The Robbery of Chase Beebe and Incompetency of Virginia's Athletic Commission: Part 1
"That was a crime. That was a crime."
-- Referee "Big" John McCarthy to me, in reference to the decision by the judges of the Virginia state athletic commission to award a split decision victory to Mike Easton over Chase Beebe.
In one of the most egregious examples of moronic and breathtakingly inept judging that I have ever personally witnessed in professional MMA, Mike "The Hulk" Easton was awarded a split decision victory over Chase "The Rage" Beebe this past Saturday as part of the main event of UWC 7: Redemption. To anyone with even a cursory understanding of how MMA fights are judged and evaluated, Beebe clearly won the contest and did so handily. The suggestion that the fight was close is not even remotely justifiable. Easton certainly did not absorb a strong amount of physical damage, but was positionally controlled over prolonged periods of time in four separate rounds by Beebe. The Chicago native did more than enough to win. He had it 49-46 on my score cards.
The reality is this: I have a tremendous amount of respect for Mike Easton and Team Lloyd Irvin (TLI). In fact, I consider him a friend. Easton was one of the first teachers I ever had when I first began training at the TLI facilities in Camp Springs, MD. I have deep respect for him as a person and hold profound admiration for his coach and trainer, Lloyd Irvin. Easton is an excellent fighter with certifiable upside and put on a solid performance against Beebe this past Saturday evening. But as spirited as it was, Easton did not win that fight. I awarded round two to Easton for out striking Beebe and for cage generalship. However, in the other rounds, Beebe used effective wrestling to plant Easton on the mat and superior grappling to both take and hold Easton's back. For the vast majority of the first, third, fourth and fifth rounds, Beebe was able to control Easton's back for several minutes while threatening with chokes and scoring points with less than damaging but conspicuous punches to Easton's ears and face. In short: he completely controlled Easton, threatened him with striking and effective grappling and did so for sustained amounts of time.
Noticeably, in every instance where Beebe was able to take Easton's back, referee "Big" John McCarthy never stood the pair up. Just as he did in the Couture vs. Sylvia fight, McCarthy recognized back control is a highly advantageous, damaging position that by its very nature implies the fighter who is being controlled is in serious trouble. Back control, by definition, is an offensive position. With your back taken, you are arguably in the most defensive position in all of MMA or grappling. You cannot strike effectively and virtually all grappling opportunities from that position are nothing but defensive maneuvering. To a white belt student with six months of grappling, this is common knowledge.
So, who is to blame here? Without equivocation, the judges of the Virginia athletic commission. Mike Easton is not to blame and did nothing wrong. Neither is the UWC who does not have the legal authority to assign judges for professional MMA contests. Instead we are talking about athletic commission judges so inept they do not have the capability to properly evaluate even amateur contests, much less the biggest and most significant MMA fight ever held in the Washington, D.C. area. That they don't even recognize what constitutes effective grappling is abominable; that they were allowed to wield this lack of knowledge during the most significant bout of the evening is downright negligent on the part of those who assigned them their duties.
But something else is rotten in Denmark: the Virginia commission itself. Let me be absolutely clear about this so everyone can get a good look: this is one of the most heavy-handed, incompetent and undeserving athletic commissions I have ever had the displeasure of watching operate. To watch them work is to suffer. As I will detail over the coming week, they are a group that is in no position to be sanctioning and regulating professional MMA. Their judges are utterly clueless, their existing judging criteria is an abortion of proper standards and the officials in place are ineffectual bullies who are thoroughly unfamiliar with law and historical precedent. In their present state, they are a threat to the growth of MMA.
Lastly, I want to say I do not write this as a representative of the UWC. They did not ask me to author any protest. I am writing this in outrage as a fan of MMA and a DC resident. Athletic commissions, particularly those that are grossly negligent and maladroit, do not get to tell us what to do. The performance they turned in Saturday evening evidences their inability to discharge the duties assigned to them by the state and if they had the slightest sense of shame, they'd internally investigate the judges who scored the fight for Easton. I also contend they should put a temporary moratorium on sanctioning and regulating professional MMA until more competent officials can be cobbled together and the existing rules on judging can be modified (for the record, Beebe still wins even under their outrageously illogical system; I'll explain in a later post).
I neither manage Chase Beebe nor run the UWC. But in my opinion, Beebe's team should ask the commission for a review of the judging to get the decision overturned. I also believe the UWC should book an immediate rematch and hold the fight in either Maryland or Washington, D.C. as Virginia has proven itself incapable of the task of proper regulation. And if I had my way, I would not hold subsequent UWC events in Virginia until the commission makes serious and meaningful operational changes to their staff and laws.
For years I have been championing state governments overturning bans on or electing to regulate MMA. The "Lift the Ban Watch" series has been a testament to that development. But perhaps the joke is on us. While it sounds pleasant to have no states banning MMA or refusing to regulate it, we go from the frying pan into the fire when we realize their inept regulation is downright harmful to the sport and its participants. Willing though they may be, the apparatus of regulation across America is woefully amateurish and causing serious problems for the fighters, promoters and fans of MMA.
We must put a stop to this.
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73 comments
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Comments
I hope you keep pushing this issue and help get it overturned. Keep on keeping on, Luke.
by dumbwhiteguy on Oct 5, 2009 1:07 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
It was absolutely robbery of the year at this point...
And it might be the most ridiculous judging snafu I’ve seen since I can remember. I watched this entire bout thinking… 49-46 Beebe easily. I was right in line with what Nate was updating, and I thought nothing of it, until the scores came out.
I thought they mixed the names up on the card, to be perfectly honest. It baffles me how anyone can judge a fight in that manner. Fans in the crowd with no understanding of MMA probably would have given that fight to Beebe.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 5, 2009 1:14 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd
The VA commission needs to have the spotlight on it, pronto.
by Scott Haber on Oct 5, 2009 1:14 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
It's not rec'd unless you hit the rec button
click “actions” > “Rec”
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Oct 5, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The story, not the comment!
I think he did it on the comment. Ha
I STILL poop rainbows.
by Blackout612 on Oct 5, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
MMA is successful enough, modern day, that major organizations lobbying for regulation may need to turn the tables, so to speak. MMA is profitable to these territories; so Zuffa and the various other pro-MMA constituents need to begin asking the remaining unregulated states for higher standards in their athletic commissions. I haven’t seen this fight to know how outrageous the scoring was, but I’m aware of the many sources that are angered by it. I’ve long said that one of the most poisonous elements of our sport is the lack of credible judging. Lengths need to be taken to refine the criteria and methods for scoring fights, so results like this can be explained properly.
I STILL poop rainbows.
by Blackout612 on Oct 5, 2009 1:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hell Yeah
This was a clear case of highway robbery, the other bouts were all judged with at least some respect to who actually won them (see: Runez/Dodson) meanwhile the Easton/Beebe fight was judged via opposite day rules.
Easton landed better strikes standing, no doubt about that, however; Beebe controlled more than half of the fight via having both hooks in on Eastons back, while not flattened out (until the final round) this is essentially the second worst position you can have in grappling, much less MMA where you can actually be hit.
All of the people I was there with from the camp I train at were laughing this one off as a positional dominance decision and admonishing Easton for not going for broke to try to improve his position; the HUGE group of Capital Jiu Jitsu people sitting near us were also talking the fight off by the 4th round after Easton showed inability to defend the take down or shake Beebe off of back control… or even keep his hooks out. There is just no way that the judges in this fight should have their jobs, they completely ignored reality and shot the decision to who had the crowd behind them (Easton had an abundance of folks behind him, myself included, not just because he’s the hometown guy but Team Lloyd Irvin had a bajillion folks at the event… cool new logo btw).
I cannot believe anyone, Easton, Irvin, Judges, Anyone… thinks Easton won this fight, it just isn’t the truth and it made a huge dent in my opinion of the VA commission as well as not exactly being an acceptable ending to a night of very good fights.
I’m hugely disappointed in the decision and hope there’s some way to have it contested, or at least I hope that something good will come of this.
As an aside; I didn’t get to hear the commentary because of actually being there but from what I read around the area and hear from people I hear Luke did a bang up job and was one of the best things about the show.
Second aside: Lights going off during omoplata attempt… not cool.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by AboveThisFire on Oct 5, 2009 1:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
As an aside; I didn’t get to hear the commentary because of actually being there but from what I read around the area and hear from people I hear Luke did a bang up job and was one of the best things about the show
Out of curiosity, Luke, how hard was it for you to maintain your cool when the result was announced? I didn’t see the broadcast, and considering the ludicrosity (new word) of the decision, I wouldn’t have blamed you for dropping some choice words.
"That feeling after you win and they raise your hand... it's like you have this energy that releases from your body, and it's like you mingle with the cosmos, and you feel omnipotent"
by woomikee on Oct 5, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
From what I understand… he expressed his displeasure effectively!
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by AboveThisFire on Oct 5, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
At the end of the broadcast I said the fight should’ve been scored 49-46 Beebe and that the judges had no business evaluating MMA fights. That was blasted into the arena and the standard broadcast feed. Not sure who all heard it at home, but I got booed in the arena.
by Luke Thomas on Oct 5, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I cheered.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by AboveThisFire on Oct 5, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Remember MFC, Eastman was robbed by hometown judges.
It happens everywhere and it fucking sucks.
by Meshuggeth on Oct 5, 2009 1:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Easton "Wins" Against Beebe
Luke,
To what extent do you feel the judging in the Easton v. Beebe fight was retribution for Beebe having put the Virginia Athletic Commission in a spot when last he was scheduled to fight Mike Easton?
When Steve told me that the judges robbed Beebe, My immediate reaction was “of course they did. They were looking to pursue legal action against Beebe, so why wouldn’t they skew the judging in favor of the home town boy?”
That, to me, is a worse circumstance than the ignorance about which you are so livid.
...Behold, a pale horse. The man that sat upon it was Wieters, and hell followed with him.
"BJ on the BE" - Kierkegaard
by Brett Jones on Oct 5, 2009 1:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think it was the UWC going after Beebe and not the AC. The AC doesn’t care who fights and they control the judges. But if there was a bias then that would be a crime punishable. And that should be a question asked in any investigation.
by szucconi on Oct 5, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This fight was Beebe and his management trying to let bygones be bygones with the previous shit that went down. Again, I don’t speak for the UWC, but I can tell you if Beebe had won there were plans on hosting a show in Chicago. It doesn’t benefit the UWC to get decisions like this because the casual fan now thinks the fix is in and that the UWC champ is illegitimate.
There was no beef with Beebe or his management going into this fight on the part of the UWC…from my vantage point, anyway.
by Luke Thomas on Oct 5, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and that the UWC champ is illegitimate.
Which it now is in the case of BW. But the Flyweight title remains the most legit title in north america and for me a fight of the year candidate. The way Runez came back in that fight and got Dodson in trouble, awesome.
by szucconi on Oct 5, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right. Runez is the leading man in the flyweight division in North America now. His performance on Saturday was absolutely incredible. He is tough as nails.
by Luke Thomas on Oct 5, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right. Runez is the leading man in the flyweight division in North America now.
Over Rambaa Somdet? Or are you discounting him because he’s only had the one fight over here?
...Behold, a pale horse. The man that sat upon it was Wieters, and hell followed with him.
"BJ on the BE" - Kierkegaard
by Brett Jones on Oct 5, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I want Somdet v. Runez, don’t get me wrong, but the run Runez is on is fantastic and they were in the same torney and Runez won it. Granted he didn’t beat Somdet because Somdet dropped out, but Runez is top dog right now.
by szucconi on Oct 5, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d pay to see that fight, although M-16 is all sorts of crazy.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 5, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d pay to see that fight, although M-16 is all sorts of crazy.
