Do we really want TMMA (Traditional Mixed Martial Arts)

True but more so to see if Gracie could beat all the other Martial Arts. So i think one could argue that it was there to see which Martial Art is the best.

Which i think it still should and not just everybody use TMMA

That kicked was so damn obvious – it shouldn’t have been that hard to defend, but the guy had his arms completely stretched out.

Mestre Hulk was one of my favorite old school foils of BJJ.
Leland did a nice piece on Andre Gusmao, a promising IFL fighter (5-0) who washed out in the UFC (0-2). Gusmao had me pumped because he managed to incorporate some capoeira techniques into a pretty solid Muay Thai and BJJ game.
Shogun Rua has also unleashed some capoeria techniques in his day.
I’m toying with the idea that if Shogun has a chance against Machida it involves using capoeira to catch Machida off guard — show him something he hasn’t seen and be able to score from a range even further outside than Machida’s preferred attack range.

Along with finding out what works in these years i think that we have also seen that depending on the talent and proficiency of the individual with the art…that most arts can be successful in MMA.

Nobody thought Karate would work in early UFC’s.

I thought Sambo wasn’t as useful after seeing Oleg Taktarov.

But Lyoto And Fedor shut critics up

I think it’d be very likely that we see somebody of some other art come in with the same domination one because their talent and skill and two because people won’t be familiar about how to defend against it.

I agree its a matter of what works and whats available to the average person. TMMA is effective so I understand the gravitation but i think out of fear sometimes people don’t experiment with other arts.

Jon Jones is a good example of someone who incorporates whatever art he finds useful. Although he’s expressed his interest in Muay Thai i think he will be someone who incorporates whatever works

It may be too early to tell but i think Vitor Belfort is a good example of a MMAist attempting to broaden his horizons as well. Esp. if he went to another art after he got his black belt in Karate.

LOL at watching the people who excel at wrestling. No hate i do appreciate those people but I’ll probably appreciate Brocks more even though i’m sure i’ll get hate for that lol.

I don’t think the existence of primary styles is the enemy but rather the existence of a fear of trying different arts to use in MMA, with the result being all MMA matches looking like two fighters mirroring each other. And your jack of all trades forrest lol

There is truth to much of what you say. My old BJJ coach bemoaned that many people now were just training “MMA” and that it hurt their overall performance. His training method was to train intensely in separate disciplines and only combine them into a single practice when you were gameplanning for a fight. Now, by “separate disciplines”, he meant grappling, striking, and transitions – he combined elements of catch wrestling and BJJ together, elements of judo and freestyle wrestling together, and elements of MT and boxing together, but it was done intelligently and in a focused fashion.

I actually was standing around waiting for a prescription recently and picked up a copy of “Black Belt” Magazine, which is kind of the standard bearer for TMMAs. There was an article saying “thank you!” to MMA for reminding people that a lot of elements in TMMAs only work when you KNOW that the opponent is using the same/a similar style of fighting; they are dependent on a certain set of actions and reactions. That’s not to say that many PRINCIPLES of TMMA can’t be translated over, that some individual moves won’t work, but it is to say that just training in that art doesn’t necessarily mean it will work in MMA.

I’m trying to say that the three arts that are being used are getting boring…

I don’t think that by 2020 the top fighters will be skilled at all of these arts i think they will be skill at three arts at most and more skilled at one of the three. And this art will be his “Primary” art.

I also don’t think the success of guys like Machida and Belfort are only attributed to “well roundedness”. I think you can attribute their success to the incorporation of an unfamiliar style combined with their level of talent.

YES TMMA WORKS but that doesn’t mean its the only thing that works

The idea of drunken taekwondo is maybe the greatest thing I’ve ever heard. Dear God, I can imagine it now. Jumping side kick, landing in a faceplant! Low/high double roundhouse to jumping back kick to liver failure! Mark my words, Jose Canseco will learn this for his inevitable fight against one of Herschel Walker’s alternate personalities, and he will WRECK A MOTHERFUCKER. And then promptly pass out in a pool of his own vomit. Yuengling and kimchee do not mix well.

Forrest gets all the props from me but facts are facts
- Forrest is Good in all areas of MMA just not great
- I’m not really a fan of Shogun or Rampage so your right it didn’t hurt him… lol
-Forrest COULD come back and win some great fights and continue his legacy but i still don’t think he will ever get the belt back

I completely agree with this. Griffin was a UFC Champion, despite not really being a master of any one technique, whilst Andre Gusmao for example washed out of the UFC after 2 losses. Its not a great comparison I’ll admit, but it also illustrates that knowing something different and rare doesn’t mean it is effective at all.

Personally I think guys like Machida, Kikuno are rarities, and every so often such fighters will come along and be successful, but in future well rounded fighters like Griffin, Evans, will still dominate, I don’t see it happening at all where fighters try to learn something new to supplement their game, I feel well rounded athletic fighters will still dominate 90% of MMA in the future, even if they only know the more usual MMA skills. The idea of Brock Lesnar learning TKD intrigues me, and I think it would be very interesting if such things were to become a trend, but I cannot see them happening

Natural selection FTW. By and large, I think we’ve seen the most effective combo of styles in MT & Wrestling. Other styles can succeed when applied well (Machida’s karate, Cung Le’s san shou, etc) and exploring more esoteric martial arts can expand the arsenal of the fighters, but the LCD to compete is kickboxing & wrestling.

really brilliantly stated. This should be its own post.

