Is The Ultimate Fighter Doing More Harm Than Good?
This is the question posed by Steve Cofield at Yahoo! Sports:
How much damage does a fight like Matt Mitrione versus Scott Junk do with a casual fan who's giving the sport a try for the first time? They beat the snot out of each other and took massive shots, but they were exhausted three minutes into the fight. Maybe that's why the Kimbo fight was on Episode three, this way Spike/UFC could avoid a massive audience of new fans seeing the embarrassing lack of conditioning on display.
While clearly I've had issues with some of Cofields work in the past I am completely on board with him in wondering what the impact of the show on casual minds is at this point. While I still enjoy the show it certainly isn't because the fights are great or really for any reason other than I'm a man who enjoys a little "junk food TV" now and then. Hardcore fans like those that write for and read this site are able to discern between the legitimate high level competition in the UFC and the worse-than-awful mess that have been the TUF fights this season. However, the casual observer is going to tune in to watch the show and see a fight like Mitrione vs. Junk and then see the UFC President lauding it as a tremendous war and possibly leave with the impression that this is what those in charge of the sport view as the pinnacle of competition.
Really, the most damaging thing about last night's episode is White's behavior. He seems so desperate to see two guys throwing haymakers and eating clean shots that the context in which it happens becomes unimportant. Griffin/Bonnar was a watershed moment for the sport, it represented two truly skilled fighters who were fighting to achieve a place in the biggest promotion in the world. Sure it was sloppy, but it had drama and it had meaning. A fight like we got last night was not the mark of two fighters who were so desperate to achieve their dreams that they were abandoning reasonable technique in favor of "going to war" it was simply two fighters who were desperate due to limited skillsets and poor physical conditioning.
While we as hardcore fans can understand that this fight was nearly as bad as it gets in MMA, the casual fan is only going to see Dana White gushing over two men winging arm punches in between long periods of sucking all the air out of the room and wonder if this is truly as good as it gets.
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It always happens. I try to get all my buddies to watch this and the time they watch it they show two guys gassing horribly. I was embarrased. =(
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Oct 29, 2009 2:03 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Murphy’s law
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 29, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup
But when Im watching alone there is always a crazy awesome fight and I’m like, “THIS fight would make anyone a fan of MMA!” =(
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Oct 29, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn’t paint the entire show as a bad idea, but last nights fight showed how shallow the heavyweight division is. Heavyweight’s aren’t exactly known for cardio, more for hard hits. There have been plenty of fights from other seasons that compensate for yesterday’s performance.
by cyke on Oct 29, 2009 2:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It’s easy to solve this.
The tryout consists of a five-mile run, grappling, and striking. Those who puke during the run are out. Those who finish with a time in the HOURS are out.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 29, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure.
I’m not expecting a heavyweight to run 5 minute miles for 5 miles, but 7-10 minutes per mile isn’t completely ridiculous to ask.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 29, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you run??
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by VeeisAnimated on Oct 29, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I run about a 5:30 mile.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 29, 2009 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even if you didn’t run, you’re also not competing on television as a professional athlete.
by kid_eh on Oct 29, 2009 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t mean to pry but are you over 205lbs?
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by VeeisAnimated on Oct 29, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m 220 right now, pushing back down to my semi-pro hockey weight of 190, although 200 is ideal for me.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 29, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just think that you would be hard pressed to find a GROUP of 230 – 265lbs. running 10-minute miles.
The guys this season look really bad.
BTW, Leland Roling >>> VeeisAnimated
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by VeeisAnimated on Oct 29, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know. In high school, I knew a couple of 300 lb guys that could eek out 11 minute miles while also walking 1/3 of the time.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 29, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Question is
Were they exceptions or the rule?
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by funnytiger on Oct 29, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I don’t know. They weren’t athletic guys, weren’t guys on the football team, but it was high school. A little more active I guess
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 29, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shouldn't MMA athletes BE the execption, not the rule?
