Machida's Mistakes/Shogun's Successes (gif heavy)
Hooray, my first fanpost! This one will be a doozy and reminiscent of the Judo Chop series. It's also posted at bullshido.net. Here we go.
So we all know now that a rematch is going to happen between Shogun and Machida. Since BROK® pulled out of his UFC 106 fight with Carwin (rescheduled to Jan. 2nd), it's even possible that this fight could replace theirs at UFC 106 (note that this is pure speculation, I haven't heard it reported or even rumored yet). So Lyoto Machida needs a gameplan, and fast. What did he do wrong at UFC 104? What did Mauricio "Shogun" Rua do right? Here's my (long-winded) opinion, for what it's worth.
(***Note that I'm no technical genius and have a total of probably 3 months of Muay Thai training. However, I've been boxing for a year and a half, been an MMA fan for 5 years and formerly trained for a loooong time in Tang Soo Do, aka Korean Shotokan***)
EDIT: I've tried to add some examples for those re-watching the fight. I've marked down rounds and times where you can see some of the things I talk about happening (that there aren't already gifs of).
1. Footwork
A. Circling
This mistake was so glaring to me, I'm surprised more people haven't been mentioning it. For (usually) having such great elusive footwork, Machida circled to his left, better known as "where Shogun's right leg lives" the entire fight. Let's watch the replays the UFC showed at the end of round 5.
via i38.tinypic.com
Notice especially the leg kick and punch. In both cases, Shogun leaps forward with a wild left-handed fake. Machida goes for it, moves to his left and eats a tremendous front leg power kick and a stunning overhand right, respectively, for his trouble.
Shogun did this all night long, from the first round to the last, and had a lot of success with it. Mostly he used it to set up body kicks, which he landed at a decent rate. Machida continuously moved away from a jab or feint from the left hand, straight into an oncoming Shogun body kick.
Examples
There are multiple examples just in the first round.
-Round 1, 4:15 remaining: Shogun stalks forward, covering up, with his lead foot outside of Machida's lead foot. Machida circles in the wrong direction, straight into the first good body kick of the night
-Round 1, 2:10 left: The same action is essentially repeated. Shogun gets Machida moving with advancing footwork and a wild left hook, and Machida barely avoids the following right body kick by literally throwing himself back against the fence.
-Round 1, 1:44 left: Here's an example of footwork hampering Machida's own offense. Here he steps to his left, then immediately fires off a poorly-aimed punch at Shogun's chin. Whether Shogun's body kick counter affected the accuracy of the punch (it's hard to tell), the step to Machida's right takes his left hand off and angle where it can come straight in at Shogun's chin, and gives Shogun's right leg a shorter path to Machida's body. Good timing on the counter by Shogun, but Machida messed up his own offense here.
-Finally, one positive example. Round 1, 1:32 left: Moving away after a missed left low kick of his own, Machida circles to his right, causing Shogun to reach hard for a right low kick, which he lands with little power on Machida's left leg. Shogun's corner makes noise about it, but it's not an effective way to kick over the course of a fight.
There are lots more examples of Machida's footwork working to Shogun's advantage, but I won't bother to list all of them.
B. Blocking
To make matters worse, Machida's left arm was usually in no position to block a body kick. Instead, he usually tried to sweep the kick away with his right hand. This is a decent defense, particularly against straight kicks, when you want to catch the foot as it comes in. In this case however, reaching across the body to catch a roundhouse kick traveling the other direction proved to be ineffective. Making matters worse, naturally, was that Machida moved into the kick by circling to Shogun's right, giving himself even less time to parry the kick or catch the foot.
The solution to this problem is fairly simple. Machida needs to circle to his right, away from Shogun's power. This might also create a better angle for his left straight and left body kicks, if he can pull it off.
Examples
-The cleanest example of his comes just 10 seconds in the first round. Shogun throws his first body kick of the night. It misses, but only because he's out of range. You can see Shogun's foot and leg reaches Machida's body before it gets to the arm Machida is trying to defend with. Machida's left arm stays up around his head, possibly fearing a head kick? This defensive strategy continues all night for Machida, and Shogun's right leg meets body before it meets hand pretty much every time.
-One more example, freeze-frame with 2:23 left in the 2nd round. Shogun throws a body kicks that lands clean, and the camera angle is perfect to show Lyoto's right arm being ineffective in stopping the kick. It ends up on top of Shogun's leg, while the kick has already found it's mark. Simply put, trying to sweep away a body kick with the opposite arm to the side it's already going will not work. It's just too slow and relies on getting the body out of the way of the kick to really work.
2. Head movement
I feel like maybe this is related to his footwork. Simply put, I didn't see Lyoto being confident enough to step to the outside (his right) of Shogun's left jab, and I'm wondering if it's because he lacks any head movement beyond forward and backwards. He's shown small flashes of it in the past, but only when leading with his arms. Note how he avoids Nakamura's punches to set up his sweeps.
via a100.ac-images.myspacecdn.com
He didn't do this at all against Shogun, and to be honest I think Shogun's power scared him. Look above to the gif during the last round, Shogun's wild overhand right that knocked Machida against the fence. Machida clearly respects that wild left-handed fake. Why? Compare it to a similar feint from Rashad.
The biggest difference I see, beyond respecting power or not, is that Shogun already had Machida backing up before he throws this feint. Therefore, Machida is not in position to counter with any power, and it comes back to footwork again. Shogun realized he needed to disrupt Machida's space with footwork before attacking, while Rashad tried to disrupt Machida with fakes before entering with footwork. We can see which one was more effective.
Coming back to head movement, here's a gif that demonstrates the aspect of Machida's game that I personally always thought would be his achilles heel. This is from Machida's flurry at the end of the 3rd round.
via i33.tinypic.com
Machida does a decent job of pressing the action here, and lands more shots than he takes. But look at his hands-down at his sides. Watch his head-it moves only forward and back, away from Shogun's punches and in when Machida is attacking. Basically, he gets away with it because he's attacking, and only sustains an attack like this when he thinks he's hurt (or can hurt) his opponent, but this is a recipe for disaster. The biggest shot landed in the entire exchange is the big right hook Shogun throws, which may have rocked Machida and caused him to initiate the clinch. If he's going to have success being aggressive at left straight chamber-punching range (his best weapon), Machida either must keep his hands up, or start moving his head side to side.
Example
-Hard to find a decent example of lack of head movement, but I think I've found one. With 4:40 left in the 2nd, Machida hits Shogun with a good front kick to the body. However, when he does so, his hands are down at his waist, and his upper body is leaning back. This means that when his body comes straight forward to neutral again, his head follows the exact same path it took going backwards, and his hands are nowhere to protect his face. Shogun capitalizes with a jab that meets Machida's forward-moving head, gets him on the defensive, and nails him with a hard inside leg kick as he circles the wrong direction against the cage.
3. Accuracy
A. Machida
This was another downright uncharacteristic aspect of Lyoto's performance. Usually the 2nd most accurate fighter in the UFC (behind Anderson), Machida missed an unusual number of head power strikes (41 according to FightMetric), many of them straight lefts. As pointed out in a UFC 104 discussion thread on bullshido, many of these simply bounced off a static guard from Shogun, missing his chin right between the two arms. Shogun's head movement while kicking had an impact too, however.
via i37.tinypic.com
Notice Shogun's body kick from round 1. I can't tell if this is bad accuracy or poor targeting from Machida, meaning: did he intend to hit the chin and miss horribly? Or did he intent to hit the body, in which case it was a poor choice for a body kick counter? Either way, the punch did not hit its intended target (chin or solar plexus), partly due to the movement of Shogun's body and head while kicking. Shogun also follows up with a decently powerful punch to the head, highlighting Machida's lack of head movement or shoulder roll on the punching side.
Examples
-Round 1, 4:11 remaining: Machida's very first combination of the night is really tentative. In particular, his left punch following the kick is aimed at precisely nowhere and hits Shogun on the elbow. Very uncharacteristic.
-Round 1, :20 remaining: Again, Machida aims a left straight to somewhere on Shogun's chest and drops the punch halfway there when Shogun counters with a body kick. If he were going to disrupt a possible counter, he would have to hit Shogun square on the chin-a chest punch won't do the job.
