UFC 104 Results: Mauricio "Shogun" Rua Picks Lyoto Machida Apart to Lose UFC Light Heavyweight Title
by Luke Thomas on Oct 25, 2009 12:52 AM EDT
in News
179 comments
Everyone sees fights differently and watching on television is different that capturing a fight on Joe Rogan missed the straight punches Machida landed in every rushed clash, but over the course of five rounds Mauricio "Shogun" Rua took three. The judges didn't see it that way.
Lyoto Machida defeats Mauricio "Shogun" Rua by unanimous decision 48-47, all three judges scoring it identically.
The fight's proposed clash of styles was at least visually apparent, but the real difference was damage. Shogun dismantled Machida with counter kicking to challenge the karateka's lunging chambered punches.The methodical body work was almost the opposite of head hunting. Shogun methodically took the spring out of Machida's step and spirit by grinding round kicks to the right lead leg and body.
Shogun also demonstrated success in closing the distance. He used takedown attempts both intended to initiate clinching or to rush Machida. And from afar Shogun performed ably as well. He continuously landed a thudding body kick on Machida's lunging crosses. That kick also found a home on Machida's front leg over and over again causing some of the most serious damage of the fight.
Machida was able to land straight punches throughout the fight, but not to any real damaging effect. Machida, however, was significantly slowed and made far more manageable in his movement and speed.
Damage aside, Shogun never lost his rhythm and classic style. Machida's attack appears substantially muted when he can't get opponents to lost their comfort zone.
As for the scoring, it's hard to find agreement with the judges. A case can be made for two rounds for Machida, but finding a third is difficult. In my judgment, rounds three through five are incontestably Shogun's. I also gave the first round to Shogun, but I'm entirely opposed to the notion of spotting Machida a round. Doesn't matter. Even a charitable first round doesn't save the UFC champ.
I'm also struck that this was a fight that if necessary could be decided on damage and yet it was still miscounted. The arithmetic was botched. Between this and Mazzagatti's outrageous stoppage, the alleged veteran officiating crew looked awfully green and unable to do damage inventory.
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P.S. I’ve never been more ashamed to be a MMA fan in my life. It just turned into boxing.
Twitter: @FlyByKnite
by FlyByKnight on Oct 25, 2009 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Needs about 10,000 more horrible decisions to be in boxing’s class.
by SlickRick00 on Oct 25, 2009 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its the same athletic commissions. Im sure there are more to come.
by ryanwk628 on Oct 25, 2009 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d still put MMA scoring overall against boxing’s any day. Bad decisions are the exception in MMA. Hell, decisions at all are the exception. MMA fans have it better in regard to outcome validity, no matter how disappointed we are at this moment.
by SlickRick00 on Oct 25, 2009 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, all the finishes take the pressure off the judges. And usually there are not many fights that go the distance and are this subjective.
I do wonder, all these finishes must take a toll on a guys body. We see what happens with ex NFL players. -500 in 10 years chuck is drooling on himself and wearing an adult diaper.
by ryanwk628 on Oct 25, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn’t go that far. It was a bad decision, in my eyes, yes, but MMA has light years to go before it catches up with all of the garbage boxing has foist upon its fans.
I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on Oct 25, 2009 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So…. Michael Bisping is somewhere laughing.
BULL SHIT.
by "Mr. NC-17" on Oct 25, 2009 12:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Its true
IS this an op ed?
That was seriously a robbery. i had it 50-46 as the site did. Is their anyone on Machidas side? besides these 3 judges
by bra1ntax on Oct 25, 2009 12:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I had it 49-46 Rua. Maybe someone could argues 48-47? Not sure till I see the stats. No way I see a draw, though, much less a Machida win.
by SlickRick00 on Oct 25, 2009 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When I heard 48-47, I though “That close?”, and then they said Machida, and my jaw dropped to the floor. Shogun was robbed big time, I hope they give him a rematch.
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 25, 2009 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me and my friends did the same. I was like, “Wow, that close? Atleast Rua… WTF?”
Keep sleepin' on me...
by Neo X on Oct 25, 2009 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I had it 48-47 Shogun, but upon regaining my senses, I realized that by round scoring, the judges decision wasn’t terrible. I just disagree with it, and as a FIGHT, Shogun clearly won by damage. I was really hoping Shogun would look that good, and amazed that he handled Lyoto at range. I thought he’d have to knock Lyoto out with something crazy to win, but he just outfought him and definitively won the last two rounds. The first three were fairly even. Apparently all three went to Machida. But your man looked AWESOME! MACHIDA/SHOGUN TRILOGY!