If any 250 lb guys would be able to run 10:00 miles, it should be those training for a sport that requires cardio.
"I would approve signing a pitcher that ate kitten tacos if he won 20 games a year." -BPinOK
by duck on Oct 29, 2009 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When I was in high school I could run a 5k in 30 minutes and I weighed 280, last year I ran 4 miles in about 40 minutes. I don’t running 5 miles in an hour is too much to ask for people who plan on fighting for a living.
by Captain7 on Oct 29, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
remind me never to fuck with Leland …
█♣█
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Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who -- Jay-Z
by thetakeover on Oct 29, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't fuck with Leland!
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 29, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I ran a 5:30 mile a long fucking time ago for one, and two… that was without running five miles. I was going all out and nearly died at the end.
Today, I could probably run it in 6:30 and with the proper training for a few weeks, get back into that sort of shape to run a mile, but five miles… no way.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 29, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I still say . . . Leland Roling > VeeisAnimated.
I WISH I COULD RUN 6:30 miles for at least 3 miles. I’m in the gym, steadily getting back into shape. I think the best I’ve done was 3.4 miles 26 or 27 minutes
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by VeeisAnimated on Oct 29, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ask about the armbar story.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Oct 29, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mean the shittiest armbar ever on a mugger story?
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 29, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The one that ended with the cops and a broken arm.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Oct 29, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, the one in which I’m pretty sure the guy broke his arm while tackling me, but still got caught in a shitty armbar because his arm was “just there”.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 29, 2009 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I want to hear that story. Reminds me of the time I got stabbed jumping in to stop a bunch of gangsters from stomping some kids. From the police report I sound like a badass. In reality… I’m glad no one was filming it.
by nottheface on Oct 29, 2009 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We had something similar locally
We’re a college town, and muggings are up. Local dude picks a college student to mug – who’s been training MMA for about 4 years. The police took a while to call the ambulance for the mugger because they were too busy laughing at him…
"I would approve signing a pitcher that ate kitten tacos if he won 20 games a year." -BPinOK
by duck on Oct 29, 2009 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
bear mace brah
dew yew like it
"he's the best punchy face man in the buisness"
by blubber_guard on Oct 29, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder how much the average soldier weighs? There at least you’ll find men who can do less than 10 mins for a mile, with a 15kg bergen on their backs to boot!
by -Sam on Oct 29, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
COol
. . . but good luck with the HW completing a 5 mile run in a decent time.
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by VeeisAnimated on Oct 29, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, they wouldn’t be 265 probably.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 29, 2009 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cardio is the problem this season, I think the people running the show overestimated how much people love “big guys” and didn’t realize how low the quality of the fighters was.
This is just off the top of my head, so don’t bite my head off, but imagine if this season was Kimbo, Marcus, Roy, Schaub, Wren, Schoonover, Demico, and McSweeney and then 8 LHWs, or even for comedies sake LWs (the drama and reality TV aspects I think would be great if half the house had 100 pounds on the other half of the house)
by Phildo on Oct 29, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's Vince McMahon Disease
He LOVES the big guys. Doesn’t mean they can perform, as long as they look good. Here’s hoping Dana doesn’t copy too much from Vince’s playbook.
"I would approve signing a pitcher that ate kitten tacos if he won 20 games a year." -BPinOK
by duck on Oct 29, 2009 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think he’ll be borrowing this chapter. I really think this is a special case (and a last minute change) because of Kimbo. It would be dumb to not put Kimbo on the show when it became possible. hopefully everyone involved realizes that 16 HWs was a bad move, so if they ever get around to doing HW again, it will be teamed up with another weight class.
by Phildo on Oct 29, 2009 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t see the run as relevent. Was talking to a fighter last weekend who was explaining that traditional cardio is often not the problem. The issue for most guys is muscle fatigue. Traditional cardio work doesn’t help when you just can’t hold your arms up anymore.
by JonathanSnowden on Oct 29, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The run is fairly relevant.