Although? Hell, that’s the most compelling part of the match up.
...Behold, a pale horse. The man that sat upon it was Wieters, and hell followed with him.
"BJ on the BE" - Kierkegaard
by Brett Jones on Oct 5, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can make a case for Somdet, sure, especially with the Sugawara win. But it’s really, really close. And Runez is from North America whereas Somdet has competed here.
by Luke Thomas on Oct 5, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That fight was absolutely awesome, everyone in the Patriot Center thought Runez was complete TOAST after the second round ended. Runez has mad heart, that was awesome.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by AboveThisFire on Oct 5, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hate dodsons style. It does him a disservice. He needs to engage more. He does fine when he engages. He is fast enough to strike on the inside without clinching and get outside. He is getting a shot in and moving to the other side of the cage. When Runez went in for a shot he followed it with ten more. Now when Runez was in trouble in round two, Dodson did fine going in to finish, he just ran out of time. I just think he is skilled enough to not play such a counter striker. I think he needs to do the stalking.
by szucconi on Oct 5, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He did bounce around a little much and I think he wanted to play a counter striking game plan, it just didn’t seem to gel together for the most part.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by AboveThisFire on Oct 5, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Has the UWC offered any sort of official statement on it?
Even though he lost, a rematch is needed, and the crappiness of this decision could probably help to rile up the locals if they decide to do it in chicago anyway.
by Phildo on Oct 5, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not certain, but I think they’re working on one. That’s what I heard, anyway.
by Luke Thomas on Oct 5, 2009 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I took my younger brother and my girlfriend who are not at my level of fandom. My little brother particularly has zero knowledge of MMA and mostly went because he lives close to the pat center and I wanted him to. He enjoyed the even for the most part and I was hopeful that I could get him into MMA. And then the scoring of the final fight ruined that. He even knew that Beebe had won. The only thing that helped the bad after taste of the event was every single person walking to there cars was in disbelief of the judging.
The next day I started the gears rolling to try to become a MMA judge my self. Make no mistake at how damaging this is to the sport. Its fine when judges disagree and rounds are questionable, but that was not the case.
by szucconi on Oct 5, 2009 1:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If you judge, for the love of god, please read/watch some jiu jitsu/wrestling instructionals. If you do I’ll be your fan.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by AboveThisFire on Oct 5, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have taken BJJ and have wrestled. I don’t ever want this to happen again. I am not looking for money and I love the sport. I will do anything to contribute.
by szucconi on Oct 5, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank god, please judge.
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
by AboveThisFire on Oct 5, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm also contemplating being either a judge or ref
I’ve looked at the requirements for both in VA and MD. Just haven’t decided which one yet. I’m currently taking BJJ and Muay Thai and took a CMA in the past.
I'm the kind of girl who loves to watch a GOOD fight!
--------
Join the DC Area UFC Meetup Group
http://www.meetup.com/DCUFCGroup
by funnytiger on Oct 5, 2009 3:03 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
How did your seats end up working out for you?
Also, email me the info for apply to be a judge in MD.
...Behold, a pale horse. The man that sat upon it was Wieters, and hell followed with him.
"BJ on the BE" - Kierkegaard
by Brett Jones on Oct 5, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was fine. I think you can see the action just fine from the cheap seats and I never looked at a screen during the fight, only for replays. It was hard to tell who people were when I was pointing them out, but I might prefer sitting up high to non-VIP floor seats.
by szucconi on Oct 5, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"But in my opinion, Beebe's team should ask the commission for a review of the judging to get the decision overturned"
Luke, does the commission have the power to overturn a judges decision?
Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even when you win you are still retarded.
by dnevil001 on Oct 5, 2009 2:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Luke, you made several mentions of Virginia’s illogical judging rules. Do you mean the judges’ scoring system for the fights? I would think that the Unified Rules would be in effect unless the promotion itself had any alterations to the rules. Are there any examples you could mention before posting about them in more detail?
by TDITZ on Oct 5, 2009 2:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Tomorrow’s post will detail what I’m talking about. In truth, it doesn’t even matter in this specific case, but it’s worth talking about to demonstrate just how ridiculous this commission is.
by Luke Thomas on Oct 5, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he will get to that in future articles, but I think boxing and striking over all are weighted above grappling. Not the way it is in the unified rules.
by szucconi on Oct 5, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you criticizing the commission for hiring bad — or just plain inept — judges, or are you saying the judges gave the fight to the hometown boy? If it’s the latter, something needs to be done about this quickly before MMA outside of Nevada and California turns into the corruption we see in boxing all the time, like Diaz vs Malignaggi.
by Excelsior! on Oct 5, 2009 2:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
or just plain inept
my brother said boxing judges was the issue. but I think inept is a good word.
by szucconi on Oct 5, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not accusing them of corruption, just ignorance.
by Luke Thomas on Oct 5, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to beat a dead horse
but this is where that old phrase,“Don’t leave it in the hands of the judges!” comes from. I think that this is the downside to the lighter weight divisions, these guys just don’t have the power to knock out the competition. They have tramendous cardio though, which always makes for a fun fight to watch.
by AceHogg on Oct 5, 2009 4:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think the original sentiment was more “don’t leave it in the hands of the judges, because if it’s close, how knows what could happen,” not, “don’t leave it in the hands of the judges, because even if everyone else thinks you won the fight, they could completely screw you due to gross incompetence.”
by kid_eh on Oct 5, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, the second one is definitely what I tell HS wrestlers
Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "
by duck on Oct 6, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Definitely
Just like my dad says: If it ain’t work, don’t fix it!
by Tedd Welch on Oct 5, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That decision soured an otherwise fun night of fights. I was wondering if anyone else was annoyed by that guy who kept saying, “Rip that Rhino” during the Tim Woods fight.
by Chuck Sakuraba on Oct 5, 2009 4:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
We had a very drunk group behind us and I almost had to restrain my little brother. He has zero patience for that. But no, I didn’t hear “Rip that Rhino”
by szucconi on Oct 5, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Digg this article!!!
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Oct 5, 2009 5:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Nice
I have no knowledge of this fight, and thus, can’t comment on the substantive merits—but props to Luke for going against the grain and writing such an article in the first place.
by Rob Maysey on Oct 5, 2009 5:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but when is the commission going to ban Easton from fighting in his underwear? That was uncalled for.
I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on Oct 5, 2009 5:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I am used to him fighting in the tight shorts, but those were underwear. And Beebe was on the other end of the scale with hugely oversized board shorts.
by szucconi on Oct 5, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Luke, tell the UWC guys that we’d love to have them come run a show in North Carolina. Let me know if you think they’d be interested.
by SlickRick00 on Oct 5, 2009 8:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Luke Thomas over at Bloody Elbow has published the first part of an in-depth look at Mike Easton’s controversial victory over Chase Beebe at last weekend’s "UWC: Redemption" card.
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Easton landed a split decision victory in a fight that Beebe obviously won. Beebe dominated the fight so completely that it’s incomprehensible that Easton was awarded the victory. "Big" John McCarthy, who served as the referee for the bout, called the decision a "crime", and many are calling for an official investigation into the judges that the Virgina athletic commission appointed for the bout.
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Luke’s piece is a must-read, and I urge you to go take a look.
by Anton Tabuena on Oct 5, 2009 10:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Luke, fantastic job
I’m really looking forward to tomorrow’s installment. It’s important that as much noise and fuss and revelations be made about these things as possible :)
by Tedd Welch on Oct 5, 2009 11:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
UWC fight
Wow…I guess you take someone’s championship away with lay-and-pray? Taking someone down and being more concerned with holding them there then inflicting any real damage shouldn’t give you a fight, much less a championship.I was at a ringsided table, and no, I’m not a judge, but I can tell you the few times Chase did attempt strikes all but two of them were blocked. Mike was the aggressor, landed far more strikes and was the only fighter to inflict any damage during the bout. 2 to 3 RNC attempts where Chase’s arm never made it past Mike’s chin don’t really amount to much. Easton was calmly talking to Lloyd Irvin the entire time he was on the ground and you’d best believe nobody was talking to either corner when they were on their feet. Man, I haven’t seen some folks this upset since the days days of Tommy Morrision and Cooney. . I guess the next time folks want another Morrison they should look to someone else who didn’t claim an injury for the previous fight and ended up fighting two weeks later in Japan..
by Warhog on Oct 6, 2009 1:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This is the most insane and thoroughly incorrect version of events I’ve read to date. You couldn’t possibly be more wrong.
by Luke Thomas on Oct 6, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If there were "2 to 3 RNC attempts"
that tells me Bebee already had his back. That’s a pretty dominating (and scoring) position right there.
Easton was calmly talking to Lloyd Irvin the entire time he was on the ground
… being controlled by the other fighter?
You’re not really helping your cause here.
Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "
by duck on Oct 6, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you give zero points for control. Beebe was in an offensive position and he did in fact land a few strikes as well as go for the choke the whole time. Easton has good choke defense, but that all he could do. This is what ground game is. Control. Domination. Working for a sub. No reasonable person, from where I stand, can make a case for Easton winning that fight. And I am a huge Easton fan and I was at the fight as well.
by szucconi on Oct 6, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wrestling is about control and domination. MMA is about working to finish a fight. Easton was the only one working to finish the fight. Easton won the striking game. Beebe won the mat game. Easton worked throughout to try to end the fight. Beebe didn't
by Warhog on Oct 6, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I completely disagree. Beebe did work to finish and worked the choke the whole time. The thing about the RNC is that you can’t get it on a fresh guy unless they make a mistake. Not getting is not the same as not trying to get it. Anyway, having the back in MMA is the same as having a guys back facing the ground and gaining back points in wrestling. If most of the round is spent grappling then grappling weighs heavier in judging. and in grappling when you take someones back and ride them like Beebe did Easton, you get a shit ton of points. Read the guidelines for judging fights if you are confused.
by szucconi on Oct 6, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
2-3 attempts over 5 rounds is not working to get the choke the whole time. It was the only submission he attempted and his game is jiu jitsu. You don’t judge a round by the amount of minutes anyone is doing anything, whether it be grappling, striking, or wrestling. Your argument implies that someone could lay and pray for 4 minutes of a round and when they’re on the feet for the other minute of the round the lay and pray guy almost gets knocked out by flurries but still ends up winning the round.That’s extremes of course but Beebe didn’t spend more the half the round with Easton in that position in any but two rounds. I gave those rounds to Beebe.
by Warhog on Oct 7, 2009 6:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You must need to have your eyes checked. He did NOT just try the RNC 2-3 times. He was working it the whole time he was on Eastons back. And Beebe’s game is wrestling. It is in no way jiu jitsu. He has great sub defense, but his offence has never been great. He most definitly has eastons back for most of rounds 3, 4 and 5. Round 1 was close enough that someone who does’t know anything about grappling could have given it to Easton. Round 2, I gave to Easton. As far as LnP for 4 minutes of a round, that is ineffective grappling. you get points for the takedown, sure, but that in no way equals a knock down. This was not LnP, this was having Easton in back control. Back control is easily the most dominate position in the sport. If you don’t understand the differents between LnP and back control then why are you at a UWC show?
by szucconi on Oct 7, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
obvious troll is obvious
clearly was not at the fights
by dizzy87 on Oct 13, 2009 6:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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