Dave Meltzer: Dana White Wants Machida-Shogun II on January 2nd
On his radio show last night (subscription required and recommended), Dave Meltzer said Dana White wants the Lyoto Machida vs. Mauricio "Shogun" Rua rematch on UFC 108. Meltzer also stated that Shogun has agreed to the date, and Machida will let them know if he's healthy enough to take it.
They want to return quickly with Machida/Shogun because the controversy is hot right now and if they can make a rematch announcement soon, they can assuage fan anger and channel it into PPV buys. If UFC 108 has Lesnar-Carwin, Machida-Shogun, and Evans-Silva, the show should break the million buy mark.
They won't do Lesnar-Carwin, Machida-Shogun, and Anderson-Vitor on the same card, because they'd have almost nothing for their shows at the beginning of next year, and they won't overload New Year's.
It may be a mistake for Machida to take a rematch so soon. There's just no way he can get a full training camp in given the beating he took Saturday night and the time he'll need to recover before he can train at full speed.
This is a good example of a situation where what is best for business diverges from what is best for the sport. The best thing for business is to put this rematch on as soon as possible to strike while the iron's hot. But at the same time, I don't think anyone wants to see Machida lose because he's injured and unable to train. I think the best course of action is to do Lesnar-Carwin and Sliva-Belfort on this show, and delay Shogun-Machida until the Superbowl show.
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one mil easy. My bet would be 1.2 or so.
by Lynchman on Oct 27, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bet Anderson’s kicking himself for playing trick elbow.
Keep firing Assholes!
Never trust a man with no shirt on.
by Ubernoober on Oct 27, 2009 4:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I imagine he'll magically heal soon
Then Ed will start pushing to get Silva on that show.
by dv8shun on Oct 27, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Machida v. Shogun 2 on January 2, 2010
I feel like they should put the Machida v. Shogun rematch, along with Anderson Silva v. Whomever, on the February 6 show as the main and semi-main events, respectively. This would leave Brock Lesnar against Shane Cariwn with Rashad v. Thiago Silva as the semi-main, a combination that is pretty much a lock to draw one million buys.
Adding the two aforementioned title matches on top of Matt Serra v. Frank Trigg probably adds another very strong buy rate in February and gives Lyoto time to heal up any injuries he may have sustained while being bested by Shogun the first time around. My understanding is that Lyoto’s hand is a bit nicked up, which may not be a big deal, but there’s no need to push for this on January with the proposed matches already in place and February still in need of a main event.
...Behold, a pale horse. The man that sat upon it was Wieters, and hell followed with him.
"BJ on the BE" - Kierkegaard
by Brett Jones on Oct 27, 2009 4:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Why spread not spread out the belts? Most of the PPV buys come from casual fans that care only about who’s fighting who for the belt. Have the New Year show be a blockbuster (Heavyweight belt and middleweight belt) but still save some for 109 (lightheavy belt) and 110 (crosses finger welterweight). Blow your wad early so you can still see come action later (UFC 111- 113).
by lateralus08 on Oct 27, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, that wasn’t entirely clear, but I think I understood the gist of it.
We’re largely suggesting the same thing: two title matches on one show and one title match on the other show.
However, my suggestion is to put the Middleweight and Light Heavyweight title matches on the same show while leaving the Heavyweight title match with a co-main event of Rashad Evans v. Thiago Silva. I think this would maximize the buy rates for both shows.
People are likely to be intrigued by the rematch of Machida v. Shogun, as Shogun earned some much deservered star power coming off of his “loss” to Machida. Meanwhile, it appears as though the unsolvable riddle of Machida already has been can be solved. Neither fighter is at, or even approaching the level of Brock Lesnar, however, and considering the early estimate of the buy rate for their initial contest was 398k buys, it makes sense to bolster that main event with a very strong co-main.
By adding Anderson Silva v. [Marquardt/Belfort], you’re adding in a champion who, while not a historical draw on his own, was last seen picking apart the fighter primarily responsible for drawing one million buys. That carry over, along with the addition of a second championship match to the already proven strong multiple main event formula that the UFC has employed on several occasions will likely yield the highest possible buyrate for UFC 109, given the circumstance as it presently exists.
One may argue that a single title match for UFC 108 would leave that show relatively weak in terms of the buy rate. I disagree. Brock Lesnar is a proven draw, capable of brining close to if not at least one million buys to the table for each of his fights at this point in time. Add to that a semi-main event featuring Rashad Evans, whose stock can only be rising based on his involvement in TUF 10, and those two matches, as I’ve suggested previously, are almost assured of drawing one million buys. To add another title match would be to weaken subsequent shows.
