UFC 104 Post Fight Analysis - Random Thoughts
by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 25, 2009 11:20 AM EDT
in News
193 comments
- Cain Velasquez has a lot of things going for him but big power in his hands are not among them. In the process of controlling Ben Rothwell for the entire fight and landing roughly four thousand punches to Ben's head Cain never seemed to be close to knocking him out. When the ref jumped in to save Rothwell from any further punishment Ben was completely clear eyed. Add this to the Cheick Kongo fight where Cain landed at will much of the fight without getting a stoppage, the Denis Stojnic fight which took Cain far too long to finish, and the Jake O'Brien fight where O'Brien appeared to not be overly hurt despite getting pounded on in a crucifix and I think we can officially question how much power is really in those hands. Still, a smothering wrestling game and deep gas tank are going to carry Cain pretty far.
- Stefan Struve is going to be really good. The kid is almost seven feet tall with seven triangle choke victories (14 submissions overall). He is adding muscle to his huge frame and is finally starting to look like he can use his height effectively in the striking game. If he can fully round out his striking game and make it so that the decision for his opponents is to stand up and get picked apart by a guy they can't get close to, come inside and eat knees that he can throw to the head with ease or go to the ground where his length provides a host of submission opportunities...that's just scary. Dos Santos wrecked him in their fight, but that was a hell of a draw for his first fight under the bright lights of the UFC for a 21 year old.
- Pat Barry was a pleasure to watch. The first round was going so hard against him as Antoni Hardonk was wearing out his legs with his trademark leg kicks and swelling up Pat's eye with punches. Then Pat came out in the second round, got his timing and started finding a home for hard punches en route to the knockout of the night. Barry's emotion in the post-fight interview was really great to see.
- A Team Quest fighter used a smart and effective gameplan. How about Chael Sonnen using solid combination striking that worked off of leg kicks and then adding in point scoring takedowns? In the end I don't think Sonnen was so much underrated as Okami was overrated. That being said, it was really nice to see Sonnen fight hard but smart. Usually it's one or the other.
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"landing roughly four thousand punches to Ben's head" LOL
sweet article, gotta agree about cains lack of power. i wonder cud the dude cut to 205?? long shot probably, but i mean if he faces lesnar or carwin can he out wrestle them?? i really really doubt it, and if he cant put them away…. i see him getting mauled! he’ll end up being a gatekeeper or something….
"I had to fight all my life to survive. They were all against me... but I beat the bastards and left them in the ditch." ~ Ty Cobb
by RearNakedPoke on Oct 25, 2009 10:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No chance
No way is he going to beat Carwin or Lesnar.
Rothwell (admittedly) has bad takedown defense. He said on the countdown show something to the effect of “He’ll probably get me down, but then I’ll get back and and keep swinging” – which is exactly what he did, except he kept getting taken down.
Carwin and Lesnar are way too big and both have wrestling bases that would prevent that. And Cain doesn’t have the power to phase either guy with strikes, either.
"Why am I here? Why does my mind have wings? Why do blue midgets hit me with fish?!" - The Tick
by mythbuster on Oct 25, 2009 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Too bad none of that matters because the entire sport and history of mma is forever ruined with the Machida-Shogun decision..
by Reaser16 on Oct 25, 2009 10:25 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
shoguns record is anyway
man id be pissed to notch up a loss that wasnt legit in most peoples eyes…on top of that machida keeps his undefeated status when he got a leg kicking clinic. i despair.
"I had to fight all my life to survive. They were all against me... but I beat the bastards and left them in the ditch." ~ Ty Cobb
by RearNakedPoke on Oct 25, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t you think that’s a little harsh? Was the sport ruined when GSP greased? When Cro-Cop pocked Mustafa’s eyes? Shogun played it cautious and payed for it.
Forward Ever, Backward Never...
by Tony NJ on Oct 25, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sarcasm meter is off the charts
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Robert Downey Sr. on Oct 25, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
far too many people above missing it…
"I want to tell me what you see, let's go ahead and see by the fight what you saw, in the ring"
by crinow on Oct 25, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah this Cain fight certainly confirmed that problem… During the Kongo fight I gave him a pass because he was blasted a few times that would have put most to sleep.
I hope cain doesn’t focus on trying to be that “one punch ko artist” and instead focuses and molds his game to wearing people down (ala couture, GSP) with his biggest strengths (wrestling and cardio).
I don’t think he can out wrestle carwin and lesnar enough to protect himself from the big shots and when you’re not packing heat and have no threat on the feet you’re in trouble.
He needs to fight Nog next.
by mmalogic on Oct 25, 2009 10:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking Dos Santos. Nogueira I’d rather see just be given the next title shot. Then use Cain/JdS as an eliminator of sorts to determine that “next guy in line” plus JdS represents a different challenge. Velasquez has been beating up on strikers with limited to no ground game. dos Santos has big power in his punches while also having much more of a ground game than a guy like Kongo or Rothwell.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 25, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that's a bad matchup for Dos Santos..
Cain would control avoid subs and control Junior for 3 rounds or until the ref stops it..
A fight against Nog is the one i want to see, but I agree, i want Nog to get his title shot first, so I say give him, Gonzaga instead.. Dangerous on his feet, great jits when he takes him down.. I think he’d put Cain to the test.
by Anton Tabuena on Oct 25, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
Gonzaga was the other guy I was thinking.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 25, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the perfect fight for gonzaga's chin?
by amadeus on Oct 25, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bad fight for Cain’s chin.
I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on Oct 25, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dos Santos would be a great test but something tells me the brass (if they can help it) will not be giving Big Nog the next shot without winning another tough fight . Not only because he was crushed by Frank Mir less than 2 fights ago but nobody wants soares controlling 3 champs or the guy who lost to Fedor 2 times being the UFC champ.