For one, it’ll test some endurance on a baseline level. With so many applicants, you’d have to do something topical at least.
You’re talking about muscle endurance in a situation of explosiveness, which is easily trained and can be tested as well. I just don’t know how viable it would be to do so with the time restrictions and so many applicants.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 29, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's been a while
but didn’t they do a season of that boxing reality show The Contender where the initial applicants had to go through a series of physical assessment tests, and eliminated them by rounds until they had their final cast? That might have been helpful here.
by rzor on Oct 29, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you worked the tryouts into the actual show like an American Idol type of format and SpikeTV was willing to have such a long season, it could be done I guess.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 29, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Contender Season 3
Used the SPARQ testing method to sort out six fighters in the first episode. Ad in a cardio test, and that’s all you would need.
by rzor on Oct 29, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can do the tryouts in 1 or 2 weeks and eliminate the “fight to get in the house” or make it a few episodes and shorten the tournament.
by Phildo on Oct 29, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let me start off by saying I HATE running
Running is relevant in the sense that it helps with GENERAL cardio but every martial art I have ever taken has made a point of saying being able to run 10 miles doesn’t necessarily equal being able to fight for 5 mins. It’s just a completely different breathing pattern/technique used.
I'm the kind of girl who loves to watch a GOOD fight!
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by funnytiger on Oct 29, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very true, but I was going off a baseline test. If there was time, I’d go for suicides or something. Short, bursting stuff or hard sparring sessions against mitts, something to test breathing.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 29, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you
If you can’t do the basics, why should we believe you can do more than that?
I'm the kind of girl who loves to watch a GOOD fight!
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by funnytiger on Oct 29, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s true as hell. I’ve started doing ju jitsu and I do a load of running, but it doesn’t make much of a difference to my fitness. After grapplin for 5 mins I’m not out of breath but I have lost all sort of explosiveness and get subbed easy as hell. I need to mix it up for sure, running helps my legs but my muscle endurance is terrible
The other guys I train with talk about making sure you are fighting fit rather than just fit, and they’re spot on
by StevenGiles on Oct 29, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah. I think this is something hard to understand if you haven’t done it. I ran three ort four miles daily in the Army, but that doesn’t mean you can do five minutes of Combatives without being exhausted. It’s such a different kind of exertion that testing fitness with a run seems crazy.
I can understand how it would make sense. But I don’t think it is a good test for MMA fitness. Even the traditional long boxing runs aren’t done for time like that.
by JonathanSnowden on Oct 29, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And you’re right… traditional cardio is often not a huge problem. I’ve completely switched all of my endurance training from long runs to short bursts and other short, but explosive conditioning regiments, and it helps immensely in fatigue issues.
Although, I haven’t done any of that shit in awhile.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 29, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
out of curiosity
have you tried crossfit? the workouts are ridiculous, but my wife and i love them. i think they’d be ideal for people looking to hone their cardio/overall fitness.
by bobthewriter on Oct 29, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The workout I did about a year and a half ago was sort of my own concoction of circuits and intervals. I’d do a lot of jump roping intertwined in a circuit with boxing a heavy bag, squats, lunges, plyometrics, cardio bike, and kettlebell swings. I’d go through the thing three times and round out the workout with a 10 minute regiment of abs workouts.
I dropped roughly 30 lbs. in about a month. Now, the first 20 for me drops off quick, but I fluctuate from 190 – 220 pretty easily, and I look exactly the same. It’s fucked up, and I kind of hate it because I look the same, hit the scale, and I’m like “God dammit!”.
200 is really my ideal weight, but I could put that program into place for 2 weeks and drop nearly 20 lbs. It worked like magic.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 29, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
crossfit does a lot of the same stuff. when we first started, i dropped about 20 pounds in two weeks, doing “wall-ball,” kettlebell swings, double-unders … varying that with pull-ups, dips, yadda yadda. best part of the workout for me is always finishing with five three-minute rounds on the heavy bag.
only problem was i never quite got the abs i wanted with the crossfit workout. but i felt like i was in MUCH better shape than when i started.
by bobthewriter on Oct 29, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kettlebell swings are all the rage these days, and they really give you a full body workout. I’ve seen people do those plus a few other workouts in circuits and just shred weight.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 29, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
a telling moment for me
was when i ran full-speed up the stairs to my then-fiancee’s apartment and wasn’t even breathing hard. heart rate was normal. that was as good a benefit as the weight-loss.
by bobthewriter on Oct 29, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry,
As long as I’m not getting hit square in the face . . . I can outlast and over-power bigger and stronger guys. But if they’re fit and super-fast . . . that’s my a**.
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by VeeisAnimated on Oct 29, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s easy to solve this.
The tryout consists of a five-mile run, grappling, and striking. Those who puke during the run are out. Those who finish with a time in the HOURS are out.
This was more or less part of the introductory process for seasons one and two.
...Behold, a pale horse. The man that sat upon it was Wieters, and hell followed with him.
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by Brett Jones on Oct 29, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but those two seasons featured actual talent. Now, they throw in personality guys without talent for kicks like Wes Sims.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 29, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+ i enjoyed heartily
leben smashing his leg to rid himself of cramp
"he's the best punchy face man in the buisness"
by blubber_guard on Oct 29, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I say bring back the entrance fight.
Make ‘em one ten-minute round. That’ll clear out some weeds.
by asa on Oct 29, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think they’ll bring it back. I don’t think it was possible this season because of Kimbo and because of talent. If these are the top 16, imagine what another 16 would look like?
by Phildo on Oct 29, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In all honesty
Mitirione actually has some athletic talent. His hand-eye coordination was really good for a guy that size.
He just has a Shivers-esque gas tank. Surely that can be fixed?
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by aaronb on Oct 29, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His hand eye wasn’t terrible, but his technical defense was as bad as you can have it. Put Mitrione in against ANY striker with any boxing background.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 29, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he'd been training instead of icing his shoulder, he'd have been in better shape.
He says he needs an opponent on which to focus for his to train hard. Maybe he’s right.
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by Llewdor on Oct 29, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the crazy thing is, there are sooooooooo many talented up and coming kids out there that would put on incredible fights. but they are so focused on finding “characters” that will make for “good tv” that this is what happens.
the smaller the weight class, the legit prospects they’ll find. forget who would make good reality tv, forget the heavyweights, and instead cast the hungriest 155 and 170 pounders you can find, and the quality of the fights will improve significantly.
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by GregS123 on Oct 29, 2009 2:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree with this. I would love for them to do either a lightweight or featherweight show with Faber and Brown as the coaches. It would help Zuffa in two areas: 1. more entertaining fights and 2. more exposure for the WEC
by Chooch on Oct 29, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know what’s worse…
Junk telling us that he would show what “heart” is in a fight and then gassing inside two minutes, or the fact that Mitrione, with a sizable reach advantage, kept his hands down and about got caught a few times when both men were basically almost kissing each other distance wise.
Here’s an idea….
Follow up this fucking horrible ass season with featherweights and bantamweights. You want to see some insane cardio and speed… there ya go. Suck in casual fans with that excitement.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 29, 2009 2:16 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
OR...
Melvin Manhoef vs. Every Single Shitty TUF Washout Striker
The season would consist of Melvin Manhoef’s dancing, Mike from Mike’s Gym screaming at people, Badr Hari as one of Manhoef’s coaches who continuously tells people he’ll knock them out, and Manhoef’s kid beating someone up after they stole his “binky”.
The season would feature Manhoef vs. a new challenger every week. The season finale would be a Royal Rumble style MMA street fight.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 29, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I’d watch a Cecil Peoples reality show over TUF 10 right now.
It’d be a camera following him around while he tried to make decisions.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 29, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 29, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Follow up this fucking horrible ass season with featherweights and bantamweights. You want to see some insane cardio and speed… there ya go. Suck in casual fans with that excitement.
