How many UFC fighters can 'sell' a PPV on their own
by SDD on Oct 29, 2009 5:47 AM EDT
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Reading the speculation about how well UFC104 was (or wasn't) selling started me wondering how many fighters, purely on their own, can sell a PPV. The criteria I think would be to sell 500,000+ on the PPV. I realise/assume a card which sells even just 200,000 can make a decent profit assuming not too much is spent but I'm guessing that for a card to be 'worthwhile' to an organisation like the UFC in terms of opportunity cost etc. 500,000 would be a reasonable cut-off point.
Bearing in mind that the UFC seem headed towards 1 to 2 PPVs every month, I wondered how many fighters could sell 500,000 just on name recognition alone regardless of opponent or undercard. I realise that you can combine a few reasonably well-known names on a card and probably get over the 500,000 like UFC 106 should but the greater the frequency of cards the thinner the talent is spread and the harder it is to get the casual fan to recognise enough fighters.
After thinking about it, other than Brock Lesnar and perhaps Couture and GSP I am not sure there are many fighters who can sell a card on their own the way Pacquio or Mayweather do in boxing. Part of this may be to do with the fact that the UFC, according to some commentators, promote the brand rather than the individual fighters which is not necessarily a bad thing if it is the case. I wondered what the opinion of others was, how many fighters do you think can carry a card? And if there are say less than 5 then what strategy would they use in relation to broadcasting the cards, would they stick with 1 PPV per month or reduce it or ...?
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For the most part, 1 ppv a month is the plan.
As far as draws go, Forrest did prior to the Silva meltdown. 101 did over 700k. We know Silva and Penn did not put those asses in the seats.
Chuck also still draws.
by Lynchman on Oct 29, 2009 7:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I disagree, I think BJ is a pretty good draw.
by ufc4 on Oct 29, 2009 8:33 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
BJ’s probably a decent draw. At the very least, he guarantees a sell-out crowd if a fight’s in Vegas or California.
by MMAEruption on Oct 29, 2009 8:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
By himself though? I don’t know about that.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 29, 2009 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We should find out next month, there are some decent names on the card with him but nobody who screams big time draw.
by ufc4 on Oct 29, 2009 9:24 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
No one is really by themselves
That’s a bit of a hypothetical as any big show will almost always have a good second bout. Lesnar had this lined up for 106 and now for the New Years show. How about a ranking of drawing power. I haven’t thought about it that much but for discussion purposes
1. Lesnar
2. GSP
3. BJ
4. Anderson
5. Machida
6. Tito
7. Randy
8. Mir
9. Nog
10. Carwin
by SES 84 on Oct 29, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think dropkick’s list below is more accurate, Mir and Carwin have little to no drawing power.
by ufc4 on Oct 29, 2009 10:30 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I think youd be suprised how much of exposure got in fighting Mir twice and beating Noguiera. He definately adds something when combined up against a name.
by Rabbit915 on Oct 29, 2009 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exposure does not equal drawing power.
by ufc4 on Oct 29, 2009 1:38 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I think Mir gets part of the credit for the Massive UFC 100 numbers. Obviously we need to see if he can sell by himself. I think Rampage was an obvious omission on my part.
by SES 84 on Oct 29, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t really think he’s that popular, maybe I’m wrong but the only high selling cards he’s been on have had other bigger names with him (GSP, Brock, Forrest, Rampage, Wandy).
by ufc4 on Oct 29, 2009 3:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
The numbers don’t back that up. Outside of his last two bouts, his ppvs have not done well.
by Lynchman on Oct 29, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bear in mind that Paquiao and Mayweather fight twice a year, tops
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Robert Downey Sr. on Oct 29, 2009 8:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Brock Lesnar fought once this year. GSP twice. Chuck Liddell once. Randy Couture twice.
by ufc4 on Oct 29, 2009 8:36 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
You just listed twice as many fighters as I did
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Robert Downey Sr. on Oct 29, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry I didn’t realize there was only two boxers.
by ufc4 on Oct 29, 2009 1:38 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
don’t worry, it’s okay
;P
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Robert Downey Sr. on Oct 29, 2009 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you look back, Tito is without question the PPV King. Chuck Liddell would never have gotten as popular as he was without Tito turning things into a circus.
by MMAEruption on Oct 29, 2009 8:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Chuck’s peak was because of the TUF, not Tito.
