Joe Rogan clarifies his twitter post about Fedor

by banter on Nov 10, 2009 9:42 PM EST Comment 21 comments

via the UG

I made a short twitter message about the Fedor Rogers fight, and I got a lot of feedback from it, so I thought I should elaborate when I got some free time.
What I said in the message was that I thought Fedor got exposed a bit.
What was going through my mind after the fight before I wrote that tweet, was that I was surprised that Rogers was able to easily reverse Fedor, despite the fact that he's not a very experienced grappler. The conventional wisdom was that if Fedor could get the fight to the ground he would be able to finish it quickly, but obviously that wasn't the case.
Rogers wasn't able to hold Fedor down and only landed a few clean shots, but I couldn't help wonder what Lesnar would have been able to do with that position.

I think part of Rogers' success there lays in that he's very powerful and athletic, and also that he's just such a huge guy. At 230lbs I absolutely believe that Fedor is the very best in the world, but at 265 I'm not sure if that weight difference is not too much of a disadvantage. For sure he's one of the top 3 pound for pound fighters in the world, and determining who is number 1 is really just a matter of opinion and speculation. The truly amazing thing about Fedor is that he has gone through his career as a heavyweight undefeated except for one cut, yet he could easily fight at 205 or possibly even at 185 if he really wanted to get crazy. That just shows you what a special fighter he is.
At heavyweight when guys like Lesnar or Rogers get up as big as 265 at the weigh in and maybe 20lbs over that during fight time I really wonder if these gigantic super athletic guys with better grappling like Brock might be able to exploit that size advantage where Rogers couldn't.

I've always been, and continue to be a huge fan of Fedor. I love his style, I love his no frills approach to training, and I love his emotionless approach to combat.
Objectively though, I think there are some exploitable holes in his striking that we saw a little in the Arlovski fight, and the size disadvantage he has against the best big men might be a big problem if they were to meet as well.
He's not perfect, but he sure is fun as hell to watch.

read the rest here

Here is the original twitter

As for the fedor fight, I thought it was very interesting, but I thought Rogers hesitated, and I felt like Fedor got exposed a bit

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Yep, those were my thoughts after the fight. If Fedor dropped down, I think he would have trouble against more technical strikers with good ground games. Anderson Silva especially would light him up on the feet and probably survive on the ground.

On the other side of the coin, guys like Brock Lesnar would just be too big for Fedor to handle. Where Rogers was huffing and puffing, Lesnar would still be coming forward like a beast the entire fight and wouldn’t lose dominant positions.

But Joe is right, outside of those special kinds of fighters, Fedor is going to do pretty well.

by Razzel on Nov 10, 2009 10:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I agree with you

Oh the Brock analysis for the most part. However I think you and quite a few other people overrate Anderson Silvas ground game. Anderson would light Fedor up on the feet but I can’t help but think once it hit the ground within minutes Anderson would be tapping like a type writer.

And we have not seen how Brock responds to advercity yet. I would like to see how Brock would react to get whacked in the jaw by one of those big right hands.

by SamAdkins on Nov 12, 2009 4:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If I’m to simplify things a little, I’d say that we’ve seen Brock taste “adversity” on two occassions:

1: In the wrestling against Randy. Although he wasn’t outmatched in any way, he still had problems dominating him.

2: In the stand up against Mir. He was clearly uncomfortable in the 2nd round.

Here’s the simplifying bit; in the first case he reacted by knocking his opponent out, in the second he reacted by taking him down and controlling him to a TKO.

And, obviously, if he took a shot like the one Brett took, he’d go to sleep. But everybody knows this. It’s the supergirl-kung-fu-flurry that would be interesting to see how he’d handle.

by ununkvadrium on Nov 12, 2009 8:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i agree with you but the gameplan for lesnar would be strictly to take fedor down. push him up

against the cage and start the ground and pound. when fedor knocked out b. rogers he did it in the middle of the cage. no different than in the “middle” of a boxing ring. keep fedor against the cage and lesnar wins.

by wolfmanshowlforever on Nov 13, 2009 8:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Much better explanation by Rogan

and I agree on pretty much all points. Good to see that Joe wasn’t just towing the company line

Supporting all Las Vegas MMA. Xtreme Couture FTMFW.

'09 is the year of the FW's.

by ElliotMatheny on Nov 10, 2009 10:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

yep. i also agree with pretty much all what he said..

but still, he wasn’t “exposed”.. haha :)

weoweoweo .deviantart .com -- @antontabuena

by Anton Tabuena on Nov 10, 2009 11:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Something tells me Joe won't tow a line for anyone.

by Riney on Nov 11, 2009 5:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Toeing

You toe the line.

