Mauricio "Shogun" Rua Promised Immediate Rematch After UFC 104 Decision Loss to Lyoto Machida
by Kid Nate on Oct 25, 2009 8:28 AM EDT
in News
127 comments
Per MMA Weekly:
UFC president Dana White confirmed to MMAWeekly.com that Rua would get an immediate rematch.
"I think there will be a rematch in that fight," said White. "I talked to both of them and they both agreed to a rematch."
Rua voiced his opinion at the post-fight press conference that he's welcome to a second bout with the champion.
"Of course I'm thinking about a rematch ever since the fight, and if that's Dana's wish and Lyoto's wish, I'll fight him anywhere, anytime, wherever. It's just a matter of people wanting to put the fight together," said the former top ranked 205-pounder in the world.
Machida also expressed that he'd take the immediate rematch. "Of course if the UFC decides we should have a rematch then let's have a rematch," said the champion.
That's bad news for the champion, as Shogun clearly figured out how to beat Machida: control the footwork, refuse to be baited by Machida's feints but force Machida to throw the first strike in any exchange and tag him hard to the legs and body.
Kevin Iole says Rua should blame his corner:
The men who should be facing the wrath of those who felt Rua had won should not be Hamilton, Peoples and Rosales, who rendered their opinions in a very technical, taut affair. Rather, Rua supporters should be angry at his corner men, who continually told him he was well ahead.
Rua said he didn't press the action in the final two rounds because his corner had told him he was in control. If that's true, it's that advice that cost him the fight. And it's always the worst kind of advice to give a fighter in any match, but particularly a technical fight like Machida-Rua.
And while many disagree with the judges, their decision is at least defensible. ...
This was a fight that was there for Rua to win and he simply didn't win it. Had the decision gone Rua's way, Machida couldn't have complained, because there was little to choose from in many of the rounds. It was a very close fight and a case could be made for either man in most of the rounds.
I have to agree with Iole here. Scoring in a fight like this is so subjective that a fighter's corner should never reassure him that he is ahead on points. Especially when he's fighting for the title. Brookhouse is right that you shouldn't have to knock out the champion to take the title, but the reality is that a knock out is the only way to be sure that you'll take the belt. It's not the way it should be, but all too often it's the way it is.
And one more voice has been added to the chorus of those scoring the fight for Shogun.
FightMetric scored the bout 49-46 for Mauricio "Shogun" Rua over Lyoto Machida:
And in the extended entry, I've got each judges' round by round scores.
Per Fightlinker:
Nelson Hamilton
Round 1 - Shogun
Round 2 - Machida
Round 3 - Machida
Round 4 - Machida
Round 5 - ShogunCecil Peoples
Round 1 - Machida
Round 2 - Machida
Round 3 - Machida
Round 4 - Shogun
Round 5 - ShogunMarcos Rosales
Round 1 - Machida
Round 2 - Machida
Round 3 - Machida
Round 4 - Shogun
Round 5 - Shogun
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Shogun won that fight.
There are no doubts about it. A rematch is really the minimum.
But it won’t give Shogun the victory he deserved. That’s really a shame. Shogun is the #1 LHW for me no doubt and Machida is no longer undefeated and is more like a paper champion for now.
Shogun fought well, intelligent and outstruck Machida. Congrats to him. He should be the champion.
by JackO on Oct 25, 2009 8:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I dont agree with Iole…
It’s been long thought that the only way to beat machida would be someone as methodical and calculated as he was… and SHogun fought the perfect fight to do just that. It’s not easy to restrain yourself.
We can see from FightMetric that it WORKED!
Shogun put on one of the greatest performances of his career and he was fucked.
The only good thing that came out of this is that you can NOW sell this fucking fight and people will be very eager for the rematch,
On a side note about the event:
Thank God sonnen spanked okami’s ass… now we can stop hearing from the crybabies for okami to get a title shot.
by mmalogic on Oct 25, 2009 9:04 AM EDT reply actions 15 recs
is there a Super-Rec button?
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Robert Downey Sr. on Oct 25, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m in agreement with disagreeing with Iole. His argument would only be correct if Shogun lost the fight in the final two round when he was “being cautious”. But he won those two rounds with the judges. His defeat had already been cemented by the judges giving Machida the first 3 rounds.
by nottheface on Oct 25, 2009 2:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps he should have been working for the finish having lost the first three rounds.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Oct 25, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not that we could have known he was behind since y’know he shouldn’t have been.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Oct 25, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would still be a bad idea… sure if Shogun wasnt winning then fine this your last round go out on your shield.
