Quote of the Day: Dana White on Quinton "Rampage Jackson, "I'm a Bad Enemy to Have"
by Kid Nate on Nov 15, 2009 7:51 AM EST
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"Something's about to happen there. You know me, we were good friends. When I'm your friend, I'm your best friend on the world. But we're not friends anymore, and when I'm your enemy, I'm a bad enemy to have."
Dana White talking Quinton "Rampage" Jackson, per Dave Meltzer
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Whatever happen to business? Dana takes stuff way too personal.
Firefrankwren.com: It's gonna happen this offseason
No...
this is thuggery
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by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 15, 2009 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
nah, it’s business. a lot of business owners live by this model. best friend until you do something wrong and then worst enemy.
I don’t see how this really is even a conversation, we’ve seen this scenario many times with Dana and it’s always the same discussion of how he’s a thug and then the greatest thing for MMA and then should be removed from the UFC and then fighters should be paid more.
Dana feels slighted because when Rampage went crazy, he went on a media good feeling tour with him to get sympathy. The UFC is in a hole right now and instead of fulfilling an obligation and helping out someone who helped him, Rampage is making a movie. In the end, Rampage will fight in the UFC again and Dana and him will make up.
by Matthew Roth on Nov 15, 2009 11:18 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I also want to add that as we don’t know the details of Rampage’s contract regarding TUF 10/Fight with Rashad, this whole debate is hypothetical. I don’t like talking hypotheticals.
Also Dana isn’t sending hitmen after Rampage. He’ll tie him up in court for as long as it takes to spend all of Rampage’s money on court related fees.
In the end, and I have ZERO contacts within MMA, Rampage will get a deal similar to Tito/Couture and Rampage and Dana will kiss and make up and we’ll focus on this instead of real news like Shane McMahon having business meetings with Zuffa.
by Matthew Roth on Nov 16, 2009 9:12 AM EST up reply actions
I am intimately familiar with the world of business and this is categorically different, at a minimum in its expression and framing.
Welcome to the world of overstating your awareness.
by Luke Thomas on Nov 15, 2009 11:25 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
rec’d for that last line
"In Russia, Hell goes to you!"
by actionbastard on Nov 15, 2009 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
interesting. a comment was deleted.
The path to my fixed purpose is laid with iron rails, whereon my soul is grooved to run. Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering BROCKLESNAR; to the last I grapple with thee.
by judonerd on Nov 15, 2009 8:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Well, Dana didnt do what should have been done over a month ago… This is not “thuggery” – this is what any sane business would have done.
What he said you can argue is “thuggery”… but his kind of talk is childs play.
Everybody’s gripe about Dana is he actually says in public what every other top executive in cut throat industries say and do behind closed doors. Some people appreciate that and some don’t.
by mmalogic on Nov 15, 2009 12:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
My gripe with Dana is that he actually says and does in public what other promoters in shady sports and entertainment industries say and do in public. Maybe if he actually acted like a mature businessman—or for that matter, like the president of any legitimate sports organization—I’d appreciate him more.
Fighting Area Control
This is every top guy in every cut throat business except it happens within closed doors:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAiLw887rss&feature=related
Dana isnt running a multi decade established league like stern from the NBA and his counterparts in other sports. Those guys are just figure heads who didnt do shit in creating the sport.
No....
This …is…SPARTA!!!!!
C’mon, someone had to do it.
"I would approve signing a pitcher that ate kitten tacos if he won 20 games a year." -BPinOK
How on earth is spending energy on harassing Rampage going to help business? That horse has left the gate. Dana has a lot of actual business problems to deal with now, and spending energy on publicly threatening Rampage – even if Rampage “deserves” it on a karma level – is not smart.
Yeah hind site is 20/20.
he should have left Rampage in jail.
nobody is going to clean up quinten "rampage" jackson 5150 when his a-team movie bombs
and his so called hollywood friends get rid of him b/c his one movie did not make money for the hollywood executives. nobody is going to bail him out this time. either jail, prison or the funny farm. rampage, potentially a mike tyson in the making.
yes i am obsessive, obnoxious, in your face and all about covering the spread. those are my good qualities.
by wolfmanshowlforever on Nov 15, 2009 7:19 PM EST up reply actions
Dont bite the hand that feeds you. When Rampage went nuts Dana took care of him. Now when the UFC needs rampage the most he retires. Can’t blame Dana for this.
"Frank Mir had a horseshoe up his ass. I told him a year ago. I pulled it out of him and I beat him over the head with it." Brock Lesnar
by pitbull187 on Nov 15, 2009 8:50 AM EST reply actions 10 recs
Yes you can...
You can blame him for being in public spouting off Mafia-esque “I’m a bad enemy to have” ..etc
If he wants to sue Rampage for something (which I doubt he’d have much of a case unless they paid him up front for fights to come) that’s one thing. But to be out in public making threats? That’s just insanely inappropriate.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 15, 2009 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
Dana is THE “OG”.