IMO, anyone who would opposes this should be chained to Luis Cane’s radiator. > :)
by asa on Oct 29, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The fights this season have definitely sucked. I think the show needs a curve ball or something to keep it interesting.
This season I think they had to take the shot with Kimbo once that situation developed. It sucks that they couldn’t find 16 HWs
The main problem with this season has been cardio, and that’s because they went with the 16 HWs, that problem shouldn’t be around in future seasons because they’ll be smaller weights, and hopefully they go back to making people fight to get into the house (you can say it’s a conspiracy to get Kimbo on the show all you want, but if these are the 16 HWs they wound up with, I can’t even imagine what terrible TV the first 2 episodes would have been if they found 16 more.) The fighters really should be going through a training camp before they get to the show, the amount of timme they are there just isn’t long enough to get into shape and get ready to fight.
by Phildo on Oct 29, 2009 2:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
I don’t think you’re ever really going to get casual fans into the UFC unless there is a superstar that draws them in. Many people abandoned basketball after the era of Magic-Bird and Michael Jordan, including NBC.
Ali, Mike Tyson was boxing, heavyweight boxing. The fans of Pacquiao or Mayweather Jr. really don’t care about the sport or exciting undercard matches.
I stop trying to convince my friends, they’re only interested in Kimbo Slice and Brock Lesnar.
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by VeeisAnimated on Oct 29, 2009 2:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
that "fight"
and i use the term loosely, was a horrible display by two guys who aren’t even qualified to buy a ticket to a UFC event. and White’s hyperbole was horrendous, too. i guess i’m really not a fan of most of the HW class … lately i’ve become much more WEC-focused because there’s so much more action, better cardio, more intensity than in many of the UFC cards put on as of late.
i’m hoping we get to see one good fight out of this season’s TUF, but it just doesn’t look like it’s going to happen.
by bobthewriter on Oct 29, 2009 2:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
WEC ROCKS
I don’t think they ever had a dissappointing main event.
Then again we are talking about guys 155 and under.
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by VeeisAnimated on Oct 29, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm dreading the merger idea
because i think that will be the deathblow to WEC and all those great FREE fights.
by bobthewriter on Oct 29, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that fight
was equivalent to UFC 1 material (minus gracie). I hope they don’t do another HW season, the last time they had HW’s I believe most of the fights were also pretty lackluster, but this season is every single fight.
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 29, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it’s really easy to overthink stuff like this and wonder about what might or might not affect the casual fanbase. There’s bad games of football, there’s bad games of everything. There will be peaks and valleys, but the overall direction of the popularity of the sport will be dictated not by individual episodes of of victory and failure. Dana’s behavior is probably a bigger factor, but I think that people who are turned off by that and use it as a reason to dislike the sport, would’ve found another reason to dislike it anyway.
by Dooda on Oct 29, 2009 2:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It's not so much being turned off by it...
as….say you watch an AWFUL NFL game. It’s one of the first games you’ve ever watched. And then Roger Goodell is on your TV telling you that it was an amazing game…etc. That will warp your perception of what a “great” event in the sport is.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 29, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I know that the comparison doesn’t quite jive, but this stuff becomes water under the bridge when a breakout fight captures the headlines and all sorts of casual ears are piqued. The MMA machine will keep rolling along and keep growing. It’s allure is far more transcendent than any bad fight or bad thing that Dana says.
by Dooda on Oct 29, 2009 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Last nights fight looked like a bad tough man competition. What is really sad is these NFL guys are clearly faster and more athletic than the “experienced” mma fighters, but even grossly out of shape, past their prime and greener than an particular jolly giant, they still look better than the other guys. Its like watching one of the episodes of bully beatdown where the bully does well and afterwords you think to yourself “with a couple months of coaching, that bully could own the pro-mma fighter”
by ryanwk628 on Oct 29, 2009 2:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Also, I find that the higher the weightclass, the better chance there’s going to be of a less exciting fight. Of course there’s great fights in every weight class, but you get down to welter and suddenly the fights are action packed skill showcases.