Regardless of how these shows wind up being booked, we are looking at a lot of very high profile matches to start 2010.
...Behold, a pale horse. The man that sat upon it was Wieters, and hell followed with him.
"BJ on the BE" - Kierkegaard
by Brett Jones on Oct 27, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude, make a fan post lol.
[Shogun beat the piss outta Machida then got robbed from his UFC LHW Title.]
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Oct 27, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Seriously, responds to a barely understandable post with over 5 paragraphs…
by szucconi on Oct 27, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You beat me to it, that deserves a rec.
by casey manrique on Oct 27, 2009 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not everything with substance needs its own fanpost. My comment fits well within the context of this post.
I guess it was too long for you all, but I feel I explained my position well.
...Behold, a pale horse. The man that sat upon it was Wieters, and hell followed with him.
"BJ on the BE" - Kierkegaard
by Brett Jones on Oct 27, 2009 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously, how often do you have to change keyboards?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Oct 28, 2009 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brett is a man of meny tastes. He will go on and on about anything, really. MMA is only one of his passions. I try not to ask him to many questions.
by szucconi on Oct 28, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think they’d be okay doing 2 title fights on December.
Machida-Rua along with maybe a Matt Hughes fight on Feb. 6.
GSP-Swick/Hardy along with Wand on Feb. 26
Chuck rumored to return in March, and then the cycle will start coming around again. I think holding guys off too long leads to periods where nobody can fight too soon.
by Michael Rome on Oct 27, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks for using dates. wasn’t sure if people would get the event numbers.
by lateralus08 on Oct 27, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think holding guys off too long leads to periods where nobody can fight too soon.
The UFC hasn’t exactly shied away from holding off on title matches in the past.
...Behold, a pale horse. The man that sat upon it was Wieters, and hell followed with him.
"BJ on the BE" - Kierkegaard
by Brett Jones on Oct 27, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which brings up an interesting point. Who is hosting the next season of TUF?
by szucconi on Oct 27, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tito Ortiz and Mark Coleman, God willing.
...Behold, a pale horse. The man that sat upon it was Wieters, and hell followed with him.
"BJ on the BE" - Kierkegaard
by Brett Jones on Oct 27, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn’t Kevin Randleman steal hammer houses punching bag?
by szucconi on Oct 27, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought he WAS the punching bag…?
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Oct 27, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How dare you forget about Wes Sims?
...Behold, a pale horse. The man that sat upon it was Wieters, and hell followed with him.
"BJ on the BE" - Kierkegaard
by Brett Jones on Oct 27, 2009 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Save Machida v. Rua II for 109 and throw in Velasquez v. Big Nog and you’ll have a stellar card.
by lateralus08 on Oct 27, 2009 4:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Funny how the winner needs more time to heal.
by Td9d on Oct 27, 2009 4:08 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
Well, you can certainly break a hand or foot or suffer another injury and still win a fight.
In this case, however, you’re right; Lyoto didn’t really win.
...Behold, a pale horse. The man that sat upon it was Wieters, and hell followed with him.
"BJ on the BE" - Kierkegaard
by Brett Jones on Oct 27, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or if you get punched in the face and kicked in the ribs too many times.
I dislike Matt Hughes. Shogun beat him like a dirty horse.
by MonkeyCHops on Oct 27, 2009 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
doesn't mean he didn't win
I think it is too quick and I agree with Brett on what to do with the cards
by swells2048 on Oct 27, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I went to the bar, and he went to the hospital
- BJ Penn
by Jahbulon on Oct 27, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And how did the rematch go down? ;)
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Oct 27, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did someone say Ospital?!?!

I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on Oct 27, 2009 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know if I'm way late on this or what
But that is one of the funniest things I’ve ever seen.
by Hatfield on Oct 27, 2009 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are late but I still at least chuckle every time I see that
Giving Shogun his props. I had the fight 48-47 Machida but Shogun put up a monumental performance and I am honored to have seen it in person.
by Day Man on Oct 27, 2009 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Way Late
But yes agree with Day Man. Funniest MMA pic ever.
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Oct 28, 2009 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just like the winner of GSP-Alves, was that fight controversial too?
by ufc4 on Oct 27, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Td9d
You win teh internets.
