov 15, 2009 4:01 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I think he’ll fight the Forrest/Tito winner. Then the winner of that one will get a title shot.

I don’t think Randy is opposed to fighting Forrest. Have heard him say multiple times he will fight teammates, he has Dana’s view on it.

by Michael Rome on Nov 15, 2009 4:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I thought it was a robbery until I thought of the fight as a standing version of the Shields/“Mahem” Miller fight from the week before.

Shields-Couture controlled 90% of the action caused very little damage.

 Miller-Vera nullified their opponents and landed almost all meaningful damage.

Just a thought.

by casey manrique on Nov 15, 2009 4:06 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

At this point all I wanna know is when Money May vs Pacman is happening? This is the biggest fight that can happen at this point… everything else is depressing.

Couture is now in the Matt Hughes “hold on for dear life” territory, Tito couldnt beat the best guys of 2 years ago, Forrest is still running, chuck is coming out of his wheel chair, Matt Hughes will be turtle fucking Renzo Gracie for 15 minutes and every other guy is getting sick or injured…

I’ve gone delirious living in the fucking desert for the past 3 months and I want shoot somebody.

by mmalogic on Nov 15, 2009 4:37 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

What desert? What are you doing there then?

weoweoweo.deviantart.com -- @antontabuena

Due to the Questionable decision: "The only thing Fishbob does consistently is dissapoint."

by Anton Tabuena on Nov 15, 2009 6:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Im jerking off camels…

by mmalogic on Nov 15, 2009 7:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

wholeheartedly agree with your analysis of how the fight went nate. I feel a lot of heat should come on the ref rather than Randy for the first round clinch fest. Randy was really inactive in the clinch, no knees, elbows, not even a footstomp and less then relentless takendown attempts. He was content to lean and “score points”, which seemed to be a good strategy if he wanted to win the fight. Vera did a good job defending his takedowns and won the majority of the striking exchanges. Randy’s a smart enough fighter to realize whats working and whats not and play to his strength as best he can. Its the referees job to make sure the fighters stay active and he did a terrible job of it. Im not even sure who that was reffing the main event. What happened with going with your best for the top fight. Randy also didnt have much of answer when Rogan “called him out” as some put it as to the judges viewpont.

by Ozone on Nov 15, 2009 5:28 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I think the first round was a clear 10-9 for Randy.

He held Vera on the cage, controlling his position, for the whole freaking round. Plus he had a takedown.

So, the question is, was Vera’s takedown in the third round enough to overcome Randy’s dominant position throughout the rest of the round?

I scored the fight 29-29 – a draw.

I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.

by Llewdor on Nov 15, 2009 6:20 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Randy’s “dominant position”? Did Randy get Mount? oh wait…

weoweoweo.deviantart.com -- @antontabuena

Due to the Questionable decision: "The only thing Fishbob does consistently is dissapoint."

by Anton Tabuena on Nov 15, 2009 9:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

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