Issue for Strikeforce if Overeem/Fedor happens in Dream

by Matthew Roth on Oct 28, 2009 11:30 AM EDT

This is my first fan post. I've been lurking Bloody Elbow for the past year.

Recently Alistair Overeem stated he'd like to fight Fedor but would prefer the fight happen in Dream. This sentiment was backed up by Dream's Sasahara who stated he'd do everything within his power to have the fight happen under Dream's banner.

It is a known fact that Dream/Strikeforce have a co-promotion agreement but details were never released beyond that Strikeforce fighters can fight in Dream and Dream fighters can fight in Strikeforce. Details such as who pays salaries and financial agreements haven't to my knowledge been released.

If this fight does infact happen in Dream, the question of American distribution rights comes up. Currently Dream has a contract with HDnet to air their fights within the American Market. Strikeforce has a CBS agreement. Mark Cuban spent a ton of his money to air the potential Couture/Fedor fight 2 years ago, so you know that he won't give up a Fedor fight without getting compensated.

I'd like to hear some other people's thoughts on the matter.

The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.

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Welcome aboard.

Dream’s Sasahara… stated he’d do everything within his power to have the fight happen under Dream’s banner.

I don’t think he put it that strongly, but regardless, Sasahara really has zero power or influence in DREAM’s decision- or matchmaking. He’s just a figurehead, a front man who talks to the reporters and disseminates information, like you-know-who out in Vegas.

It is a known fact that Dream/Strikeforce have a co-promotion agreement but details were never released beyond that Strikeforce fighters can fight in Dream and Dream fighters can fight in Strikeforce. Details such as who pays salaries and financial agreements haven’t to my knowledge been released.

That’s because, from what I’ve heard, there’s no real agreement in place. I’m not sure how the broadcasting rights would be sorted out if this fight were to happen in DREAM, but I seriously doubt it will. I’d be really surprised if Fedor’s next 3-4 fights aren’t all with Strikeforce.

by Chris Nelson on Oct 28, 2009 12:01 PM EDT reply actions

Yes, from all things we’ve heard… they may strike deals on an event by event basis. There isn’t an actual agreement in place in my mind, as Chris points out.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Oct 28, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions

Easy answer. This will never happen in DREAM

Strikeforce has paid WAYYY to much to get Fedor under contract(for them) and will not see this fight happen anywhere but Strikeforce. Unfortunately I also think there is something to the fact that Overeem seems to be avoiding fighting in the US at all costs (drugs?) so this fight may never happen period. But if it does, it will be on american soil. Not to mention the fight will have way more cache if its for a title and since Overeem already owns the strikeforce heavyweight title, it just makes sense all the way around.

by Nick Travaglini on Oct 28, 2009 12:06 PM EDT reply actions

Here’s the problem, if the Strikeforce deal is non-exclusive, Coker really can’t do much besides throw more money to M-1 to ensure it doesn’t take place in Japan.

by Matthew Roth on Oct 28, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions

There are lots of unknowns in this equation, so it’s hard to be really sure about this, but it does bring up lots of interesting issues from the business side of things.

The only way I see this being possible is if Fedor’s SF contract lets him do what he wants outside of the US, like his first Affliction contract. If it is, it could create a big mess, if doesn’t, I really don’t see SF “letting” Fedor fight for Dream. Especially if CBS/Showtime are helping to pay for Fedor, they wouldn’t want to pay for him fighting at 2am on another channel.

by Phildo on Oct 28, 2009 12:10 PM EDT reply actions

Actually...

There is a pretty simple solution to keeping HDNet out of the fold.

