DREAM Promoter Would Like to Put On Fedor Emelianenko vs Alistair Overeem in Japan
by Kid Nate on Oct 26, 2009 9:45 PM EDT
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Michael David Smith reports:
When (DreamDREAM Event Producer Keiichi) Sasahara was told about Overeem's desire to fight Fedor, he said he was excited about the possibility of it.
"That would be great," Sasahara said. "That's a fight I really want to see. ... It's not an easy fight to get together but it's a fight I would like to see. I'll do what I can to make it happen in the near future."
Overeem has commented that he wants to fight Fedor in April of 2010. He hinted at the time that he would be fighting in North America, but it might be that DREAM is willing to make a play for the fight. MDS goes on:
But would it happen in Dream or Strikeforce? The two promotions have a partnership, and both are open to co-promoting with Fedor's promotion, M-1 Global, so determining a venue for the fight won't be a battle among competing promotions so much as it will be a group of business partners deciding where they can make the most money.
With Fedor's CBS debut only a couple of weeks away, we will know very soon if the American MMA market (as distinct from the American UFC market) has enough demand for Fedor to outbid DREAM for the Fedor/Overeem fight.
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Please be in America..
I would love to see that fight, and I would love to see the end of all the steroids talk.
It would just shift from “He’s ’roiding!” to “He’s cycling!”
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Oct 26, 2009 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah people just shit all over Alistair, complete lack of respect. If the guy has failed a test let me know, other wise I believe people should not making glaring accusations at professional athletes.
Um
It’s not that hard to bulk up. If he was fighting at 205lbs, of course he’d try to purposely keep his weight down by eating less and lifting less. I’ve gained 40lbs on a 1.5 year period lifting weights and eating a lot. It’s not that big of a deal.
by majesticlamb on Oct 27, 2009 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Of course none of us know one way or the other, but gaining 40 lbs in a 1.5 year is a big deal. Genetics play a huge part in that… but 95% of the world’s population cannot put on 40lbs in a year and a half no matter how hard they worked out and ate. On top of that, its completely lean muscle.
Also, he looks like a bodybuilder… as if that’s all he’s doing is lifting big weights, that type of physique doesn’t typically come with an mma or kickboxing workout regimen.
I’d love to be pointed to another example of that type of growth in a combat sports training environment.
But he may just be a genetic freak… and I’m not saying that to be facetious.
Well it completely depends. If he was purposely keeping his weight down and was younger, and then let the weight come on right after your frame matures and wants to put on the extra weight, I don’t really see the complete impossibility either.
I don’t think its a complete impossibility… I just don’t think most people realize how difficult it is to put on large amounts of lean muscle… even if you workout like a bodybuilder and eat appropriately.
Professional bodybuilders, who are on growth enhancers and dedicate their lives to getting bigger, have a really hard time making those gains.
I see what you’re saying, but wouldn’t a lot of it have to do with where he’s at in his bodies’ maturity/age? I mean, a guy whose already been bodybuilding hardcore and his body has reached it’s mass potential would have a lot harder time gaining lean muscle mass then the guy that’s deliberately keeping his weight down, right? I’m only speculating though. I have no expertise on this, just talking out my bumm.
It is a possibility that he may be on roids but I’d give him the benefit of the doubt. It’s true he’s put on ALOT of lean mass granted that I gained 2%BF while on my bulking regiment but still, he could have much better genetics than I. Beginner gains are when you gain the most mass (usually the first 6-12months when you start lifting to bulk up) and he could’ve easily put on 35 of his 50lbs that he gained within that period. Then again all we are doing is speculating, we really have no way of proving whether or not he juices.
by majesticlamb on Oct 27, 2009 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Those pictures aren't proportionate.
His overall size changes from picture – too much to demonstrate accurately any growth from steroids. You’d need a scale for each picture to show anything meaningful.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Oct 27, 2009 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Havent we been over and over and over this already in multiple threads recently? Enough of pulling that picture out as though it’s proof of anything.
This isn’t sherdog where a cool pic wins a thread.
(directed at bleve_ )
"Like a ballet of violence clothed in fine Brazilian silk." ~ MMASuPreMaCy
Part of me is just about willing to overlook Overeem’s possible (likely?) steroid use to see this. It’s not as good as if he signed with the UFC, but I’d rather see this than him fight Rogers. The only caveat is that Fedor leveled Tim in one flurry and put AA out with one punch in a steroid-testing environment, so if AO is juicing, and isn’t tested for it, it’s very dangerous for Fedor considering how brutally AO has been winning K-1 fights. I’m also completely sick of the ‘roid allegations, but I can’t think of how he began winning so dramatically without them.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Oct 26, 2009 9:56 PM EDT reply actions
Here's my thing--
If Fedor takes that fight in Japan, we can’t harp on the possibility of PED abuse. Anyone can be doing it there. Just because AO is a monster doesn’t mean we have to zoom in on him and give Fedor a pre-packaged excuse in the case of a loss.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Oct 26, 2009 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions
It doesn’t matter where it takes place for PEDs (or more likely HGHs) to be abused. We have to stop pretending that just because there is ‘testing’ in the US that athletes don’t find ways to circumnavigate the system.
In other words I’ll find an excuse wherever he loses.
Neither here nor there
If you’re arguing where it’s more abused; somewhere where it’s not tested for or somewhere that it is, I won’t argue with you because that’s ridiculous.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Oct 26, 2009 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions
“Lisa, a guy who’s got lots of ivory is less likely to hurt Stampy than a guy whose ivory supplies are low.”
by John Nash on Oct 26, 2009 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
You did have an elephant. His name was Stampy. You loved him.
BOOSH
by Farthammer on Oct 27, 2009 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
well for one thing
He’s fighting much weaker opponents than he was facing in his PRIDE days.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Hari? Remy? Aerts?
That’s a tough set, especially considering he can’t take it to the ground.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Oct 26, 2009 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm talking about his MMA opponents
But I don’t buy the premise that roids make someone a great kickboxer.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Ah, yes, his MMA opponents have been less-than-stellar, absolutely. Why do you seem to separate using in kickboxing and using in MMA?
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Oct 26, 2009 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t buy the premise that roids make someone a great kickboxer.
I was asking for a clarification on this.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Oct 26, 2009 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Collaborations are key in a lot of business models and it looks like there will be a lot of comparison opportunities in the near future between SF, Dream and M-1’s philosophies and the UFC. The UFC is facing serious adversity right now with all the bad luck so it will be interesting to see how things are fairing in the early part of next year.
Cocky always has a way of biting you in the ass… and Dana and co. have been cocky… to a fault, we’ll see.
The UFC is facing serious adversity right now with all the bad luck
Yeah, they will only make 27 million rather than 30 million.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Oct 27, 2009 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’m sure all these last minute injuries, hollywood dreams and venue changes aren’t adding up.
Thanks for the business analysis in a vacuum.
You think this is something new? Zuffa goes through this all the time (injuries, Hollywood dreams, etc..) the only difference is the faces change.
The question you should be asking is how these other companies handle these challenges.
Every year Zuffa has made it through stronger and leaner while the competition has been dying off.
Name an instance where collaboration has worked in the fight business? It doesn’t and you’re seeing examples why. strikeforce, M-1’s, etc… business model is unraveling right before our eyes:
Strikeforce took mousasi out of the super hulk tournament because they had too much to risk if he lost.
Mousasi doesnt want to fight hendo unless he gets paid more. Strikeforce now faces the prospect of not only having to meet Dan hendersons purse demands but they also have to pay Mousasi enough to take the fight.
Overeem doesnt fight in strikeforce because his market value has gone up and his old contract doesn’t reflect this so strikeforce has a champ who hasnt fought for them in 2 years.
Overeem states that he wants the Fedor fight in Dream. COLLABORATION IS AWESOME!
Cung Le gave up his belt… etc, etc…
M-1 has put every other organization they have collaborated with out of business.
Come on…
believe me their problems have just started and will only multiply as they try to compete with the UFC.
I would argue that ufc’s past competition didn’t have the business savvy that these combined organizations have. M-1 is obviously the weak link but sf does not have the market share that the ufc had so a co-promotion isn’t exactly giving away the farm as they grow.
Overeem’s already stated that he wants to fight Fedor and it will happen if Fedor gets past Rogers… it may happen if he doesn’t.
You’re saying SF, M-1, and DREAM’s business model is unraveling before our eyes based off the Hendo, Mousasi match up??
