Shinya Aoki to the UFC? Aoki's Comments May Signal New Contract
by Leland Roling on Oct 8, 2009 2:00 PM EDT
in News
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The rumors seem to be swirling in the Land of the Rising Sun. Following Shinya Aoki's last second victory over Joachim Hansen at DREAM 11 on Tuesday morning, Aoki was quoted as stating that he was exhausted, wanted to rest, and then potentially fight B.J. Penn or Kenny Florian within the UFC:
"I don't even want to say anything about (New Year’s Eve). I've been fighting one bout after another, so I'm exhausted. I was thinking this was my last fight. I just want to rest. After that, then maybe I can decide on something. I'd like to fight B.J. Penn."
"I want to fight the best in the world, like B.J. Penn and Kenny Florian -- strong guys like that," he said. "I want to take them out and prove that Japanese are truly strong. I was told by someone that 'you got the belt, now you're number one in the world,' but I don't think so. Being top of the world isn't something so trivial. If I could become like B.J. Penn, I could die (happy)." (Sherdog)
Most fans have assumed that Aoki would simply ride into the sunset under the protection of fighting less than stellar competition in Japan with the exception of a few choice fighters he's faced, but there are a couple of sources that I've tapped into in Japan that seem to be hinting that Aoki's current contract is either complete or has only one-fight left before being completed with DREAM. Interestingly enough, scouring through a number of the Japanese MMA media outlets will also reveal that the media is running a number of stories regarding Aoki's most recent quotes at DREAM 11, and there are rumblings, while obviously speculative, that the UFC is already very interested. Not surprising to say the least.
There are two likely scenarios here. Either Shinya Aoki truly wants to test himself in the shark tank of the UFC's lightweight division to try to prove that Japanese fighters can hang in the Octagon, or this is merely a ploy for Aoki to command even more money from DREAM a la the Satoshi Ishii situation with Sengoku. I'm more inclined to believe the latter argument to be a much more legit motive.
One thing to keep in mind, however, is that this is definitely one way in which Japanese fighters command the money they wouldn't normally get in the declining Asian market for MMA. The continual threat that they may leave the market, a market in which they likely produce maximum potential for ratings due to their exposure there, to head to the U.S. doesn't make much sense since these fighters aren't known in the States, but the Japanese promotions simply don't want to lose that drawing power.
Fans can argue for days about whether or not Shinya Aoki would perform well in the UFC, but that isn't the main focus here. Can the UFC actually lure Japan's golden boy to America to try to prove he can compete in the Octagon? It seems like a very tough sell to me, but Aoki's comments following his win over Joachim Hansen are circulating. It doesn't surprise me that Aoki has been continually increasing his talk about the UFC though. He'll likely be granted his wish of more money in a new contract because of this accepted way of business dealings in the Japanese MMA scene. After all, it worked for Satoshi Ishii.
I know the inner hardcore fans inside all of us truly want to see Aoki make the migration to the UFC for the simple fact that it would clear up the questions regarding the Lightweight division. Is it possible? I'm more inclined to believe this is a bargaining chip in Aoki's pocket, but maybe Aoki will become one of those Japanese athletes that will, at the very least, try to make his mark in America. We can't fault the man for trying.
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Agree 100%
I see this playing out much like the Takinori Gomi situation. American promotions won’t be willing to put up the cash necessary to pry Aoki from Japan. The cost outweighs the reward.
by Andy R on Oct 8, 2009 12:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think the telling sign if a Japanese fighter is really interested in making it big in the U.S.
If if he either starting learning English, or starting using it more if he already knows it.
Otherwise, no matter how good they are, it will be hard for them to work their way into big paydays here.
by Razreshat on Oct 8, 2009 12:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That shouldn’t be limited to Japanese fighters trying to make it big in the US.
When Anderson Silva smashed Rich Franklin the first time, I said that the UFC should give him some time off from fighting and just have him learn English. A guy with that level of talent who can speak with any degree of eloquence (and understanding of how to promote a fight) is going to have folks knocking down the doors to see him, especially since Anderson seems to actually have charisma.