You have a very small margin of error in fighting Machida. Shogun stayed in the margin and did what no other fighter has been able to do: Out strike him.
Now the judges are saying: “no, no, no…. not only do you have to beat him you have to do it while you’re outside of that margin”.
(margin in this case being dont use your kicks which were more effective than Machidas punches… instead open yourself up e using your hands and become a target just like every other guy Machida stomped).
The problem comes down to rounds 1,2 and 3. They were all close. Shogun or Machida could have won 2 of them but for sure shogun won at least one.
I mean if you’re a judge how stupid do you have to be to give the same fighter all of the first 3 rounds (which were so close) basically clinching the fight on the scorecards for one guy when there’s 2 rounds left.
Common sense says "wait a second I gave the last round which could have gone either way to fighter “B” let me give this round which was just as close to fighter “A”.
yes the guidelines are to score each round on its own. But there’s also a bunch of other shit they dont pay attention to. The fact that they didn’t give at least 1 of the first 3 rounds to shogun means they have no clue what effective striking means.
by mmalogic on Oct 25, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I agree with this. It’s idiotic to pretend that a round happens in a complete vacuum. Awarding 10-8 rounds should work the same way. If you give a fighter a 10-8 round, and the other fighter approaches the same level of offense in the next round, they should also get a 10-8 . Otherwise you could get a draw where one fighter barely crosses the threshold for a 10-8 in one round and the other fighter barely misses the threshold in two rounds. If a fighter does 101% of the offense necessary to get an “objective” 10-8 in one round, and the other fighter has 99% of the offense necessary to win a 10-8 in the other two rounds, the second fighter deserves to have one of his rounds scored a 10-8 and get the win.
by Jahbulon on Oct 25, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I had it 49-46 too. Machida just edged round three. I have yet to watch it again, but until then this decision was bullshit.
This shirt is "dry clean only", which means it's dirty.
by SamCupitt on Oct 25, 2009 9:05 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thank you for posting what I believed to be the correct score.
Shogun Rua won that fight in my opinion and did so in dominant fashion. To see him robbed was really a disservice to the sport.
by JAYGK95 on Oct 26, 2009 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To call a close controversial decision a robbery is a disservice to the sport and those people who have truly been robbed.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Oct 26, 2009 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
//There are no doubts about it. A rematch is really the minimum//
Yeah. That’s all the UFC can do. The fight was indeed close and scoring it for Machida wasn’t retarded, it just didn’t seem right. Rua deserves an immediate rematch, especially since there aren’t any super viable contenders that will be ready soon.
by Razz on Oct 25, 2009 9:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Everything shogun was doing was working against a guy where “nothing works” … what is his corner going to tell him in the 5th round? “Go out and throw away this monumental accomplishment”?
by mmalogic on Oct 25, 2009 9:24 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
it’s kind of funny because when I was watching it and hearing machida’s corner telling him that he was winning, i was telling my brother how thats a bit stupid and how its not something you should be telling a fighter.
This shirt is "dry clean only", which means it's dirty.
by SamCupitt on Oct 25, 2009 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kevin Iole is so full of sh*t...
Shogun’s most decisive rounds were the later ones. Why the hell should he risk the fight and start running after Machdia like Thiago Silva did? Not to risk the judges f*cking up royally? He shouldn’t have to worry about that!
by zeke21 on Oct 25, 2009 9:26 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
For those of you that keep pointing to Fight Metric’s score as hardcore, bottom line proof of anything. You are never allowed to complain about Bisping/Hamill then as Fight Metric (correctly) scored that fight for Bisping. I’m not saying that you’re wrong that Shogun won. I’m just sayin…i saw a few people talk about the Bisping/Hammil fight as a “robbery” and then point to fight metric as proof that Shogun won.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 25, 2009 9:33 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
For the record I had Bisping over Hamill as well…
This shirt is "dry clean only", which means it's dirty.
by SamCupitt on Oct 25, 2009 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re smarter than you look
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 25, 2009 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re both sillyheads. Bisping/Hamill made Rua/Machida look like Nog/Couture.
I may not have done that right – analogies are hard.
BOOSH
by Farthammer on Oct 25, 2009 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I get what you’re trying to say, I think.
Bottom line is that Hamill won that fight and Shogun won this one. I don’t care what and fight metric says, you can watch the fight and see that both of these men did enough to get a win and their opponents did not.
by oasis77 on Oct 25, 2009 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is a good argument but I’m looking at my own eyes as hardcore, bottom line proof and Fightmetric as confirmation :)
by mmalogic on Oct 25, 2009 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fightmetric had the score 355 for Hamill VS Bisping. Fightmetric gave the the bout to Hamill based on their criteria but gave it to Bisping based on 10 point must. Using Hamill/Bisping to defend Machida/Shogun is weak.
by cyph on Oct 25, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
355 VS 229. They validated 10 point must by a small margin. Hamill won 1st round overwhelmingly, but lost the next two by a slim margin. They had Shogun winning the fight based on the Fightmetric criteria and by 10-point must.
by cyph on Oct 25, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not using it to defend the decision. I think Machida won the fight and I have already covered that. I’m just saying. We don’t score on the fightmetric system…we score on a 10 point must. If someone says “Fightmetric scored the fight 49-47 Shogun” and also talks about the Hammil/Bisping fight…it doesn’t add up.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 25, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You seem to think that the Hamill/Bisping fight was a robbery when it was not. Fightmetric vindicated the decision through the actual stats showing that Bisping won round 2 and 3 by a very slim margin while Hamill destroyed him in the 1st. The decision was a result of the weakness of the 10 point must system. You somehow extrapolate the data backing up the judges’ decision in the Bisping/Hamill fight as somehow an indictment on the unreliability of the Fightmetric system. That is a huge leap in logic.
Can’t we all admit that our bias clouds our judgment but the numbers are far more reliable. Numbers are objective, opinions are subjective. Why is it that we use Fightmetric as good hard evidence only when it agrees with us? We either agree with the Fightmetric system all the time, or we dismiss it altogether. Bisping/Hamill wasn’t a robbery because the numbers matched the judge’s decision. Machida/Rua is a robbery because the numbers don’t match. It’s not that complicated.
by cyph on Oct 25, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brent is actually one of the few guys who have constantly defended that decision.
you’re kinda missed what he actually meant.
by Anton Tabuena on Oct 25, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we’re not having the same discussion. I thought Machida won this fight. I thought Bisping won that fight. I’m just saying. If you think a guy won…then you think a guy won. I just don’t want people only picking and choosing when they think FightMetric should be brought into the equation. Like, I won’t say that Bisping won and then point you to fightmetric as proof…but then defend this decision and ignore fightmetric because it doesn’t match up with what I saw.
If you think someone won…think it because that is how you saw it. That’s all I’m saying.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 25, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure relying solely on Fightmetric doesnt do… but pick any indicator you like?
MMA Writers? 90% plus thought Shogun won.
Live Crowd? they thought shogun won.
Goldberg/Rogun? they thought shogun won.
Hardcore MMA fans? They thought shogun won.
Dana? They thought shogun won.
by mmalogic on Oct 25, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All well and good...
I can certainly see thinking Shogun won.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 25, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can’t determine truth through consensus. If everyone on earth including Machida thought he lost the fight, it doesn’t mean he did, it just makes it the common perception.
by omigawda on Oct 25, 2009 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I scored that fight 0-0
I dislike Matt Hughes. Shogun beat him like a dirty horse.
by MonkeyCHops on Oct 25, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
After seeing those scorecards I definitely have to watch this fight again. I had the first two rounds pretty comfortable for Shogun.
This shirt is "dry clean only", which means it's dirty.
by SamCupitt on Oct 25, 2009 9:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
scoring round 4 for Machida = brilliant…
what a disgrace
by Reaser16 on Oct 25, 2009 9:39 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
How ironic it is that it wasn’t Cecil Peoples responsible for that one, huh? ;-)
by Chortles on Oct 25, 2009 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
First and foremost congrats to Shogun. With that being said some of the exchanges I saw, Machida was a strike or two from ending the fight. I know everything is subjective and I will most likely need to watch the fight again. Machida is a paper champion!??!? Wow hes been flawless in 16 fights up to this, makes a few mistakes and everyone’s treating him like hes garbage, GTFO.
by ChuteLegend on Oct 25, 2009 10:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He's a Paper Champion 'cause HE LOST THE FIGHT BUT THE GODDAMN JUDGES GAVE HIM THE WIN ANYWAY!!