I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.

by Llewdor on Nov 12, 2009 3:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Replace exposed with “some light has been directed to some grey areas of fedor as a fighter” and it starts to make sense, i had the feeling after the fight a good positional wrestler near the weight limit with elbows on the ground would be a lot of work for fedor… also i think andersons movement would exploit the defensive holes in frodo’s striking and light him up…

by Beren on Nov 11, 2009 12:31 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

some light has been directed to some grey areas of fedor as a fighter

I think that would go over the 140 limit =)

"That feeling after you win and they raise your hand... it's like you have this energy that releases from your body, and it's like you mingle with the cosmos, and you feel omnipotent"

by woomikee on Nov 11, 2009 10:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t see what the big fuss was about in the first place. He didn’t say that Fedor was completely exposed, he only said that he thought Fedor was exposed A BIT. Yet, everyone who quoted him used only the “Fedor was exposed” part.

by NinjaCodah on Nov 11, 2009 11:52 AM EST reply actions 1 recs

What was going through my mind after the fight before I wrote that tweet, was that I was surprised that Rogers was able to easily reverse Fedor, despite the fact that he’s not a very experienced grappler. The conventional wisdom was that if Fedor could get the fight to the ground he would be able to finish it quickly, but obviously that wasn’t the case.

Why not interpret this not as Fedor being “exposed,” but as Rogers showing that he has more of a ground game than we all expected? In the absence of more evidence, I don’t think there’s any reason to favor one explanation over the other.

Ranking MMA

by JRN on Nov 11, 2009 12:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Fedor wasn’t exposed, if you have a guy the size and weight of rogers, you would be exposed too, unless it’s a one punch knock out 15 seconds in

"On the sixth day god created man,but on the fifth day man created god" - Todd White on The Book Of Lucifer:
The Enlightenment

by Krawchuck on Nov 11, 2009 1:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Well, put, Joe.
I believe there def should be a super heavyweight weight class. When you have guys that don’t cut and are 230-240 that is a hell of a cut down to 205, and a 230 pound man fighting a fast, athletic man like Brock who is 6+ pounds of muscle heavier isn’t really a fair fight in my view. I mean, it would be like a welterweight at 175 fighting a light heavyweight…sure GSP could beat, say, Forrest Griffin, but not likely.

by mightyhokie on Nov 11, 2009 1:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

mad tiger – Fedor @185? lmao Are you HIGH??? …no wait dont answer that.

If he was a weight cutter like Franklin he could most certainly make 185 in my opinion. If Anthony Johnson can make 170, and he walks around sometimes as high as 220, I could certainly see a relatively fat 230lb Fedor making a cut down to 185. He could easily lose 30lbs of fat, making him a lean 200, and then slowly diet down and dehydrate for the remaining 10. It would suck, but it could be done. Many guys in the UFC have cut more.

I like the fact that Fedor fights all fat, though. It’s a good lesson for the American public that’s obsessed with looks and the perfect image. To have a fat, balding sloppy looking dude just going in there stone faced and wrecking shit is cool as fuck.

by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Nov 11, 2009 1:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

i wonder how fedor looks like if he lost a lot of fat and competed at 205.

imagining how he’d look at 185 is just scary..

weoweoweo .deviantart .com -- @antontabuena

by Anton Tabuena on Nov 11, 2009 4:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

by kovy on Nov 11, 2009 4:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I didn’t think Fedor got reversed so much as he was willing to give up top position to try to finish the kimura.

I think it’s more like Fedor got surprised that Roger’s wasn’t epically terrible on the ground

by IpullguardIRL on Nov 11, 2009 2:14 PM EST reply actions 2 recs

I very much agree , it was the sub attempt that made Fedor lose position , but kudos to Rogers on the sweep (not the first time Fedor is swept tho , Nog swept him too once) . Then after the sub attempt Fedor underestimated (at least imo) Rogers’ power and exposed himself to get an armbar. I think in retrospect Fedor would have held on to Rogers untill they are stood up or untill he finds another opening. Rogan is right , doing that against Lesnar and missing the armbar is VERY dangerous (tho I’m not yet sure Lesnar hits harder than Rogers).
But all the Lesnar talk is tiring , that fight ain’t a happening soon.
Oh and I think Fedor kills Overeem

by JoelMan on Nov 11, 2009 4:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If I had to wager a guess...

he hits harder. His top control is definately better and he could pin a 230lb Fedor and smash his face. If Brock doesn’t give up a limb he wins by TKO or GSP style decision.

by B Money on Nov 12, 2009 2:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

really?

i would LOVE to see Ubereem and Fedor fight for the HW title. I would love it even more if Fedor won, but i dont see it happening. Similar to what Joe said about the giant super athletes, Fedor might be overwhelmed by the size and ahtleticism (not to mention technical ability) of Ubereem. But i believe your point is valid

by bluejitz on Nov 12, 2009 5:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs