Jake Shields' Win Creates New Problem for Strikeforce
by Leland Roling on Nov 10, 2009 2:51 PM EST
in News
141 comments
Jake Shields is in one of the most unique situations a fighter can be in following his Strikeforce Middleweight championship title victory over Jason "Mayhem" Miller on Saturday night at Strikeforce: Fedor vs. Rogers. While he doesn't actually hold two titles at the same time, a feat only obtained by former PRIDE welterweight and middleweight champion Dan Henderson, Shields is currently Strikeforce's best welterweight fighter on paper while also holding the belt at middleweight. Interestingly enough, Shields holds the belt at his unnatural weight mostly due to the fact that he stepped up in weight to help Strikeforce promoter Scott Coker fill a need for a quality bout.
There is now a more evident problem with the current situation within Strikeforce's welterweight and middleweight divisions. Shields is now a title holder in a weight class that isn't his ideal weight, and he's considered by most fans to be a fairly undersized middleweight fighter. His performance against the lankier and bigger Jason "Mayhem" Miller wasn't an impressive performance by any means, and the road at 185 pounds only gets tougher if Strikeforce legitimately matches Shields up against high-level talent.
Miller's escapes from the constant flow of transitions to full mount was impressive, but Shields' inability to put any power into his gloves when in a dominating position was the bigger surprise. We knew Shields wasn't a heavy-handed crusher on the feet or in the ground striking department, but his inability to damage Miller was underwhelming. Shields grappled his way to victory in an unpleasing fashion, but the performance didn't inspire confidence in fans that Shields could run the table of challengers at 185 pounds.
Shields is a natural welterweight fighter, and his reign at 185 pounds likely won't last long. With contenders like Matt Lindland and Ronaldo "Jacare" Souza possibly being in the mix for a shot at Shields' new hardware, it isn't looking like Shields' streak of wins will continue for much longer. Furthermore, his performance probably didn't put a whole lot of confidence in creating those match-ups since both Lindland and Souza are ground specialists. Lindland could easily come in much heavier, and his wrestling experience could smother the BJJ grappler. Souza, on the other hand, offers superior jiu-jitsu abilities along with some solid power, an attribute that is a direct benefit from the added weight.
Unfortunately, Strikeforce's welterweight roster is lacking. Marius Zaromskis has been signed to a deal with Strikeforce, and DREAM might float Hayato "Mach" Sakurai to Strikeforce for a bout with Shields. Shields stands a solid chance of defeating both fighters as both men would rather strike than grapple, but Sakurai is well past his prime and Zaromskis is only one fight.
What are the options? Shields is in a strange dilemma. At middleweight, there are more options that are better for helping Shields win impressively in the middle of the division. He could submit guys like Scott Smith, Joey Villasenor, Robbie Lawler, and Frank Shamrock, but now he's the champion. He'll have to contend with fighters who could beat him badly in Matt Lindland and Ronaldo Souza. On the other hand, he could take the one major fight Strikeforce has for him at welterweight in Marius Zaromskis, which isn't exactly a pushover fight. If he wins, then what? He's a champion in two divisions at the same time with nobody to really fight but middleweights.
I imagine Jake Shields is getting a bit tired of moving up in weight, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if we see Shields in the free agent market in talks with the UFC following his contract completion. He'll likely be jockeying for fights in which he can impressively finish in order to gain momentum with the casual fanbase as well as give him more bargaining power when it comes to contract talks. Lindland and Souza don't give him that, so it'll be interesting to see who Shields wants to fight versus who Coker actually matches him up with in the future. Cung Le is obviously a fight that both Coker and Shields want, but I am under the impression that Shields is right -- Cung isn't interested because he probably thinks a loss right now will hurt his movie career, and Shields will submit Cung if it goes to the floor. Regardless of my opinion, the fight needs to happen.
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Lindland won’t win over Sheilds. but Jacare might (will) be able to out grapple him.
If i was him, (and if Diaz isn’t doing it also) I’d gun for the WW title instead.. the glory of holding two belts at the same time is too good to pass..
Heiron vs Sheilds for the title? then faces Zaromskis in a Champ vs Champ battle.. That’s what i’d like. :)
by Anton Tabuena on Nov 10, 2009 2:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I like heiron/shields winner fighting zaromskis!
by cagefightonacid on Nov 10, 2009 2:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree with Lindland over Shields. shields puts lindland in no danger standing and Lindland will control where the fight takes place. As long as he didn’t do something stupid like take shields down, which he might.
by szucconi on Nov 10, 2009 2:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i'd believe that, but it's almost 2010..
He’s almost 40, and he hasn’t beaten a high caliber guy in years..
by Anton Tabuena on Nov 10, 2009 10:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dan vs Jake
unless dan fights gegard… or if he signs with the ufc… god Dan, what the hell is going on?!
by cagefightonacid on Nov 10, 2009 2:12 PM EST via mobile reply actions 0 recs
shields should move back down to ww. thats his natural weight class, he was pretty much “forced” to go up to mw after SF aquired Elite and din’t have anyone at 170 for shields to fight. as mentioned, heiron, mach, zaromiskis and maybe over time tyrone woodley. those are very good ww’s and he shouldn’t be expected to fight dan henderson. i would love to see le/shields and agree that le probably won’t step into the cage with someone who he know’s isn’t going to stand and trade with him.
by bdw on Nov 10, 2009 2:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I hear strikeforce’s plan for the next CBS main event is:
Jake Shields vs Matt Lindland
“The Turtle Fuck of the Century”
by mmalogic on Nov 10, 2009 2:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
No, this would be a good fight. Your joke doesn’t play well. Its like a Sherk/Griffin fight. There -—— skills cancels eachother out and it becomes a different type of fight all together. That and Shields could never hit the switch on Lindland’s chin.
by szucconi on Nov 10, 2009 2:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I did like the “Turtle Fuck” terminology though. Might wanna save it and use it again later since this joke didn’t pan out.
I love me some Sexyama!
by pud333 on Nov 10, 2009 3:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I should’ve went with Jacare instead of lindland.
by mmalogic on Nov 10, 2009 3:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No, because Jacare will kill him. Save it for Shamrock – Shields.
by nottheface on Nov 10, 2009 3:35 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
It's a good fight, if
you like sloppy kickboxing
by The Bronzeville Bully on Nov 10, 2009 4:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
False, it will be Lindland trying to impose his will. Like stuffing takedowns and clinching. No stuff outside the range of an elbow. Or Lindland could try a takedown, and get it, and the chess game is on. Lindland hangs limbs. And he hits harder then a wet noodle. But kickboxing? I think not. When have you seen Lindland kick?
by szucconi on Nov 10, 2009 4:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
All I know is that if Henderson does sign with Strikeforce then Shields better hope he can vacate the middleweight title because Henderson would destroy him. I also think that if he fights at light-heavy that Gegard fight would be incredibly exciting and Henderson takes that fight in my opinion NOW because of his wrestling experience and tough chin, but give Gegard a couple more years to truly round out his skills and gain more experience…he eventually becomes one of the best to ever walk in a cage.
by Chadsac on Nov 10, 2009 2:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Henderson will likely stay at 205 if he signs. They need him more there and he prefers to fight there.
Shields will be fine. If he gets Cung Le at MW he will be happy. If he doesn’t and has to fight Jacare/Lindland, he really has nothing to lose because he can say he was too small for MW all along. Losing to MW won’t hurt his status at WW and will give him an excuse to move back down and possibly test the UFC waters.
"It would appear that the strain was more than he could bear".- Doc Holliday
by MyFistYourFace on Nov 10, 2009 2:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
For those complaining about Shields vs Miller, they should go watch GSP vs Alves.
Shields has always been dogged by the UFC an everyone else for being a boring fighter, though he finishes most of his opponents. Though that fight may have not been everyone’s cup of tea, it was definitely entertaining for those that appreciate the ground game. We saw a slam, suplex, an almost RNC, and some great TD’s by Shields. Shields obviously needs to evolve as a better well rounded fighter, but, every time he is doubted, he proves everyone wrong and wins.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Nov 10, 2009 2:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I love Shields and enjoyed that fight
But if you’re comparing what GSP managed to do to Alves to what Shields did to Miller, you’re high as a kite.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Nov 10, 2009 2:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The complains coming in from the fans are the same. GSP is able to use his wrestling and keep the fighters down. DO people not recall anymore?
by MMASuPreMaCy on Nov 10, 2009 2:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
D00D
You’ve got nothing here. I’m not even going to bother arguing it— it’s just silly.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Nov 10, 2009 2:44 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
Its silly? I heard PLENTY of times people complain that all GSP does now is take down their opponents and get the UD. Fitch and others get the same complaints. I am putting Shields up there with that type of fighter.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Nov 10, 2009 2:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wear and Tear™
This is a new and viable fighting strategy (and the t-shirts will be in stores near you!).
GSP, Cain, etc… utilize this strategy very well.
The problem with Jake the other night was he couldn’t do enough of the “wearing” so there was no “tearing”. Simple as that.
by mmalogic on Nov 10, 2009 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A very fine line you walk with this strategy.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Nov 10, 2009 2:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not fine at all
Rothwell and Alves took a lot of damage. Compare their faces afterwards to what Miller’s looked like. The difference is that where one used their wrestling to keep them down, damage was actually done. Shields didn’t do any damage to Miller.
by MMAWrestling on Nov 10, 2009 3:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly the point I was gonna make. My problem with the fight was that once Shields got Mayhem down he wasn’t active or looked to punish Mayhem at all. When GSP or Cain take someone down they absolutely control them but they also look to be active and inflict punishment on their opponent.
by Chadsac on Nov 10, 2009 3:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Of course, not disagreeing with that, but if damage is all Shields needs to do to make him not be labeled a “boring” fighter, than he doesn’t have much more to learn, based on Cain or GSP’s “take down and punish” standards.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Nov 10, 2009 3:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If damage is ALL Shields needs to do?
I think it’s time to adandon this argument. Maybe you should start fighting professionally, too, since all you have to do is damage someone. I think Cain was a worse example because he hasn’t been very damaging, but he’s been far more aggressive than Shields was. Shields seemed to almost conserve energy at many points, perhaps fearful that he might fatigue in a five round fight (that was my theory, anyway). In any case, you can’t somehow create a parallel to GSP dominating the gigantic Thiago Alves, especially in the wake of comments about how no one can take him down in camp and that GSP wouldn’t score a single takedown (soucre- your guy, Mo). Shields didn’t do enough to impress and GSP mashed up Alves with a severe injury for most of his bout. How you can compare these two things is, well, sort of obvious based on your history. But come onnnnnnnnnn…
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Nov 10, 2009 3:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just replying to this:
Rothwell and Alves took a lot of damage. Compare their faces afterwards to what Miller’s looked like. The difference is that where one used their wrestling to keep them down, damage was actually done. Shields didn’t do any damage to Miller.
Oh, and Shields uses punches to set up submissions and better positioning, like BJJ uses punches. He doesn’t use punches to create damage and stop a fight. That is the one big difference people don’t seem to understand. Different strategies, that’s all.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Nov 10, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Different strategies, one people like and one people find boring.
You should stop digging now, comparing Shields to any of this people will get you nowhere.
by Phildo on Nov 10, 2009 3:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
phildo'wnd
"he's the best punchy face man in the buisness"
by blubber_guard on Nov 10, 2009 6:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He failed to set anything up other then his devastating cuddle. What is frustrating is he has good subs, but forgot them or something.
by szucconi on Nov 10, 2009 3:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Right, because Mayhem is known for being submitted like he was when he fought GSP and Jacare…oh wait. =)
I guess Jacare lost his BJJ cred when he couldn’t sub Mayhem?
by MMASuPreMaCy on Nov 10, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Shields did a lot of stalling, thats all I am saying. He had position and held it rather then advance. He won, clearly. But disappointed me as a fan. I like watching him grapple. Its his end game that he threw out the window. It’s not so much that he didn’t sub Mayhem, its that didn’t try. He was content to stall.
by szucconi on Nov 10, 2009 4:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He actually did try, and if you look at the video, everytime he did Mayhem, would stand up or avoid the sub. This is a compliment to Mayhem more than a negative against Shields, is all I am saying.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Nov 10, 2009 4:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree. I do compliment Mayhem for getting the f up. That is an underrated skill. He didn’t look at the ref like, “please stand us up Mr. Ref”. I hate the bs.
by szucconi on Nov 10, 2009 4:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I JUST rewatched the shields/mayhem fight. His punches on the ground had nothing, NOTHING on them. They wre for the judges only while Shields held onto his positions like a pretty pretty princess.
I saw no attempts bt shields to end that fight. Meanwhile, everyone that steps in the cage with GSP comes out of it with rearranged faces and broken spirits.
The path to my fixed purpose is laid with iron rails, whereon my soul is grooved to run. Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering BROCKLESNAR; to the last I grapple with thee.
by judonerd on Nov 10, 2009 4:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Because they are used to set up subs and better position. Watch some Gracie BJJ vids and you will see what he is trying to do.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Nov 10, 2009 4:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Even though it isn’t as simply as your suggestion, let’s ignore that and consider the endgame—
GSP did what he does successfully, and Shields did not obtain a submission. So… What were you arguing again?
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Nov 10, 2009 4:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
GSP obviously couldn’t sub Mayhem either, but he has a much better striking/GnP game than Shields so he went ahead with that strategy, hence the difference against someone who is difficult to be subbed. Strategies are the same, its just that GSP has a few more options at the moment than Shields.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Nov 10, 2009 4:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Correct
So your initial argument has dissolved. You seemed to be saying that if Shields wanted to, he could GNP his way to victory much like GSP did. That’s just not true. I loved his fight and I love Shields, but I’m not as fickle as most of the people that tuned in that night. A lot of people didn’t jive with his methodical pace and lack of aggression.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Nov 10, 2009 4:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m a blue belt at Gracie Barra. Fuck those videos.
The path to my fixed purpose is laid with iron rails, whereon my soul is grooved to run. Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering BROCKLESNAR; to the last I grapple with thee.
by judonerd on Nov 10, 2009 4:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not a fan of Rorion turning our art into a bunch of mail-order tapes. His school allows people to study BJJ at home—alone, no supervision—and mail in for their belt promotion—WTMFF?!
The path to my fixed purpose is laid with iron rails, whereon my soul is grooved to run. Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering BROCKLESNAR; to the last I grapple with thee.
by judonerd on Nov 10, 2009 4:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL!
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Nov 10, 2009 4:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I get your point, I just was really disappointed with how content Shields was to stay in the dominant position and not be active. I kind of think that Mayhem’s ability to not be stopped played with Shield’s head and he didn’t even want to try to submit or ground him out in fear off losing that position. For example, the closing seconds of round 3.
by Chadsac on Nov 10, 2009 4:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yup, when Shields tried a sub or to better his position, Mayhem would get up or reverse it. He obviously didn’t want to stand with Miller, hence the dilemma. Its a unique challenge that Mayhem presents to his opponent. You pretty much have to beat him until he can’t move anymore, or he will keep coming at you.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Nov 10, 2009 4:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I concede
Fedor and Pat Berry are also exactly the same.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Nov 10, 2009 3:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry. Shields and GSP are not the same type of fighter. Not by a long shot.
I love me some Sexyama!
by pud333 on Nov 10, 2009 3:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone else catch the Carona on the table before a hand yanked it, It was strategically placed behind the fort of bottled water.
by szucconi on Nov 10, 2009 3:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not really.
The complaint I have is that Shields didn’t exhibit power in his strikes. GSP does. Shields controlling positions are fine by me.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Nov 10, 2009 3:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Shields looked pathetic when in mount. He needs to stay at WW.
I love me some Sexyama!
by pud333 on Nov 10, 2009 3:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Then if all people cared about was power and damage done on the mount, you would think that Shields should not that that far off to accomplish that. The problem here is, that Shields uses punches to set up submissions and positions, not to inflict damage and finish a fight.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Nov 10, 2009 3:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How can you jump to that conclusion?
Like every fighter is capable of being a fierce GNP practitioner? Where do you come up with this stuff? Shields is a great fighter, but he’s shown no signs of becoming a GNP ace.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Nov 10, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Right
I mean, why would a guy try to use punches to inflict damange and finish a fight? It makes no sense.
by ufc4 on Nov 10, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe because he is setting up some subs instead? This is exactly what Maia does as well.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Nov 10, 2009 3:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How the hell should you be considered a finisher when your main attack is bear hugging legs for an entire round? No GnP, no strikes save a few for the judges to see with no power on them at all. Just humping.
I’m a fan of BJJ and understand it better than any of the striking arts and train in it twice a week, and I can esily say that SHIELDS is boring as fuck.
The path to my fixed purpose is laid with iron rails, whereon my soul is grooved to run. Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering BROCKLESNAR; to the last I grapple with thee.
by judonerd on Nov 10, 2009 4:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
If Maia or Leites fought Mayhem, the fight would most likely look very similar. Its a learning curb for them.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Nov 10, 2009 4:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
mayhem would make maia
look like he was from ac/dc
not ad/cc
"he's the best punchy face man in the buisness"
by blubber_guard on Nov 10, 2009 6:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maia is another guy that can't GNP
They have that in common. Are you trying to tell me that fighters don’t want to soften someone up too much?
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Nov 10, 2009 4:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just saying they have strong BJJ roots, so it will take a while to incorporate striking on the feet and on the ground to become well rounded.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Nov 10, 2009 4:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maia DOES strike on the ground. He finished his very first fight with GnP. He just hasnt needed to since then because he is a finisher.
The path to my fixed purpose is laid with iron rails, whereon my soul is grooved to run. Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering BROCKLESNAR; to the last I grapple with thee.
by judonerd on Nov 10, 2009 4:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
both Maia and Shields do throw pretty weak arm punches when standing up.
It’s really sad that think there is still a pretty big deference in the punches other than that they are just arm punches.
Maia’s punches are thrown to damage a set distance that is very small. Since most opponents do know how to move even a little bit. They are ineffective in standup. On the ground where they both are very good at controlling distances Maia can range his punches.
Shields punches just never have any power at any point.
Fedor in contrast has a power range is some times measured in feet, not fractions of an inch.
by natyong on Nov 10, 2009 5:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
GSP vs. Alves? Did you happen to see Alves’ face after that fight? He got beat like a red headed step child. He stood in and was game for that fight. GSP didn’t stall the way Shields seemed to when he got great position. And thats the key, Shields got a great position and stopped. Everything in getting to the position was gold. Love the transitions. Like the blue balls of grappling.
by szucconi on Nov 10, 2009 2:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He got beat like a red headed step child.
A little nugget of gold.
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Nov 11, 2009 10:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s a shitty comparison- GSP actually hot Alves. Did you see his face afterwards? Miller looked like he just did 20 minutes on a treadmill. Alves looked like he got beat up.
by ufc4 on Nov 10, 2009 2:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
are u serious?!
alves was visibly damaged and beaten, miller didn’t… alves also didn’t have gsp in a rnc as the bell saved him. that being said, I really enjoyed both fights!
by cagefightonacid on Nov 10, 2009 3:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Are we just assuming that Nick Diaz is never fighting for Strikeforce again?
by madiq on Nov 10, 2009 2:39 PM EST via mobile reply actions 0 recs
Non-applicable
They’re like the bestest of friends and have trained together for years. Sort of why they swapped places there..
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Nov 10, 2009 2:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I Don't Know About You Guys, but PLENTY of Good Fights at SF
Oh, and why no mention of Hieron?
Strikeforce WW’s:
Nick Diaz (WW & MW)
Jake Shields (MW & WW)
Jay Hieron
Marius Zaromskis
Andre Galvao
Jesse Taylo
Joe Riggs
Duane Ludwig
Tyron Woodley
Shamar Bailey
Roger Bowling
Mach Sakurai (via DREAM)
Strikeforce MW’s:
Cung Le
Robbie Lawler
Jake Shields (MW & WW)
Jacare
Kazuo Misaki
Matt Lindland
Mayhem Miller
Nick Diaz (MW & WW)
Frank Shamrock
Scott Smith
Benji Radach
Joey Villasenor
Tim Kennedy
Paul Bradley
by MMASuPreMaCy on Nov 10, 2009 2:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
No one is discussing the merits of these divisions
The whole premise of this article is who Shields can or will fight next. Close your roster .doc file, Sup..