Looking at the overall numbers, GSP’s shows have done more buys than any other fighter in the history of the UFC.
Tito’s last few fights did not draw well, so this will show us whether or not he is still a strong draw.
by Lynchman on Oct 29, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
GSP also had the good fortune of fighting on the same card as Lesnar twice and getting a massive marketing push for UFC 94. He was barely pushed for UFC 100.
by MMAEruption on Oct 29, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But GSP has also drawn strong against Hughes and Serra.
For 100, Lesnar and GSP were both promoted heavily.
by Lynchman on Oct 29, 2009 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Champions & former champions i would think are typically the only ones who can main event a PPV
I'm old school hating Lesnar, I've been hating Lesnar since '08
by MicahW on Oct 29, 2009 8:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Not Randy
We saw that with 102 didn’t we?
Only Brock, GSP I guess, Kimbo, Chuck and probably Tito & Forrest.
BJ would probably be getting close now too.
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Oct 29, 2009 9:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Tito draws against certain people, but his bouts with Evans and Machida did not do stellar numbers.
by Lynchman on Oct 29, 2009 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Evan’s is not a draw despite his talents and Machida was more known back then as a fight who would “run” during the fight so I’m sure most casuals would have stayed away from that fight thinking it would be boring.
First our pleasures die - and then Our hopes, and then our fears - and when These are dead, the debt is due, Dust claims dust - and we die too.
by Pennywise on Oct 31, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He obvious has some drawing power, 102 did over 500,000 buys with no belt on the line and no other draw on the card (Jardin, Big Nog, and Nate are names but I wouldn’t call them draws). That’s better than five other cards this year, including 99, 103, and 104.
by nottheface on Oct 29, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
1. Brock Lesnar
2. Tito Ortiz
3. Georges St. Pierre
4. Randy Couture
5. Rampage Jackson
6. Forrest Griffin
7. Anderson Silva
8. BJ Penn
9. Rich Franklin
10. Wanderlei Silva
by dropkick101 on Oct 29, 2009 10:18 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thoughts
I have a lot of trouble not putting BJ higher.
I’d also like some proof that Tito, Randy, Forrest, Rich and Wandi can still sell coming off of losses.
by SES 84 on Oct 29, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Forrest got KOed before. Randy is the only "legend" with that many losses.
I think they’ll be fine even after their recent losses.
by Anton Tabuena on Oct 29, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tito too.. (but he hasn't fought in a while, so we'll see)
Rich and wand aren’t really Huge draws, but I don’t think their recent losses will decrease their popularity that much.
by Anton Tabuena on Oct 29, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lesnar, GSP, Liddell, Couture. Full stop.
by lhasafi on Oct 29, 2009 10:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Velasquez will soon become a big big draw.
by cauliflower_ears on Oct 29, 2009 10:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Once he develops some punching power or gets a few sick submission wins against top talent, I agree. I think he’ll help develop mma audiences in the latino community, that’s huge.
by TopperHarley on Oct 29, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
500k buys alone? No one! (Okay, maybe Brock. He’d sell a lot even if he’s not with the ufc)
With the UFC brand and a decent undercard, those guys people listed above can reach 500k.
by Anton Tabuena on Oct 29, 2009 11:13 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
By themselves...
Brock Lesnar is the only guy in my mind due to his crossover fanbase. GSP can draw, but if Anderson Silva, who crushes fucking everyone, can’t draw by himself, GSP is slowly on the decline as well by himself.
Lesnar is truly the only guy who could do it himself with a shitty main card right now. Maybe Ortiz if you gave him a solid match-up and had a few months of him running his mouth.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 29, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The difference is that Silva was not drawing before he crushed everyone, GSP has been a draw since day one.
GSP, as both a fighter and person, draws.
by Lynchman on Oct 29, 2009 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lesnar and GSP have had the strongest numbers. Everyone else is a ways behind them.