[Shogun beat the piss outta Machida then got robbed from his UFC LHW Title.]
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Oct 27, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s funny how anything that even suggests Shogun won the fight gets greened now but anyone who says they scored it for Machida or can see how he won is biased.
by ufc4 on Oct 27, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s not true, there is a bunch of people saying people defending Shogun was brainwashed (or biased, which baffles me since before the fight Shogun had 5 fans)
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 27, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are taking this Rogan thing way too far- what has been said is SOME people were probably swayed by the commentating, not every single person who thinks Shogun won as you seem to keep hearing. Do 100% of the people who think Shogun won believe so because of Rogan’s comments? Of course not. Do 10%? Possibly.
by ufc4 on Oct 27, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it impacted people—- it’s hard not to be swayed when you have Rogan going nuts every time Rua threw a kick. I have no doubt it has fueled quite a bit of controversy about the decision, since if you’d listened to him it’ve been 50-45 Rua.
That’s not to say that you’re brainwashed for think Rua won, just that it helped color the perception of the fight.
"an excellent example of why most MMA "journalism" is a joke. Pseudonyms like "toxic" and shitty writing like that dopey article"--- Joe Rogan.
by toxic on Oct 27, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, what I’m saying is that there are plenty defenders of both fighters on each side, although Shogun appears to have the majority, it’s not all for Shogun that’s getting greened, I’ve seen plenty of arguments for Machida that gets greened. What I said about people defending Machida arguing we’re either biased or brainwashed has also got greened… Among other better arguments (substance wise).
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 27, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would say the Shogun greeen comments out-number the Machida comments by about 3-1.
by ufc4 on Oct 27, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cecil Peoples has it 4-0 for Machida
"I want to tell me what you see, let's go ahead and see by the fight what you saw, in the ring"
by crinow on Oct 27, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
eh
but what you gonna do, welcome to my world pre UFC 104 :P
(but to be fair, back then Machida green comments out-numbered Shogun at about infinity-0, there weren’t that many in our sides to make it green haha)
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 27, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah but back then they weren’t getting greened, people just spoke their peace and move on. Now people seem to think that by rec’ing they will correct this great social injustice they have suffered.
by ufc4 on Oct 27, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the greens will set us free!
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 27, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would say the Shogun greeen comments out-number the Machida comments by about 3-1.
And this really bothers you? You know what bothered me? 99 peeps out of 100 were licking Machidas ballsack and gave Shogun no chance.
[Shogun beat the piss outta Machida then got robbed from his UFC LHW Title.]
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Oct 27, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
I didn’t say it bothers me, but it is funny to see all these Shogun lovers coming out of the woodwork now rec’ing every other comment.
by ufc4 on Oct 27, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trudat.
[Shogun beat the piss outta Machida then got robbed from his UFC LHW Title.]
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Oct 27, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, yes, I love that because Machida looked in dominant form against T.Silva & Rashad and Shogun’s gastank question was unanswered, I, too, was “licking Machida’s ballsack.” How dare I infer from evidence.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Oct 27, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What bothers me is all of the “zomg ROBBERY!” comments that get greened rather than the “I think Shogun won the fight” comments.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Oct 27, 2009 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Orcus and I had Shogun, I remember that. True to the game, baby!
by casey manrique on Oct 27, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hell yeah!
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 27, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was on that wagon
g’damn our wheels were fallin off
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Robert Downey Sr. on Oct 28, 2009 3:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No way they put all three on one card. They would be giving away too much. If a card has 2 title fights, adding a third is not going to get you many more buys…. not nearly as many as you could get making another event out of it.
I think Anderson will be on the card with one of the other fights. He wont fight without another big draw on the card. If they ask him to headline himself, Im sure that elbow injury creeps up again.
by ryanwk628 on Oct 27, 2009 4:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Why should he have to be 100% to train for this fight. In what other sport is an athlete 100% when they are playing? Will Shogun be at an advantage considering he fought the same fight and will have the same training time? I just dont think that is a valid reason not to have the fight. It would be different if he suffered a serious injury but as far as I know neither man did.
by nsiegel on Oct 27, 2009 4:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
you’re asking a defending champion to forgo his normal training schedule to fight against a man he barely beat(lost to). if you cant see why that isnt fair to machida then…
by sadface on Oct 27, 2009 4:23 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
well I guess I cant. I guess I expect a little more out of a champion. Both fighters have equal time to train equal healing time equal time to adjust strategies
by nsiegel on Oct 27, 2009 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I sincerely suspect that Anderson won’t be on the Lesnar-Carwin card, if only to show him that the door swings both ways.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Oct 27, 2009 4:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This 1000X
No way they put him on a Brock card after all the trouble he is causing.
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Oct 28, 2009 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The UFC needs to make this free on spike!!! i paid to watch it once and feel like i got screwed. I dont wanna pay again
by jks9202 on Oct 27, 2009 4:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hahaha
Yeah, you got fucked over because Shogun isn’t the champ.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Oct 27, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that fight was horrible
Shogun and Machida need to join a real camp like Team Punishment before I ever watch either of them fight again.
by Scott Haber on Oct 27, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
When was the last time Team Punishment won anything? They are both in better camps than Team Punishment. I actually can’t believe you typed that.
by swells2048 on Oct 27, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah when I watched the fight, you wanna know the first thing that came into my head?
Imagine how good both ot these guys would be if they put in a few training sessions with Justin McCully
by StevenGiles on Oct 27, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No I got screwed i had about 7 friends over who dont watch mma and now will never watch it again they walked out saying it is just as fixed as boxing because they didnt agree with the decision.
by jks9202 on Oct 27, 2009 4:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I’m sorry your friends are such drama queens. Are they boycotting the Olympics because of the 2002 figure skating judging scandal? Did they stop watching the NBA after Jordan pushed off on Byron Russel or soccer after Maradona scored his “hand of God” goal? Did the “tuck rule” turn them off to football?
by Jahbulon on Oct 27, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did the "tuck rule" turn them off to football?
No, but it cut me pretty deep =(
"That feeling after you win and they raise your hand... it's like you have this energy that releases from your body, and it's like you mingle with the cosmos, and you feel omnipotent"
by woomikee on Oct 27, 2009 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm pretty sure he B.S.'ing
Seven people leaving pissed saying “this was just as fixed as boxing!”
That’s a statement you make after you come on the blogs and see someone else say it.
BTW – I almost stopped watching the 2008 Summer Olympics after the judges continually screwed over the U.S. female gymnasts :( Well, I almost stopped watching gymnastics. No way was I going to stop watching Women’s Beach Volleyball.
by Grappo on Oct 27, 2009 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It may be a mistake for Machida to take a rematch so soon. There’s just no way he can get a full training camp in given the beating he took Saturday night and the time he’ll need to recover before he can train at full speed.
If Machida doesn’t take this fight then he just adds fuel to the already raging fire that he lost. It will prove beyond doubt that Rua caused way more damage than Machida than the reverse.
Bob Arum thinks I'm a white Nazi skinhead even though I'm a brown grad student (with hair)
by ludakrish on Oct 27, 2009 4:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This was already proven from their first fight.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Oct 27, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And yet people still maintain Machida won the fight….
Bob Arum thinks I'm a white Nazi skinhead even though I'm a brown grad student (with hair)
by ludakrish on Oct 27, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because he did win the fight.
See GSP vs. Alves, GSP vs Penn, Henderson vs. Cerrone etc.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Oct 27, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
See Easton vs. Beebe.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Oct 27, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now that was a robbery.
Machida vs. Shogun was a close controversial fight.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Oct 27, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
(But decisive.)
(And Shogun should have wont that decision.)
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Oct 28, 2009 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are entitled to your opinion sir.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Oct 28, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And you're entitled to a free sundae with the purchase of any "happy ending" meal at Friendly's
…which, given the name, was something of a let down.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Oct 28, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This whole argument about where to place belt fights only reinforces my interest in a cruiserweight division (206 – 235). That way you can spread out the titles to appease casual fan and you can do away with what I call fluffer cards ( 102, 99, 95, 93 etc..)
by lateralus08 on Oct 27, 2009 4:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thank you for reminding me about this!
I actually looked into this idea a while back, and essentially the Heavyweight division would be cut in half. Considering how thin it is already as compared to every other division the UFC offers, it’s not really a good idea. While it could provide a new title with which to draw additional fans in the short term, the net result would be two underpopulated divisions, which would ultimately lead to fewer available fights, not more.
...Behold, a pale horse. The man that sat upon it was Wieters, and hell followed with him.
"BJ on the BE" - Kierkegaard
by Brett Jones on Oct 27, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would kill heavy, I think. Guys that can not cut to 205 now because they are sitting at 250 without a cut, could get under 230. Leaving Heavy empty. ex. See Superheavy.
by szucconi on Oct 27, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are more guys above 235lbs. in the Heavyweight division than you might think of off the top of your heard, but it’s an entirely plausible and probably likely outcome.