B. Shogun
Part of Machida's inability to counter Shogun's kicks (besides circling the wrong way) was Shogun's excellent kicking technique. Let's compare a kick Rashad Evans threw to one Shogun threw in the 2nd round.
via i35.tinypic.com
This perfectly highlights what makes Shogun so damn good at Muay Thai. Although his boxing technique has never been excellent, look at how: 1. Shogun turns his body 180º with amazing quickness, 2. Rolls his shoulder to protect his chin, and 3. Throws the kick with a bent knee in the perfect trajectory to catch Lyoto across the abdomen rather than on the side. In particular, Shogun's placement of the shin takes away all the power of Lyoto's counter. This is tragic for Machida, as it's one of the few times in the fight he's able to stand his ground and line up his favorite power punch accurately. Being Machida, he's quick enough to try and follow up with a sweep of Shogun's left leg, but the kick is so powerful that it's robbed him of the necessary balance.
Compare Shogun's kick to Rashad's, where Rashad gives away the kick with unnecessary motion, fails to turn his body quickly enough, does not roll the shoulder and aims for Machida's side rather than the front of his body.
Example
-2nd round, 1:36 left: Once again, a perfect camera angle. This time, Shogun actually switches legs and hits Lyoto with a lead low kick. Machida sees the switch coming and loads up a big left hand, but when he delivers the punch Shogun has moved his head off line and gotten his right hand in front of his face, defending himself from the counter while landing the kick full-power. Machida's counter may have actually landed (too fast to tell), but it doesn't hurt Shogun as much as the leg kick hurts Machida, due to Shogun's technique while kicking.
-3rd round, 2:29 left: Off a Machida lead leg kick while in orthodox, Shogun uses perfect technique and recognition. He takes the kick, realizing it's not powerful, stays home with his defense and returns a blistering low kick to Machida's exposed left leg.
Machida's Successes and Future Plans
A. What Machida Should NOT Do
Check leg kicks.
I realize this is crazy talk. The best defense against leg kicks is to check them, of course! The problem is, I believe lifting the front leg to check Shogun's kicks would disrupt Lyoto's stance an inordinate amount because so much weight is on Machida's front leg. He relies on that stance for power in his punching and in order to move quickly. Shifting weight to pick the front leg up is slow and invites punches to his face-undefended by his hands, which are down by his chest most of the time. Shogun would have a field day mixing up leg kicks with feints and following up with straight punches. It's a better idea to circle to the correct side and force Shogun to either reach with his right leg or take the time to switch stances and kick with his left. Both of these invite counter opportunities, either from being off balance, or the time it takes to switch stances.
B. What Machida Should Do
In my opinion, Machida's main success was highlighted in the rounds 1 and 2 gifs found above. In both of those rounds he was able to land multiple earth-shattering knees that Shogun took with characteristic stoicism. Still, I was surprised at how effective those knees were against such a good Muay Thai practitioner. In particular Machida's quick switching of stances before moving in during the 1st round gif seemed to put Shogun on the defensive and add power to the strike (this knee happened with 3:04 left in the 1st). Machida should think about using these knees (or faking them) to set up his left straight in the rematch.
Essentially, the rest of Machida's gameplan should be first and foremost to circle to his RIGHT. As mentioned before, this will set up his own left straight and left leg while avoiding Shogun's power side.
He also needs to make a commitment to keeping his hands up at least shoulder level at all times. Head movement would be great, but learning to accurately slip the correct miniscule amount while not exposing himself to headkicks against a great kicker like Shogun, all within the time Machida has before the rematch...that just won't happen.
Finally, I think Machida needs to be more aggressive with his foot sweeps and leg kicks. In particular, Lyoto needs to use his foot sweeps in the clinch in order to keep Shogun from kneeing the bejesus about of his legs again. Even though Shogun likely has the slightly better ground game, looking for opportunities to kick out Shogun's plant leg and put him on the ground can dramatically alter the power and commitment Shogun is willing to kick with. He can take a page out of Shogun's book here (Page out of Shogun...heh. Anyway). There's one moment in the fight that perfectly illustrates how Machida needs to use his already-sharp timing differently-the way Shogun did in the first fight.
At 3:13 of the 1st round, Machida throws a left body kick. Shogun covers up and waits until the kick is inches away from his arms, then turns his body and hits Machida's plant leg with a kick at exactly the moment he is most off balance, and has the most weight on that plant leg: right after the kick has hit Shogun's arm and started to come back to the ground. This perfect counter takes away Machida's target and punishes him for throwing the kick in the first place.
Shogun used this tactic throughout the fight, defending against Machida's kicks with his arms while throwing a simultaneous leg kick to the plant leg, and it was unbelievably effective. Machida should try to kick lower, to minimize Shogun coming underneath with counters, throw more credible kick feints to bait Shogun into swinging when he shouldn't, and try to apply the same kick counters to Shogun's body kicks.
In closing, I think this plan is workable in the month or two Machida will have to prepare for an already-confident, more-determined Shogun when they meet again.
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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Comments
GREAT STUFF
I love it.
It would be great if you could identify times in the fight where key events happen that aren’t captured in gifs you have access to.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Oct 26, 2009 10:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks!
I’ll do my best. I’ll try and re-watch the fight sometime before tomorrow evening and mark down round times of examples.
by gzl5000 on Oct 26, 2009 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are there any examples (or additional material) in particular you’d like me to address?
by gzl5000 on Oct 26, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
just the stuff you've been talking about
also any really great instances of shogun’s footwork stalking down Machida.
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by Kid Nate on Oct 27, 2009 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whew. Done! I added a few examples to each section. They’re mostly from the first half of the fight because those are what I saw first, but many of them are repeated into the 3rd, 4th and 5th rounds.
by gzl5000 on Oct 27, 2009 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Come to think of it
I had actually been hoping for you to both continue/complete any planned Judo Chop on Machida’s trip takedowns (as opposed to the foot sweeps covered under the kuzushi waza Judo Chop) AND to do a Judo Chop on Machida-Shogun I… not to justify a Machida win or a Shogun win, but to bring for content usable to help evolve the sport’s level.
by Chortles on Oct 26, 2009 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if time allows
I shall.
I’m kind of disappointed that they never really fought for takedowns in the clinch since they’ve both used them so well in the past. I think Shogun’s balance would give him the edge.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Kid Nate on Oct 27, 2009 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shogun fought for a number of them. I recognized the technique he used against lil nog (a fight I’ve watched jonks of times) which seems to use his unreal leg power and balance to simply hoist them over his left hip and to the ground. He tried that with machida and Machida stuffed it every time. I also seem to remember a single leg, but I can’t be sure. I couldn’t figure out where Machida’s sweeps were though. He didn’t seem to be trying to set them up at all.
by Dooda on Oct 27, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And they could’ve been a very useful counter to Shogun’s knees in the clinch.
by gzl5000 on Oct 27, 2009 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great post. Keep them coming. Rec’d
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
by ANance on Oct 26, 2009 11:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
THIS
The single most productive MMA post or comment I’ve seen after UFC 104. WAR GZL5000
by Chortles on Oct 26, 2009 11:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Best article I have seen written here in a long time
Well done, very well done.
"Why am I here? Why does my mind have wings? Why do blue midgets hit me with fish?!" - The Tick
by mythbuster on Oct 26, 2009 11:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'll say what everybody is thinking
What Machida should do:
Move down to 185. He’s obviously too small for the weight class.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Oct 26, 2009 11:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I hope you are joking.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Oct 26, 2009 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely not.
If anything, he should probably go ahead and retire. He’s already thirty-one: clearly this last fight showed his dramatic physical decline.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Oct 27, 2009 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
*facepalm*
Are you trying to make Machida vs. Anderson Silva happen?
by Chortles on Oct 27, 2009 4:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
'facepalm'
I was of course being sarcastic. I was joking about how seemingly after every loss, there are really only two responses regarding their future. If anybody thinks even a syllable of that was serious, I don’t know what I can do for you.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Oct 27, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he should move up to Heavy Weight
"Why am I here? Why does my mind have wings? Why do blue midgets hit me with fish?!" - The Tick
Please don't delete this post, Mr. Mod
by mythbuster on Oct 27, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just some counterpoints:

This gif I think shows some of the worst attacks Shogun did in the fight. The hard body kick/knee left him wide open to the counter left from Lyoto, causing him to stumble and go for the half ass takedown. There were many more where he covered his face and blocked the counter strike while still getting in with a kick.