“OG” = The Original Gangsta.
by mmalogic on Nov 15, 2009 12:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
regardless of what dana says UFC fighters are dropping like flies. The end of the year looks bleak and Rampage vs Rashad in Memphis is a even bigger fight considering what all has happend. Rampage wanted a fight in Memphis Dana gave it to him. He wanted Rashad dana gave it to him. And now he is making movies retired and the UFC is shit. I can see 100% why dana would be pissed. He did everything Rampage asked but Page didn’t come threw on his end of the deal.
"Frank Mir had a horseshoe up his ass. I told him a year ago. I pulled it out of him and I beat him over the head with it." Brock Lesnar
No your right Brent, he should be out there kissing everyone’s ass. Worked out well for Atenico. They dumped a lot of money to promote him only to have him duck out of what they were trying to build up. MMA needs an aggressive promoter like him to move the sport forward. Don King was crazy as well and did a lot for boxing. Coker cant do it by being very polite. Dana is “mafia-esque” because he needs to be. MMA is still fragile and he keeeps things in line, like it or not.
That's pure shit.
Dana is throwing a fit because he always does business in the public realm rather than behind closed doors, even when it’s wildly inappropriate. Because of that, he created a rivalry, put it on basic cable, announced a climactic fight, booked a home town venue, and never bothered to get bout agreements signed. There’s more to being a promoter than promotion, and he screwed that up. Did Rampage fuck him over a bit? Yeah. But Dana allowed it to happen by not getting a contract signed and relying on good will, which only comes as well as it’s given. Not a good tactic for somebody as fickle as Dana.
Summary: I believe he isn’t as mad at Rampage as he is at himself for not locking things down. Despite that, he’s gonna blame it on Rampage and lash out at him publicly.
Do we know the deals weren't signed?
I was under the impression ’Page walked away from the fight after the deal was done.
"I would approve signing a pitcher that ate kitten tacos if he won 20 games a year." -BPinOK
He felt he didnt have to lock it down because of everything he had done for him. Nobody saw this coming. Rampage said in intervies that he wanted to go on TUF and fight Rashad for a lot more money than if he fought Machida. He wanted to fight in Memphis. Rampage gave every indication that he was willing to fight. You go on TUF and it goes without saying whats gonna happen when the show is over. And he didn’t screw him over a bit, he screwed him over a lot. Dont get mad a Dana for simply getting mad and not hiding it over this. People are quick to get mad at Dana cuz he doesnt kiss and when people think he should. F that! He’s pissed about it and he doesnt care what he says about it. UFC is bigger than Rampage, not the other way around.
You are restating the facts I referenced, but disregarding the conclusion that was made. Here’s the deal. You want a fight to happen? Get the bout agreements signed and make it a contractual obligation. Fighters are not Zuffa employees, they are contractors and being signed to the UFC only prevents them from taking jobs elsewhere, not entitling them (Huerta) or forcing them (Rampage) to fight within the organization. Dana fucked up by promoting and hyping this up when it wasn’t done and done yet. He placed faith in another persons loyalty to him when he himself is notorious for turning on people quickly and publicly. You can’t expect loyalty when it’s clear that yours is heavily conditional. It’s an error on his part, he knows it, and I doubt he’ll repeat it.
To duck: I don’t believe the bout agreements were signed, they just verbally agreed to it which is in no way legally binding. It was never officially announced on ufc.com, which tells me that it never was official.
Don King also got sued by fighter after fighter for unethical business practices, stealing money from his fighters…etc.
No, he does not need to be in public acting like this.
And if you think what MMA needs is a Don King, then you’re not all that familiar with Don King
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by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 15, 2009 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
yeah don king is not what MMA needs right now, and i agree with brent to an extent about the out bursts but at the same time Dana has a legit gripe here. Rampage is a guy who has reaped the full benifits of being pushed by the UFC and has also reaped benifits of Dana considering him a friend. Maybe the out burst came from Rampage claiming he done more for the UFC then the UFC done for him. As i have already stated the fighter treatment that comes to mind when it comes to dana is how he delt with Jon Fitch and the video game shit
this sounds very much like the Tito hatred, but hey, look who’s headlining next weekend! Don’t buy danas publicity stunt, this is him trying to rampage and his temper going
all you gotta do is...
by imapimp08 on Nov 15, 2009 9:06 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I really don’t see the two as similar. The Tito stuff was the two of them insulting each other and generally acting like 12 year olds, but at the end of the day they were making each other giant sacks of cash so it didn’t matter. Here, Quinton is not just having verbal back-and-forths, but is starting to threaten the UFC’s bottom line, which matters a hell of a lot more than wearing a mildly offensive t-shirt at a weigh-in.