Although, as long as Brock Lesnar is the champ, the UFC will find suitable challengers, because as the saying goes, you don’t look a gifthose in the ass, or you wind up covered in it.
...Behold, a pale horse. The man that sat upon it was Wieters, and hell followed with him.
"BJ on the BE" - Kierkegaard
by Brett Jones on Oct 27, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plenty of guys above 235, but thats walking weight. No doubt they can cut to 235 to gain a size ad.
by szucconi on Oct 27, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But don’t you think that the reason why the heavyweight is so thin right now is because everyone (UFC, Strikeforce) is looking for a Brock-killer. I say cut the division in half that way it gives smaller, marginally good fighters a chance to be competitive without wondering how to beat guys the size of carwin and lesnar. In the upper heavy division, it will flounder at first but there are plenty of 240lb + fighters out there to step in. Besides, I want to see good competitive fights not repeats of Lesnar v. Couture.
by lateralus08 on Oct 27, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So who would be in the HW division still? Lesnar, Rothwell, Roy Nelson, maybe Carwin? Who else?
by ufc4 on Oct 27, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, and guys that are big and couldn’t cut down. Count the quality fighters maybe on one hand.
by szucconi on Oct 27, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
duffee, tuchscherer, struve, gromley, mir etc…
other hw’s include overeem, lashley, buentello
just cause they’re not top 10 or non-UFC now doesn’t mean they need to be discounted
by lateralus08 on Oct 27, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Non-UFC would be even worse because those promotions barely have enough guys to stock one HW division. And Mir would EASILY make 230 or 235.
by ufc4 on Oct 27, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you’re whole argument is that there are few heavyweights that would fit into 235 265 in the UFC but the reality is that they are out there, in the UFC and in the other promotions. As MMA gets bigger and more people try out, there will be more guys this size climbing the ranks. Ex college wrestlers, ex- college football players, meatheads from the local gym.
The problem is that the UFC will become too top heavy with guys 250+ so where are fighters who can’t cut to 205 go, knowing that they will lose to the behemoths in their “weight” class.
Oh and Frank weighed in at 245 at 101 and he looked ripped. Don’t know if he could lose too much more.
by lateralus08 on Oct 27, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i’m new here and i haven’t quite figured out how what makes the line through the words.
by lateralus08 on Oct 27, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When typing, look between the header & body text spaces. You’ll see a B, and I, etc. The barred-S indicates strike-through.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Oct 27, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Frank put on weight because he knew he would be at a huge size disadvantage against Brock, while he was ripped he could lose that weight in a few weeks of training if he wanted to. When the UFC does get top heavy with guys the size of Brock and Carwin then we can talk, until then about 80% of the class could make 235 so that idea is pointless.
by ufc4 on Oct 27, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem is that the problem is starting now. With Lesnar as champ, the first question asked when he gets a challenger is “how big is the other guy?” and not “how good is he?” Nip it in the bud. Create the new weight class and watch it fill in. If you create it, they will come.
by lateralus08 on Oct 27, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why did nobody care about this when Tim Sylvia was champ?
by ufc4 on Oct 27, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s probably more a matter of how one uses the size, but the point is valid.
i felt bad for Cain on Saturday because of this. the guy has talent but his strengths are likely to be negated by Brock.
"I want to tell me what you see, let's go ahead and see by the fight what you saw, in the ring"
by crinow on Oct 27, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember people complaining about Tim’s size, that he would lumber around jabbing and lean on people if they got close. I think the difference is that Tim was written off as a non-threat, while Brock is a supremely talented guy, and a huge threat, so they have to try to write him off. My guess, anyway.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Oct 27, 2009 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he could easily make it to 235, maybe even 225. He wasnt that ripped imho, and he just too small to fight guys like Brock and the future real heavy weights
by nsiegel on Oct 27, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“Machida will let them know if he’s healthy enough to take it.”
That sorta puts the bow on the whole debate for me.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Oct 27, 2009 4:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Machida still hasn’t let us know if he really thinks he won the fight or not.
[Shogun beat the piss outta Machida then got robbed from his UFC LHW Title.]
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Oct 27, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah he did. The thinks he won 4 rounds.
"an excellent example of why most MMA "journalism" is a joke. Pseudonyms like "toxic" and shitty writing like that dopey article"--- Joe Rogan.
by toxic on Oct 27, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I said Machida, not The.
[Shogun beat the piss outta Machida then got robbed from his UFC LHW Title.]
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Oct 27, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

“Pfft, Dana’s crazy, first they want us to take Vitor and now they want Lyoto to get beat again.”
[Shogun beat the piss outta Machida then got robbed from his UFC LHW Title.]
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Oct 27, 2009 4:45 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
next time shogun will make sure the fight is finished believe me…. even if he has to pull a wes sims just to make a point.
by mr. gogoplata on Oct 27, 2009 4:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Get choked out by an arm triangle?
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Oct 27, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This kills a quick rematch.
UFC 104 medical suspensions: Machida gets 60 days; Barry out for up to six months
HT: MMA Junkie
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Oct 27, 2009 5:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Why does it kill a quick rematch? they just need clearance and last I checked it doesn’t keep them from training that long. Not saying Lyoto’s injuries are nothing, but medical suspensions are not major and Jan 2 is more then 60 days away.
by szucconi on Oct 27, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I believe if he gets a doctor’s clearance in 20 days he is free to train and fight whenever.
by swells2048 on Oct 27, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He could make Jan 2nd if he doesn’t need surgery but Feb. 6th would be more feasable.
by ufc4 on Oct 27, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Main-event winner Lyoto Machida – who earned a unanimous-decision win over Mauricio “Shogun” Rua – was suspended for 60 days, including 60 days without contact, for a left upper-lip laceration.
doesn’t the 60 days without contact mean no training? (although I can’t see why if it’s only a lip laceration.
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 27, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He can get a doctor’s clearance and resume training earlier.
by ufc4 on Oct 27, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ah, gotcha
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 27, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
1 month to heal, 1 month to train for the same fighter he just fought should be enough. Anyway, I really doubt they take Jan 2nd date so its pointless to talk about it. If Machida takes it, that will look really good on him.
[Shogun beat the piss outta Machida then got robbed from his UFC LHW Title.]
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Oct 27, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Shogun he trained for is not the Shogun that showed up.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Oct 27, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Easily answered with Doc clearance…

Now get that shit outta here.
by mmalogic on Oct 27, 2009 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
IMO
Machida should be chompin at the bit to get back in there and really beat Shogun this time. I mean, he’s gonna fight the same guy. Its not like he’s gonna fight someone with a totally new fighting style. The longer he postpones it looks bad on him.
[Shogun beat the piss outta Machida then got robbed from his UFC LHW Title.]
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Oct 27, 2009 5:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It’s like Rocky 1.
Keep firing Assholes!
Never trust a man with no shirt on.
by Ubernoober on Oct 27, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, and of course that’s what YOU want, get Machida in there at less than 100% and with less time to make adjustments or he looks bad. You’re ridiculous man.
by ufc4 on Oct 27, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
MIND READER!!!!!
[Shogun beat the piss outta Machida then got robbed from his UFC LHW Title.]
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Oct 27, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hey now
Machida will have the same amount of time as Shogun, if both are injury free why is there a problem?
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 27, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who needs to make more adjustments, Shogun or Machida?
by ufc4 on Oct 27, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
who cares
if you thought Machida won the fight, than he can do it again in the rematch, if that’s two and a half month away why would there be a problem? Unless of course, you don’t think he won the fight and needs more time to study Shogun…
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 27, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
can’t have a draw in a title fight, have to pick a side ufc4, sorry.
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 27, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was watching Pride back then
but this is what I got from wiki:
In the finals of the tournament, Uno faced Penn (who had previously defeated Uno by knockout in under 12 seconds). Uno used angles, and effective wrestling techniques to frustrate Penn, who appeared tentative from the start. Penn was dominant in spurts, and the fight was called a draw. This judges’ decision was a disaster for the UFC management. As a result the division was temporarily abolished.
It’s really a disaster if you have a draw to a championship belt, what happens? do both share the belt, are both called champions? Can you imagine the superbowl having two champions? a world cup finals having two world champions? it shouldn’t, you have to pick a side ufc4, sorry…
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 27, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you have a draw the champ retains, plain and simple. If nobody beat him how could he lose the title?
by ufc4 on Oct 27, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
but can’t you see how this is just not good enough. So you have a champion that didn’t beat a challenger, and a challenger that was just as good as the champion, but is not a champion…
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 27, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let’s wait and see how immediate that is…
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 27, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it’s 4 months instead of 2 will that really bother anyone?
by ufc4 on Oct 27, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
we’ll see if it’s 4 months…
Seriously though, I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s in June ’10
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 27, 2009 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And if that’s both guys next fight then that is still an immediate rematch right?
by ufc4 on Oct 27, 2009 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, if you talk immediate as in no one else will fight these two, sure, but hey, to me the faster the better. One of your posts above states the following:
Who needs to make more adjustments, Shogun or Machida?
so you’d be cool with more delays just so one side would need more time to adjust than the other?