In this exchange, Shogun lands clean with two strikes, the initial leg kick and the right at the end. Machida lands with the right straight countering the leg kick, a knee, a left hook and a body kick. Both fighters miss a lot of strikes in the exchange. Machida actually uses upper body movement and head movement to dodge the strikes from Shogun while Shogun depends on his arms caging his head to protect it.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Oct 26, 2009 11:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
For the first, I’ll agree that he covered his head while kicking a lot more than usual (for a muay thai stylist), which let him block strikes effectively. However, in that particular clip it didn’t look to me like Machida’s punch hit him hard at all-Shogun definitely rolled his shoulder up to protect his chin. If you look closely, the attempted leg sweep looks more like what threw him off balance.
For the second, I’ll also agree that both fighters missed a fair amount, and that Machida won the exchange based on the number of strikes he landed (I scored this round for him based on this flurry). Machida used head movement to some degree, but as you identify it’s based on how his body is moving-back defensively or forward offensively. What he’s missing is moving his head off it’s line of movement just before or after an attack. Shogun does this better, but has the severe disadvantage of not being able to kick or use footwork effectively, being up against the cage.
Imagine if the roles were reversed-Machida were up against the cage and Shogun were advancing. Machida’s aim would be to run away immediately, having his only kind of head movement (forward and back) taken away from him. This doesn’t suit Lyoto against Shogun, because punching range is where he wants to be to do his damage. Shogun’s side to side head movement, while not the most technical, still gives him better changes to create angles where his punches will land and Lyoto’s will miss.
Essentially, Lyoto’s lack of head movement means he needs to be either in punching range or kicking (and move back and forth between them) to avoid danger. Shogun’s ability to move his head while covering up means he can survive an extended exchange there, despite his ability (in this fight) to control kicking range better. Basically, Shogun was better able to handle Machida where Machida wanted to be than the other way around due to a combination of footwork and head movement.
by gzl5000 on Oct 27, 2009 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How can you score a flurry when every single punch is defended?
by George Lucas on Oct 27, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Machida landed the punch to start the exchange (countering Shogun’s leg kick), a knee to the midsection, a body kick and a right uppercut just after the body kick. As iiowyn said above, Shogun landed only the initial leg kick and the right hook at the end of the exchange.
by gzl5000 on Oct 27, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
punch to start the exchange (countering Shogun’s leg kick)
Defended. Shogun’s hands were up and his head didn’t recoil.
a knee to the midsection,
I’ll give you that one.
a body kick
Defended. Shogun deflects it with both hands. Of all of the strikes in that flurry, this is the easiest to see defended.
a right uppercut
Defended. Again, Shogun has his guard up and his head doesn’t budge.
Some things might have gotten through Shogun’s defense, of course, but without any indication that they’re doing damage there’s no way you can weigh that heavier than the undefended strikes that Shogun countered with that clearly did hurt Machida. Shogun lands more than you give him credit for, landing two punches while moving backwards, and one or maybe two lefts when he’s against the cage.
by George Lucas on Oct 27, 2009 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The punch to start the exchange was absolutely not blocked. Watch it from a different angle:

I’m currently re-watching the entire exchange and trying to find gifs/pictures from different angles for the rest of them.
Shogun’s head not moving doesn’t mean punches didn’t land. None of Shogun’s punches except for the last landed clean or moved Machida either.
by gzl5000 on Oct 27, 2009 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
On further viewing, I can’t tell with the body kick; I think Shogun got his elbow on Machida’s shin, but was hit near the liver with the foot. The uppercut just before Shogun’s hook definitely landed, you can see it clearly on the telecast, which was from the opposite angle as the gif.
by gzl5000 on Oct 28, 2009 2:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nicely done Sir.
I think Shogun came for a long fight and wore Machida down to the point of frustration.
I cant wait for the second fight. I think we’ll see Machida step it up a notch.
"Like a ballet of violence clothed in fine Brazilian silk." ~ MMASuPreMaCy
by Benicio on Oct 27, 2009 12:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Great post!
