had shogun

*I don’t speak Korean

For there to be a "robbery" it would have to be something clear as day, like Hamill vs. Bisping

Poor example since Bisping clearly won that fight.

Exactly.

I don’t buy that Machida was winning rounds with what he was doing. Shogun was doing exactly what he was doing in rounds four and five in rounds one and two. Just that the judges realised that body kicks and leg kicks were meaning more than Machida’s occasional connection with Shogun’s head that didn’t even phase him.

No they didn’t. They boo’d everything on the ground (not involving Cain and Rivera), any time two fighters weren’t striking, and the judo clinch game. I literally heard “Machida runs like he always does” and “Stop running like a bitch homey” about 45 times during the fight. They were going to cheer for whatever fighter pushed the pace and was the most impressive during the rounds closest to the end of the fight. In this case Shogun was the aggressor and won rounds 4-5 hence the vocal boos from the upper deck seats in the arena.

Also as a side point they do provide the option to have the audio from the broadcast during the fight for an extra five dollars so while I dont believe that affected their decision making process of the vast majority of spectators there were definitely fans in attendance listening to the fight audio.

I guess I can kinda see where the judges might have sided with Machida early on in the first three rounds because of the fact that he was stuffing Shogun’s takedown attempts. However, Shogun was clearly pressing the action and was working nice knees from the body lock. It’s all a matter of what you prefer as a judge. Do you prefer Machida dictating the fight staying standing by stuffing takedowns? Or, do you prefer Shogun dictating tempo and controlling the body lock? Everything else was even in the first two rounds. The stand-up was pretty even. It’s all a matter of what you prefer.

What I think is interesting is how much outrage there is about the decision but upon rewatching it seems like there isn’t a consensus over which rounds went to which fighter except for the 5th belonging to Shogun. If this was actually a robbery the people complaining would all be complaining about the same rounds and be able to come to a consensus over which rounds were clearly won by Shogun (especially in an echo chamber environment like this).

Well shit, let’s just let computers judge the fights from now on then.

My Super Nintendo had it for Rua too.

I had round four to Shogun but the first three rounds to Machida. Flybynite in his analysis above thought it was 50-45 the first time he watched the fight (for Shogun) then on his reviewing he had round 4 to Machida and the fight as a draw. There are just too many people with too many different interpretations of this fight to justify the outrage and indignation a lot of posters have to Machida winning this fight.

As far as stuffing the takedown to me that goes towards dictating where the fight takes place. Shogun attempted to take it to the ground and Machida kept the fight standing.

This pretty much sums up my opinion:

IN addition to the shogun friendly commentary you have the fact that shogun was more consistently the agressor AND the fact that Lyoto fadded in round 4 and 5. Those factors generated a tsunami of support for shogun. Personally, I think Lyoto edged it out in rounds 1-3, but I know it was close enough for there to be other credible opinions

Great post

If you dont think you were affected thats fine its very possible that you were able to remain completely impartial, however, you should understand that would make you an outlier. People’s perceptions and memories of an event or situation are extremely susceptible to the power of suggestion on a subconscious level.

Advertising is a billion dollar industry focused on altering consumer behavior and much of it is done on a subconscious level.

I bet you any amount of money that if I were to take three groups of people and have them watch this fight where one group gets the standard audio, one group gets only the sounds of the fight itself, and one group gets new audio that focused on the strikes Machida landed that you would have three very different interpretations of the fight. Thats just the way the human mind works.

actually lots of the play by play writers do hear the PPV commentary and often reference in the commentary. ie.. "rogan just said that there is a fundamental flaw in Paulo thiago’s stand up " I’m not surprised the fans present thought shogun won for the reasons I mentioned above. The fact that most of the writers and a lot of fans didn’t give Machida a round is what strikes me as most unusual. No one at my house was at all confident of the outcome before it was announced althuogh most seemed to think Shogun was more likely to get the nod. I think most ppl who watch it again with the sound off can see that it is ENTIRELY within the realm of reason to give machida the 1st 3 rounds.

The same fans that were yelling “Machida runs like a bitch..quit running like a bitch homey” 30 seconds into the fight? They might have been booing but it was not 13 thousand of them and thats not the group you want to have agreeing with you on judging one of the most technical and unique standup fights we have seen in the UFC.

Joe is pretty famous for playing favorites and getting completely carried away in his commentary. See every Chuck Liddell fight ever for evidence.

Its not an insult its just human nature. Here is a very simplistic discussion on the phenomenon:

http://www.truthpizza.org/logic/suggestn.htm

I want Joe Rogan to refrain from saying "leg kick" for at least 3 months

He shouldn’t mention it when someone does it?

LEG KICK TO THE BODY

Well, to be fair a leg kick to the body does hurt worse than an arm kick to the body. :)

Well, I’m sure Rogan was legitmately surprised how well Shogun did against Machida, but then it got to a point where Rogan just completely ignored anything Machida did, particularly when blocking and countering.

I, and the other folks watching the fight with me, found Rogan’s commentary to be particularly grating during the main event.

Thats totally valid. Did you also think they was no possible way Machida could have won the fight and that it was the “BIGGEST ROBBERY EVA!!!!”?

Everytime Rua kicked Lyotos ribs inside out, or turned his legs into chop meat, Lyoto managed to get a jab in. I think people are highly over valuing those jabs.

Seriously? In that flurry Rua landed one good punch which made Machida clinch. Lyoto started the whole exchange off with a straight punch that stumbled Shogun into the cage and then landed a body kick. Everything else was dodged or just plain missed on both sides.