Anderson was saying Lyoto shouldnt have accepted the match with Shogun (before the fight)… what kind of bullshit is that? Not only is he bitching about his opponents but now he has to bitch about other guys.
by mmalogic on Oct 25, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
nobody wants soares controlling 3 champs
Very interesting point. Rec’d.
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
by Day Man on Oct 25, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So it’s OK for the UFC to play fight politics with the titles, but not Anderson Silva?
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on Oct 25, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
no, it’s not ok… but you seem to be comparing apples and oranges.
If Big Nog wins another tough fight and he still doesnt get a title shot then that’s placing fight politics ahead of the sport.
Right now he’s one of 2 fighters (3 if dos santos wins) who have cases to fight for the title.
Nog already had a shot and got beat up by Mir so maybe Dos santos and Cain have a better case?
remember Arlovski was ranked #2 (higher than Big Nog) by the internet idiots for beating ben rothwell werdum and jake obrien. Cain is undefeated, murdered rothwell, crushed jake obrien and beat Kongo. Dos Santos is undefeated, decapitated werdum and made crocop quit and now has a fight with Gonzaga.
.
Nog turned down the Gonzaga fight but if he beats someone of that caliber or better then he deserves another shot and he will most definitely get it.
If he doesn’t then your comparison is valid.
Im just pointing out reality as I don’t see Zuffa giving him preference over the other 2 especially since it’s not in the sports or Zuffa’s particular interest over the other possible scenarios.
by mmalogic on Oct 25, 2009 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dos Santos isn't undefeated
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Robert Downey Sr. on Oct 25, 2009 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you’re right typed it in twice by mistake.
by mmalogic on Oct 25, 2009 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no probs amigo
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Robert Downey Sr. on Oct 25, 2009 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd prefer Cain vs. Gonzaga.
Cain was impressive again, but I think Nog has a decent chance to beat Carwin or Lesnar, whereas Cain still could use some more seasoning. He looked awesome last night though, and made me look stupid for thinking Rothwell could handle him.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 25, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d like to see Cain vs Mir.
Mir’s got the ability off the back to test out Cain’s sub defense plus he’s got a questionable enough chin that if Cain can’t put him away we can definitively say he doesn’t have major KO power.
by rabrown on Oct 25, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we can definitely say he has no KO power at the elite level.
Cain needs to master what GSP has mastered: “WEAR AND TEAR”. Cain’s got to maximize the use of his 2 biggest attributes: cardio and wrestling.
He also needs to add a some fight ending threats and I think It will be more likely for him to add really good submissions to his arsenal than the likelihood of becoming a “KO striker”.
by mmalogic on Oct 25, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, he’s obviously not dropping anyone with one punch anytime soon. Having said that, his recent opponents are all seriously tough and better strikers than Velasquez have taken longer or failed altogether to stop them. He won against O’Brien and Rothwell quicker than Arlovski did while Cro Cop and Hardonk weren’t able to do much against Kongo.
I like the idea of a Mir fight because Mir hasn’t displayed the chin that any of Cain’s recent opponents have and it can prove if Cain has any KO power at all, plus it gives him his first test against a high-level grappler.
by rabrown on Oct 25, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s a good suggestion. Good stylistic matchup – would be hugely entertaining.
by MMAEruption on Oct 25, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I liked Barry before last night, but am now a major fan. Good performance and his emotional reaction really wonme over.
by Lynchman on Oct 25, 2009 10:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
did he deserve fotn tho??
kind off of point, but man talk about shogun being robbed twice in the one night…
"I had to fight all my life to survive. They were all against me... but I beat the bastards and left them in the ditch." ~ Ty Cobb
by RearNakedPoke on Oct 25, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Was Machida/Shogun the best fight? Shogun did a great job, and will almost certainly get a fat bonus because of it, but I did not think it was the best. Great job by Shogun, but not great fight.
by Lynchman on Oct 25, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah..
FotN doesn’t usually go to a fight where both Dana and fans talk about how both guys didn’t “go for it” at times during the contest. Good fight, don’t get me wrong…but I don’t think that fight really would have been FotN
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 25, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it aint all about finishes for me
i was on the edge of my seat for the 5 rounds, i thought a 5 round strategic battle was far more entertaining a fight but hey i guess im alone on this one. im sure, as mmalogic mentioned that he got some financial satisfaction. he better have!!!!!
"I had to fight all my life to survive. They were all against me... but I beat the bastards and left them in the ditch." ~ Ty Cobb
by RearNakedPoke on Oct 25, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Yes, time flies. And where did it leave you? Old too soon...smart too late. - Mike Tyson
by lovingmma25 on Oct 25, 2009 12:49 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
on second thought
you would normally give a fotn performance to a 3 or five rounder, but the action was way more there in the barry/ hardonk fight. i don’t think Rumble should be given a KO of the night, his weight miss was disgraceful
by amadeus on Oct 25, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i hope so! if there's any justice...
"I had to fight all my life to survive. They were all against me... but I beat the bastards and left them in the ditch." ~ Ty Cobb
by RearNakedPoke on Oct 25, 2009 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah that’s good to hear. You know Dana was impressed as hell with him.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 25, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
where did you hear that?
I can’t find it anywhere
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 25, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude, take that sig off.
SHOGUN SLAYED THE DRAGON!!!
SHOGUN GOT ROBBED FROM HIS LHW TITLE!!!
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Oct 25, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
man, I wish I could, but I made a bet with ufc4 :’(
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 25, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s really making you go through with it even though we know Machida lost? Heh, yeah I think he’s one of the Machida lovers so that figures.