I think Machida was just shook a bit by Shogun’s patience and speed, and became pretty tentative by the middle of the second round. It left him unable to make good adjustments, and, perhaps because he was worried about Shogun’s ground game, he missed quite a few opportunities to throw a knee or especially a flying knee to Shogun’s head, particularly the few times he staggered Shogun and pressed him back against the cage. Perhaps because he’s been so completely dominant in his career, he’s gotten a bit fixed and conservative in his approach. I noticed the need to circle away from Shogun’s right leg early on, and expected him to adapt, and he never did. I’m really curious to see what adjustments he makes for the rematch. You made quite a few great points here. Thanks.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 27, 2009 1:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
FWIW
I haven’t heard of Shogun being this strategically/tactically patient, and Shogun may not have been the last time that either Anderson or Lyoto trained with him. PRIDE MWGP 2005 Shogun would’ve been whooped fierce by New Shogun.
I don’t really think that Machida came into the fight at 100% as he claimed, and I think that it might have actually been protecting his ego (to claim that he did).
by Chortles on Oct 27, 2009 2:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re right, Shogun showed a level of patience, strategy and discipline unheard of in his PRIDE days (though they were pretty head-stompin’ awesome).
Lyoto looked 100% to me (physically, anyway). Aside from the circling problem, which I think may be a bad habit he’s gotten away with because he’s fast enough to get out of punching range in that direction, and the bad accuracy, maybe because Shogun’s kicks took his base away, Lyoto looked like the same fighter we saw win the title, just confronted with an exceptional opponent.
by gzl5000 on Oct 27, 2009 2:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pardon my ignorance but FWIW? Shogun definitely looked great, and possibly just more mature now. As to Machida, I don’t know, but I thought it was pretty strange that his brother’s had bags of ice at the ready. Maybe that goes on all the time and I just haven’t noticed it, or they maybe expected him to get his legs beaten on, but they were icing both legs…and of course, most people don’t drink their urine every morning, so the Machida’s, in general, may adhere to their own health and recovery practices :)
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 27, 2009 2:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would make sense for them to bring the ice bags for Shogun. Previous opponents I don’t recall being really known for being proficient in kicking, much less really making a strategy out of it, whether due to “headhunter syndrome” or other strategic shortcomings, so it may not have been “seriously” prepared for until Shogun… though of course Shogun was better than they planned for.
by Chortles on Oct 27, 2009 4:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
for what it’s worth
"Why am I here? Why does my mind have wings? Why do blue midgets hit me with fish?!" - The Tick
by mythbuster on Oct 27, 2009 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In this case, a fighter not afflicted with “headhunter syndrome.” It would be interesting to see how a post-rematch Machida, win or lose, deal with a headhunter-type LHW, stereotypical boxer/wrestler or otherwise?
Seeing the disturbance in Lyoto’s corner with him actually being visibly flustered BEFORE the fight though had me immediately thinking “Not 100%”… so much for mushin! Physically 100% perhaps, but not the crucial mentally/“spiritually” 100%. Admitting his technical flaws might be easier on his ego than admitting that he could have a mental/spiritual off-night…
by Chortles on Oct 27, 2009 4:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pardon my ignorance but FWIW? Shogun definitely looked great, and possibly just more mature now. As to Machida, I don’t know, but I thought it was pretty strange that his brother’s had bags of ice at the ready. Maybe that goes on all the time and I just haven’t noticed it, or they maybe expected him to get his legs beaten on, but they were icing both legs…and of course, most people don’t drink their urine every morning, so the Machida’s, in general, may adhere to their own health and recovery practices :)
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 27, 2009 2:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
So who do you think will win the rematch?
And what do you think Shogun needs to do differently?
by mmalogic on Oct 27, 2009 2:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That….is an extremely good question. I think it’s mostly in Machida’s hands to learn from this, and I’ll be rooting for him, he’s my favorite fighter. Shogun’s an incredible fighter though…I honestly couldn’t tell you who I think will win.
This won’t be as detailed or long as the things I said for Machida. But I think first, Shogun needs to assume Machida will fix his footwork mistake and circle to the correct side. If Machida doesn’t fix that, Shogun has shown he has the tools to beat Lyoto at kicking range. If his corner hadn’t told him he was winning so often, Shogun probably would’ve won in more dominant fashion at UFC 104, so it’s plausible to think a more aggressive Shogun against a Machida with the very same gameplan and flaws might win in dominating fashion, or even win by stoppage.
Assuming Machida circles to his own right side, I think Shogun should try to work knees and the clinch more. In particular, he should see if he can get Machida to react to kick feints with attempted counters (obviously Machida’s going to work on countering leg and body kicks) and already have a punch or knee on the way.
Machida circling to his right also may make a single-leg on that side easier to grab, since he’ll be moving closer to Shogun’s lead hand. If so, Machida countered all of Shogun’s takedown attempts in the first fight (except, briefly, for one in the first round), but didn’t punish Shogun for them. Rua might be able to put Machida on the ground, or at least fake a shot to open up body, leg or head kicks. Shogun should use his gameplan for 104 as a blueprint, but assume Machida has prepared for the things he did last time and mix in feints so he can counter. Adding in the threat of a serious takedown attempt, whether or not it actually works, is a good idea to keep Machida off balance.
Essentially, I think he’ll want to keep the fight either at kicking range or go for the plum clinch while standing. Machida’s best and most reliable (lunging knees aside) weapon is his straight left hand, and Shogun’s boxing has never been the most technical. Despite him showing defensive improvements against Machida this time, I don’t think he wants to hang out in punching range.
Shogun’s gameplan should be to win the kicking battle in order to control the distance. Machida having felt his power might help get a reaction to kick feints, and that will be invaluable in landing punches and knees. Getting the fight to the ground would be good too, but Machida’s takedown defense is exceptional, so that’ll probably be either a plan B, or something to try in order to keep Lyoto from getting too comfortable countering.
In short: use the kicks to set up devastating knees and punches to the head like last time by above all avoiding predictability. Shogun’s shown he has the tools to win (though with Lyoto making a serious error in footwork), so he needs to trust that and mix up his technique to keep Machida from figuring him out.
by gzl5000 on Oct 27, 2009 3:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One more point, I think the fight will really take place and be decided in the same way as this one: mostly at kicking range, and pretty much always when Shogun attacks and Machida tries to counter.
Machida’s whole offensive style is based on countering, he’s too limited in initiating the attack to pose much of a danger (to Shogun at least), because he seems to have him figured out offensively. Everything Machida initiates, unless it’s a lunging knee, is either a lead with the left side (foot or hand) or a setup for the left side. The amount of weight he puts on his front (right) leg while leaning back means that any strike with the right hand or foot without a subsequent step forward or change of stance lacks power and can be safely countered. Obviously, this applies only to southpaw, Machida could make things interesting by switching stances often.
by gzl5000 on Oct 27, 2009 5:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think they need to do alot more of this:

If you saw that on the discovery channel you’d think they’re preparing to mate.
by mmalogic on Oct 27, 2009 3:10 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Shogun's aggressive leg hopping is intended
to excite his mate and prepare her to be receptive for his barrage of thrusting kicks to the body.
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by Kid Nate on Oct 27, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
every time he does that Machida looks like he is ready to leap backwards
by ryanwk628 on Oct 27, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Looks like it got Machida excited for something else.
by mmalogic on Oct 27, 2009 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"You complete me..."
(sorry Lyoto! I had to do it)
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Oct 28, 2009 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly, I am thinking Shogun wins the rematch. I think a big part about Machida is people are so surprised by what he does, and then it’s over. Shogun knows his speed now and his tricks. I also think the threat of leg kicks is going to open things up for him elsewhere.
Here’s something I’ve been thinking, and this may be way off: what if Lyoto Machida is like the Hideo Nomo of the UFC? A (much longer) period of dominance where he flusters even the greatest of his peers, but once he’s figured out he becomes completely human?
I’ve heard lots of people say leg kicks are the only way to beat Machida. No. They’re the first way to beat Machida.
by Michael Rome on Oct 27, 2009 3:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That’s certainly possible, and it’s been proposed before. I think the big test will be how he responds to Shogun in the rematch. I believe Machida will show an ability to adapt, whether or not he beats Shogun. Don’t forget he also has, besides his father and brother as coaches, the advice and training help of Anderson Silva more or less when he wants it.
by gzl5000 on Oct 27, 2009 4:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not even the first way
In retrospect the “wrestle and make a fight out of it” that was so mocked earlier was aiming towards the same goal of taking away Machida’s greatest advantage. I think it’s just the case that Machida’s demonstrated a greater takedown defense, or when he was taken down (has anyone actually taken him down from a shoot?) a good enough ground game to avoid being subbed (minus the sloppy GNP that led to the infamous Tito triangle) and return to standing, whereas he hasn’t fought a guy who would come at him like this.
Could be that Shogun may be a singular case as well.
by Chortles on Oct 27, 2009 4:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it does turn out that way though, Hideo Nomo is a great analogy for it.
by gzl5000 on Oct 27, 2009 4:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great post
im sure you studied this fight a lot, im not trying to get another debate started but i really would be intrested to know how you scored the fight.
by xbuckeyex05 on Oct 27, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought Shogun won. Round 1, in my opinion, was definitely the closest. I’d score it for Machida, but could just as easily see it 10-10. Round 2 I gave to Shogun. I thought round 3 was Machida’s best of the night, his round. 4 and 5 belonged to Shogun easily, in my opinion. I’m surprised to see people giving round 2 to Machida, I didn’t think it was that close.
I thought it was one of the best fights of the year so far. I didn’t agree with the decision, but it wasn’t a robbery either.
by gzl5000 on Oct 27, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought about this too. 1 thing come to mind.
Shogun is the only guy in LHW that can land leg kicks this powerful on Machida with any kind of regularity. Against any other dude (Forrest, Jardine, etc) they’re either going to whiff a whole lot or they’ll eat the left before the kick get’s close to landing, sabotaging it from any power or effect. Even Shogun’s kicks were very often met with a well timed left.
by Dooda on Oct 27, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
For anyone else, it’s going to depend on how they deal with that counter left; Shogun had clearly trained a method (cover up the head), that would turn out to be effective, until it would be natural enough to consistently happen as needed. Will anyone else from this LHW “generation”? (Whereas in contrast I can imagine someone like Jon “Bones” Jones doing so.)
by Chortles on Oct 27, 2009 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Machida will be back
I think the overhype of Machida has become an underrate.
Shogun has offered a blueprint to beat him but I highly doubt there are many people who could pull off the same gameplan. Brandon Vera at his best is the only person at LHW who I think could pull off the same fight that Shogun had.
Machida will adapt as all great champions do. GSP has had two big defeats during his rise and I think both defeats were good for him. Machida will treat this fight as a defeat and come back stronger.
by rainmaker6 on Oct 27, 2009 8:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This is a good point… I dont see any other Light HW with the reflexes, speed and kicking technique to replicate this with success. Anderson could do it but that’s a non-starter.
by mmalogic on Oct 27, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fantastic post
Great breakdown. I also think Machida has more room for improvement than Shogun in the rematch, so I’m gotta go with him for the win.
by BNeL21 on Oct 27, 2009 12:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Incredible Post
Rec’d to high heaven. This is what I come here to read.
I think Machida wins in a rematch, mainly due to Shogun looking like he was at his best, and Machida not so. I don’t see how Shogun can fight a better fight than that, and I think Lyoto can improve by changing some basic things like the circling you mentioned.
Anyone know why Lyoto was so flustered when their names were being announced in the cage? As soon as I saw that I was worried for his much vaunted mental game. Seems to me, given the principles of his Karate, that being mentally off is more of a hinderance than a niggling injury.
Can not wait for the next installment.
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Oct 27, 2009 1:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think it was something to do with his glove, he kept messing with it.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Oct 27, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone know why Lyoto was so flustered when their names were being announced in the cage? As soon as I saw that I was worried for his much vaunted mental game. Seems to me, given the principles of his Karate, that being mentally off is more of a hinderance than a niggling injury.
This. I thought it was some sort of disturbance in his corner when I saw it, as he seemed really upset. (I’d actually believe “sabotage” before I’d believe “the fix is in” re: the decision. :P)
by Chortles on Oct 28, 2009 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i worry machida will revert to the wholly vaunted “elusive” style of yesteryear…..but will then likely lose by decision.
Gatti. Dekkers. Pele. Aoki. Kang. Vanderlei.
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by theworldsoldestsport on Oct 27, 2009 11:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This was elusive Lyoto…he never really changed other than getting a S&C coach.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Oct 28, 2009 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good god, do this more often.
It’s like a Judo Chop on steroids.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Oct 29, 2009 3:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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