-Robert A. Heinlein

This is exactly why I love MMA. It is still in its infancy so while we are all impressed with what we have seen even more impressive techniques and fighters will emerge with time.

The possibilities with the rules and the size of the octagon give fighters a great possibility to bring in many different arts and be effective. Hence why i don’t want a smaller cage but thats another topic.

The question i have for you now though is after this single disease or virus has wiped out an entire population then what? So now that you have Machida you lose this concept of everyone being vulnerable because everyone doesn’t have the same weakness. Are you implying that until everybody uses Machida MMA like Lyoto and the MMA world loses diversity is the only time a disease or virus (new style) can be brought in to wipe out an entire population or as you put it dominate EVERYBODY?

Quite possibly one of the best comments I’ve read since being on here.

One of the best comments I’ve read on this site.

God created MMA as we know it.

I like the idea of incorporating karate and other striking styles to MMA (like Spider does), but it’s not the only way to improve striking in MMA. So called Muay Thai in MMA is practically nonexistent, it’s more like kickboxing, it has little to do with MT. There aren’t many fighters that use weapons that MT has to offer.
I don’t like when people say that MT has become boring, because there are few people in MMA that had explored that beautiful art.

This is why i hate to hear on most UFC events "now he is a complete Mixed Martial Artist when speaking about certain fighters…

I want to see more arts being applied. I believe it was either Anderson or Jon Jones who said it best “if you train it than it will work” and thats how one of them pulled of that upward elbow or the spinning back elbow.

and for me, it wasn’t his rape of Bonnar that made me realize that (although Goddamn, that German suplex was the exclamation point on my fanboyism) so much as it was that crazy-ass double leg fake to a spinning elbow. It suddenly clicked in my head that I’d seen someone use that basic technique before…

It definitely should have already taken place…But i think either schools or fighters are apprehensive to using different arts and techniques because TMMA has already been proven successful.

standard is a much better word choice.

Well Kid Nate looks like i’ll have to quote him the next time i make an argument for TMMA or should i say SMMA

hopefully in the future there is not a “standard” of sorts in the future…

In the future i hope to see MMAist with a primary art whether it be wing chun, karate or san shou and learning BJJ and whatever their native wrestling style to use their art effectively.

This way it won’t be a standard and rather people pitting different arts against each other in the ocagon.

I was just about to Edit my original post to inform people of Standard MMA when i realized that Traditional MMA is a perfect name for the combination of Muay Thai, BJJ and Wrestling because we are very early in the history in the sport

For the reason that this is the first trio that has proven to be effective in MMA it has earned the title of Traditional. If we were to change it to Standard i think it would confuse readers in the future considering the fact that the standard trio then may be a completely different set of Martial Arts.

So while this is also the current standard for Mixed Martial Arts it is also the first truly effective base the mass of people who wish to enter MMA.

otherwise it becomes impossible to tell which post you’re referring to.

I guess i have confused some people in my many acronyms but Traditional MMA or TMMA means typical combination we see in UFC now being Muay Thai, Wrestling and BJJ

Although i’m sure you were talking about TMA Traditional Martial Arts like Karate Kung Fu etc i agree its not bad

Not sure if i’d call them MMA Mcdojos because i consider most TMA Mcdojos like the karate schools we all see as schools that teach things that aren’t practical and Muay Thai, BJJ, Wrestling combination is practical and effective.

However they are all teaching the same thing and will look very McDojo ish if more Machida’s , and Anderson Silva’s keep coming out of the woodworks destroying them.

and the youngers fighters are when they start training the more of them will be well-rounded with mastery of multiple disciplines. GSP’s ability to pick up wrestling as an add on to his skill set and become the best wrestler in MMA is just amazing.

Japanese MMA has gone the same way as MMA in the US with very few fighters sticking to a single discipline. Even Shinya Aoki trains Muay Thai in Thailand to round out his game.

because they both use Muay Thai and Machida Karate against TMMA

I agree that the fighter will have to be of a extremely high quality and exceptional. I mean…Even Lyoto’s Machida’s older brother who he claim’s is a better Karateka than he is but for some reason he nor any student has not been to apply it to MMA as Lyoto has.

if a Taekwondo guy attempts to come into MMA, which i would love btw to see all those fancy kicks without hardly any punches. He would need to have great BJJ like Lyoto, and also some tremendous wrestling to avoid the takedowns.

So the main thing that i think is needed is a primary art in your case lets say some authentic Korean Taekwondo, trippled with great BJJ and the traditional sport of Korea Ssireum (their form of wrestling)

I think this fighter would give TMMA (Muay Thai, BJJ and Western Wrestling) guys a really hard time because it would be something that they could not practice against.

While taking Hapkido i also noticed a lot of similar wrist manipulation techniques to Aikido and the throws of Judo. While the differences may be sometimes only cosmetic i think you are completely right that the discipline involved of honing the primary art while creating a base in 2/3 other essential arts, whether it be strking/wrestling/bjj is like you said what leads to the advantages you talk about.

BTW i like the religious paths analogy

in a couple of generations we evolve a race of super warriors who can challenge the gods themselves? will we not be struck down for our effrontery?

SMDH? Que?

“TMMA” is just a stupid idea. Isn’t it pretty commonly excepted MMA is still an evolving sport? For goodness sakes, wrestling it self is still evolving and its been around for thousands of years. You kids get off my lawn.