Allow Strikeforce to promote the card in Japan under their name, and simply have DREAM promote themselves as partners that are lending fighters. Strikeforce could then use their network deals in place, but the problem becomes a matter of the underground Japanese bullshit, the tape delay of such a major fight… no way in hell that happens.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Oct 28, 2009 12:44 PM EDT reply actions

Does HDNet have an exclusive for the US market or just premium cable? If it’s exclusive for US, then you’ll see a bit of legal action for who gets to air this fight. Even with a copromoted event, existing TV deals would get in the way. HDNet would want to be compensated or CBS would want to be compensated.

by Matthew Roth on Oct 28, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions

Don’t co-promote it publicly. Simply lend the fighters.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on Oct 28, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions

That would be easy if everyone is on the same page, but if this is even possible, it will be a big test of the “alliance” and will show how much everyone is really on the same page.

AO probably wants the fight to happen in Dream because he’ll get paid more that way. Will they be willing to pay that amount of money without it being a Dream event?

All this won’t even matter if Fedor’s contract is non-exclusive outside of the US. If that’s the case, SF is going to have to throw a lot of money at M1 to tie that up before this fight happens. If they don’t, I wouldn’t be surprised if everyone just ditched them for this fight. M1 has worked with FEG, M1 has worked with Cuban before.

Secret hidden co-promotion’s seem like a lot of work. If Fedor can do what he wants outside of the US, I don’t see many reasons for anyone to want to play ball with SF.

by Phildo on Oct 28, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions

This is the point I’m making. Overeem seems to be making more money in K1/Dream/FEG than he does with Strikeforce. His deal with Strikeforce is obviously non-exclusive, so it doesn’t seem like he ever really needs to fight for them.

The CBS ratings will be the deciding factor. The only CBS cards that have done well had a huge draw on them (Kimbo/Carano). One’s without a draw (Diaz) pretty much tanked.

This will be a very interesting situation.

by Matthew Roth on Oct 28, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions

Tape Delay And Put it on CBS

"On the sixth day god created man,but on the fifth day man created god" - Todd White on The Book Of Lucifer:
The Enlightenment

by Krawchuck on Oct 28, 2009 12:50 PM EDT reply actions

How do you do this if HDnet has the exclusive to air the event in the United States?

by Matthew Roth on Oct 28, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions

I think the bigger issue is if Dream can even make this happen.

If Fedor’s contract is with Strikeforce then he can’t go fight in Dream without SF’s permission no matter what Dream or Fedor wants.

If M-1 has final say, it’s a completely different story.

by Andy R on Oct 28, 2009 1:56 PM EDT reply actions

As I understand, Fedor is signed to M-1 global. He is then signed for markets (Japan/US). And if the contract is with Strikeforce but non-exclusive they don’t need permission. Granted this entire topic is hypothetical but it could be a huge deal in setting the precedent for either copromotion or with siding with the thought that co-promotion/non-exclusive deals are bad for the sport.

by Matthew Roth on Oct 28, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions

Fedor's contract...

is non-exclusive, he is planning on fighting at K-1 Dynamite!!! 2009, that the FEG NYE show… His contract is also just a three fight, one year deal.

That said, he can goto Dream w/o ‘permission’, no matter what Strikeforce wants.

by CSKit on Oct 28, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions

When you say one year deal, do you mean that if the CBS show bombs and M-1 believes there is better money in Japan for him, he can just not compete in the US until that year is up? Or does he need to fulfill the contractual obligation and fight those three fights?

by Matthew Roth on Oct 29, 2009 7:47 AM EDT up reply actions

The problem when discussing HDNet and Showtime/CBS is that we don’t know the details of the contract. We don’t know whether HDNet has exclusive rights only on cable, or for both cable and non-cable, etc. From my understanding, HDNet has exclusive rights to show DREAM events on HDNet.

Now, this doesn’t apply to PPV events. So if DREAM/Strikeforce want to hold a PPV event from Japan, then HDNet may have the rights to show the replay later on, and a situation like this could work. =)

by MMASuPreMaCy on Oct 28, 2009 2:42 PM EDT reply actions

Isn’t PPV pretty much a dead market in Japan? Or are you saying Strikeforce use the PPV and Dream use whatever Japanese broadcast channel they use?

by Matthew Roth on Oct 28, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions

I think he means the PPV stateside. I think Dream has a separate television deal in Japan.

by Andy R on Oct 28, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions

Will that PPV bring in more cash than CBS/Showtime on their own? Especially with the time/tape delay issues.

I think this whole thing is about people trying to get more money. AO knows he’ll get more money if it’s a “dream” card. By floating this idea out there. AO either gets to fight in Japan, or gets SF to throw more money at him, which is a win for him.

Dream throwing it out there can make HD Net offer them a better deal when they have a fight like this on the table (Cuban loooooooooooves Fedor) or make CBS and Showtime offer them a TV deal to top what HDNet can offer to prevent the biggest fight they can hope to put on in the near future from going somewhere else.

This all hinges on Fedor’s contract and if it’s exclusive completely. If it’s not, AO and Dream have set themselves up nicely to try and extract some extra money out of this situation, and it wouldn’t shock me to see M1 jump into that group after the Rogers fight, if possible.

by Phildo on Oct 28, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions

From the comments up above people seem to think it’s a non-exclusive contract.

And I seriously doubt the PPV will bring in more cash than a CBS show.

First, hardcore fans are the only ones who know about Dream and will be the only ones buying the PPV.

Second, the tape delay means people will already know what happened, so that will probably hurt the buy rate.

Third, Japanese events tend to be easily available online shortly after the PPV. That’s a recipe for a bad buy rate.

by Andy R on Oct 28, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions

Another issue: If this is to air live on CBS, you’re talking about having it air between 4-5 AM East Coast time. That’s when the morning news is on. Seriously this entire deal with M1/Dream/Strikeforce is turning into a terrible idea the more you think of what could go wrong.

Again, these are all hypothetical questions and we don’t know details if the “alliance” is anything more than just fighter trading. If there is monetary compensation then this makes a little more sense. But if this is a fighter lending deal, then you’ll see that Dream and Strikeforce begin to drift apart for who gets this fight.

by Matthew Roth on Oct 28, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions

Any MMA event is easily available online shortly after the PPV.
=)

I put it out there as on option, though, HDNet is the type of network that loves to work with others, like Showtime for Affliction DOR, so, I don’t think there should be any real problems if all parties are involved and promoted.

by MMASuPreMaCy on Oct 28, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions

Absolutely no reason to think the guy who continues to appeal the court’s decision that he has to pay Don Nelson, even though he knows he won’t win, just because he doesn’t want to hand the money over now. No reason to think they won’t just hold hands and sing kumbaya with everyone involved at all.

by Phildo on Oct 28, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions

Mark Cuban isn’t exactly a great guy who will give up rights to a fight. He’ll either be looking for compensation or just tell Coker that he’s “SOL”.

by Matthew Roth on Oct 29, 2009 8:23 AM EDT up reply actions

I don’t think US TV broadcast has to be that big of obstacle. If the fight is broadcast on a Saturday in Japan they can start it at noon (8 PM PT/11 PM ET in the US). Most of Dreams Saturday fights seem to start in the early afternoon (the last on, Dream 12, started at 3 PM in Tokyo). I know major boxing matches have been held during the day in Japan (Tyson’s Tokyo Dome fight was a daytime fight), so this might not be that big of deal.

As for PPV, I wouldn’t think about it unless the CBS show does gangbusters. If it’s ratings are huge, then it might be an option – and a very attractive one if tit’s a true co-promotion where they split the costs, but both companies gets to capitalize on their perspective markets.

But like a lot of the other stuff you mentioned, there is to many variables even to guess what’s going to happen.

by John Nash on Oct 28, 2009 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions

I just don’t think showing a fight at 11 ET is going to be happening on CBS.

It’s just way too late in the east coast and the Japanese style of really long shows with intermissions doesn’t translate well to US network TV, and especially not that late.

There are so many moving parts involved in this that the only thing I think it’s safe to predict is that this is going to cause everyone headaches, and I just have a feeling that the “sure thing” that Overeem and Fedor were going to be fighting in Strikeforce in early 2010 is no longer a sure thing.

by Phildo on Oct 28, 2009 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions