Two sides of the coin: Fedor
by mightyhokie on Nov 10, 2009 11:19 AM EST
28 comments
I live in ACC country. I'm a Virgina Tech fan. When we play UNC it always seems that Ttyler Hansbrough has some lucky-ass last second shot to beat us. Matter of fact, he does it with Duke, FSU, Wake, etc. It seems that he has last second shots to win the game 20 times a season. It dawned on me last year after he did it to us again: if you do it once, it is luck, if you do it twice, it is luck, if you do it 15 times...is it luck or is it skill?
Fedor begs one to ask the same question.
The biggest slam on Fedor (no pun intended) is that he hasn't really fought great competition. At least not top notch competition. The toughest opponent he's ever face (in my opinion) is Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira. Everyone else was either at a bad point in their career (Sylvia, Arlovski), not really super great to begin with (Coleman, Randellman, Lindland), or just outright silly (Hong Man Choi). With the exception of Sylvia, Nogueira, and Arlovski, anyone Fedor has fought that was in the UFC would be considered 'mid-card' guys at best. The rest couldn't even make it through TUF.
So while Saturday night's even introduced the US casual MMA viewer to Fedor, it doesn't answer some of the questions the more knowledgeable, hard core fans have about the man. In the pre-fight hype Frank Shamrock made the statement that "Fedor is the best in the world but the guy he is facing is the second best in the world". Now I'm not going to fault Shamrock for selling the fight, but he knows, you know, and I know that Brett Rogers, who I have a lot of respect for now, is NOT the second best heavyweight fighter in the world. He isn't even the 10th.
When Fedor came out, got his nose broken with the first punch, got knocked down, pummeled, then came back in the second round and threw one of the 'right on the button' punches we seen him throw before (although Arlovski didn't see it, hehe) to knock Rogers out, was it the 'worlds best fighter doing what he does' or was it 'damn, he got lucky again'?
The one thing I felt I knew after that fight on Saturday night was this: Brock Lesnar would destroy Fedor. Hell, I'd have to be on Randy Coutour still beating him. The top 5 fighters in the UFC would probably beat him. Certainly Lesnar would. But there is that little bug behind my ear asking "or would Fedor weather the storm then knock Brock out 20 seconds into the second round?". Like I said, when a man makes a lucky shot 20 times...it isn't luck. I can't imagine Fedor would do that great in the UFC and it is probably better he is in Strikeforce, then again...
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How would Randy Couture beat Fedor?
by ufc4 on Nov 10, 2009 11:33 AM EST via mobile reply actions 2 recs
Ive been saying it for a few days now…Fedor has NEVER fought one of the big heavyweights who has a complete game…Both Mark Hunt, Fedor, and Choi ended up on top of him at some point..I think that Brock, Cain,and Overeem would be able to keep him there..
I disagree with Randy being able to do it ….Too old too slow too weak..
Also, I feel that Rogers is only slightly better than Rothwell (in that he hits harder)
by DamnSevern on Nov 10, 2009 11:41 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
You forgot Cro Cop (Pride version).
by MMAInFeRioRiTy on Nov 10, 2009 11:47 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Oops, sorry about Cro Cop. Oversight.
I think that Randy could/would beat him by pushing him to the cage and thugging him. Now, I’m not trying to say that would happen I’m just trying to say that until I watched the fights Sat night (UFC Couture v Nogueira, as well as Fedor v Rogers) I would have not thought Randy would have a chance. I guess what I mean is that Randy has a better than average chance. I could be wrong, and maybe it is just wishful thinking, but Couture looked really competitive, Fedor looked a little lucky.
That being said, if Overeem has sense (not convinced of that, actually), he’ll come and fight Fedor as soon as he can. He can def beat Fedor. I like Fedor, i like him a lot. But I am not sure he is the greatest fighter ever.
by mightyhokie on Nov 10, 2009 12:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
fedor is weak when he is against the cage
anybody can see that and now that the top ufc fighters see it they would exploit that weakness. some of them eventually will be let go from ufc. i would not be surprised if dana left one go just to sign with strikeforce to get a matchup with fedor to see if that fighter could beat them. fedor is not coming to ufc but maybe if lesnar, carwin or valasquez lost you think they would send any of them strikeforces way and would they sign him? just something to think about.
by wolfmanshowlforever on Nov 10, 2009 1:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I’m sure the UFC is going to drop Lesnar as soon as he loses.
by Ahhhoki on Nov 10, 2009 2:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fedor was calm against the cage..