50% more Ultimate than the leading competitor.
Well...
Tito being a major draw and leaving would constitute hurting the bottom line as you say rampage is!
Dana saying he will won’t work with a fighter is his same old song and dance, yet everytime he says it, people say, oh it’s different this time, sorry but I don’t buy that he won’t work with rampage EVER again
all you gotta do is...
by imapimp08 on Nov 15, 2009 2:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
how long
did it take Tito to step back into the octagon? The UFC seemed to do fine without him then, they’ll see short term loss and then bounce back bigger and better like they always do. Rampage on the other hand, if the pattern holds true, will be out of the UFC for give or take three years. Will he even be fighting by the time this garbage blows over?
What He Giveth, He Can Taketh Away
for all intents and purposes, just consider all my posts as works of satire.
Unless Rampage’s contract forbade him from remaking 70s tv shows Dana is just doing his usual toughguy front. If Rampage wants to come back the UFC will obviously have him.
Right...
I’m sure soon enough people will start to say incredibly untrue and dumb things like “he has to fight all the fights on his contract.”
I mean, I don’t particularly like Jackson’s actions or anything.
But this is more complex to me than simply “ha! get em dana!” in my eyes the two points here are:
1) if there is a lawsuit coming…what would it be for? I couldn’t imagine the UFC having a case for anything other than if they paid him advance money for fights that haven’t yet happened
2) it is simply inappropriate for a company president to be in public making threats. But I know this point is lost on a lot of people because they simply think he is the tits and can do no wrong.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 15, 2009 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
It's not that I think he can do no wrong...
But what are we supposed to do? Be upset or worried for Rampage? Be surprised that Dana has a vendetta against someone who has OBVIOUSLY left him out to dry (and the damage worsens as more Headliners get injured). An individual that has benefited more from the UFC promotional machine than maybe any other fighter in the last 3 years (2 stints on TUF, Free Title Unification on Spike vs. Henderson, etc) and a guy who had a HUGE breakdown, and had a Friend and Boss in Dana who helped him through all of it.
His threat is obviously not a physical one, nor is it going to be something so drastic that we should be worried about Page’s well being… so what? Dana is IN FACT a BAD ENEMY to have… Business tact and ethics are nice, but I’m more appreciative of Dana being honest about the situation as opposed to being behind the scenes trying to stymie Jackson’s career in other ways…
I might not agree with everything Dana does, but he’s a grown man who says what he wants… and this, to ME, Page doesn’t deserve a pass…
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
what I meant to say is...
this to Me, isn’t that big of a deal, or surprising… and I don’t think Rampage deserves a pass….
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
it’s the difference between simply being a grown man and being a representative of his sport/promotion. It isn’t the worst thing in the world but I wish he wouldn’t pull this shit.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Nov 15, 2009 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
An individual that has benefited more from the UFC promotional machine than maybe any other fighter in the last 3 years (2 stints on TUF, Free Title Unification on Spike vs. Henderson, etc) and a guy who had a HUGE breakdown, and had a Friend and Boss in Dana who helped him through all of it.
Wait. So Dana’s OK to be threatening Rampage because he’s a cold hearted businessman, and that’s what businessmen do, but on the other hand he helped Rampage out of the goodness of his heart and gave him all these opportunities?
If he gave him these chances, its because Rampage was good for business. Rampage has raised his profile off Dana, but Dana’s made a lot of money off of page
Dana has made a lot of money off a lot of people..
what difference does that make? Dana and Rampage have mutually done things that benefited one another because of their relationship (UFC’s handling of Quinton’s Rampage, Quinton taking a fight with Jardine to main event a card that had none)…. Just because they also mutually benefit does not equate to everything being solely a business decision, and void of emotions. IMO Dana has done more to raise Rampage’s profile, than Page has done for the UFC regardless, and Dana obviously feels slighted by an individual he feels he has been a good boss, and friend to. It would be hard to dispute either of those things before Page’s decision to skip out on an agreement for another opportunity. It was easy to say “Oh, this won’t hurt the UFC too much” a couple months ago, but as we see, the UFC is in desperate need of a headliner right now.
My point is that they both do things out of emotion, good and bad… Dana and Page should deal with things differently, but thats asking them both to be different people… I’m sure Dana isn’t in Vegas hoping Quinton is scared for his life, etc… They’re having an argument, and each one is taking jabs at the other via the “media”.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
I disagree wih the "do no wrong"
In this case i see dana’s point. This is a dude who went nuts, had a high speed chaise and went to jail. Dana could have threw him under the bus and fired him as he did junie but no he dident do that. Dana flew out found out the story and made a public anouncement that he and the UFC back up rampage fuly which is a wonderfu thing that dana did not have to do. To me a better example of a dana injustice is the Jon Fitch firing, that was uncalled for and dana was a fool for firing such a great addition to any promotion.
