Strikeforce Struggling With Wayward Stars Nick Diaz and Alistair Overeem
Strikeforce CEO Scott Coker is pretty sanguine about the news that Alistair Overeem will be fighting Sam Hoger in Holland on October 11, per MMA Weekly:
"I've read all the blogs and statements about Golden Glory and what they're saying, Alistair not honoring his contract," said Coker. "That's all stuff I call the National Enquirer gossip. We're not going to respond to that. We know Alistair's going to be fighting in Strikeforce. We have an agreement. The relationship is strong. They're thankful that we're letting them fight in Dream. But I still think Alistair is going to be a champion in Strikeforce that's going to be a formidable opponent for either Fedor (Emelianenko) or Brett Rogers."
Coker said his agreement with Overeem wasn't beholden to other promotions, but based instead on professional courtesy.
"In the past, we've always used the K-1 agreement, and they fought for us because I asked K-1 or Dream or Pride at the time, can I use Vitor Belfort, can I use Alistair Overeem?" Coker continued. "And they said sure. Now, with the relationship with CBS and Showtime, we have direct contracts with Alistair that have nothing to do with Dream. He's obligated to fight, it's just scheduling the time now."
As much as Overeem must be a headache for Coker, welterweight star Nick Diaz is even more ulcer inducing. UFC, IFL and Affliction veteran Jay Hieron was supposed to fight Diaz for the Strikeforce welterweight title at the Strikeforce: Carano vs Cyborg event in August, but Diaz' struggles with the CSAC killed that fight.
Steve Cofield talked to Jay Hieron and laid out the case against Diaz in pretty stark terms:
"Diaz is [expletive] around. I don't know what the kid's doing," told Cagewriter. "He's trying to box and all of that. That's the fight outside of the UFC that makes the most sense for a world title fight."
Hieron was the victim of a Diaz screw job at the August Strikeforce event. Diaz no-showed his commission mandated drug test in California and was dumped from the card. Jesse Taylor stepped up to fight Hieron on short notice but the fight didn't even make the Showtime broadcast. That cost Hieron plenty of money in salary and endorsements. Now Diaz's unreliabilty has cost Hieron a shot at getting the fight on CBS on Nov. 7. There's no doubt Strikeforce would've pushed Diaz-Hieron for the CBS card but Ken Hershman, Showtime's Vice President of Sports Prgramming, made it clear before the Aug. 15 event that he can't promote Diaz right now as a main event/main card fighter.
Diaz camp responds via MMA Weekly:
Gracie said Diaz wants to fight on Strikeforce's live network television debut, set for a two-hour telecast Nov. 7 in suburban Chicago.
"Realistically, Nick will fight in December, but we did want him to fight in November, ideally, and that is still possible that he will fight on the CBS card, as of yesterday," said Gracie. "They're trying to get that through, and they've got to work with the executives at Showtime."
Apparently Nick isn't the only member of his camp who's smoking the good stuff. Hieron has said that it's too late to schedule a title fight for November 7 at this point. MMA Weekly does report that Strikeforce has approached both the Diaz and Hieron camps about fighting on their December Showtime card. Hieron also says he was approached about fighting Diaz at DREAM.12 on October 25, but didn't get enough notice to prepare for the fight.
Meanwhile from the sound of the Showtime brass, Diaz won't be getting heavy promotion from them or CBS anytime soon:
"If you're going to be a main event fighter, or a fighter at this level, you've got to show up," said Ken Hershman, Senior Vice President and General Manager of Showtime Networks, in an August radio interview with Cofield. "If you can't, and you're not reliable, who can count on you, and where are you going with your career? You've got to make a commitment. Either you're going to do it right, or not do it at all. You only get one or two shots at that, and then it's done.
"I don't see how I can promote and spend hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars promoting somebody who's not going to show up. It's just bad business."
Nick Diaz' manager Cesar Gracie responds that he'd like to take his ball and go play in Dana White's yard:
"If they're mad at him and they're not letting him fight somewhere because of that, please release him from his contract and you'll see him in the UFC a month later. I don't know if that's the case. I'm assuming it's because they want him to headline the December card, they want some star power on the December card. If it's because Showtime is a little irked at him, then here, dude, don't get irked anymore, let him fight somewhere else."
My advice to everyone concerned:
- Alistair Overeem: Start timing your cycles so you can take that big money title fight on CBS against Fedor. I mean Fedor/Rogers.