...Behold, a pale horse. The man that sat upon it was Wieters, and hell followed with him.
"BJ on the BE" - Kierkegaard
by Brett Jones on Oct 8, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
I didn’t mean that is only applies to the Japanese, I simply put it this way because of the article I was referring to.
Machida/Anderson are perfect examples of the difference learning the language, or at least working on it, makes.
by Razreshat on Oct 8, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
English isnt the best litmus test of their intentions
Every japanese kid has to learn it in school. Most Japanese people who work in business, esp international business (MMA included) can speak passable english.
by judonerd on Oct 8, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no actually majority of the japanese population don’t speak much english
true that japanese has integrated english words into their own language [like tobako = cigarette, kohi = coffee], most of them don’t speak much english
they might be able to write and read some but conversation-wise, not really
by CC11 on Oct 8, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're right
when I was in japan, it was difficult to find anybody who spoke a word of english
by cagefightonacid on Oct 8, 2009 3:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly in my opinion
who gives a flying F#CK whether or not. If the fighter can speaker English?
they’re fighters, not some entertainers.
Sure it would be a big plus, but I dont care as long as they perform 100% of their ability.
*Aoki won’t come to US. Maybe in couple years perhaps
You have to beat the legend, in order to become the LEGEND
-Melvin Manhoef (after his destruction of Sakuraba)
by chopstickthugz on Oct 8, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the American casual fanbase does
that’s why English speaking fighters sell better than ones who don’t. do I care? not at all, like u said, just a plus.
by cagefightonacid on Oct 8, 2009 6:09 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Sheesh. I took 4 years of French in school, like every kid in Canada. Had a little French Canadien Granmudder, and my French is horribly impassable.
by bubbafat on Oct 8, 2009 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Aoki may have learned some English from David Gardner…
Sergio Non,
MMA writer, USA TODAY
http://mma.usatoday.com
by Sergio Non on Oct 8, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
HEY-O!
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 8, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably a whole slew of curse words
Which is all Aoki really needs to cut a promo.
by dv8shun on Oct 8, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would be awesome.
Aoki Vs Joe Daddy to start it off?
Keep firing Assholes!
The Leafs are back!
by Ubernoober on Oct 8, 2009 12:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What about Nate diaz vs Aoki before giving him a strong wrestler like Stevenson?
You don't look like a Tanaka.
by spectaa on Oct 8, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
No point. Aoki won’t be able to understand Nate’s mid fight mouthing off.
Keep firing Assholes!
The Leafs are back!
by Ubernoober on Oct 8, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i’d rather him fight for the title right away, lest he loses to somebody like Stevenson and we never see the fight we want
by cagefightonacid on Oct 8, 2009 1:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
He would think it was Kitaoka.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Oct 8, 2009 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Separated at Birth
Yep, I have Twitter too. Follow me @deowade
by Deo Wade on Oct 10, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well he is a title holder
I say give him Florian, and if he wins that he gets a shot at bj/diego
by Shaun32887 on Oct 8, 2009 12:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
BJ would smash him. Aoki’s strengths are BJ’s strengths and BJ has more strengths than Aoki as he also has awesome standup. Florian would be the best matchup to start off, or Joe Stevenson, as someone said. Maynard would manhandle him with a slim chance of getting submitted. Even Huerta would beat him. As good as Huerta’s submission defense is, as good as his heart his, he would smash Aoki.