(as you can tell, I’m a teensy-bit upset at this outcome)
by BNTHIS on Oct 26, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just a few thoughts on the fight. First of all, who is in charge of the on screen text at these UFC PPVs? Machida is “Elusive” not “Allusive” Second, Is it “Red Schafer”, “Ravishing Red”, “Eric Red” or something else? I heard so many different versions of his name, I don’t think anyone knows. Finally, I too thought that Rua won the fight, but in the after fight interview, Lyoto said it best if I heard and understood him correctly. He said there were 3 judges and they all scored it for me. If it was a split decision, we can all start crying robbery, but all three judges? Unless they sit right beside each other for the whole fight, discuss scores amongst themselves before they are tallied and “copy” off each other how do they each come up with the same score?
by pharmboy on Oct 25, 2009 10:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I had to get my $$$ back
I made a bet with a friend and as the final horn sounded, I threw my $ money down to pay up for the obvious Rua victory. I was pouring shots in the other room when he came back out to give me my winnings…I just watched the fight again this morning, and think I’m going to have to give my winnings back.
"Now that I'm here, I don't want to just be here, I want to be here for a long time." Hines Ward, 1998 4th round draft pick.
by kick him in the head on Oct 25, 2009 10:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Shogun is the real champion. Everybody knows that. Lyoto knows it, Ed Soares knows it, and Lyoto’s dad knows it.
by dagoldenmonkey on Oct 25, 2009 10:13 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
FightMetric scored it 49-47.
And I think the biggest thing FM shows is how slow, patient, and close this fight is. Round 5 is the most decisive round, as most of us thought last night. But every other round is very close.
R1 M 15 S 28
R2 M 21 S 11
R3 M 47 S 46
R4 M 4 S 10
Through four rounds we have Machida 87 and Shogun 95. There’s just not a lot separating these guys through the first 20 minutes. So even though FM has Shogun as the winner, it’s certainly not definitive.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on Oct 25, 2009 10:18 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Exactly. FightMetric gave round three as a draw but had Machida with an advantage in points. When you look at it like that even fightmetric has it as a very close decision for Shogun.
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
by Day Man on Oct 25, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know who enters the information for FM but Machida landed more than 8 power shots to the head. And it seems they gave Rua a power leg kick for even the kicks that grazed Machida’s shorts. I also don’t think leg shots are as devastating as body and head shots. That is JMO though
by swells2048 on Oct 25, 2009 10:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
ANNOUNCEMENT: (BREAKING NEWS):
“The Qualifications for being a judge in the Machida versus Shogun REMATCH has been changed. All Judges are now required to take one leg kick and one body kick from Shogun before they are even considered for the spot.”
by mmalogic on Oct 25, 2009 10:29 AM EDT reply actions 7 recs
Let’s not undervalue that Machida jab that did NO damage, and then ignore the freaking blood coming out of Machida’s ribs from the huge shots he had to take to land said jab.
Spinning out solid gold, like Rumpelstiltskin.
by Heenan on Oct 25, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Don’t quit your dayjob, Seinfeld.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on Oct 25, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Heya Mike,
At first, I was pretty unhappy with the decision from last night and thought the judges really screwed up. However, after reading your posts, I’m beginning to see things your way.
According to the scoring system, Machida probably did win rounds 1-3 and lose rounds 4-5. This doesn’t change the fact that I’m convinced Shogun definitely won the fight as a whole.
Now I see it like this: This was an outlier fight that broke the scoring system. No scoring system can be perfect, and in this instance the scoring system just produced the wrong result. It wasn’t the judges’ fault—two out of three of them scored the fight, round by round, correctly. Systems don’t always work.
by Lauren J Darkbloom on Oct 25, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 9 recs
if it was in PRIDE rules, Shogun wins for sure..
also, Doc Hamilton screwed up (IMO) for giving Lyoto the 4th round.. but ofcourse it would’ve still been the same and Lyoto would still win the decision..
by Anton Tabuena on Oct 25, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Last paragraph of this post is money.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on Oct 25, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wish I could rec a post 20 times...
because this is a great post
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 25, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I honestly don’t see how anyone who knows shit about the sport can give 1 and 2 to Machida. That’s pretty silly.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Oct 25, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I could say the same to giving it to Shogun. The first couple rounds were really, really close. Even though I gave the first three rounds to Machida, I can totally see it going the other way. It’s what happens when you have such a close, technical fight. Judging is so subjective.