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Nov 10, 2009 2:45 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Huh
The point is that there are plenty of good fights for him.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Nov 10, 2009 2:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So you seriously think joe riggs is a good fight for him?
by MMAWrestling on Nov 10, 2009 2:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Riggs vs Gracie Fight Camp has a heck of a background story to sell.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Nov 10, 2009 2:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And a background story makes a good fight?
by MMAWrestling on Nov 10, 2009 2:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Calm down mang..
You’re spiraling out of control again. Riggs vs Shields would be a terrible fight at this point. Riggs vs Diaz would make much more sense, since they’re concerned about putting him high on a card and there’s history there. Could be his way back into their good graces.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Nov 10, 2009 3:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
3/4 of those fights are terrible fights or unwarranted.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Nov 10, 2009 3:05 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Rubbish!
Scott Smith
Benji Radach
Joey Villasenor
Tim Kennedy
Paul Bradley
= murderers row
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Nov 11, 2009 10:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That fight has nothing on the long awaited Shields vs Bowling matchup.
by Phildo on Nov 10, 2009 3:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t you mean the highly anticipated Shields/Browning matchup?
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Nov 10, 2009 3:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m sure some people are looking forward to that one, but not as many as waiting for the Roger Bowling match. Supremacy is my source, so don’t doubt me.
by Phildo on Nov 10, 2009 3:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Grumble, grumble, grumble
If that’s a point, you certainly didn’t make it above. Maybe highlight the guys you’re currently referencing. Fuckin Joey Villasenor? PPV pleez.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Nov 10, 2009 3:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
Nick Diaz (WW & MW) – Won’t happen
Jake Shields (MW & WW)
Jay Hieron – Maybe
Marius Zaromskis – Yes
Andre Galvao – He needs to get some wins
Jesse Taylor – Just got straight clowned and won me huge money, thanks Luke Rockhold.
Joe Riggs – Not going to make a title run.
Duane Ludwig – Where is he at?
Tyron Woodley – In a long time
Shamar Bailey – No
Roger Bowling – New
Mach Sakurai (via DREAM) – Not compelling
So, Hieron, Zaromskis, and Galvao with Zaromskis being the only immediate option. Hieron isn’t a bad choice, but he’d get beaten.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Nov 10, 2009 3:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Throwing in Galvao is generous
That fight is a lonnnnnng way from being marketable, though I love Galvao’s upside.
So, essentially, what you said from the outset. Yeah..
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Nov 10, 2009 3:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
For sure, it’s a long ways off. So is Woodley. Sakurai would get clowned today, he’s way past his prime.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Nov 10, 2009 3:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sad face @ Mach
I totally agree. They’ve got some really great prospects at WW, but very few options for the forseeable future against Shields. In fact, they seem to have that problem across the board, save for heavyweight.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Nov 10, 2009 3:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I actually like the Hieron fight best.
by mmalogic on Nov 10, 2009 3:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
let’s not forget, Nick Diaz status is still up in the air.
by The Bronzeville Bully on Nov 10, 2009 3:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Idk, I think anybody with good takedown and submission defense got a shot against Shields
by The Bronzeville Bully on Nov 10, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If everyone is upset at what kind of a fight Shields v Mayhem was…imagine what Shields v Taylor would look like.
by Chadsac on Nov 10, 2009 3:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would hope it would look like a triangle choke.
by szucconi on Nov 10, 2009 4:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
lol again :-)
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Nov 11, 2009 10:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sakurai may not be compelling to you, but it would definitely be compelling to a ton of fans.
Jess Taylor lost at MW, but at WW, his loss to Luke shouldn’t hold too much weight.
Also, why are people writing of Hieron? Hieron could easily beat Shields. He has the take down defense, wrestling, and striking to do it. I don’t see how people couldn’t be intrigued by that matchup.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Nov 10, 2009 4:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Stop trying to add a compelling storyline where there isn’t one. Sakurai is a terrible idea in my mind, and most casual fans wouldn’t know who he was or give a crap. Hardcore fans wouldn’t be that interested in it either.
Jess Taylor is far from interesting, and his loss to Luke does hold weight. He got completely dominated from the start to the finish.