Rogers had 5" and at least 35lbs on Fedor. That’s a Big Boi. He just waited for Rogers to settle in and created space to push Rogers away. Lesnar knows how to use his enormous size when grappling/wrestling, that’s the difference in some of the opposition out there, Lesnar’s size.
by fedorade on Nov 10, 2009 4:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he was calm b/c rogers was not trying to punch him
the ref warned rogers at least twice to keep his fingers out of the cage to keep fedor in place but he did nothing. i guess he could not figure out to do both things. keep him up against the cage and then punish him. any other big time fighter is going to do the same thing but will unleash a barrage of puinches and knees. i don’t think brock will have that problem. so we agree on that.
by wolfmanshowlforever on Nov 10, 2009 5:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, exactly. If you’re opponent has you against the fence but isn’t doing much of anything to you, why not hang out and catch your breath? Why bother to do anything that might create an opening? Fedor eventually just went for a trip takedown to get Rogers off him anyway.
If Rogers was scoring with uppercuts or knees to the body or head against the cage, or if he actually trapped Fedor against the fence on the fence on the ground rather than having Fedor escape within seconds, I could understand this “Fedor is weak in the cage” talk. As it is, I don’t think there’s any basis for it.
by JRN on Nov 10, 2009 10:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess what I mean is that Randy has a better than average chance. I could be wrong, and maybe it is just wishful thinking, but Couture looked really competitive, Fedor looked a little lucky.
Couture got dropped multiple times against Nogueira, who has always been known as a weak puncher. That doesn’t inspire any confidence as to Couture’s hypothetical chances.
by JRN on Nov 10, 2009 10:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Never seen such a collection of poorly thought-out opinions.
All I’m going to say on the matter is that Brock Lesnar got subbed in his first fight against Mir, and self-admittedly got rocked by him in the second bout. He beat Heath Herring and Randy Couture convincingly. But there is nothing in these accomplishments over stylistically inferior opponents (compared to Emelianenko) that would indicate to me that Brock would win that fight. Lesnar has shown many weaknesses and many fans are quick to dismiss them because he hasn’t lost since he got subbed. Fedor has the tools, as well as the mental game, to both submit and knock out Brock Lesnar. I don’t think the champion is any better of a striker than Brett Rogers and his submissions aren’t even worthy of comparison to Fedor. Nevermind the fact that wrestling plays right into the Sambo game – not that Fedor can’t be held down by a wrestler because I’m sure he could.
It’s not that I’m partial to Fedor – though I might be. He has weaknesses as well; I thought he was in trouble against Rogers. Maybe I’m naive but I believe him when he says he wasn’t in trouble (short of some sort of cut stoppage) and to me that makes his victory that much more impressive. I think there’s a reason Fedor hasn’t lost yet – even Anderson Silva lost to guys like Daiju Takase and Ryo Chonan. Some people will cite excuses and dismiss them as flukes, but the fact remains that if somebody hasn’t “fluked” Fedor this far into his career, I think he has it in him to remain unbeaten for 3-4 more years.
I do, however, doubt his chances against Alistair. It wouldn’t even matter if the fight was in the US or Japan. The bout could go either way of course, but I’m not sure that Fedor has the explosiveness these days to get such a huge monster to the ground. And Overeem is one guy that I’m pretty sure Fedor cannot knock out (although Emelianenko would have a distinct advantage after the first and second round).
by Ahhhoki on Nov 10, 2009 2:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I like how I started that with “All I’m going to say on the matter…”
by Ahhhoki on Nov 10, 2009 2:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
if renato sobral can go ten minutes with fedor i think lesnar can do some
serious damage to fedor’s 40 year old “looking” battered body. if brett rogers (who is a strong man) can get him to the cage. brock lesnar (who is a very strong man) would easily get him up against the cage and then take him down. rogers messed up by letting fedor go to the middle of the ring. he should of let loose with a barrage of punches and knees and it could have been a different outcome. your joking about the 3-4 years? chuck liddell knockout overeem pre -steroids. he might be bigger but he ain’t smarter. peace out
by wolfmanshowlforever on Nov 10, 2009 4:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
different rules, different sport
The path to my fixed purpose is laid with iron rails, whereon my soul is grooved to run. Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering BROCKLESNAR; to the last I grapple with thee.
by judonerd on Nov 10, 2009 6:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well fedor lost to a bulgarian guy about one year ago in a sambo tournament.
can’t remember his name but i’m sure somebody knows it here. he might have been romanian. fedor’s main background is sambo so he got beat at his own game. does not show on mma record but he did lose. peace out.
by wolfmanshowlforever on Nov 10, 2009 9:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
cool story bro
The path to my fixed purpose is laid with iron rails, whereon my soul is grooved to run. Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering BROCKLESNAR; to the last I grapple with thee.
by judonerd on Nov 10, 2009 9:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
not sure if you are being sarcastic with "story" line
but you can look it up anywhere.
by wolfmanshowlforever on Nov 10, 2009 9:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There are so many fighters that “would destroy Fedor.”
Andrei Arlovski was once on that list and he was considered a top UFC heavyweight.
Do you realize that Noguiera just recently beat the same Randy that you claim would beat Fedor?
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by VeeisAnimated on Nov 10, 2009 2:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
To be fair, styles make fights. Fedor is tailor made to beat Nog. I think his wins over CroCop and AA are more impressive.
by VegasBatman on Nov 10, 2009 2:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
YEah. I believe at this point in his career after facing many bjj experts, wrestlers, strikers, big fighters, etc. Fedor just have the style to beat Fighter A, B or C.
A = Arlovski
B = Brock Lesnar
C = Carwin
I’m sure they can all beat Fedor or would possibly destroy Fedor but none of the above have accomplished what Fedor has in MMA. 31 – 1 – 1
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by VeeisAnimated on Nov 10, 2009 6:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Without a doubt Fedor is the heavy favorite against every other fighter on earth. I think BJJ or large strikers are the best match ups for Fedor style wise, where wrestlers with a modicum of sub defense would be the worst.
by VegasBatman on Nov 10, 2009 9:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Great Post! Can anyone really disagree with this?
The biggest slam on Fedor (no pun intended) is that he hasn’t really fought great competition. At least not top notch competition. The toughest opponent he’s ever face (in my opinion) is Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira. Everyone else was either at a bad point in their career (Sylvia, Arlovski), not really super great to begin with (Coleman, Randellman, Lindland), or just outright silly (Hong Man Choi). With the exception of Sylvia, Nogueira, and Arlovski, anyone Fedor has fought that was in the UFC would be considered ‘mid-card’ guys at best. The rest couldn’t even make it through TUF.
by AfroSamurai on Nov 10, 2009 9:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yes, in numerous ways, one of which I commented on below.
by JRN on Nov 10, 2009 10:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The rest couldn’t even make it through TUF.
I feel very comfortable asserting that almost every one of the fighters you’re talking about—Sylvia, Coleman, Randleman, and Lindland (not HMC since he couldn’t cut to 265)—would tear through the current season of TUF. Definitely at the time Fedor fought them, and probably today, too.
by JRN on Nov 10, 2009 10:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
lol ok well besides that TUF part
by AfroSamurai on Nov 10, 2009 11:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How about this: it’s ridiculous to enshrine Andrei Arlovski as one of Fedor’s legit opponents and dismiss Tim Sylvia, when Sylvia beat Arlovski two of the three times they fought, and at that point had only lost since to what we seem to all agree is elite competition—Randy Couture and Minotauro Nogueira.
Sure, anytime you lose two in a row, you’re in a “bad part of your career.” But it doesn’t reflect all that poorly on your skills to lose to those two. That’s why they’re elite: they beat other elite fighters.
by JRN on Nov 10, 2009 11:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know how Arlovski was “enshrined” with any of the above statements but i personally won’t place him above any Sylvia. Although i do think that Arlovski post Freddie Roach was a very different Arlovski that faced Tim Sylvia, it doesn’t change the fact that he was at a low point in his career.
When you lose two in a row it does reflect poorly on your skills for losing those two, which is why most fighters look to add or take away something in their game after two consecutive losses. Sure they still have the potential to remain elite but after a few losses a fighter goes from elite to mid tier.
Which is why i still agree that Nog is probably the biggest and most valid test of Fedors career…
by AfroSamurai on Nov 11, 2009 12:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I made a mistake in my reading of the post—for some reason, I thought was implicitly placing Arlovski above Sylvia. In my limited defense, a lot of people do do this.
Sure they still have the potential to remain elite but after a few losses a fighter goes from elite to mid tier.
IMO, the number of elite-level losses a top-level fighter has to endure to slip to mid-tier is more than two, especially when one of the two losses is to the 2nd greatest heavyweight in the sport’s young history.
by JRN on Nov 11, 2009 12:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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