I love me some Sexyama!
by pud333 on Oct 25, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought about this
I feel like people just don’t understand how devastating a leg/body kick really is
by Shaun32887 on Oct 25, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You probably should’ve slept on that comment and posted it in the morning. A for effort though.
by Dooda on Oct 25, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
anyone else book what dana white said to shogun? looked like “you won that fight” but i’m no lip reader.
by dagoldenmonkey on Oct 25, 2009 11:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Shogun should fight at least 1 or 2 more times.....
before he gets a rematch. Against top ten opposition by the way!. Shogun needs to get rid of that ugly loss on his record and beat Forrest. THEN he should fight Tito Ortiz or maybee Rampage(if he comes back ,which is likely). Or he could bypass them both and just fight Anderson Silva for a title shot.
for all intents and purposes, just consider all my posts as works of satire.
by Bandaka on Oct 25, 2009 11:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If there’s ever an appropriate time for an immediate rematch, it’s right now.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on Oct 25, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Is 60 days to quick to fill the new years main event?
Spinning out solid gold, like Rumpelstiltskin.
by Heenan on Oct 25, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes, machida has a few cuts on his face, and both guys have bumps and bruises that they have to recover from..
Maybe a January card?
by Anton Tabuena on Oct 25, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think this fight has super Bowl written all over it.
by Phildo on Oct 25, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah yes, Shogun must beat Tito before a rematch, what great logic you have there.
"of a world thats doing its best, night and day,
to make me everybody else"
by Lay 'n' Pray on Oct 25, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honest question: Are you being serious?
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Oct 25, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This also proves
that karate isn’t as effective as people thought and a clinical muay thai striker will eat karate up for breakfast any day.
"of a world thats doing its best, night and day,
to make me everybody else"
by Lay 'n' Pray on Oct 25, 2009 11:12 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Let’s not get carried away. I think it was a robbery but I’d take Machida on a rematch.
by cyph on Oct 25, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont know about that… The trend was going more and more towards shoguns favor. If anything I think shogun will be even more dangerous next fight.
Machida will improve as well so very tough to predict except that it will be an epic fight.
by mmalogic on Oct 25, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
word- shogun will keep killing machida’s legs and body and keep his hands up to block machida’s straight punch counter- i think shogun will go for the kill inthe later rounds when machida is beaten up and slowed down from all the damage…
by oousty on Oct 25, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was the fact that Machida’s karate/horse stance did not last the whole fight because his legs were chewed up. Also the most effective stuff were saw from Machida was his Muay Thai. I’m not getting carried away, I’m just stating that the Horse stance only looks good for so long.
"of a world thats doing its best, night and day,
to make me everybody else"
by Lay 'n' Pray on Oct 25, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its like rock, paper, scissors...
No one style holds complete supremacy over the others. Sure Muay thai won last night, but that doesn’t mean much considering, in theory, a good grappler would take out the Muay thai specialist. Look at Shoguns losses, all to grappler (except Forrest and Machida of course).
for all intents and purposes, just consider all my posts as works of satire.
by Bandaka on Oct 25, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
healthy Shogun
has only one real loss in his book, and that’s to Babalu in the beginning of his career. Shogun is the most unlucky fighter in the history of MMA.
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 25, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't go so far as to say he's the most unlucky fighter...
We are talking about the winner of the greatest MMA tournament of all time. But his record definitely doesn’t tell the whole story.
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Robert Downey Sr. on Oct 25, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s sad really, he loses to Babalu in Brazil in the beginning of his career, that was legit. Broke his arm against Coleman, fought against Forrest on one leg and got choked out, and now this damn decision. Shogun could easily be 21-1.
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 25, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very true
But I must say, Orcus, you and FenixKnight are taking too much space on Shogun’s ballsack and I’m not exactly the smallest person…
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Robert Downey Sr. on Oct 25, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure it was the MT vs. Karate aspect that gave Lyoto problems.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on Oct 25, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I think it had a lot more to do with Shogun taking away Machida’s bicycle. That gave the speed advantage to Rua, and then Machida had to fight Shogun’s fight.
Spinning out solid gold, like Rumpelstiltskin.
by Heenan on Oct 25, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That, and he never allowed Machida to get into a rhythm.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on Oct 25, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't agree with lole at all here..
Shogun did plenty in the last few rounds and was def much more effective with Machida in the final few rounds than vice versa. Machida is a uy that nobody has finished so I don’t think you can say it’s his corners fault for telling him he’s not ahead and therefore he toned it down a bit. Regardless of how much he toned it down, it still was enough for the win.
Machida lost that fight. Yes, you have to beat the champion to win the belt, but Machida got beat any way you look at it.
I gurantee Machida is limping around this morning.
by oasis77 on Oct 25, 2009 11:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think Machida has probably drank two pints of his own urine and is feeling fine by now.
for all intents and purposes, just consider all my posts as works of satire.
by Bandaka on Oct 25, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only thing I can think is that Iole believes his corner should have been telling him to work for a finish. But that’s a laughably bad strategy as well.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on Oct 25, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep, the short bursts when Shogun went wild where the times where he got tagged hard.
by Anton Tabuena on Oct 25, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know. In the 5th Machida wasn’t looking too hot. He wasn’t mounting anything and clearly had no pop in his legs. I was watching wondering why Shogun wasn’t working for the finish.
But ooh, has anyone thought about a Shogun Lil’Nog re-match lately? If it’s half as good as the first one, it’s an instant classic.
by Dooda on Oct 25, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hoinestly thought Machida looked like a defeated man in the 5th just from facial and body expression while Shogun was bouncing around looking super confident.
by xbuckeyex05 on Oct 25, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s why Iole no one asks Iole to corner them, working for a finish would be ridiculous.
by Shaun32887 on Oct 25, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But it wouldn’t have been ridiculous at all. Machida wasn’t dangerous at the time, surely everyone could see that. And the rounds were extremely close, especially the first 3. Why would you not be desperately trying to finish at that point?
by Dooda on Oct 25, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s the problem… in order to beat Machida you have to do it methodically, Which is exactly what Shogun did. If Machida is running 20mph you have to run 22mph… if you run 23mph Machida will wack you down to 10mph or unconscious. It’s like disarming a time bomb.
Shogun fought the perfect fight against Machida.
Unfortunately there’s a big correlation between who the fan’s are cheering for and who ends up winning the close rounds.
by mmalogic on Oct 25, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, I think this would be a good main event if they were to try and set up a return visit to Brazil. Maybe schedule this for the end of March timeframe..
by oasis77 on Oct 25, 2009 11:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I also would like to add that I don’t think Shogun beats Machida in the rematch. Macida is one of those guys that may lose a fight to someone 1, maybe 2 times out of 10 total times of they were to fight 10 times.
I don’t think it’s possible to have Machida’s number in any way.
by oasis77 on Oct 25, 2009 11:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think I agree
Machida didn’t look good entering the cage, he looked off, his confidence wasn’t there. I think all the added attention from being champ really got to him
by Shaun32887 on Oct 25, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I did allow for this when it was admitted that within the first two weeks of camp he was overwhelmed by that. However, when I saw the commotion in Machida’s corner before the fight I was certain that something was up, and at that time and at this time I still consider it more influential on his poor performance.
by Chortles on Oct 25, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dreamed about that fight tonight, I never dream about fights, I think I’m traumatized
UFC 104=> ben rothwell will UD the shit outta Velasquez.
Not.
by spectaa on Oct 25, 2009 11:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
6 to 37 is the fightmetric score for the 5th round. They scored the entire fight 100 to 134.
by Jahbulon on Oct 25, 2009 12:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i find it funny that some of the same people who were saying last night “wait until fight metric comes out on this fight and you’ll see that clearly machida won the fight” are now saying that fight metric is useless.
I'm old school hating Lesnar, I've been hating Lesnar since '08
by MicahW on Oct 25, 2009 12:40 PM EDT reply actions 12 recs
A-yep. Rec’d.
I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on Oct 25, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
make this green ppl, make it green damn it!
