NEEDED: New MMA Scoring System
via www.sherdog.com
I am pretty tired of all of the talk being focused on so-called “robberies” in this weekend’s close main event battle and very little attention being paid to the failures of the current MMA judging/scoring system. Based on the entire outcry from the fights this weekend, I feel like no one is satisfied with the current system in place. The 10-point must system is inadequate to determine the winner of a fight in which a majority of the rounds were tight. The first 4 rounds of the Machida/Rua fight were really close and really tough to judge. The scoring system in place now doesn't take into account that each judge may be looking at the fight differently and has different views on what is being done effectively. It also fails to determine which type of attack should be valued higher. Is a leg kick from Shogun worth more than a straight left from Machida? We rarely see 10-10 or 10-8 rounds in MMA and 10-9 rounds are not being equally valued. For example the 10-9 round in the Velasquez/Rothwell fight for Velasquez is not the same as a 10-9 round of Machida. A 10-9 round that is clearly for one fighter should be given more credit than a 10-9 round for a close fight.
I am suggesting that a new scoring method should be created and adopted for MMA.
I know the amateur boxing scoring system is not widely accepted within the boxing community, but I believe it can be adapted to work well within MMA. Fighters will be given points on what they do during the round: effective striking, dominant positions, submission attempts, ground transitions, escapes/reversals, and overall damage. To get points, 2 of the 3 judges have to score the exchange for that fighter. The judges will have a buzzer type of tool where they ring in what they deem is point worthy. From here, I see two viable options. Keep the round-winning system, or use a Pride-based system where the whole bout is scored in its entirety.
Keeping the system similar to the current round-winning system goes as follows: at the end of the round the points will be tallied and the fighter with the higher point total wins the round. The fighter with the majority of the rounds wins the fight. The cumulative tallies are used in the event there is a draw for one or more of the individual rounds. In those cases where we have a tie for rounds won, the winner will be determined by the overall point totals.
Another option would be to adopt the old Pride system where the winners were determined by what the fighters accomplished over the course of the entire fight. The winner of the fight would be determined by the cumulative totals. I believe this takes all the pressure off judging fights. Instead of forcing the judges to make 3 or 5 separate decisions on 5-minute intervals of action, they will instead be relying on their instantaneous reactions to the fight in the ring. No longer will they have to replay each round in their head and convince themselves of who had the better cagemanship.
Regardless of which system is chosen, the move to the amateur boxing scoring system will force the judges become more knowledgeable on MMA and it will value more aspects of the fight rather than just giving the round to one guy because of a general set of criteria. With a more specific set of criteria I hope the fighters will win based on their merits and not on what is perceived to be happening.
There are a few shortcomings with this system: competent judges, consistency between commissions, landing clean shots compared to power shots, judging between 2 simultaneous strikes, and valuing aggression. Also it would need to be determined how many points are taken away if there is a foul by one of the fighters, and whether points will be taken away based of the severity of the penalty (i.e. intentional low-blows compared to a fighter stalling).
By Davey S. and Desertsamurai31
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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Missed this point in the argument
The easiest fix would be for the commissions to urge their judges score 10-10 and 10-8 rounds more freely but that might only be a bandaid for an Abe Wagner vertical happyface. Right now judges are encouraged to give a round toward a fighter based on the argument there is something that the fighter did better than the other fighter to win that round. This would be the easiest to implement but what would constitute a 10-10 round, whats a 10-8 round, and finally whats the difference between a 10-10, a 10-9 and a 10-8? That might be the hardest to figure out and since those numbers are arbetrary the controversies can still arise with a 10 point must.
by Davey S. on Oct 27, 2009 7:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No judging system will ever be perfect. Used correctly, the 10ptmust is fine.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on Oct 27, 2009 7:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed. At least with the 10 point must we can see how a judge came to his or her conclusion. Under the Pride system, you can just arbitrarily point to someone and wash your hands of it.
by Tonley on Oct 27, 2009 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am surprised more people haven’t brought this up. Shogun would have clearly won in PRIDE rules.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Oct 27, 2009 7:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
And there’s plenty of misjudged fights under the Pride system as well.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on Oct 27, 2009 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And they occurred at a far greater rate than ones judged under the unified rules, mainly due to Pride’s esoteric and opaque judging criteria Sure they had ‘judging criteria,’ but God knows they never used it.
Sometimes you could LnP for a win, other times you would LnP but the guy on bottom would win, sometimes dominating 95% of a fight was cancelled out by a last minute flurry by the other fighter (Hendo, and to a lesser extent, Gono, benefitted from this), sometimes dominating 95% of a fight got you a W, etc. There was just no consistency to it.
by ilostmydog on Oct 27, 2009 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely, no judging system is perfect.