- Jay Hieron: Go ahead and start training for Diaz now. Now that Strikeforce is partnered with DREAM, their last-minute fight booking policies for American fighters are your reality. Be prepared to fight at all times and jump at the next chance to beat Diaz.
- Nick Diaz: Cut the crap, quit smoking the ganja and come to terms with the CSAC. Do the two fights on your Strikeforce contract in Japan if possible and get over to the UFC where they'll let you fight in Nevada, a commission that hasn't shown any proclivity for surprise tests.
- Strikeforce and Showtime: Trying to pawn the problematic Diaz off on DREAM was a fine idea. Let him fight in Japan where there is no drug testing, just try to work with Hieron as well so he'll know to be ready next time. Give Hieron adequate notice for the fight, he stands a strong chance to dominate Diaz positionally and pull out a decision. While Hieron's not ever going to be the draw that the charismatic Diaz is, he is a professional and won't be the headache Diaz is.
Image via MMA Mania.
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Make your own gravestone!
"Frank Mir had a horseshoe up his ass. I told him a year ago. I pulled it out of him and I beat him over the head with it." Brock Lesnar
While I can understand why some MMA fans will conclude that this is a sign that Strikeforce won’t make it, I am of the belief, admittingly naively optimistic, that this is growing pains for a promotion that truly just started being a national MMA product.
I have to ask, but I noticed that many MMA fans have turned their back on Strikeforce and would like to know why. Is it because Strikeforce signed Fedor or is it something else? When Strikeforce was that small, regional product, many of these same fans highly praised the product.
by chrisbboy82 on Oct 6, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
They are partly responsible for cock blocking Fedor Vs BROCKLESNAR!!!!!!! They must die.
Keep firing Assholes!
The Leafs are back!
SF had nothing to do with Fedor not going to the UFC. Why do people get so emotional over business they aren’t apart of?
Because
Most of these fans are fucking morons
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
For instance,
…all of us.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
I’m sure Heiron will be thrilled at being told “Start training now for a fight that’s going to happen we don’t know when.”
Keep firing Assholes!
The Leafs are back!
I'm not saying it's fair
nor is it fair that the UFC wouldn’t sign him because he is in the EA video game.
I’m just saying it’s his best chance to make the most of his predicament.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
that was his version of events
there were other reports that they were less interested in him because of his relationship with EA Video games.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
couple of things
1) Fighters often say they got offers, doesn’t mean they did. Mousasi’s management infamously claimed they had an offer from the UFC and the UFC claims they didn’t.
2) His contract came over with the Affliction purchase and yet the UFC let him slip away to Strikeforce. Think that happens with a fighter they’re even marginally interested in?
Jay, good as he is, is sadly of very little interest to the UFC. He’s been there and been cut. He doesn’t have a particularly electrifying style and he’s not someone who draws a huge amount of fan interest. Unlike Nick Diaz who Dana has publicly said he’d like to have back.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Oct 6, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hieron isn’t a casual fan name at all anyways. In the meantime, throw him on a first-fight main card in a squash match that he can easily stand and bang with and win. Give him a little exposure.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 6, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think they want or should add another welterweight who has been smashed by georges
by cagefightonacid on Oct 6, 2009 7:37 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think this kinda position is fruitless. there’s no way he’s going to stop smoking weed t this point, everybody knows the story: claiming to be high before all of his ufc fights and garnering his biggest win when high. and quitting for a month, from a stoners pov, is just as difficult as quitting forever
by cagefightonacid on Oct 6, 2009 1:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
not that I know or anything
by cagefightonacid on Oct 6, 2009 1:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Sure, sure.
Come on, man – puff, puff, pass.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
Here’s the thing: his job requires him to quit. If he’s not capable of doing that, he should get another job.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Oct 6, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
Agreed.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 6, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually, his “job,” if you can call it that, is to fight on an agreed-upon date. The LAW requires that he be licensed, and that he test clean so that they can LET him do his job. When Strikeforce institutes drug testing as a condition of fighter contracts, then I suspect that he WILL have to fight elsewhere (probably Japan). However, for now, Nick just has to fulfill his minimum LEGAL obligations, so that he can concentrate on his REAL job, which would be winning the title. It’s been proven that once you win a Strikeforce title, title defenses are optional.
It’s a semantic argument, I’ll give you that, but I get tired of people saying that quitting smoking is part of his “job requirements,” assuming that (a) being under promotional contract is comparable to being “employed” in the classical sense, and (b) the promotion itself has an interest that isn’t imposed and managed by some outside organization. “Being in compliance with local regulatory authorities in regards to drug-free competition” doesn’t have the same ring as “giving up weed,” but there is a distinction between what he does in his uncompensated free time, and what the State has an interest in proscribing.
Thanks for playing "Say a bunch of shit that doesn't address the point"
Here’s your copy of the home game.
- Dude signs a contract to fight for an American company that puts on shows almost exclusively in California
- Dude knows for a fact that in order to fulfill his contract, he has to fight in California
- California requires fighters to get a license and be tested
HOW IS BEING DRUG TESTED NOT HIS JOB? Twist this around however you like, but he will NEVER FIGHT FOR STRIKEFORCE WITHOUT A DRUG TEST.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
One of which was in California
which means that he laid off the weed, so what’s your point?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
It could also mean that he tested clean WITHOUT laying off the weed, by using his “herbal cleanse” or whatever thing he does to get the marijuana out of his system in a couple of days. Which, for the purpose that the Commission regulates the levels of foreign substances in fighters’ bloodstreams, should suffice.
I think it’s funny that the same article that suggests that a fighter cycle off of STEROIDS, which is a clear performance-enhancing drug, also suggests that another fighter quit using a substance that he has a medical clearance to ingest, and which apparently can be flushed out of his system. The notion of “out of competition testing” is designed to catch cheaters, not recreational drug users. It’s obviously legal, but just being the state of the law doesn’t make it above reproach. One can be sympathetic to Diaz’ plight, even if one wishes he handled the situation with more professionally. However, this is when a professional athlete’s representative is supposed to step up and earn his/her money.
I’m almost suspicious that Diaz knows that there’s a UFC offer on the table whenever he is free of his Strikeforce deal, and Zuffa’s cozy relationship with Nevada regulators will make it FAR less likely that he’d get nailed with a random. But you’d think that inasmuch as Shields has been pretty vocal about wanting to fight in the UFC, it wouldn’t be too hard to have Nick candidly say the same thing.
One of which was in Cali
so what’s your point?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
Aiyee!
Downtime makes commenting HARD.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
Good advice for all parties, Nate.
I hope they heed your wise counsel.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Oct 6, 2009 1:06 PM EDT reply actions
I really feel bad for Hieron in this whole mess.
If they aren’t going to promote Diaz as a main event fighter, get someone else to fight Hieron for the belt.
by Phildo on Oct 6, 2009 1:20 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Exactly.
Strikeforce needs to start showing loyalty to the fighters they can depend upon, and punishing the fighters that aren’t being team players. Limiteless patience for the Overeems and Diaz’s of the MMA world is going to kill their business as the Hierons of the business decide its not worth it to be with SF.
They could just book shows in states with weak Commissions.
Anyhow, I’ve been saying to anyone that will listen that Fedor-Rogers should be an Interim Heavyweight Title fight, so that Overeem’s return can be viewed as him attempting to reclaim his crown, rather than Fedor (or Rogers) trying to take it. Fact is, if Brett Rogers beats Fedor, he’ll be the Heavyweight King, belt or not. And Fedor is Fedor, WAMMA be damned. If the UFC can have its champion leave for over a year, introduce an Interim belt, have BOTH champions lose, and then promote the unification as the biggest fight in UFC history, Strikeforce risks nothing by introducing an Interim title.
As for Diaz-Hieron, I think cooler heads will prevail, and we’ll see that fight in December. If the promotion had pretensions about putting together a combined DREAM-Strikeforce event for New Year’s Eve, that fight, as well as Aoki-Melendez and Shamrock-Sakuraba, would be fine additions. However, even playing it straight, a December card with a Cyborg title defense, Diaz-Hieron, and a “#1 Contender” fight between Bigfoot Silva and Fabricio Werdum would be enough to get the fans into the card.
If Roger's beats Fedor...
he is in no way the Heavyweight King. It will just prove that neither is Fedor.
If Fedor wins it, nobody will care either because he’s already considered one of the best to have ever lived. The title talk doesn’t matter. Overeem could have it forever for all I care. It doesn’t change the fact that I don’t care, I just want to see the match-ups.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 6, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
he is in no way the Heavyweight King. It will just prove that neither is Fedor
Yeah because Fedor hasn’t dominated the division for 7 years
Sigh...BUT IF HE LOSES TO ROGERS, THEN IT WILL SHOW HIM TO NOT BE THE KING WE THINK HE IS.
Sound good?
I think it also means...
….If I’m reading my bible correctly, that famine will break out across Europe and Indonesia will be covered in lentil soup.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
I’m a bit sick of this whole title argument.
Since when does the Strikeforce HW championship really even matter? Does it really matter if Fedor or Rogers have the belt? Not really. Any casual fan will tell you the UFC holds the belt everyone wants, and any hardcore fan can see that it doesn’t matter in the worldwide landscape of the heavyweight division.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 6, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
“Alistair Overeem: Start timing your cycles”
Flagged for fighter bashing. A man is innocent until proven guilty, and just because some people are naturally larger than others doesn’t mean that….
Oh, wait – did you say Alistair Overeem? REC’D FOR TRUTH.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Oct 6, 2009 2:06 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
I honestly somewhat have a problem with insinuating that Overeem juices, even though it’s the general consensus thought by most people. I mean, technically… he is innocent until proven guilty.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 6, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I hate the whole argument because is JUST assumptions and opinions. I feel people are just trying to find a person to point a finger at right now and as soon as they get over him that finger will probably point at someone else.
Twitter ain't no bitch homie! -> @El_Duderino1312
Let me introduce you to Google image search
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
Dude, everyone’s seen the pictures… everyone’s heard the arguments from both sides. Until his piss is proven hot, we don’t need to mention steroids every time his name is brought up. Does that google image search prove anything?… No
Twitter ain't no bitch homie! -> @El_Duderino1312
Certainly.
I mean its not like he is starting to display a pattern of avoiding fights in states/countries that test for PEDs or anything…
Exactly.
If you’ve come to debate WHETHER OR NOT he juices, maybe you’d also like to engage in such classics as “Does the earth go around the sun?” “Does gravity make things fall or is it leprechauns?” and “Does Kevin Federline have some kind of voodoo powers to ruin hot little musicians?”
Because the answer is YES to all of those.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
What a ridiculous statement I can not believe the ignorance, implying that Britney is hot or little for shame sir for shame.
Well not since she's been ruined!
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
Yeah
As proven here.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
The point I’m bringing up isn’t whether or not he juices. OF COURSE HE JUICES. That’s not even up for debate.
My point is that Nate is doing something that the mods would ban a lot of folks for. I mean, there’s EXACTLY as much evidence that Overeem juices as, say, Fedor. And there’s MORE evidence than Brock juices than either (I was just holding these “substances” for a friend, officer!). But go get yourself another ID (which it’s becoming pretty obvious that a LOT of people on this site are doing. “Chuck, you are so right!” “Thanks, Chuck!”) and see how long it lasts after calling Brock or Fedor a steroid user.
And that makes baby Jesus cry.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
this isn't a democracy and not all posters are created equal
deal with it.
You for example are cut an enormous amount of latitude because you’re funny and have been here a long time.
BloodyElbow, like life, is not fair.
We mercilessly police the comments because we like to have a civil and relatively intelligent discussion. There are plenty of places to go online to indulge in fighter bashing.
But here’s the thing about the front page posts — we’re pretty high profile at BE. When we post something we have to stand behind it because people know who we are.
My comment was a bit tongue in cheek but I also recognize the implications of what I wrote and am willing to deal with the consequences.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Fair enough.
Your site, your rules.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
Poking the tiger here...
“My comment was a bit tongue in cheek but I also recognize the implications of what I wrote and am willing to deal with the consequences”
Like BE posters calling you out?
I keed, I keed.
ducking the Ban Hammer
that's the beauty of our community
they keep us honest and do their best to keep me from forgetting all but the most basic facts.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Honesty and censorship don't mix
By the way that motto is very democratic of you, just ask the people that protest in the designated “free speech” zones.
this is a private web site
we are your hosts, you are our guests.
BloodyElbow has no citizens. There are no rights.
No one is being censored, there are plenty of other places to go bash fighters.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Wow
So all those advertisements that I see on this site thats just my hosts decorations? Your tyrant stand point is very post 9/11 of you but really man? Come on. Without members or posters you really would have a “private web site”. I bet the SB nation loves your stance of how privilaged it is to be a member here. I don’t mind the rules and they are pretty easy to follow common sense conquers all and I’m not saying that they shouldn’t be followed but for someone with the ability to ban a user (I’d imagine I’m probaly next) to blatantly break said rules and then say it’s a private web site and that we are all just guests and do as I say not as I do is enough for me to not care wether you ban me or not.
Yeah I know there are plenty of other places to go for MMA news or fighter bashing (I found BE on cagepotato) just a quick question: All those sites you cut and paste from are they private too? Just want to make sure I am aware of my second class citizenship before I view someone elses BLOG
Have you been under the dome?
It doesn’t seem very complicated to me, but no one here or on sherdog seems to get it.
The rule of fighter bashing does not apply to people who run the site because they run the site and they can be held accountable for the things they say.
You, MrBlond3, me Phildo, and everyone else with a bullshit screen name that didn’t create this site are nobodies, and no one is really going to come find us and hold us accountable with what we say. If we say something stupid, the people that run this site are going to be held accountable. If they type something, they are going to be held accountable, so they can say what they want, and we can say what they want. If you don’t like it, start your own website and let people do whatever the fuck they want to, and you deal with the backlash.
by Phildo on Oct 6, 2009 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And where would this site or any other site be without us nobodies? I’m not saying that users can do or post whatever they want it’s just the matter of the hypocrisy in their rules or the lack their of for the “hosts”.
Have you been under the dome?
It’s not hypocrisy, it’s common sense.
The people that have to deal with the consequences of “fighter bashing” are allowed to do it.
Oh I get it that whole who will guard the guards themselves? My bad I can see how that would be common sense just obey because someone says so. Sheeple never cease to amaze me.
Have you been under the dome?
This isn’t the fucking patriot act, this is Nate’s website.
You can “make your stand” over something as stupid as this, I’ll be with everyone else giving a shit about things that matter.
Not making a stand just a point but thanks for jumping in. Your input was well not sure how to say it
Have you been under the dome?
banned
Rule #4 — don’t piss off the writers on the site.
We do this as a hobby, sure we get paid a tiny little bit of money, but still far less than my hourly rate as a consultant. My time on BloodyElbow is time away from my paying work and from my family.
When people make it unfun, I don’t want them around. Good bye.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
No problem.
I just don’t get it. This isn’t magical fairy land where everyone is created equally. I can understand that. If that makes me a sheep, fine. Baa
Dude, with the right prescriptions...
…it IS a magical fairy land.
But I’m on the side of pointing out when the mods are crossing the line. It’s fine to have different rules for the mods and the users, but those rules shouldn’t be WILDLY divergent.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
Diaz, Nevada, and Out of Competition Testing
fight in Nevada, a commission that hasn’t shown any proclivity for surprise tests.
In fact, Nevada was the first state to test their licensed fighters out of competition, which, to me, shows a proclivity for surprise tests.
...Behold, a pale horse. The man that sat upon it was Wieters, and hell followed with him.
"BJ on the BE" - Kierkegaard
And wasn't he busted in NV for pot in the first place?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
yes but it wasn't a surprise test
it was right before the fight. Diaz has since shown he can handle pre-fight tests, it was just the spector of an unannounced test a few weeks out from the fight that spooked him.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
By which you mean
that he can’t handle them, as evidenced by him failing that test….
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
that I believe was the first time he actually got tested
or the first time they bothered to check for THC, can’t remember which he said it was. But after that he figured out the program and learned how to prep for the tests.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Shut the fuck up Jay Hieron. It’s Nick’s fault that you can’t find anyone to fight? Look what Cung Le did to strikeforce and it’s a revelation that other fighters don’t respect their contracts? Anyone ever think that maybe just maybe Nick and or Alistair are trying to get out of their contracts?
Cool down Cesar,
If I can call you Cesar.
Its not Jay’s fault that either of his last 2 fights have been cancelled. Hell, he has done everything expected of a professional fighter, just too bad the company he works for doesn’t employ more people like him.
You drove my point home with the “too bad the company he works for doesn’t employ more people like him” It’s not his responsibility to ensure the strikefarce roster is plentiful for Jay Hieron. Jay shold just go fight some scrub in Japan I’m sure that makes sense for him oh wait…
PS
yes you can call me Cesar as long as you look in my eyes when you do
Oh, it’s so nice to see that Nick’s management is taking such a civilized and mature stance to this matter.
by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Oct 6, 2009 6:30 PM EDT reply actions

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