Hieron is a good opponent.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Nov 10, 2009 4:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Are we conveniently ignoring that in his fight prior to Rockhold, he lost at WW to Hieron?
by pdl on Nov 10, 2009 6:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hieron is a really good WW. Should the #1 contender for SF.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Nov 10, 2009 9:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cung Le – Yes
Robbie Lawler – Already Beat
Jake Shields (MW & WW)
Jacare – Yes
Kazuo Misaki – Probably not
Matt Lindland – Yes
Mayhem Miller – Just beat
Nick Diaz (MW & WW) Nope
Frank Shamrock – Beatdown
Scott Smith – Nope
Benji Radach – Nope
Joey Villasenor – Nope
Tim Kennedy – Few more wins, I kind of like this one.
Paul Bradley – Nope
Unless he loses the MW title and fights pure entertianment fights to finish opponents, he’ll need to fight top middleweights. Not too many fights there.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Nov 10, 2009 3:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You forgot Manhoef on a Dream cross promotion card.
by nottheface on Nov 10, 2009 3:40 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Manhoef isn’t fighting Shields.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Nov 10, 2009 4:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why do you always resort to listing every fighter under contract?
You can type Lindland and Shamrock all you want, it won’t get me excited to watch them fight.
by Riney on Nov 10, 2009 3:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Shields is going to move to the UFC.
I’m pretty sure of it. The first chance he gets, he’s gonna make a play for the UFC. Back when EliteXC collapsed, that’s all he was talking about when he tried to get out of his contract. I realize the situation is different now than it was back then, but I still think Shields wants to be in the UFC.
I love me some Sexyama!
by pud333 on Nov 10, 2009 3:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
You know--
I was actually going to inquire about how many fights he has remaining. To my knowledge, he has one, but it may be two. Anyone know? Leland?
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Nov 10, 2009 3:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn’t Strikeforce have a championship clause in their contracts now?
Just BE.
by mattman73 on Nov 10, 2009 3:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good question. I know Coker mentioned they’d be tweaking some things, especially in light of the whole Overeem situation… If they don’t have a clause, and if Jake is still WW and MW champ by the end of his contract, that would be a pretty still loss to SF. Then the UFC would have all the top WW’s.
I love me some Sexyama!
by pud333 on Nov 10, 2009 3:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
nobody signs that shit… it’s mostly used as a negotiating tactic.
Fighters Manager: “we want this and this”
Strikeforce: “Well we cant give you that but what we can do is we’ll take out the champions clause and in addition we’ll also let you fight in japan so instead of fighting 3 times a year you can conceivably fight 5-6 times, how does that sound”? .
by mmalogic on Nov 10, 2009 3:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They're non-exclusive, anyway
So can they really even try to apply it? Even if it’s only domestically, it just doesn’t seem to make much sense.. It’d be awfully easy for someone to Overeem it and hold their title hostage if they want out.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Nov 10, 2009 3:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They’re starting to try and get exclusive because they realize it makes things a lot easier.
by Phildo on Nov 10, 2009 3:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, when I was 18 I started to try and date exclusively 5’9" or taller blondes with C cups who weighed 125 pounds or less but that didn’t work out either.
by ufc4 on Nov 10, 2009 3:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I mean they first start out with everything in the contract but then they negotiate most of the things away in order to sign them. Simply matching Zuffa’s offer isnt good enough – so even though they would love to sign exclusive contracts they still cant.
If they dont start with all of that then they really have nothing to negotiate with.
The problem for them is no matter what kind of contract they get they are fucked.
Name guys either want open contracts or large guarantees to take a risk and sign with them.
They locked Cung in at a decent long term contract but once he became one of their stars he wants more money otherwise he’s gonna fight cans to finish out his contract.
Overeem doesnt want to fight for that shitty contract that he has. In fact once his fights with K-1 are over even Zuffa can sign him (the only stipulation would be that he would only be able to fight in the Overseas Cards) and he wouldnt even need to fulfill his strikeforce contract until his Zuffa deal is over. So overeem is going to use this as leverage in his negotiations.
Creating a star in this business is a double edged sword because then you have to pay them like one no matter how many fights are left on their contract.
by mmalogic on Nov 10, 2009 3:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Creating a star in this business is a double edged sword because then you have to pay them like one no matter how many fights are left on their contract.
And right now, SF doesn’t have the money to hang onto their stars.
I love me some Sexyama!
by pud333 on Nov 10, 2009 4:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Overeem it
That’s a good one. I’m going to use that in the future.