Cung Le gave up the belt and SF still grew, what’s your point?
I’m just saying that SF may have got it right with collaboration, SF and DREAM aren’t exactly like the other companies that folded when doing business with M-1.
Why would SF agree to this?
Isnt their only hope of making money putting on big fights like this? If they allow this to happen in Dream then what is the point of even signing Fedor?
Well
Co-promotion goes both ways and so far only SF is scheduled to see dividends. That’s why.
"I’m sorry. I didn’t drink last night, so I’m not funny today."
-Sakuraba
by Blackout612 on Oct 26, 2009 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Alistair Overeem means less in America than Fedor. Despite the fact that he is the Strikeforce champion, it’s not as though they would be losing a big money match by allowing this to take place in DREAM.
Additionally, they may get some portion of the pay out for the DREAM fight as part of their alliance.
Of course, with M-1 calling at least some of the shots when it comes to promoting Fedor, Strikeforce may not have the ultimate say in the matter.
...Behold, a pale horse. The man that sat upon it was Wieters, and hell followed with him.
"BJ on the BE" - Kierkegaard
by Brett Jones on Oct 26, 2009 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions
A couple thoughts/questions:
1) Does Fedor fighting in Japan count as one of his three Strikefoce fights?
2) Could Strikeforce broadcast this on either tape delay on CBS or Showtime or maybe even payperview and thereby get a great card at an affordable price? i know HDNet broadcasts the Dream cards in the US, but does that apply to Dream/Strikeforce cards?
3) We won’t know until after November 7th if Fedor (or more importantly CBS and Strikeforce) have enough pull to make that fight worthwhile in the US.
It’s hard to answer these because the “alliance” like tons of things in the wonderful world of mma, is more talk than action.
I don’t know the specifics of the deal between Dream and HDNet, but I think it’s safe to assume that it would complicate CBS/Showtime from getting their hands on it if it’s under the Dream banner. And if there is a Fedor fight that Mark Cuban has the rights to air, i don’t think he will roll over or give it away for free, he was the money behind Randy’s “resignment” and was pushing to get in on the Randy/Fedor action.
Strikeforce can’t even make Overeem come defend his title. It doesn’t have total control over him, let alone Fedor.
Nobody knows for sure what the terms of Fedor’s contract are. For all we know, M-1 has final say over when, where, and who Fedor fights. In fact, that’s the most likely situation.
M-1 couldn’t care less about Strikeforce. Vadim and co. just want to put Fedor in situations to make as much money as possible. That’s why M-1 destroys everyone it partners with.
It'd be hard to evaluate Fedor's drawing power after one fight on cbs...
But since he’ll probably win, they’ll have footage and a more solid base from which to promote him. He will probably get big by the second, third fights.
by verloc on Oct 26, 2009 10:17 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Financially sound?
You make an excellent point. One knockout/sub isn’t going to make him a star. It’s going to take several exciting or devastating fights to get him over. And over opposition who will impress the mainstream/casual audience.
And then they might be able to start earning some of the money they’ll have paid him back.
I think a lot does hinge on the Fedor/Rogers show. Maybe, as it gets closer, Strikeforce can gin up some decent interest. I just don’t see it right now. Honestly, it would be nice for them if they had a really interesting hook for the casual type fan.
I’d like to see Overeem vs. Fedor, but who knows? I’m guessing that whomever promotes it (assuming the fight happens) will need a nice stack of cash.
by Cannon Jacques on Oct 26, 2009 10:26 PM EDT reply actions
This is how co promotion and non exclusive contracts kill an organization
by kanodogg on Oct 26, 2009 11:15 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
This actually makes tons of sense for Strikeforce. Stretch yourself thin by paying out for a marquee athlete upon which you’re going to build your entire model on for gaining respectability. Have him fight an over hyped newcomer with questionable skills. Then lend him out to another promotion where he’ll fight your heavyweight beltholder, who incidentally hasn’t fought for your organization in more than a year.
If there’s a downside in this for Strikeforce, it’s buried underneath the layers.
by Dooda on Oct 27, 2009 1:35 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
I don’t care where it takes place. I just want it to happen.
I love me some Sexyama!
by pud333 on Oct 27, 2009 1:41 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Huge fight
I wanna see it , don’t care where it happens (the white cage thingy is actually pretty damn cool)
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