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 25, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
just like to tell orcus, machida nuthuggers got served that is all.
War Shogun Nuthuggers!!!
by mr. gogoplata on Oct 25, 2009 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The numbers for strikes, sub attempts, and takedowns are helpful, but the scoring algorithm is stupid.
by omigawda on Oct 25, 2009 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And once again, Kevin Iole is full of feces. The vast majority of folks at home, and in the arena, thought Shogun was winning the fight going away. To say that Shogun’s corner should’ve somehow been immune to what virtually everyone was seeing is ridiculous.
I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on Oct 25, 2009 12:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The vast majority of folks at home, and in the arena, thought Shogun was winning the fight going away.
No they didn’t.
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
by Day Man on Oct 25, 2009 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You miss their reaction when Machida was announced winner?
by oasis77 on Oct 25, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No I was actually able to hear it in context.
The boo’s came down from the rafters along with the type of uneducated nonsense that makes it difficult to sit through an entire fight “Quit running like a bitch homey!” repeated over and over from the start of round one. I fail to see how the reaction of the most ignorant and also the most vocal segment of the crowd is a representation of the fast majority of the people in the arena.
A similar situation happened when the Cain-Rothwell fight was stopped and boos filled the arena. Its not a reflection of the majority of people in attendance believing the fight shouldn’t have been stopped (Cain was by far the biggest fan favorite there and most of the fans were happy he won the fight) but there was a very loud vocal minority that was able to make their voices heard.
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
by Day Man on Oct 26, 2009 4:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
By the end of the fight, they sure did. As oasis77 said, just listen to the crowd when the decision was read.
I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on Oct 25, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was at the fight.
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
by Day Man on Oct 26, 2009 4:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
An immediate rematch is the ONLY just thing to do at this point. I’m glad Shogun is going to get it, and I’m also glad Machida is willing to do it, cause I’m sure Machida knows that he got worked, that for the first time he looked human. It was a brilliant plan on Shogun’s part to hit the easiest target: the body, instead of head hunting. However, I would still pick Machida in the rematch. I think Shogun will be put in a position where in the rematch, because of how this one ended, he’ll feel like he definitely has to finish. It is clear that Shogun cannot let the second fight go to the judges. And I think Machida will catch him then. I don’t think Machida expected Shogun to be so patient, and I think in the second fight, Shogun will not be as patient. The times when he did get a little sloppy, Machida clocked him a few good ones. Machida will be better prepared next time. Fool Machida once, shame on… shame on Shogun. Fool Machida… can’t get fooled again. :)
I love me some Sexyama!
by pud333 on Oct 25, 2009 1:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR AN EXPLANATION FOR THE JUDGE (HAMILTON) WHO GAVE MACHIDA RD 4
I was at a bar watching it (about 100 ppl) and after the decision the whole place stood and boo’d. I had bet on that fight with a friend of mine ( I had taken Shogun) and as soon as the fight was over he threw the money at me and left pissed off. When I called him after and told him the decision he couldnt even believe it and he LOVES Machida
by xbuckeyex05 on Oct 25, 2009 1:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Don’t know what Hamilton was thinking with that call. I’m surprised there isn’t more outrage from Shogun fans since that was the most lopsided round. I actually thought round 5 could have gone either way.
A couple things to remember:
1. For some reason UFC judges tend to discount leg kicks.
2. Viewers could have easily been influenced by Goldberg and Rogan’s constant praising of Shogun.
That being said, I still would have scored it for Shogun, but when you take into account the above two facts, it’s not such an outrage that the decision went to Machida.
by Pantherhare on Oct 26, 2009 2:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Shogun learned a significant thing from the Tito fight: protect your damn head at all times. Lyoto will always eat the leg kick to blast with a straight punch. Shogun seems to be one of the few fighters who has actually learned to keep his defenses up when throwing a leg kick.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Oct 25, 2009 1:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Lyoto has to eat the leg kick bc his legs are vulnerable due to his fighting style….shogun beat the shit out of his legs and body so that machida’s straight punch lost its power in the later rounds…oh by the way- shogun has proven to take a punch or two and is a lot more dangerous in exchanges than machida is…this rematch will be the same but I see Shogun finishing the fight in the 4th or 5th round next time so the judges cant screw him
by oousty on Oct 25, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hate to keep posting this but I keep seeing where everyone is saying they have watched the fight x amount of time and I cant find it to save my life what site has it?????
by xbuckeyex05 on Oct 25, 2009 1:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
They bought the PPV and DVR’d it. Buy it next time.