I love me some Sexyama!
by pud333 on Nov 10, 2009 4:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In practice;
Cung Lee is Overeeming the Middleweight title.
Was, but you get the point.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Nov 10, 2009 4:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’d prefer to use the verb the other way, such as “Strikeforce’s middleweight division has been Overeemed until last Saturday.”
by madiq on Nov 11, 2009 12:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yea, but the SF situation is going to hurt him in that regard also. Zuffa doesn’t have to offer Shields a contract that will make up for sponsors on CBS because CBS is pretty much off the table.
by Phildo on Nov 10, 2009 3:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I guess we’ll see, but I still think Jake is jumping ship.
I love me some Sexyama!
by pud333 on Nov 10, 2009 3:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I think he’ll go to the UFC as soon as he can, but he’s not going to get as much as he would have if he was able to get out from Elite when they died, or if he could have left right after Robbie Lawler.
by Phildo on Nov 10, 2009 3:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he’ll go to the UFC as soon as he can? no he won’t! He had that opportunity last year, he chose to sign an extension with strikeforce! I talked to him face to face and told him he shouldn’t call out GSP anymore considering he’s avoiding the UFC like it’s H1N1… true story
by kevjack115 on Nov 10, 2009 3:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He signed an extension with EliteXC, not Strikeforce. Strikeforce just took over his contract in the asset purchase.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Nov 10, 2009 4:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Shields signed the EA deal, so he might be out of the question
by The Bronzeville Bully on Nov 10, 2009 3:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yup
Shields is in EA Sports MMA, along with Nick.
=)
by MMASuPreMaCy on Nov 10, 2009 4:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder how that will work with Zuffa from here on out as they sign those free agents who have already signed the EA deal
by Chadsac on Nov 10, 2009 4:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
According to Zuffa, they wont.
=)
by MMASuPreMaCy on Nov 10, 2009 4:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah exactly, but do you know if that kind of deal is on a year by year basis? Like Shields was signed for this year but wouldn’t sign for next year’s game if he wanted to go with Zuffa? Anyone? Bueller?
by Chadsac on Nov 10, 2009 4:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
One year deals. After the game comes out, they’re free to move on or re-up. It’s going to be a non-point after the Spring (when the game should come out).
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Nov 10, 2009 4:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
by MMAWrestling on Nov 10, 2009 4:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This has been going on since the end of last year with every game developer. Nothing new here.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Nov 10, 2009 4:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yea, just affects development. Nothing new….
by MMAWrestling on Nov 10, 2009 4:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Every game developer?
Don’t be so broad, that’s patently untrue.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Nov 10, 2009 4:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ARE YOU GUYS CRAZY???
Shields isn’t even the best WW in his camp, how is he the best WW in strikeforce? Those who know me from mmamania know I’m a huge caesar gracie team fan, that said, I lost all respect and fandom of shields sat night. While it was easily fight of the night, and as someone who doesn’t need a 1st round KO, and really enjoys the back and forth transitions, thought it was a treat, Shields should be embarrassed! He had Miller’s back and mount numerous times and did NOTHING, while Miller had his back once and was 3-5 seconds away from victory! Shields’ standup is on par with my 7 year old son! he lives in the bay area and could train at Andre ward’s gym anytime, the Diaz boys do regularly!
NICK DIAZ WOULD DESTROY SHIELDS!!!
Jacre will destroy Shields!
by kevjack115 on Nov 10, 2009 3:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
From his wikipedia:
In one of the most boring figths ever televised Shields won the vacant Strikeforce Middleweight championship when he defeated Jason “Mayhem” Miller via unanimous decision.
by ryanwk628 on Nov 10, 2009 3:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
LMAO
Now it says this:
In one of the most exciting grappling matches ever televised Shields won the vacant Strikeforce Middleweight championship when he defeated Jason “Mayhem” Miller via unanimous decision.
Jake’s mom must have gotten on there and edited it.
by ufc4 on Nov 10, 2009 7:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Here is the solution
king Mo cuts to 185. Beats Shields. Shields rides off into the sun set. Someone else steps up to fill the title Mo vacates. Done and done.
by ryanwk628 on Nov 10, 2009 3:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
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