If point 1 is right Rampage has the world’s worst lawyer, maybe he borrowed him from Randy?
Point 2 is unfortunately debatable. The demographic that likes MMA most also thinks a 40 year old man talking shit about professional fighters is cool. It’s childish, but so is a lot of their audience.
I don’t get why he says this now, it seemed like he didn’t take the retirement seriously and wished him luck on his box office bomb. Rampage’s language has continued to be indecisive about his future but this movie failing will force his hand.
I think this is a desperation play to get a good main event fight to lessen the current dry spell. It might work too, Rampage is a lot of things but smart isn’t one of them.
Dana's not a fighter, right?
In that case: fuck him. I don’t care if he acts like a dipshit as part of some calculated publicity stunt, or he really is a fucking child…but I hope a fighter pulls a Brett Hart on him.
BOOSH
Dana is finally realizing BFF’s in this business doesnt mean shit and that 90% of the people Dana thinks are “good friends” wouldnt give a rats ass about him or Zuffa if there was no money involved.
All I’m trying to figure out is why, between two adults, no one could be diplomatic in this situation. Dana could have just pushed the fight back, he could have kept his mouth shut, he could have not insulted Jackson personally. But he chose to do all those things against common sense and decency. A buisnessman know what battles to pick and Dana runs around like Little Napoleon trying to stomp on any and everyone in his path. I’m just guessing that Dana wishes he had a fighter that could main event 108 right now.
Firefrankwren.com: It's gonna happen this offseason
Well presumably Rampage signed a bout agreement to fight Rashad. By ‘retiring’ to make his movie he’s now in breach of that contract. The UFC had devoted a season of TUF and time on previous pay per views to promoting that fight so the UFC has sunk costs with respect to that fight. The UFC would certainly have a duty to mitigate its damages but there is a good argument that they could sue Rampage for damages resulting from breach of contract.
I’m just going to speculate that Rampage whom is concerned with feeding his family doesn’t have mllions sitting around to pay off Zuffa and to litigate with them so that likely means he’ll find himself ‘unretiring’ and at the very least fulfilling the bout he signed.
against gegard but after that? no thanks
by cagefightonacid on Nov 15, 2009 2:01 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
hmmm… yeah, that’d be cool too. haha if hendo is even w/ strikeforce
by cagefightonacid on Nov 15, 2009 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
Dana blaming his poor business skills on Rampage
Yeah, I said it. Let me ask you something. If the UFC was really banking on Evans vs. Rampage, using TUF as a tool to hype/sell that fight…. WHY WAS THE COACHING GIG NOT A PACKAGE DEAL WITH THE FIGHT?! Dana is really just blowing smoke because legally he has ZERO recourse against Rampage because Rampage didn’t sign anything obligating him to fight. If it’s such a major deal why on Earth would you leave something like that to chance. Sign a contract that says you host the show and you guys fight on this date. NO outside projects, you can only get out of it due to injury or some kind of family emergency. $10 says that’s how they’ll work it from here on out.
Also, to show just how much Dana could have done to avoid this I’ll put this out there. Rampage is very clear that he was up for this role and told Dana. Dana poo poo’d it as per usual. But, if your guy is legally obligated and can’t take the role he wants, here’s an idea. Set aside some cash… $50K. Tell your friends in Hollywood, which you know full well Dana has plenty, and tell them my guy wants this role, but can’t take it. But I’ll tell you what… you hear about some good projects be sure to send that over to my guys team so they can run it down and he has some opportunities waiting on him after the fight. Even if your desire for him to succeed is hollow at least now he feels like you want him to and that goes a long way.
Dana has no problem with “Big Stick” side of the equation. Maybe if he could figure out the whole “Walk Softly” side he might stop shooting himself in the foot then shoving said foot in his his mouth.
Wait a second, what?
How is Dana supposed to force ‘Page to fight? Even if a contract was signed, he pretty much has zero remedy here. Courts definitely aren’t going to order specific performance, and expectation damages would be hard to prove (even if he could get them, which he probably couldn’t). Signing a contract (even if it is legally binding, which isn’t clear here) doesn’t mean you can force the other party to follow it.
Dana could also try the tactic of tying Rampage up in court, ala Randy, but even that probably wouldn’t be worth it, as the case would probably be weaker (since Randy wanted to fight and Rampage is acting), and further it could end up delaying the fight even more than it already is, something Dana obviously doesn’t want to do.
You’ve also got to factor in the major added cost of litigation. It might be worth it to keep one of your biggest stars from fighting in a rival promotion, but would it be cost-effective to run up a huge legal bill just to keep a fighter from acting and force him to fight earlier (rather than later)? I’m not so sure.
/resume lurking
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