Iiowon
weo
Leland
ufc4
The list goes on. They didn’t give Shogun a chance becuase of Lyotos cool trips. Whatever, I’m bitter, Shogun got robbed.
SHOGUN SLAYED THE DRAGON!!!
SHOGUN GOT ROBBED FROM HIS LHW TITLE!!!
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Oct 25, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, Machida lost and Shogun got robbed, and the majority of the MMA community wasn’t giving him any chances and now some can’t take the fact and see that Shogun really won that fight (even with every single MMA source stating otherwise). But ufc4 is not really making me go with this, I haven’t really seen him around here since the decision, I’m just using the signature because a bet is a bet, the official score is Rua lost (even though we all know he won), so I need to keep my word and keep the sig :P
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 25, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nice to see a man of his word
the machida excuse train has left the station.
To me, any talk of Machida having legitimately won last night, only demonstrates an extreme bias in his favor (weo, pbrady, fagan etc..)
Machida is a GREAT fighter, but Shogun was better than him last night. He may never be better than Machida again on the same night, so it is a SHAME that they took this away from him.
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
by MMArazorback on Oct 25, 2009 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks!
and Shogun wins the rematch :P
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 25, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We will find out in a few months my friend. =D
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Oct 25, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
for sure
It’s going to be fireworks, Shogun will try to finish the fight in the later rounds I think, so we could see a KO coming from either side (but I say Shogun haha).
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 25, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Decision aside and all, I’m thrilled with Shogun.
Keep firing Assholes!
Never trust a man with no shirt on.
by Ubernoober on Oct 25, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm happy on the fact that
at least he gained some over due respect with this fight alone
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 25, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I still say Machida =D
BTW, respect for keeping your word, I think that is one of the most important things anyone can do in their life.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Oct 25, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks brother :P
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 25, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But on the bright side
you’re happy no matter what, the title stayed in Brasil right??? If Shogun wins the rematch (I hope not), then Silva can fight him and guess what? The title stays in Brasil!!!
Wait a sec…maybe this IS a conspiracy…….. ;-)
by soadtrails on Oct 25, 2009 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha, I’m happy the title remains in Brasil (it was going to stay in Brasil regardless and will be here to stay with the next title contention as well since this will be a rematch), I just have a bad taste in my mouth because I felt that decision was really sour.
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 25, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
According to your sig line...
I just have a bad taste in my mouth because I felt that decision was really sour.
That’s not the only reason.
"I would approve signing a pitcher that ate kitten tacos if he won 20 games a year." -BPinOK
by duck on Oct 25, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice sig :)
I was at a halloween party til 3 AM last night (posted a little on my phone during the fights but not too much) and then I was out running around with the family all day today (after I finally got up at 11:30) so that’s why I haven’t been around much. Glad to see you kept your word, although I will point out that you were the one who said this:
Btw, the bet is on the official result, no matter if there are discrepancies such as early stoppages nor bad judging!
So after that you were kinda stuck. I will give Shogun his props, he put on a helluva performance and he is definitely back in top form after a tough couple of years trying to come back from his knee surgeries. Did he win the fight? I think it was a draw but I don’t know if we’ll ever see that in a title fight again. Either way he definitely earned a rematch and hopefully their next fight is a bit more decisive no matter which way it goes.
by ufc4 on Oct 26, 2009 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m just glad people are giving him his dues now, it has been long overdue :P
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 26, 2009 4:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have been one of the people defending him post knee surgery. I know first hand how difficult that is and I always explained how big an affect they likely had on his fight with Forrest (unreal heart to fight with the torn ACL) and Coleman (its very difficult to maintain cardio shape when recovering).
I think after watching his performance last night he should be favored over every fighter in the world at 205 not currently holding a title belt. (I still think Machida and Spider should be favored over him but the +400 and greater odds were crazy).
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
by Day Man on Oct 26, 2009 4:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the thing about the Forrest fight, even though he got chocked out, he still put up a fight with the torn ACL! Forrest didn’t dominate Shogun.
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 26, 2009 4:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you put me on the list just cause im not pissy and bickering and whining like everyone has been doing lately?
nice.
by Anton Tabuena on Oct 25, 2009 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sorry, I dont know if its posted anywhere maybe it will be in a few days… but I wanted to ask you a question.
I can tell you’re brazilian… when you picked shogun to win why did you pick him and how did you come up with that conclusion?
by mmalogic on Oct 25, 2009 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know his game, he (in my mind) is the best LHW in the world, he just been held back by injuries and ring rust, I knew we were going to see the real shogun this past Saturday and I knew he was going to be a real threat to Machida because of it (which most people didn’t). He’s back, and it ain’t over yet, rematch should be soon :P
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 26, 2009 4:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I had a feeling Sonnen would beat Okami, given Okami’s relative inactivity as of late and Sonnen’s performance against Miller. Even I can get one right now and then. I was kind of down on Sonnen until the Miller fight, but I think he’s turned it around. His impressive wrestling and improved, swarming striking should allow him to make a few waves at 185.
by Cannon Jacques on Oct 25, 2009 10:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah, i really did not expect him to do well against okami, but since the Miller fight, he’s looking like a really improved fighter.. I am really impressed.
by Anton Tabuena on Oct 25, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm on the list of sonnen supporters since the beginning
I think that with the exception of the maia fight, where he got caught in a ridiculous transition that not a single person in the world could’ve trained him for, he’s looked great ever since losing to filho the first time. even in his fight against brian baker in the wec that he was supposed to lose, he crushed the dude
by amadeus on Oct 25, 2009 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was rooting for Chael for the longest time, though I honestly picked against him here cause it was Okami..
He looked so so in his past fights, but i’ve always liked the guy.. He’s really changed and mixed things up especially since the Miller fight.
by Anton Tabuena on Oct 25, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s had fights where he showcased good boxing before, but he looked much faster than I’ve ever seen him, and I never imagined that Okami would get dominated in the clinch like that. Really impressive…
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 25, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sonnen was supposed to lose to Baker? What?
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on Oct 25, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about Joe Stevenson 2.0?
I think the Greg Jackson version of Joe Daddy is going to be almost a mini-Rashad. Stevenson just baffled Fisher out there wtih his hands, his takedowns, his submission attempts I got the feeling The King just had no handle on what Stevenson was doing and when he was going to do it.
I would like to see Stevenson fight Sherk next, or maybe Gray Maynard if he gets bast Diaz.
by mason_beer on Oct 25, 2009 11:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Rashad doesn't wrestle. haha. :P
by Anton Tabuena on Oct 25, 2009 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah certainly not anymore
but stevenson has the perfect build, chin, and gameplan to be a top five fighter at 155. With the right mental coaching, i think he could be a force. i’m inclined to believe that he got in those bad positions against bj and kenny because he believed he wasn’t as good of a fighter against those guys… had he tried to take sanchez down, he probably could’ve won that fight as well
by amadeus on Oct 25, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have been very impressed by Joe Daddy in his last two fights
One thing that me and my friends noticed besides Joe following a gameplan to a ‘t’ and showing improved footwork is that he is just having fun out there. Fighting doesn’t look like ‘just a job’ to him or a ‘task,’ and it just seems like that he wants to be there and is comfortable in the Octagon (I know, I’m kind of reaching here, but that’s what I personally see).
by chrisbboy82 on Oct 25, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with everything you said except for the first comment about Cain’s power. I feel his striking/GnP/power were vastly improved compared to any of his fights thus far. In defense of my comments i would point to the Rothwell/Arlovski fight. Arlovski was picking him apart with big shots and the knee and none those knocked him out. When he did finally go down, i think it was more from exhaustion. I say all this to say that i can’t think of anyone that could knock out Rothwell after seeing the punishment he took in that fight and definitely the Velasquez fight. I think Velasquez knocks out or GnP his next opponent into unconciousness….. Unless it’s Lesnar. :)
by SteveXtreme on Oct 25, 2009 11:10 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I think Cain needs to improve his accuracy
To be fair, he hasn’t caught this guys on the sweet spot, i didn’t get to see the kongo fight but i watched last night and most’ve his punches were landing in areas that would hurt rothwell a good amount but not KO a really tough guy…
He also may need to fill out a la Gonzaga when he had a few fights in the UFC.. he started working serious with kettlebells and beefing up… Cain looks a little soft, he may want to fill out to 250 or so, 13 lbs at his age wouldn’t be a problem
by amadeus on Oct 25, 2009 11:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Staff prediction results
Luke: 8-3
Nate: 7-4
Brent: 9-2
Mike R: 8-3
Nick: 5-6
Eugene: 10-1
Leland: 7-4
Mike F: 6-5
I think my math was right on those.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 25, 2009 11:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I was 7-4 on my picks..
I feel stupid changing my Barry pick on the last minute and picking a huge underdog in Rothwell..
And on a slightly unrelated note,
UFC 104 had a live gate of $1.9 million and a total attendance of 16,000. Not bad for a card people were sleeping on.
by Anton Tabuena on Oct 25, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not bad for a cardpeople were sleeping onthat was a bust.
fixed
by ufc4 on Oct 26, 2009 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Woot.
Alla som inte dansar är våldtäktsmän.
by Eugene Schelfaut on Oct 25, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
10-1, pretty ridiculous for an mma card
by amadeus on Oct 25, 2009 11:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Every donk has his day.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on Oct 25, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
rec’d
Thats my favourite poker saying while at the table…
by Beren on Oct 26, 2009 3:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Struve is talented, but will always be susceptible to the the heavy hitters and wrestlers of the division. It’s not likely he can just jab or strike his way to victories unless he adds serious speed and power. Guys like Dos Santos will still melt him with one shot, and the wrestlers will just bull-rush him when he’s off balance. Do you actually expect him to sub the elite fighters (not Chase Gormley)? Without taking a beating first? As Rogan said, Gormley was playing footsies instead of going after Struve’s chin.
Struve is interesting of course, but where are the dominating submission fighters in MMA? Maia got predictably obliterated by Marquardt and may never have gotten there vs Nate anyway. Probably a better comparison (because of the combination of skills/huge reach) is Miguel Torres – who is a far better striker than Struve. Mizugaki forced him into a purely standup fight and Bowles probably would/could have as well. That’s your problem when you are a striker/submission fighter, your opponent typically chooses where he wants to fight you. And if you’re constantly fighting where your opponent wants you, you’re not going to put up big win streaks vs. good competition.
by bigweeze on Oct 25, 2009 11:18 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
he's young..
give him some time and he’ll develop more, especially if he grows more into his huge frame..
give him Kimbo or someone at that level.
by Anton Tabuena on Oct 25, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree he needs seasoning. I just disagree that he’ll be really good in future. He in all likelyhood won’t ever be as good as Gonzaga. Submissions are sexy but upper level fighters generally do not get subbed (unless they are beaten up first). I don’t think he’ll ever have much success against the top 10 but there’s no sense in putting him in with anything near that at this age..
by bigweeze on Oct 25, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dominant submission fighters go only so far in the UFC… but they seem to dominate everywhere else for some reason.
by mmalogic on Oct 25, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two thing help submission artists outside the UFC: no cage so they can’t be pinned against the mesh, limiting their options to half the body; no elbows, forcing opponents who are mounted to throw punches, making it easier to grab a limb.
by nottheface on Oct 25, 2009 3:22 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I can't help but think Dana is giddy right now
The controversy is good for business. The money’s always in the rematch…
by cyph on Oct 25, 2009 11:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It's not all about business
He’s still a fan, and he looked pretty pissed off after that fight
by Shaun32887 on Oct 25, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
1. Now that Machida is the champion, and Okami lost to Chael, who will be the next fighter that people think Zuffa has a conspiracy against?
2. Now that Machida suffered a de facto defeat at the hands of Shogun, will all the people who said they weren’t interested in this card because Shogun has no way to win, admit that Joe Silva and Dana White know more about where their fighters are at and are better at matchmaking that they are?
3. Now that Wagney Fabiano has lost and Machida has looked very beatable, will people wait until teammates fighting/not fighting teammates becomes an actual issue before they start their teeth gnashing?
4. How do you rank Shogun after this fight? #2?
by Jahbulon on Oct 25, 2009 11:51 AM EDT reply actions 11 recs
Rec…
I rank shogun #1 but even if he’s #2 it will be solved in the rematch.
by mmalogic on Oct 25, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
shogun should be number 2 in my opinion..
but those with ranking algorithms, and those who only base the ranks on a fighter’s record (the one Leland is in) wont rank him that way because a loss is a loss..
by Anton Tabuena on Oct 25, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shogun is #1 LHW in the world.
SHOGUN SLAYED THE DRAGON!!!
SHOGUN GOT ROBBED FROM HIS LHW TITLE!!!
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Oct 25, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
agreed!
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
by MMArazorback on Oct 25, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
1 The UFC rigged the scorecards to give Sonnen the win cause they want to protect their cash cow Anderson Silva.
2 Dana and co are idiots and know nothing about matchmaking! They are TUF noobs.\
3 We gotta gnash about something
4 Tied at #1
Keep firing Assholes!
Never trust a man with no shirt on.
by Ubernoober on Oct 25, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Excellent. And tied at #1.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Oct 25, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i will rec any comment that includes the phrase “teeth gnashing”
by woooburn on Oct 25, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone who ranks Shogun less than #1 is an MMASupremacy.
I dislike Matt Hughes. Shogun beat him like a dirty horse.
by MonkeyCHops on Oct 25, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
It depends on how you want to look at things. To me…rankings have to be based on results. It’s like…if a ref calls a slip a knockdown in a boxing match…the judges HAVE to score it as a knockdown.
If the judges give a guy a win in a fight…I have to consider it a win when I’m doing rankings. Right now I’d have Machida #1, Shogun #2 (even if I thought Shogun won) based on the fact that in the OFFICIAL world he won the fight.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 25, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I rank based on reality only.
I dislike Matt Hughes. Shogun beat him like a dirty horse.
by MonkeyCHops on Oct 25, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
But I have that luxury because I am just a miscellaneous online complaining guy.
I dislike Matt Hughes. Shogun beat him like a dirty horse.
by MonkeyCHops on Oct 25, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
That's fine...
I honestly have no problem if someone said “I’m so sure he won that I think he is #1 in the world”
my personal rankings (hosted at the address C:\BrentMMA\Rakings) are based on the official results and as such I have Machida #1 and Shogun #2 (which is pretty impressive honestly considering that it’s very tough to move up at all when you lose a fight)
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 25, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can’t keep mine my C drive, there is no room. Too much porn.
I dislike Matt Hughes. Shogun beat him like a dirty horse.
by MonkeyCHops on Oct 25, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Reality is that Machida left LA with the W, sir.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on Oct 25, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Fagan is cold as ice!
Giving Shogun his props. I had the fight 48-47 Machida but Shogun put up a monumental performance and I am honored to have seen it in person.
by Day Man on Oct 26, 2009 5:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s not that we thought he won. We KNOW he won.
SHOGUN SLAYED THE DRAGON!!!
SHOGUN GOT ROBBED FROM HIS LHW TITLE!!!
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Oct 25, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And you are wrong.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Oct 25, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha, your overrated idol got owned last night. He cant even man up and say he lost. “The judges gave it to me” Uhh the question was do you think you won, not how you got a gift of a lifetime decision.
SHOGUN SLAYED THE DRAGON!!!
SHOGUN GOT ROBBED FROM HIS LHW TITLE!!!
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Oct 25, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this ^
Machida couldnt even say “i won the fight”! He knew he lost and some of you guys still dont see it? Really?
All he could say through his busted lip was “the three judges agreed that I won the fight.”
I hope everyone gets off his nuts now. He lost and really didnt even lose impressively
People can try to hang onto this Machida Era bullshit all they want to. He got about as lucky as you can get . Shogun proved he is back, and when in top form, he is the #1 LHW in the world.
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
by MMArazorback on Oct 25, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So now Shogun’s nuts are the ones to hug?
by dancingChicken on Oct 25, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
after 95% of the online MMA community gave someone who 2 years ago was #1 or 2 in the world almost NO CHANCE at all to beat Machida… yeah, i think his nuts deserve some love now.
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
by MMArazorback on Oct 25, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought he deserves respect.
The thing with nuts is that they tend to get slippery when something is going wrong. And eventually something will go wrong, so maybe people should let go nuts before it’s too late and give the man respect he deserves.
by dancingChicken on Oct 25, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ew
Can we please stop with the whole “nut hugging” phrase?
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Oct 25, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No. Let’s continue to gross everyone here out with talk like that. Just to give guys like Arum and Mayweather ammo to support their MMA Hate. Nice.
/sarcasm mode
by BNTHIS on Oct 26, 2009 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shogun may not have slain the dragon, but he slew the myth of Machida.
Keep firing Assholes!
Never trust a man with no shirt on.
by Ubernoober on Oct 25, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Maybe he is disappointed as fuck all in his performance. But the reality of the situation is that he won the fight. Machida in his worst performance since the Greco fight beat Shogun even with Shogun using the perfect gameplan. Mad fucking props to Shogun, he found a solution to Machida and stuck to it…however it wasn’t enough.
Just because you disagree with the decision doesn’t give you or anyone else an excuse to act like a dick.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Oct 25, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just because you disagree with the decision doesn’t give you or anyone else an excuse to act like a dick.
Exactly ^^
I was cheering for Machida simply because I like the champs to be good ambassadors, and I think with his suit wearing and English speaking Machida is better right now. That said, I love both fighters and thought Shogun won.
To now call Machida overrated and acting like a dick to his fans is out of order.
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Oct 26, 2009 6:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously this is intended for Fenix not iiowyn
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Oct 26, 2009 6:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Them’s fightin’ words!
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Oct 25, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fighting/not fighting teammates is an actual issue already...
with the mess at ATT.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 25, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just let Swick get killed by GSP already.
Keep firing Assholes!
Never trust a man with no shirt on.
by Ubernoober on Oct 25, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
shut up...
…but yes
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 25, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
4. How do you rank Shogun after this fight? #2?
Depends on how you’re thinking about rankings. Personally, I rank fighters based on results only, so Shogun stays where he is (#5 in my case). But if you’re thinking about rankings as something reflective of some kind of platonic ideal of fighter skill, then yeah, put Shogun wherever you want.
I don’t think it makes sense to move a guy up the rankings based on a loss, though (which is what this will always be on his record, robbery or no robbery).
by JRN on Oct 25, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reminds me of Nick Diaz vs. Gomi
I cant recall, but did Diaz jump in rankings after that NC?
This fight was similar. Machida won on paper, but everyone knows Shogun beat his ass up for almost 25 minutes.
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
by MMArazorback on Oct 25, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, Diaz/Gomi is a case where the result of the fight itself isn’t even open to debate, and only got changed because of a highly controversial policy (testing for weed). In reality, not everyone agrees that Shogun won that fight, but everybody knows Diaz submitted Gomi.
But yeah, I’d imagine Diaz probably jumped into the LW rankings ahead of Gomi for a lot of people.
by JRN on Oct 25, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what if silva knows that he's better than machida
and is allowing him to have the lhw belt?
by amadeus on Oct 25, 2009 12:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
who knows on the first part
but the second part is pretty obvious, they don’t want to be the one who ruins the other’s legacy
by yngjzy on Oct 25, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Glad Shogun was able to show that he’s worthy of all the hype he received…what a joke that decision was, 49-46 imho.
- LHW in the world and as far as I’m concerned the LHW champion until proven otherwise.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
by The_Gaijin on Oct 25, 2009 12:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The fact that Machida still has the belt kinda means he’s the champ, right or wrong.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Oct 25, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not for long...
If they go thru on the promise of an immediate rematch.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
by The_Gaijin on Oct 25, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s the future, not the present. In the present, Machida is champ. In the future, they’ll both be dead, but that’s also not the case now.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Oct 25, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How Keynesian of you.
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Oct 26, 2009 6:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Glad Shogun was able to show that he’s worthy of all the hype he received…what a joke that decision was, 49-46 imho.
Agreed. With all the “Pride stars” falling flat on their asses in the UFC, it’s good when a legitimate star comes around. Despite him being robbed, I look forward to his next match (against Machida or otherwise).
tho he did get choked out by Griffin…
"Why am I here? Why does my mind have wings? Why do blue midgets hit me with fish?!" - The Tick
by mythbuster on Oct 25, 2009 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
# 1
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
by The_Gaijin on Oct 25, 2009 12:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If it’s yellow, let it mellow.
"Why am I here? Why does my mind have wings? Why do blue midgets hit me with fish?!" - The Tick
by mythbuster on Oct 25, 2009 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shogun was one dimensional last night. Machida wasn’t. Did you see the knees Machida was using? Did you see the straight punches to the face for every kick? Machida won. Close, but he won.
Forward Ever, Backward Never...
by Tony NJ on Oct 25, 2009 12:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Keep convincing yourself buddy.
SHOGUN SLAYED THE DRAGON!!!
SHOGUN GOT ROBBED FROM HIS LHW TITLE!!!
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Oct 25, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Take your own advice sir.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Oct 25, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lololololol, dude if you really think Machida won you have problems.
SHOGUN SLAYED THE DRAGON!!!
SHOGUN GOT ROBBED FROM HIS LHW TITLE!!!
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Oct 25, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re a doctor? Respect other people’s point of view.
by dancingChicken on Oct 25, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I get that you're upset...
but you need to take it down a notch.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 25, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I know, that’s my bad. =/
SHOGUN SLAYED THE DRAGON!!!
SHOGUN GOT ROBBED FROM HIS LHW TITLE!!!
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Oct 25, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL – whatever helps you sleep at night.
Shogun put on a clinic last night. I never want to hear about an “invincible” or “unbeatable” fighter again.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
by The_Gaijin on Oct 25, 2009 12:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
What about our lord and Fedor?
Keep firing Assholes!
Never trust a man with no shirt on.
by Ubernoober on Oct 25, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fedor is a machine, he doesn’t count.
SHOGUN SLAYED THE DRAGON!!!
SHOGUN GOT ROBBED FROM HIS LHW TITLE!!!
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Oct 25, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s not invincible. Remember that time one guy was winning the fight for 2 minutes and then got killed. And then that time he got dropped on his head then killed the guy. Or the time he got kicked in the head and then he killed the guy.
Wait, what were we saying?
by Phildo on Oct 25, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Arlovski couldn’t tag Fedor, watch it in slow mo.
CC didn’t land a flush HK.
by Meshuggeth on Oct 25, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fedor only looks like he’s losing to test our faith.
by nottheface on Oct 25, 2009 3:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 4 recs
lol!
Rec’d
"Why am I here? Why does my mind have wings? Why do blue midgets hit me with fish?!" - The Tick
by mythbuster on Oct 25, 2009 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or that Arona fight.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Oct 25, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
denial
A true MMA fan from the great state of Arkansas.
by MMArazorback on Oct 25, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i enjoy a UFC card less and less lately repetitive commentating, bad match-ups, Immediate title shots to celebs, side line #1 contenders, Dana’s mouth full of shit and Fighters getting screwed contract wise and Fight wise…. this is why i never got passionate about boxing ppl just said thats boxing when ppl were robbed so if thats boxing i wont watch it. if state comission or UFC does anything to fix it other then tough luck it could be stacking up the bad things about Boxing quicker then boxing. shit like this can take the momentum that MMA was building up if it keeps happening
Twitter: @silverobot
JTV: SIlverobot
by Silverobot on Oct 25, 2009 12:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
In defense of Virginia
There’s shitty judges everywhere apparently.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
by The_Gaijin on Oct 25, 2009 12:56 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
Hahahahahahaha!
Bash Cain and then give Struve props? What is going on here? lol I guess the thousand punches must be bothering his opponents becuase every single one of them hasn’t had an answer for it. Lets get this clear, Cain was 6-0 before last night fighting Rothwell, a HUGE 265lb guy, with power, with ground game, with takedown D, with tools. He didn’t just beat him he outworked him and made him look like an ameture. Struve, unless he goes to Japan and gets hooked up with Overeem, he isn’t doing anything in the UFC HW div. He beat Gormley, nothing to get excited about. He won’t even get to be a gatekeeper.
SHOGUN SLAYED THE DRAGON!!!
SHOGUN GOT ROBBED FROM HIS LHW TITLE!!!
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Oct 25, 2009 12:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
A) I didn’t “bash” Cain:
In the process of controlling Ben Rothwell for the entire fight and landing roughly four thousand punches to Ben’s head Cain never seemed to be close to knocking him out.
…
Still, a smothering wrestling game and deep gas tank are going to carry Cain pretty far.
Cain is really good at what he does. I just don’t think he has the power in his hands that was originally thought to be a big part of his game.
B) Struve beat a guy who people were saying was giving Dos Santos all he could handle in camp in the standup game and who was supposedly a very good top controlling wrestler.
C) Struve got praise for his potential (as he is 21 and was in the evening’s opener) and Cain was in the co-main event.
D) why do people always read more into what is actually said than is actually there?
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 25, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
D. This is the Internet.
D. MMA Fans are like that.
by Anton Tabuena on Oct 25, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who are you calling gay?
by nottheface on Oct 25, 2009 3:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Okay you didn’t bash him but it just seemed like you’re downplaying his win. Like, oh yeah he won but man he has no ko power. I mean, niether does Randy and look where thats gotten him. Maybe he doesn’t need that one hitta quita type ko power to win. Anyway I just watched the fight over and he did have Rothwell on queer street a couple times. Also the first time I didnt notice how he got pretty busted up. Big Ben looked completely out of it at the sound of the horn after the first. We need some gifs from his crushing performance.I got this one off of mmacore but the quality sucks. Beautiful single leg trip takedown in the beginning.
SHOGUN SLAYED THE DRAGON!!!
SHOGUN GOT ROBBED FROM HIS LHW TITLE!!!
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Oct 25, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't get it - your becoming less & less rational over all this
Usually I enjoyed your stuff, but now your just shitting all over anyone with a different opinion. The Easton/Beebe fight was a blatant robbery, and instead of lashing out in all directions, Luke actually made intelligent, articulate posts about it, not just ranting about it, and lo and behold, I bet he helped change the decision. Now I doubt that a lone internet poster will affect the largest MMA org in the world, but it’s a great example to follow. Instead, you’re just sherdogging it, personally attacking anyone who disagrees.
I agree Shogun won, but judging is a bureaucratic process. If Shogun clearly, but not dominantly, won 2 rounds, and Machida barely won 3, then under the 10-pt-must rules, Machida wins (This is how Bisping beat Hammil). Under Japanese rules, Shogun wins. Anton’s post shows just how close the rounds were. I also agree that Machida never saying “I won” is damning evidence. However, that post, which agrees with our decision no less, still suffered your keyboard wrath. There is an intelligent difference of opinion over this.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Oct 25, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where can I find a link seems like theres none
and also wouldnt that be crazy to have a Champ who is 3-2 in the UFC (if Shogun wins the rematch) if not being 2-3 will suck for him because he is much better than that would show
by xbuckeyex05 on Oct 25, 2009 12:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn’t get too caught up in records. Especially with the way Shogun’s last two fights have been and the reaction of the aftermath of those fights. Shogun isn’t going anywhere.
by Phildo on Oct 25, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I def. agree especially since 2 of the 3 lossed would be to Machida but I know how ppl get about that kinda stuff around here
by xbuckeyex05 on Oct 25, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All robbery talk aside:
I was really impressed with Shogun. The talk coming into this fight was that he was too wild, not really a great striker but rather a guy got by on wildness, unpredictability, and power. But he came into a fight not a lot of people gave him a chance to win and fought a very smart, technical match. It’s nice to see a guy reclaim his elite status like that after so many people wrote him off.
by JRN on Oct 25, 2009 2:59 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
^this
And don’t forget how many were saying he was on roids in Pride and that was the reason he was doing so poorly in the UFC. I hope they bite their tongs, roids accusations are lame, Shogun had knee problems and this is proof that the knees were in fact the sole reason he was not fighting the way he was in Pride.
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 25, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As for fighting differently, there’s also the rule changes (for which Chuck is thankful, I’m sure!).
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Oct 25, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, who knows why he’s not fighting with his PRIDE style now. But whatever it was, it was probably for the best. He was a significantly different fighter out there, and that’s a mark of greatness: the ability to adjust to your opponent, even when the adjustment required is considerable. I can’t wait to see him fight again.
I also hope this doesn’t sour people on Machida. He’s still rad. It was a very good, very interesting fight. This is the kind of match I would show to someone to demonstrate that there’s more to MMA than tribal tats and nu-metal meatheads.
by JRN on Oct 25, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I’ve been saying since this fight was first announced, that he was going to fight a smart fight and not throw anything wild. Shogun has always been an intelligent fighter, he does wild stuff against people he knows he can overwhelm. Many people were comparing his style to Thiago Silva, which just baffled me.
And Machida is still a great fighter, but I say Shogun will work for the finish in their second fight to put this to rest :P
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 25, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His MT was so on point tonight, it's rediculous
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Robert Downey Sr. on Oct 25, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
*last night
ugh, hungover..
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Robert Downey Sr. on Oct 25, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, mad props to Shogun.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Oct 25, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Impossible to not rec.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Oct 25, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here’s a post-fight thought: remember when the UFC was in big trouble because its champions were just too dominant and none of them could possibly lose in the foreseeable future?
I picked Lyoto in this fight too, but I’m going to be smiling every time something like this happens to one of the “unbeatable champions” everyone was crowing about a month or two ago.
by JRN on Oct 25, 2009 9:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I’m very happy that Sonnen put an end to the Okami hype train and now we can put that bs to bed. Shogun was robbed and is the #1 LHW in the world and hopefully he’ll get a rematch as soon as possible because he deserves it so much for Machida being unbeatable. Struve looked good the guy is going to be a guy to watch for years to come. Barry has nasty power in his hands and ko’ing Hardonk was very impressive. And Finally Cain deserves Nog to get a shot at the HW title, he may not have KO power but he has a great gastank and dominant wrestler he’s going to give top guys fits.
by Raker on Oct 26, 2009 12:18 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't know
Cain has been impressive against second tier guys like Rothwell and Kongo but when he gets to the “top guys” like Lesnar and Carwin, who are also great wrestlers, how is he gonna deal with the extra 20-40 pounds they have on him? It’s one thing to take down a big guy like Rothwell who has no ground game, it’s a different thing entirely to take down an NCAA champion like Lesnar who weighs 280.
by ufc4 on Oct 26, 2009 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or...
someone who possesses any threat off their back if he does put them there. I was REALLY impressed with Cain’s gastank yesterday. But still…Jake O’Brien, Denis Stojnic, Cheick Kongo and Ben Rothwell. These are guys that have NOTHING if you put them on their back. I think the next step for Cain should either be a good striker with good wrestling or a good striker with a good grasp of BJJ. I still want to see how well he is covering up the defensive problems we saw against Kongo (looked to be much better this fight but hard to really tell) but I want to see a new dimension thrown in. Not a small O’Brien’s overrated wrestling or the three strikers with no ground game.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 26, 2009 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I think Cain is being pushed into contention much too quickly because of all the hype. They needs to be giving him the Jon Joned treatment, moving him up step by step so he can continue to improve his game. The guy is still very young, let’s give him some time.
by ufc4 on Oct 26, 2009 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think hes being pushed because the UFC doesnt have enough quality heavyweights. He is destined to be a gatekeeper at heavyweight but I think his real potential lies at light heavy where his skills could allow him to have a GSP type ability to takedown and control all of his opponents.
I was surrounded by Cain fans at the fight and I told them all "look, he has looked amazing but hes what is he going to do when he has to face a guy like Lesnar who is equally as good of a wrestler and significantly bigger and stronger than he is?
Personally I’d like to see him fight Frank Mir
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
by Day Man on Oct 26, 2009 4:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He needs to get with a good boxing or kickboxing coach to really refine his striking, he’s obviously a strong guy so if he just got the right technique down he would at least be a threat on the feet. Whatever his striking coach is teaching him right now isn’t working.
by ufc4 on Oct 26, 2009 9:56 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Who knows how Cain would do against a guy like Brock, the only way we will know is if they fight. People keep talking about Cain like he’s some gatekeeper or something the guy has great wrestling, cardio and is improving and beating legit hw’s what more does he have to do to get some props. Simply put there is no reason why he shouldn’t get one of the big boys in the UFC at HW, everyone is booked so unless someone drops out because of an injury Nog is the clear choice as to who he should fight next.
by Raker on Oct 26, 2009 7:07 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
“what more does he have to do to get some props.”
He needs to win a fight with something other than just takedowns. Obviously that is a great tool to have but he’s not going to get to the top of the division on wrestling alone. Top 5? Maybe. Champion? No.
by ufc4 on Oct 26, 2009 9:59 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
GSP?
Except, Cain has gotten refs to stop his fights.
SHOGUN SLAYED THE DRAGON!!!
SHOGUN GOT ROBBED FROM HIS LHW TITLE!!!
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Oct 26, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
GSP has three ref stoppages in his UFC career, 8 TKOs total. He has more career finishes than decisions, and more than half of his UFC wins are finishes. This “GSP is a blanket” idea must die.
by JRN on Oct 26, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well Cain hasn’t had enough fights. I didn’t say he was a blanket. He’s one of my fav fighters.
SHOGUN SLAYED THE DRAGON!!!
SHOGUN GOT ROBBED FROM HIS LHW TITLE!!!
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Oct 26, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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