Think about this: GSP’s rematch with Serra did 530k buys. One month later, Penn/Sherk with Tito/Machida did 475k buys.
by Lynchman on Oct 29, 2009 11:18 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
uhhhhmmmmmm that’s an almost insignificant different.
by dropkick101 on Oct 29, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
GSP, by himself, drew more than Ortiz AND Penn.
by Lynchman on Oct 29, 2009 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think after this season of TUF you’ll see Rashad as a pretty good draw.
by thisredengine on Oct 29, 2009 11:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He might be a draw now. He’s got both Forrest and Chuck on his highlight reel, and I don’t think Hughes vs. Serra can fully explain how well UFC 98 did.
by Jahbulon on Oct 29, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s headlined cards, has a huge season of TUF in which he’s coming off really well as well as 2 highlight fights with Forrest and Chuck. I’d be surprised if in 2010 he isn’t able to carry a card.
by thisredengine on Oct 29, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he’ll be able to draw if he can finish thiago silva, or at least win in a memorable fight.
by dropkick101 on Oct 29, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s what the UFC is looking for. An articulate english speaking LHW. If he convincingly beats Thaigo you’ll see him in a UFC prime time episode.
by thisredengine on Oct 29, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rashad’s stock is going up but I think he needs the Rampage fight to break through to the next level.
by MMAEruption on Oct 29, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The question isn't being answered.
This means if they fought a NOBODY, would it sell.
In the US- Lesnar, Liddell, and Kimbo. Couture didn’t draw crap against Noguiera.
Canada-GSP
England-Bisping
Japan and Korea-Akiyama
…And for shits-
Japanese MMA-Nobody. Even KID Yamamoto can’t carry a card on his own anymore.
by TheAlphaNerd on Oct 29, 2009 2:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Sure, but at the same time, those guys don’t fight “nobodies.” Lesnar and Liddell are obviously always the big draw on a card, but you’ve never seen either guy booked against someone who wasn’t a high caliber opponent with some type of popularity of his own. Lesnar was thrown to the wolves upon entering the UFC. Everyone Liddell has fought for the past few years has been a top 10 opponent. As for Kimbo, he’s never appeared on pay-per-view. The market for people who will watch him on free TV is much different than the market than people who would be willing to shell out cash solely to watch him fight.
Anderson Silva has had to fight Travis Lutter, Thales Leites, and Patrick Cote. I guarantee his fight with Belfort and especially his potential fight with either Hendo or Marquardt after that will do well, even if there’s nobody named Brock, Chuck, Forrest, or GSP on the same card.
by dropkick101 on Oct 29, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To the casual fan, I fear Shogun was a nobody when he fought Chuck. Not a Neil Grove level nobody, but certainly a Patrick Cote level nobody.
HeadKickLegend.com
by Fraser Coffeen on Oct 29, 2009 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here’s the list and their ppv buys as headliners over the last 2 years
1. Brock Lesnar – 2 cards for 2.5 mil
2. Forrest Griffin – 3 cards for 2.59 mil
3. George St. Pierre – 5 cards for 4.2 mil
4. Randy Couture – 2 cards for 1.45 mil
5. Rashard Evans 3 cards for 2.135 mil
6. BJ Penn – 4 cards for 2.55 mil
7. Rampage Jackson 3 cards for 1.89
8. Chuck Liddell 3 cards for 1.85 mil
9. Anderson Silva 4 cards for 2.35 mil
10. Tito Ortiz 1 card for 475,000
Of course it’s skewed by multiple fighters on stacked cards. Rashad gets a huge boost off of fighting on UFC 92 with Rampage, Forrest, and a HW title on the card. Also Anderson is skewed upwards because lately he hasn’t been carrying cards himself. The last time he did, against Cote, he did 325,000 buys. But with Chuck on 97 (625,000 buys) and BJ Penn and Forest and on 101 (1,050,000 buys) his buyrate goes way up. Maybe someone can do a better job of breaking it down, but I thought it would at least help with the discussion.
by nottheface on Oct 29, 2009 3:16 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Nobody can really sell a PPV by themselves...
While some of the aforementioned fighters have a certain drawing power, what sells PPV’s is interesting matches combined with promotion and a back story / rivalry.
by MMArmy on Oct 31, 2009 11:04 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
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