'Ello G'vnor!
by IHateMMA on Oct 25, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
One warning…we don’t give out streams of fights available to paying customers. We will post DREAM clips because there is no other way to see them unless you’re in Japan. However the UFC is available for purchase and as such no links will be provided and asking for them or providing them is a bannable offense on this site. Please stop asking.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 25, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
whoa
my bad. I thought that was only for the live streams I thought afterward it would be legally online..
by xbuckeyex05 on Oct 25, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I DONT EVEN CARE THAT RUA LOST
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cH-K3MU7-fA
he proved himself
WAR SHOGUN!!
by mr. gogoplata on Oct 25, 2009 2:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Even though Shogun lost, he did something no other fighter has….
1) He took 2(imo 4) rounds from Machida, something no other fighter has done.
2) He made Machida look human, showed a gameplan that can take him out.
Also, the old shogun is back, beat the champ at what hes good at(which is out point you to a descion) and should be considerd the #1 LHW in the world!!!!
WAR SHOGUN ON THE RE-MATCH!!!!
Everyone has a game plan, untell they get hit.
by mma is #1 on Oct 25, 2009 2:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Iole is full of shit.
Shogun’s corner told him he was way ahead because he was, or at least he should have been.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Oct 25, 2009 2:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
There is never a “way ahead” in MMA. They go 3 or 5 rounds, not 12.
'Ello G'vnor!
by IHateMMA on Oct 25, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When rounds are so close like they were in the first three, there is no way you tell your fighter he’s ahead. I mean, there is a long history of bad decisions in MMA. I personally wouldn’t bet on the judges scoring in your favor. You never know what they’ll do.
I love me some Sexyama!
by pud333 on Oct 25, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m sure as hell not complaining about Machida/Shogun II. Decision aside, this fight was rad. If questionable decisions mean instant rematches of great fights, then bring on the questionable decisions!
…OK, maybe that’s going a little too far.
by JRN on Oct 25, 2009 3:29 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Haha
Rec’d.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Oct 25, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like Dana says........
Never leave it to the judges. Even if your corner is telling you that you are in control. I understand it’s good strategy to win that way, but you have to be careful of idiots. We have seen judging like this too often for fighters to take a chance.
by Dexerion on Oct 25, 2009 4:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That fighmetric screenshot above is only Round 5
The total score is 100 Machida, 134 Shogun. So While Machida still lost, it’s not as dominating as a 6-37 score suggests
by Shaun32887 on Oct 25, 2009 5:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Also the total score would suggest pride scoring and not the 10 point must system used by the UFC.
"Japan is half-Machida" - iiowyn
by Day Man on Oct 26, 2009 4:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rua had already lost the decision after R3 by losing all 3 rounds on two scorecards. With the amount of damage he had done, I wouldn’t have imagined he needed a finish to win at that point.
It’s not Rua’s fault that the judges score the fight badly. One has to wonder if all of the talk about Machida being infallible found its way into the judges heads. I can easily imagine them giving him the benefit of the doubt based on his reputation as there were many difficult exchanges to decipher.
by bigweeze on Oct 26, 2009 2:12 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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!['Shogun' Rua talks Lyoto Machida rematch:
"I'm happy to fight again with (Machida), not because I think I won the first match but to have a new opportunity to fight for the belt. My big dream is to win the belt, so I want that fight again because it is a fight for the belt ... I can’t change a lot of my game because I’ve fought this way for 10 years, so I cannot totally change my game just because of Machida. Thank God I could annul his game, but unfortunately I could not win the belt. Now I have a new battle ahead, and I will make a new strategy. I'm in very basic training, but in February I’ll already be training harder. I believe that [light heavyweight] is the most competitive in the world. It always was. I know you will never have a breeze, and as I fight in the UFC, which is the biggest event in the world, I know I'll always face tough guys and can’t expect to have easy bouts. I know that and I will always expect to face the top fighters of the division."
HT: sherdog.com
UFC 113: Machida vs. Shogun 2 coverage](http://cdn3.sbnation.com/fan_shot_images/91904/thumbnail_crop_php_small.jpg)
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