What I hate is this:
Fighter A squeaks Rounds 1, 2, 3.
Fighter B clearly wins round 4 and round 5, but judges don’t award a 10-8 round.
Who’s the real winner?
by MMASuPreMaCy on Oct 27, 2009 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is why more 10-10 and more 10-8 rounds is the key.
by Jahbulon on Oct 27, 2009 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is as subjective as judging the entire fight as a whole though.
=)
by MMASuPreMaCy on Oct 27, 2009 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to mention that the judges or promotions would never want it to end in a draw.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Oct 27, 2009 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If that happened i wouldn’t mind having a extra round like how K-1 does it.
"Did you feel you did well against Lindland?" "
Hell no.. I wanted to break the law"
---Rampage
by TearsofaClown on Oct 27, 2009 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Education!
I think properly educating the judges on the system is far more important then the system itself
by MMA_Messiah on Oct 27, 2009 7:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I was also going to mention that it will take time for good judges to grow up with MMA and have a lot of practice….but Boxing has been around for 100+ years and bad decisions still happen.
We might just be stuck with bad decisions every now and then.
I’ll take 50 Machida/Ruas for every Beebee/Easton though
by MMA_Messiah on Oct 27, 2009 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about some competent judges? (And Cecil Peoples and Adelaide Byrd aren't)
Broncos 12 Bengals 7: The story of the 2009 Seattle Seahawks.
by SSreporters on Oct 27, 2009 7:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think the current system is the problem.
The problem is that many fans don’t understand the current system.
If I win 3 rounds out of 5, I win the fight. It doesn’t matter if my rounds were close and your weren’t (unless yours were so one-sided as to produce a 10-8 round) It doesn’t matter if my rounds feature a lot of technical striking while your rounds do a lot more damage. If I’m bleeding badly from elbows I took last round, I can still out-point you with jabs this round.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
by Llewdor on Oct 27, 2009 7:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
but that is a problem in itself...
If I dominate two rounds that aren’t quite 10-8’s and you squeak out 3 10-9’s by the slimmest of margins…that is a problem to try and award a victory.
The fans on this blog understand, and alot of us are still outraged. I think Shogun won the fight…I think the decesion should have been a draw.
by B Money on Oct 27, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see how that's a problem.
Those are the rules of the contest. If I win by the book, then I win.
Unless you’re making some sort of normative claim about what the rules of the contest ought to be…
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
by Llewdor on Oct 28, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This system you proposed is not a good one IMO. It’s a horrible system in boxing, and there they only have to worry about clean punches. I can only imagine the shitshow that would ensue if they ever tried this in MMA.
by ilostmydog on Oct 27, 2009 8:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You don’t think giving the fighters points for what is actually done in a fight would work? How bout if this was used in the henderson cerrone fight? The cowboy would receive points for the tight submission attempt which would maybe win the interim WEC title. What if beebe was getting points for holding easton’s back for minute on end. I know that getting the judges knowledgeable about the techniques being used and what deserves a point but if we can get them educated I think the system will work brilliantly. Giving fighters subjective scores based on who appears to be doing something better is not a better system. How do you determine what deserves a 10-10? What deserves a 10-8? Will 10-7 rounds be given ever? What is the criteria to score those type of rounds? No system will be perfect but I still like the idea of fighters earning a fight rather than being given one just because.
by Davey S. on Oct 28, 2009 12:20 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not debating whether or not giving points for submission attempts or back control is a good thing, I’m saying that it won’t work. In boxing it doesn’t work for single punches, how is it going to work for the entire repertoire of moves in MMA?
Based on the button smacking method you propose, takedowns would be worth the same as a leg kick which would be worth the same as a jab which would be worth the same as an uppercut which would be worht the same as a hammerfirst, etc. It values quantity over quality. One guy could land a boatloadnof clean, relatively ineffective jabs or probing leg kicks and beat a guy who lands fewer, but more powerful, punches and kicks on the basis that he ‘outpointed’ him. Furthermore, how would one even score top control, back control, side control, etc.? Would the judges just sit there smacking a button the entire time? It’s just a completely silly idea.
by ilostmydog on Oct 28, 2009 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nick Diaz would never lose a decision.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Oct 28, 2009 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
imo, the perfect system would be to eliminate the judges altogether. call me old-school, but i feel the fight should go on until someone wins. knockout or tapout – no decisions. it’ll never happen (in the u.s. anyway) , but i can dream…
by stray on Oct 27, 2009 9:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
LONG LIVE PRIDE FC you know you miss it.
by mr. gogoplata on Oct 28, 2009 12:36 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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