by Dooda on Oct 29, 2009 2:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I know TUF has been a cash cow and instrumental for the UFC, but I’m so tired of the entire format. Actually, last night’s episode was pretty entertaining with Wes Sims becoming “the ninja” and Rashad telling Mitrione how it is. That aside, the show is stagnant. They’ve used Kimbo to juice it up this season, but his inclusion may be much to blame for the awful fighting from “heavyweights.” Because it’s so bad, Dana feels the need to dial up the hyperbole. The show in general relies on, sort of, false drama (will Kimbo return?) every week to sell the show. We’ve been over all the sensationalism in the past.
I’d just like to see a different type of show. Maybe, something that documents the lives of particular fighters, or incorporate some type of tournament for a spot in the UFC. I don’t know. I would think there are people smarter than I on this particular subject who could come up with something good to replace TUF.
by Cannon Jacques on Oct 29, 2009 2:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
My idea would greatly improve the fights, but I’m not sure how it would go off as a TV show (and we have to remember that it’s a TV show. We may be bored of the format and the show, but it isn’t going to change if it still gets the ratings).
I think it would be interesting if they did a camp vs camp style tournament. Camp members always cry if you ask them to fight, so maybe bring in more than 2 camps. If the coaches were bringing their own guys, they’d be higher quality, and they’d be in shape. Real coaches would and in shape fighters would be two huge improvements. If that doesn’t make good enough TV, stop with the whole “16 guys stuck in a house” let them run around vegas and tape them.
by Phildo on Oct 29, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
I realize that the UFC isn’t going to dump TUF until it’s on its last breath, and any show would have to make for interesting TV. I still think that something new and better can be created. I had an idea akin to yours. I wondered if you could adapt an IFL-type team format to a show that would make for good TV. Yes, the IFL went out of business, but we’re not talking about making the UFC into team competitions. It would just be a show. Have champions that could transition onto the UFC roster.
by Cannon Jacques on Oct 29, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I cracked up when Wes did his little Ninja move as Mitrione walked past near the eightball table. Classic.
by Burkey22 on Oct 30, 2009 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
GOUGE OUT MY EYES
after watching tuf last night i had to hurry and rewatch the last wec show just to get that atrocious fight out of my head. this season has been an absolute disappointment and it pains me to think that this is the highest rated tuf season that they have had yet.
That was a real kick and good for laughs and lashings of the old ultraviolent.
by mistake4 on Oct 29, 2009 2:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I did the same thing
because it replayed on Versus last night. I was up till 1am just to watch all those sub attempts and escapes again.
by rzor on Oct 29, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
TUF did not jump the shark
TUF did a double-twist half-gainer with a backflip thrown in for good measure over the shark.
Some time during Season 6, near as our research can determine.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Oct 29, 2009 2:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I was appalled by what I saw last night. I’ve seen enough of TUF by now to not expect a fighter to be in tip top shape. If If he gasses in the second round or something, it’s no big surprise. But last night they gassed within the first half of the first round, and the rest of it was just a painful display of heavy-handed patty-cake. The worst part was waiting for the results after the second round. I was deathly afraid that this thing could possibly be forced into a third round!
I love me some Sexyama!
by pud333 on Oct 29, 2009 2:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
haha
me too, can you imagine a third round with those two? I’m no fighter, but I bet I would be able to get away from all the punches thrown in the second round, you could see them coming from a mile away!
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 29, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was like they were fighting in a vat of molasses. My gf wandered into it during the second round and said, “I not sure what I’m watching, but whatever it is, it ain’t right.”
I love me some Sexyama!
by pud333 on Oct 29, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yesterday’s fight was terrible, absolutely. However, may I remind you that we also just saw 3 weeks where fights ended with submissions? Where was all the bitching about the show killing our precious sport then? Maybe the show should try a little harder to point out the fact that these guys are nowhere near the UFC yet, remind viewers that these fighters are there to learn and improve their game.
by NinjaCodah on Oct 29, 2009 3:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Where was all the bitching about the show killing our precious sport then?
Here.
10/24
by spectaa on Oct 29, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea I thought there has been some good fights this season and it looks like the next round will be interesting. Last night’s fight sucked ass but the actual episode was interesting. Have they ever had a season where every fight was a good one? Heck we are normally lucky if half of them are decent fights. The problem with last night wasn’t the sad ass fight it was White getting all worked up over shitty kickboxing.
by who me on Oct 29, 2009 4:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I don't remember a good fight this season...
the best I can remember is Slice/Nelson. It was sloppy and mostly one sided but the two guys at least kind of seemed to know what they were doing.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 29, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well the fights on TUF are rarely good, the guys they get are the guys they get but then what is important is that the fights are entertaining. I’ve been very impressed by a couple of guys on this season (Madsen, Schaub, Wren and even Demico Rogers managed to stand out) and it looks like the second round of fights should be better. Beyond a doubt the horribly lopsided teams has had a real affect on the fights this season but I have been entertained (the house drama has been better than recent seasons). Heck there is a reason that it took them so long to do a second season of heavyweights, the talent just isn’t there to fill a house with top notch young fighters but a couple of these guys do look to be the real deal. Lets face it all the hardcore fans bitch every year about the show, it’s just a given but this season hasn’t been a shitty as some of the ones that came before. I rather sit through a dozen crappy fights than another season 8.
by who me on Oct 29, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh absolutely...
I’ve always been a big defender of the show. This has been the first year that I’ve been embarrassed by almost every fight. That being said I do think the best guys on the show will make for good fights once they get to give it a go against each other.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 29, 2009 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really want Marcus to stomp Mike C. Marcus Jones has gained a fan this season.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Oct 29, 2009 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Back in the 90s some friends had a UFC tape. The fights I saw were two fat guys slinging punches at each other. I wasn’t impressed. I didn’t look at the sport twice until many years later cause I thought it was basically professional bar room brawling.
So yeah, shitty fights between beached whales hurt the sports growth and reputation.
"an excellent example of why most MMA "journalism" is a joke. Pseudonyms like "toxic" and shitty writing like that dopey article"--- Joe Rogan.
by toxic on Oct 29, 2009 3:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What there was no dan severn or gracie in that tape?
10/24
by spectaa on Oct 29, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All I remember is two guys who were “street fighters”. In hindsight, I suspect one was Tank Abbott. I probably didn’t end up watching the whole video for whatever reason. This was like 1997 or something. Details are hazy.
"an excellent example of why most MMA "journalism" is a joke. Pseudonyms like "toxic" and shitty writing like that dopey article"--- Joe Rogan.
by toxic on Oct 29, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I was the same way — I expected to see drunk frat guys from the crowd jump in the octagon… :)
Fortunately, I caught Griffin/Bonnar 1, and gave it another shot.
by loydb on Oct 29, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I liked this fight
It was entertaining. It was a gassed out brawl.
by wandyman on Oct 29, 2009 3:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I’d like the next season to be 135, 145. Instead of picking up random newbie fighters, just populate the show with the top 11 from each division, with the coaches being the #1 guy.
That would be a good way to get these guys face time, the fights would RULE, I’m sure they could get BJ Penn or someone to make lots of cameos for a recognizable face.
"an excellent example of why most MMA "journalism" is a joke. Pseudonyms like "toxic" and shitty writing like that dopey article"--- Joe Rogan.
by toxic on Oct 29, 2009 4:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Can someone name me a fight that was worse technically in the UFC? This is by far teh worst performance in the cage i have ever see. At least Kalib Starnes had energy to run around
by pandaboy99 on Oct 29, 2009 4:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree with basically every point you made.
I expected terrible fights this season and terrible fights were given. This, the Mcsweeny fight, and Nelson/Kimbo, were all pretty funny to me. People viewing it seriously will no doubt be turned off in a big way though.
I second the Bantamweight/Featherweight idea, the Lightweight season was my favorite.
by omigawda on Oct 29, 2009 4:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Does anyone think that a pride style yellowcard for each fighter would have improved the fight?
by The Lethal Haze on Oct 29, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about a Singapore style of justice?
Referee has a long bamboo cane and fucking cracks you in the back with it.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 29, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I pictured it. I laughed.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Oct 29, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They are not thinking with their dipsticks…
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Oct 29, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
lol he looks like attitude era rocky maivia waiting for a spinebuster
and its making me lol ._.
"he's the best punchy face man in the buisness"
by blubber_guard on Oct 29, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think some of you are expecting too much most of the guys on the show are still fairly new to mma so take it easy on them
Yes, time flies. And where did it leave you? Old too soon...smart too late. - Mike Tyson
by lovingmma25 on Oct 29, 2009 6:02 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
Take it easy on these guys who are trying to earn a spot in the biggest promotion in the world
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
MMA Editor - SBNation.com
by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 29, 2009 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know that doesn’t exactly sound right but these guys have not been training to fight under the biggest promotion. They should have in hindsight but I think after this season all of these guys will be different fighters because all their weaknesses have been exposed. I know last night’s fight was super impressive but neither one of the them quit or gave up to a submission.
Yes, time flies. And where did it leave you? Old too soon...smart too late. - Mike Tyson
by lovingmma25 on Oct 29, 2009 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is DEFINITELY doing more harm then good.
The way I look at it, if you took last nights fight with Dana’s reactions, and played it to the voting body of the NY legislature or whatever, MMA would NOT be legalized in NY for a while.
by nastyem on Oct 29, 2009 7:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good thing you don’t know what you’re talking about.
It was one bad fight. Quality of fights has nothing to do with the NY situation, it’s all politics. Some union has their panties in a bunch about Station Casinos, and they used their power to screw over the Fertitas in NY 2 years ago. Last year it didn’t get through because of bad timing and a bunch of other BS in NY. They have the votes now, so if they get the ball rolling in the beginning of the new year it should be able to work its way through the system.
by Phildo on Oct 29, 2009 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No shit politics has something to do with it. Are you really saying perception has nothing to do with it?
It wasn’t a single poor quality fight, it was 2 unskilled fights barely defending themselves from punches as the president of the biggest MMA promotion in the world CHEERED them on and acted as if it was some amazing showmanship. A lot of those old-timey politician type MMA nay-sayers still have that “human-cockfighting” perception of the sport and that garbage on spike last night does not help.
by nastyem on Oct 29, 2009 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was a bad fight, where no one came close to getting hurt.
A fight with a bad cut or a broken arm between top fighters would do much more damage than that fight could have possibly done.
by Phildo on Oct 29, 2009 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"good thing you don't know what you're talking about"
What are you, 16?
BOOSH
by Farthammer on Oct 29, 2009 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes I’m 16.
1 bad fight with no blood or nothing close to a serious injury is going to stop a million dollar process?
MMA being legalized in NY has nothing to do with MMA, it’s all about money. The Unions had enough money to get their way in the Assembly before, now the State is doing terribly financially and uncle dana is there with a bunch of money.
I don’t feel bad at all telling someone who thinks that fight will have any impact with the NY Assembly doesn’t know what they’re talking about, because they don’t.
by Phildo on Oct 29, 2009 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, since I’m 16 for the time being, I should throw in a lol Farthammer here, right?
by Phildo on Oct 29, 2009 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably not 16. But definitely self-righteous.
Perception is the tool Reilly is using against MMA, and while it may be a losing battle for him, giving him ammo doesn’t help. Makes no impact? I feel that if the perception of untalented barbarism wasn’t a concern, then it would have been legalized already.
by nastyem on Oct 29, 2009 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I apologize in advance for getting a little prickly haha
by nastyem on Oct 30, 2009 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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