With that being said, he would be a welcome addition to the UFC roster.
by Kobajack on Oct 8, 2009 1:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, this isn’t a debate on the specialization of each fighter’s skillsets. Right now, it would still be a discussion as to whether Aoki truly wants to try his hand at heading to the UFC.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 8, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course, that’s a given, but it has always been a talking point for me, because there have been some respected MMA sites who have ranked Aoki higher than BJ Penn. I don’t know if they still do, but I need to express my opinion that to even think so is quite bogus, because he hasn’t done anything to prove it. Either way, whatever one may think, I still welcome his addition to the UFC if the occasion was ever to occur.
by Kobajack on Oct 8, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have to wonder also how the different rules (like elbows on the ground) and fighting in a cage would or would not affect Aoki. In the UFC, if a fighter wanted to take Aoki down and just hold Aoki down, he could, but that doesn’t work in Japan.
I am a fan of Aoki, but I really want to see him “put up or shut up” about DREAM fighters being better than UFC fighters.
by chrisbboy82 on Oct 8, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s embarrassing how many “hardcore” MMA fans like to hypothesize possible future fights, and analyze them as if they’ve already watched them. Aoki vs Huerta, I’ve been watching this stuff for years and I don’t have a clue who would win that fight. I don’t care where they’ve been ranked. Anything could happen.
by bubbafat on Oct 8, 2009 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How’s it embarrassing? Everyone hypothesizes. They say it as their own respective opinion, on what they THINK would happen. It’s normal. It’s not being harsh to a fighter unless you start getting spiteful and bagging him out. I think your post is embarrassing more than anything else.
by Kobajack on Oct 9, 2009 1:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i love aoki and i would love to see him fight in the US… i wonder if strikeforce is an option just so he can still fight in japan? i mean Gil and Josh Thompson are legit wrestlers.
"I’m not going to stop yelling because that would mean, I lost the fight!"-Kenny Powers
shooter/cutter for AllElbows.com
by ekc on Oct 8, 2009 1:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
although, hearing baka survivor during his walkout to fight bj would be a mma wet dream for me..
"I’m not going to stop yelling because that would mean, I lost the fight!"-Kenny Powers
shooter/cutter for AllElbows.com
by ekc on Oct 8, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Legit wrestlers who would lose to Aoki i think..
by Anton Tabuena on Oct 8, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t see Gil losing to Aoki
by cagefightonacid on Oct 8, 2009 1:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
your dreams don’t count
by cagefightonacid on Oct 8, 2009 1:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I want to see Kawajiri vs. Aoki for the simple fact that Kawajiri’s style is somewhat comparable to how North American wrestlers fight.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 8, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd like that fight..
but after suggesting that a move to the UFC was possible, it would be like salivating for a Fedor vs Lesnar match only to find out he’s going to fight Brett Rogers. haha.
Good match up, but it’s a let down after getting teased.
by Anton Tabuena on Oct 8, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I wasn’t able to get a hint as to whether the contract is over or he has one fight left. So, he may need to battle Kawajiri regardless. Aoki makes it sound like he has options now though.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 8, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, that's what i'm getting from the sound of his comments too.
I’d love to see him against Diaz, Guida, then if he wins both, BJ..
by Anton Tabuena on Oct 8, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
me too
kawajiri is his toughest fight to date, I still don’t understand why jz and hansen fought so tentatively on the feet….
by cagefightonacid on Oct 8, 2009 2:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Someone will now post the flying guard pull by Aoki.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 8, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah man, did you see Kawajiri pass to mount in his last fight? I don’t think Clay Guida knows that position exists.
by JRN on Oct 8, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Greg Jackson can’t teach him that.
by KahilBS_Marshal on Oct 8, 2009 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BJ would kill Aoki standing, and if it ever went to the ground, while Aoki’s submission skills are no joke, I don’t think he’ll submitt BJ.
Still, it’s a moot point. I highly doubt Aoki is coming to the UFC. With all the recent talk but no follow-through of Japanese fighters coming over to the UFC, I won’t think much of this until an official announcement is made that Aoki is signed.
I love me some Sexyama!
by pud333 on Oct 8, 2009 1:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think this is a bargaining chip. Just like Gomi and Ishii, it’s mere talk to fuel contract talks later.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 8, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep. Pretty much what I believe also.
I love me some Sexyama!
by pud333 on Oct 8, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think anyone ever thought Akiyama would actually come to the states either. I hope Aoki does come to the UFC. I bet signing Aoki would lead to a show in japan very quickly.
by Dropkick434 on Oct 8, 2009 1:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Leland, I hate you for getting my hopes up..
haha.
by Anton Tabuena on Oct 8, 2009 1:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn’t get them up. I think it’s a strategic move to get more money. I mean, look at Gomi and Ishii… it worked to PERFECTION.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 8, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah i know..
but even just floating the slight possibility of seeing Aoki fight in the UFC makes me, and maybe others, salivate on seeing some great potential matches.
by Anton Tabuena on Oct 8, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One thing is certain… it would clear up the whole LW rankings problem.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 8, 2009 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shit like this
Most fans have assumed that Aoki would simply ride into the sunset under the protection of fighting less than stellar competition in Japan with the exception of a few choice fighters he’s faced
Makes me not even want to read stories anymore. Talk about bias. No one in MMA has fought more quality opponents in the past year than Aoki. Hansen, Jzx2, Eddie, Uno, Mach (WW), Shaolin now Kawajiri. Yet people have the nerve to say being protected vs less than stellar?
Funny how BJ doesn’t have to go chase the high ranked LWs but Fedor does.
by gunranger on Oct 8, 2009 1:24 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
fedor doesn’t have to do shit and people will lick his nuts
by cagefightonacid on Oct 8, 2009 1:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Excellent Point
Whoever said Aoki is protected is on crack. The fight against Mach at WW would have never happened, if that was the case. The guy is a good fighter and his style gives ANY fighter problems, no matter who you are.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Oct 8, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Almost all those fighters made their name in the isolation of Japanese MMA. Aoki is kind of a big fish in a small pond.
I don’t think Aoki could beat cream of the UFC crop, but he could probably beat all the gatekeepers. IMO.
by judonerd on Oct 8, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aoki is kind of a big fish in a small pond.
I disagree. Plenty of talent at LW in DREAM and in PRIDE, where he has won consistently over top MMA LW’s.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Oct 8, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah just look at the top 25 lw’s in the consensus rankings…
by cagefightonacid on Oct 8, 2009 2:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I’m just saying that consensus rankings are worthless until UFC and japanese fighters mix it up to see which promotion carries the better talent. Soukou looked awesome in Japan and sucked bad in the UFC, and plenty of other fighters were highly ranked overseas until they came stateside and got pwned.
by judonerd on Oct 8, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, wish we could get it cleared up
by cagefightonacid on Oct 8, 2009 6:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Just curious, how many of the consensus rankings are from Japanese or other foreign mma sites?
by nottheface on Oct 9, 2009 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Give me a break.
A lot of the talk on Aoki threads is EXACTLY what I pointed out. I didn’t say every fan, and most of us aren’t lumped into that category. But there are plenty of fans who believe those fighters barely hack it in the UFC if they came this way.
Hansen’s takedown defense is atrocious, JZ can’t keep his knees healthy, Eddie has a solid chance at being decent in the UFC, Uno won’t hack it today, Mach won’t hack it either, and Shaolin is far too methodical. Kawajiri is another guy I’d like to see.
But there are a number of fights recently that aren’t up to snuff in terms of caliber that Aoki has fought, hence why the criticism leads a lot of threads.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 8, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eddie only has a chance? What in Eddie s fights make you think that he is not an imediate contender?
"I’m not going to stop yelling because that would mean, I lost the fight!"-Kenny Powers
shooter/cutter for AllElbows.com
by ekc on Oct 8, 2009 2:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
It’s fairly tough to gauge Eddie at this point. He can dominate a lot of guys in Japan because he has better wrestling, so I’d like to actually see him against those guys who can counter him. His punching is powerful and solid, so he’d be a good candidate to be in the mix.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 8, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BS
shinya is just talking, there’s no way he will go to the ufc
by cagefightonacid on Oct 8, 2009 1:27 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
This isn’t goint to happen. Ishii, Pride, they have all pretended to want to be involved in the UFC at some point, but it just isn’t true.
Sure Aoki wants to beat BJ Penn and retire as the best in the world, but he knows that even getting to BJ is pretty unlikely. There are at least a few UFC LW’s that would work Aoki over, and if he ever fought BJ it woud be a massacre.
by Razzel on Oct 8, 2009 1:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
My thoughts exactly.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 8, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nate Diaz
would be the perfect barometer for Aoki’s skills. If Shinya doesn’t completely dismantle Diaz then he has no business even uttering BJ’s name in a sentence.
by JayKim41 on Oct 8, 2009 1:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
florian/penn situation
i’d see aoki beating florian, but the reality is he wouldn’t touch penn.
by JohnsonD1Wrestler on Oct 8, 2009 1:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed although if kenny can keep it on its feet aoki is fucked. Plus no pants allowed in the UFC. id lke to see how it effects his grappling.
"Frank Mir had a horseshoe up his ass. I told him a year ago. I pulled it out of him and I beat him over the head with it." Brock Lesnar
by pitbull187 on Oct 8, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
id lke to see how it effects his grappling.
Watch his Shooto and DEEP fights.
by JRN on Oct 8, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wins over Hansen, JZ, Ribeiro, Alvarez, Kikuchi etc are more than stellar.
by Meshuggeth on Oct 8, 2009 1:37 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
In comparison to looking at UFC fighters, there are plenty of fans who disagree. Do I? No, I really think he’s fought legitimately good competition, but I think there is a large contingent of fans who don’t think so.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 8, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For those saying that Aoki would get smashed by Penn, who wouldn’t or hasn’t gotten smashed by Penn at LW in the UFC lately?
by MMASuPreMaCy on Oct 8, 2009 1:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
there is nothing ashamed about being smashed by B.J. Penn regardless of what people think about him he is still in the top 5 of the greatest MMA fighters in history. A loss to him on your record only shows you fought the best. id give props to aoki for stepping up and fighting penn. Love to see them too on the ground
"Frank Mir had a horseshoe up his ass. I told him a year ago. I pulled it out of him and I beat him over the head with it." Brock Lesnar
by pitbull187 on Oct 8, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everyone (which includes Aoki) would get smashed by Penn. So what’s your point?
I STILL poop rainbows.
by Blackout612 on Oct 8, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not holding my breath.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by AboveThisFire on Oct 8, 2009 1:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Because of ignorance, Leland.
Hansen, JZ, and Alvarez would tear shit up in the UFC LW division.
by Meshuggeth on Oct 8, 2009 2:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Every single one of those names would have trouble in the UFC’s LW division.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 8, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe guys like Penn, Sanchez, Edgar, Sherk and Maynard. I’d pick them against anyone else and they all have a good chance against of the former, of course they’d have trouble against other top guys.
by Meshuggeth on Oct 8, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Tyson Griffin could give some of these guys problems as well, but it really depends on the style match-up. Hansen’s takedown defense is terrible, and I wonder how he’d do against top notch wrestling talent in the UFC.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 8, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And realistically, that’s the knock on all those guys when comparing to the UFC.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 8, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
With the exception of possibly Alvarez.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 8, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“tear shit up” or “be competitive in”
I’ll go with “be competitive in”.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by AboveThisFire on Oct 8, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’d say they can run through everyone in the division except 4 or 5 names.
by Meshuggeth on Oct 8, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No way. I still say mid-tier UFC LW’s would beat Hansen, Alvarez, Aoki et al. Spencer Fisher, Clay Guida, Joe Stevenson, and Roger Huerta would probably beat any of those guys.
by mburtoni on Oct 8, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Definitely Hell No
Apart from Aoki being ranked 2nd (he should be ranked about 6th) Hansen, Alvarez and Aoki would beat most of the above names. Definitely Spencer Fisher is somebody who I think all three of the Dream LWs could beat.
by rainmaker6 on Oct 9, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How will he deal with the cage? And fighting guys who can wrestle? And not being able to wear his fancy pants?
by mburtoni on Oct 8, 2009 2:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The cage could be an issue. But he doesn’t mind fighting from his back, and has been known to pull guard quite effectively when the takedowns aren’t coming. The pants thing is a totally ridiculous red herring that anyone should be embarrassed to bring up as a serious point.
by JRN on Oct 8, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think a more pertinent question is why practically nobody else in Japan wears them. The country is ridden with submission grappling guys, yet only Aoki is known for the pants. Not Satoru Kitaoka, not Hideo Tokoro, not Shaolin… why would they let such a great advantage go unexploited?
The pants might offer a marginal benefit in some situations, but I seriously doubt it’s enough to warrant any concern about how Aoki might fare without them, particularly when he fought successfully without them at the beginning of his career, and when he could wear long tight trunks and fabric on his knees and feet under unified rules.
That people continue to carp about the pants in spite of these rather obvious points is indicative of how far some folks will go to discredit Shinya Aoki.
by JRN on Oct 8, 2009 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Skin on skin gets slippery quick.
Fabric offers traction.
BJJ guys use their legs a lot.
What else do you need to know?
by judonerd on Oct 9, 2009 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What else do you need to know?
As the comment you replied to but apparently didn’t read indicates, I need to know why, if the pants are so incredibly great, no other BJJ or sub grappling guys who fight in Japan use them like Aoki does. They’re surely aware of the perils of slippery skin, and could don the pants if the wanted to, but they don’t. Which suggests to me that the pants probably have benefits and drawbacks, and it’s a matter of personal taste rather than something Aoki is somehow dependent on.
by JRN on Oct 9, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I want to believe as much as anyone that a guy can be really good at one thing and do well, and Maia showed you can do very well against mid-level competition, but we all saw what happened when he fought a top notch fighter. You can’t get away with the same mistakes. Aoki and many of the fighters he has fought just aren’t well rounded.
by Razzel on Oct 8, 2009 2:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I really don’t think Maia’s loss to Marquardt told us anything other than that it’s a bad idea to drop your hands when you throw a kick. Maia never got the chance to work his strategy—which isn’t kick-based, obviously—on a top guy, so consequently we don’t know how well it might work.
by JRN on Oct 8, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem becomes though that there are many more top notch fighters in the LW division than in the MW division. That’s why we won’t ever see Aoki in the UFC. He would piss off a lot of people in Japan, and the only way he becomes popular in the US is if he can be a champion or at the very least become the clear #2 in the division, both of which are extremely unlikely.
by Razzel on Oct 8, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The relative depth of the LW division is irrelevant, since as I just pointed out, Demian Maia tells us nothing about how a totally jiu-jitsu-centric strategy works against top competition in the UFC. All he told us is that it’s a bad idea to have terrible defense. As to how a similar strategy would work at LW, we won’t know until somebody tries it.
The points about popularity have nothing to do with what I said.
by JRN on Oct 8, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bottom line, Aoki makes a lot of mistakes in every area but BJJ, and that’s going to be a problem in a stacked division. Yeah we won’t really know until we see it, but that’s why I’m just pointing out why we’re never going to see it.
by Razzel on Oct 8, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
IMO the reason he’s been so successful is precisely because he doesn’t make a lot of mistakes in other areas (the last Mach fight aside—that was terrible). If he did, he’d have never made it this far with his style.
by JRN on Oct 8, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One of the problems for opponents is that he’s so good at BJJ that he opens up better circumstances for himself on the feet. Opponents are hesitant because they don’t want to make a mistake in being taken down or succumbing to the guard pull.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 8, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aoki would probably even have trouble with a mid level guy like Thiago Tavares who is good on the ground and can also stand somewhat.
by mburtoni on Oct 8, 2009 2:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good on the ground with good standup? You mean like J.Z. Calvan or Joachim Hansen?
by JRN on Oct 8, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah LOL.
Aoki has beaten fucking animals.
Do you know who JZ is?! or Hansen?! Alvarez!? Ribeiro?!
by Meshuggeth on Oct 8, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know if Aoki could beat a Gleison Tibau.
That is a bad matchup IMO.
by MickDawg on Oct 9, 2009 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This seriously makes my day.
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Ben Franklin
by donkeypunch on Oct 8, 2009 2:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think Aoki's Judo skill can keep up with good wrestlers. Got legitimate creditionals too
Judo can be used very effectively against wrestling and his leg locks are top notch which always been a soft spot for wrestlers.
The things I’m worried about are his stand up offense/defense, his chin (ability to take punishments), his strength, and his cardio
UFC fighters are seriously no joke when it comes to discipline and strength n conditioning. Many of them can fight for 5 5min rounds.
I like to see Aoki bulking up so he can work some effective GNP, instead of punching back of the opponent’s head. Cardio is super important as well
If he doesnt improve these then I see many fighters winning by boring decision against Aoki. Jab n run then jab n run…..
You have to beat the legend, in order to become the LEGEND
-Melvin Manhoef (after his destruction of Sakuraba)
by chopstickthugz on Oct 8, 2009 5:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He will win BJ....IF he can wear his stupid pants....
lot of people dont talk about his pants…IMO his pants have alot to do with his success. I know some people might get upset with my comment but who ever knows the sub game knows how big of an advantage the pants that he wears have. but in any case i dont think you can wear those kind of pants in US…right?
by 1WAYtiket on Oct 8, 2009 7:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ugh, see my comment on this point in response to Riney above. The pants obsession amongst Aoki detractors never ceases to amaze me.
by JRN on Oct 8, 2009 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
plus im not discrediting him but... i mean why else would he wear it?
i mean if he has some one in a rubber guard which he is very known for…the pants help him alot…because it doesnt matter how sweaty the other guy is…the grip is way better then without….agree?
by 1WAYtiket on Oct 8, 2009 8:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
OK, I’ll just repost the other comment.
I think a more pertinent question is why practically nobody else in Japan wears them. The country is ridden with submission grappling guys, yet only Aoki is known for the pants. Not Satoru Kitaoka, not Hideo Tokoro, not Shaolin… why would they let such a great advantage go unexploited?
The pants might offer a marginal benefit in some situations, but I seriously doubt it’s enough to warrant any concern about how Aoki might fare without them, particularly when he fought successfully without them at the beginning of his career, and when he could wear long tight trunks and fabric on his knees and feet under unified rules.
by JRN on Oct 8, 2009 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does Aoki cut weight to make LW in DREAM?
Just BE.
by mattman73 on Oct 8, 2009 8:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think he probably does, because he started his career at 170. People don’t usually start out in weight classes they have to bulk up to make.
by JRN on Oct 8, 2009 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well… it depends. Historically, fighters in Japan don’t really do so. Unsure though.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 8, 2009 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t think a lot of Japanese fighters cut nearly as much weight as American fighters considering guys like Akihiro Gono and Ryo Chonan competed at middleweight but both dropped to welterweight after signing with the UFC while giant guys like Anthony Johnson and Thiago Alves cut in excess of 30 lbs. to make 170.
by KahilBS_Marshal on Oct 8, 2009 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who in their right mind would sign up for the UFC if it meant fighting BJ Penn at 155?
And don’t say Diego, cause he’s clearly not in his right mind.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Oct 9, 2009 10:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
the use of that to get more money was my first thought when reading the bit about wanting to fight in the UFC…besides, if he comes to America he loses his leggings, the complaining to the UFC….and has to not lay on top for 5-7 min’s to set up a submission.
Gatti. Dekkers. Pele. Aoki. Kang. Vanderlei.
http://theworldsoldestsport.blogspot.com/
by theworldsoldestsport on Oct 9, 2009 3:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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