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 27, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t want it delayed any longer than it needs to be for Machida to get 100% healthy whether that is 2 months or 6 months.
by ufc4 on Oct 27, 2009 6:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
what does he need to get healthy from?
according to him his legs are fine… I find it interesting how the medical suspension report did not report anything regarding a broken hand, you’d think they wouldn’t miss something like that.
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 27, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Could be broken, could be sprained. They do miss hand injuries sometimes. Or foot or knee.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 27, 2009 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“It’s time to celebrate the win and relax from the hard training routine. After that I will check what happened to my hand (it’s hurt), if it needs some surgery, then analyze my mistakes in this fight carefully with my family to restart my training routine.
by ufc4 on Oct 27, 2009 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Immediate just means they will face each other again before facing anyone else.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Oct 27, 2009 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The reason that was so bad
Is there wasn’t a champion yet. This was for the first title. If one would have been the champion then the champion keep the title because he wasn’t beat.
Draws are part of the sport. Draws aren’t in those sports and if regulation ends in a tie it goes to OT. Maybe we need OT rounds.
by swells2048 on Oct 27, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd be cool with that
one more round, as in TUF haha
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 27, 2009 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know
MMA is the only combat sport I really watch.
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 27, 2009 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Both
Machida won, but Rua is the perceived winner by most. If they both come in with the same gameplan it will be a very similar result. And both are going to want to finish.
by swells2048 on Oct 27, 2009 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And they aren’t both injury free, Machida is more injured than Shogun. Whether it is something serious like a broken bone we don’t know yet but either way Shogun will be able to start training sooner than Machida.
by ufc4 on Oct 27, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if
he has a broken hand, then I’m fine with delaying it until both are healthy, but first let’s wait for confirmation. I don’t want Shogun to have advantages, I want a fair fight.
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 27, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How could he have a broken hand?
The Rua supporters don’t think Machida landed anything :P
by swells2048 on Oct 27, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
are you playing with my emotions?
or is this confirmed?
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 27, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it’s not confirmed he has a broken hand, and there are many ways to injure a hand without landing a punch…
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 27, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Machida needs time to retool… nobody expected this animal:

by mmalogic on Oct 27, 2009 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The first two parts of that show that when attacking Lyoto, keep yo’ damn hands up or he will blast you in the face as he does in the second and makes Shogun stumble for the half ass takedown. That last leg kick did jack squat due to the lifting of the leg and Lyoto moving backwards. The counter leg kick you posted earlier was a much much better shot.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Oct 28, 2009 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does anyone know the UFC’s schedule for Jan and Feb of 2010 (which dates are getting UFCs)? If we know that, we can piece together the main events to some extent
Jan 2 – Lesnar/Carwin, Machida/Shogun
Jan 30 – Is this too soon for GSP? Silva-Belfort
Feb – ??
by Hardcharger on Oct 27, 2009 5:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
According to MMA Junkie
UFC 108
Jan 02, 2010
UFC Fight Night 20
Jan 11, 2010
UFC 109
Feb 06, 2010
UFC 110
Feb 21, 2010
“The Ultimate Fighter 11” debut
Apr 14, 2010
by ufc4 on Oct 27, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is UFC 110 the Australia card? IF so, it will be the one skimped on a great main event, likely.
by Hardcharger on Oct 27, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it will get a big main event, likely GSP.
They are running it at a time in Australia so it will actually be live at 10 eastern in the United States. No reason to skimp, it’s running live with no tape delay at the normal time, and it’s a first time in the market. I’m expecting GSP-Swick/Hardy and Wand-Akiyama.
by Michael Rome on Oct 27, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There has been a lot of backlash in Australia. I’m actually surprised they are going to have to “sluggers” like Akiyama vs Wandy.
by swells2048 on Oct 27, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jeez Michael don’t tell me they are gonna make GSP fight in australia.
by ufc4 on Oct 27, 2009 6:23 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Fuck!
I might have to schedule a visit home around that time if GSP goes down under….
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Oct 28, 2009 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So much for this
According to MMAJunkie, Machida got a 60 day suspension including 60-days no contact.
by SanDiegoMMA.net on Oct 27, 2009 5:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
DEAR EVERYONE: MEDICAL SUSPENSIONS CAN BE AVOIDED WITH DOCTOR CLEARANCE.
by Michael Rome on Oct 27, 2009 6:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Can we PLEASE not have this fight happen so soon. The last thing we need is for Machida to lose with his hand or ribs at less than 100%. Then everything would flip and we’d need ANOTHER rematch because of yet MORE controversy
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 27, 2009 6:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Tito-Shamrock III still did great numbers. Controversy and drama sell. It gives the UFC more matchmaking flexibility just in case.
by ZombieWamma on Oct 27, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I’m against. I want the best lyoto & the best machida.
Btw what’s up with barry? 6 month for what injury?
10/24
by spectaa on Oct 27, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you mean the best Machida and best Shogun right :P
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 27, 2009 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the best Mauricio and the best Rua!
by ZombieWamma on Oct 27, 2009 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He mentioned in an interview that his thumb was pretty jacked up; it’s Fanhouse’s interview that the staff posted yesterday(ish))
"That feeling after you win and they raise your hand... it's like you have this energy that releases from your body, and it's like you mingle with the cosmos, and you feel omnipotent"
by woomikee on Oct 27, 2009 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
how come the medical suspension report
did not mention anything regarding his hands?
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 27, 2009 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Could get missed...
I mean, they’re not doing x-rays. They ask if everything feels okay (which it can at the time) and just do very basic stuff. It’s very possible for things to slide.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 27, 2009 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where you been bro?? Finals don’t start till Late Nov/ early Dec.. Haven’t seen an article on here in a while..
by miked612 on Oct 27, 2009 8:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Working on some side business projects. Been insanely busy.
by Michael Rome on Oct 27, 2009 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Working on some side business projects
With those nice Colombian fellows?
by ufc4 on Oct 27, 2009 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You wanna know some bullshit?
I take finals in January, after Christmas break.
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Robert Downey Sr. on Oct 28, 2009 3:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know what they NEED for the rematch?
UFC 24/7
This would be a perfect fight to do a 24/7 style build up to the fight. It not only hypes up the fight even more but it also delves further into Machida, who has been gaining popularity, and Shogun, who many casual fans do not know too much about and who most people saw winning the previous fight.
It would be a great chance to show the Pride Shogun and really get the casual fans to know him better. I know he gained a lot of fans by KOing Liddell and then beating Machida.
by Discman2 on Oct 27, 2009 8:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You mean losing to Machida =)
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Oct 28, 2009 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jan 2nd is still 10 weeks away
4 weeks to rest and a 6 week training camp. Seems like plenty of time.
However, knowing Blackhouse and Ed Soares, this will not happen.
by Razzel on Oct 27, 2009 10:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
machida’s puzzle has been solved. a patient muay thai attack with a solid chin and he’s not the same demi-god ppl were saying. end of story. and razzel’s right…soares won’t fly it the easy way.
Gatti. Dekkers. Pele. Aoki. Kang. Vanderlei.
http://theworldsoldestsport.blogspot.com/
by theworldsoldestsport on Oct 27, 2009 11:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
haha you make it sound so easy…not only will Machida adjust, but how many other guys at 205 could pull off that strategy?…Vera, if he has a horseshoe up his ass or maybe Jones in a few years.
by DamnSevern on Oct 28, 2009 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I agree. The Machida puzzle has indeed been solved, you just have to have the skill and talent of Shogun to pull it off.
The other guys at LHW are going to have to come up with their own strategy, because they can’t do what Shogun can do.
by Razzel on Oct 28, 2009 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
educate judges
Espn is always updating about the UFC…..That means it cant make any mistakes on tv like it did with machida vs shogun fight. Its not the old UFC, it needs to be almost perfect, its an huge industry now. The judges are lagging in there education of mma. punches count better then kicks….BS. kicks f"n hurt. These judges have no idea and need to update themselves. maybe monthly courses of mma education on how to score a fight or make them actually train. they’ll learn fast that way.
by rickyg$ on Oct 28, 2009 4:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know if it’s been posted, but didn’t Machida say something in regards to a rematch “I fight whenever, I try again”, “I’m sorry”.
by MrJobro on Oct 29, 2009 8:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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