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 25, 2009 1:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sounds like thee’s going to be an immediate rematch, listening to dana at the post fight prss conference.
by bdw on Oct 25, 2009 2:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Worst decison ever?
FIRE BRUCE BOCHY NOW!!!!!!
AND TAKE BRIAN SABEAN WITH HIM!!!!!
by 49er16 on Oct 25, 2009 12:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah in MMA.
FIRE BRUCE BOCHY NOW!!!!!!
AND TAKE BRIAN SABEAN WITH HIM!!!!!
by 49er16 on Oct 25, 2009 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nothing yet is worse than Beebe/Easton.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Oct 25, 2009 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s worse due to the magnitude of the fight. I’m sure there are fights that have gone down somewhere at some point that make even Beebe/Easton look legit, but the point is the the importance of the decision. This was for the most coveted belt in the sport…
by Popetastic on Oct 25, 2009 2:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Worst decision in a major title fight that I can remember. In the sport’s history? Who knows.
by SlickRick00 on Oct 25, 2009 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yup. Worst Ive seen……….followed closely by the rothwell stoppage. Youre stop to stop fights when strikes cause a fighter to go down, not stand up!! Worst UFC event I can remember for so many reasons!
by GeeDub on Oct 25, 2009 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The UFC 104 co-main event will be talked about a long time because of those two decisions.
FIRE BRUCE BOCHY NOW!!!!!!
AND TAKE BRIAN SABEAN WITH HIM!!!!!
by 49er16 on Oct 25, 2009 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rothwell was getting tooled. The fight was stopped because it was a one-sided beating. I have no problem with that stoppage.
by cyph on Oct 25, 2009 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sadly, you dont stop a fight JUST because its one sided.
Its happening more and more now…..refs are stepping in stopping fights based on some expectation of what ‘will’ happen. Whats next? Maybe the ref of the Fedor v Rogers fight will stop the fight 1 second in as the likelihood that Rogers will be hurt is so high.
Amazing, I really didnt think I would see anybody supporting Rothwell v Cain stoppage when Rothwell was clearly unphased by the strikes. He was in the process of standing up……his legs were strong, his eyes were focused and he immediately responded with disgust and clarity upon realising the fight was being ended. Easily one of the top 10 worst stoppages of all time in my opinion.
by GeeDub on Oct 25, 2009 4:30 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not even close to the worst decision ever. Just a poor one IMO.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 25, 2009 2:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What decision(s) do you think are worse in MMA?
...Behold, a pale horse. The man that sat upon it was Wieters, and hell followed with him.
"BJ on the BE" - Kierkegaard
by Brett Jones on Oct 26, 2009 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
luke, the article is only displaying a couple random sentences right now (could just be my connection though)
by woooburn on Oct 25, 2009 12:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I had Shogun winning 4 of 5 rounds.
by Nick Thomas on Oct 25, 2009 12:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Everyone had Shoguy winning 4 of 5 rounds, except the judges.
FIRE BRUCE BOCHY NOW!!!!!!
AND TAKE BRIAN SABEAN WITH HIM!!!!!
by 49er16 on Oct 25, 2009 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I had Shogun winning 3 rounds (2, 4, 5).
Most people disagree with me on 1 and 2, but not everyone. And hey, at least I scored it for the legitimate winner.
But I can’t complain, because I won money on the poor decision.
...Behold, a pale horse. The man that sat upon it was Wieters, and hell followed with him.
"BJ on the BE" - Kierkegaard
by Brett Jones on Oct 26, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's a lot of uncomfortable silence on that last point.
I mean, I didn’t have cash on it, but I spent a lot of time telling everyone I know that Shogun didn’t stand a chance, and now it turns out that I’m right? Wrong? Blech.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Oct 26, 2009 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I had Shogun winning 50-45.
Twitter: @FlyByKnite
by FlyByKnight on Oct 25, 2009 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
me too
funniest line taken out of context:
"If you don’t think one (punch) can land with a meow, punch a kitten...."
by themachiavellian on Sep 20, 2009 8:47 PM PDT
by ironic sumo on Oct 25, 2009 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
same, I gave all 5 rounds to Shogun but I could see only giving him 4 rounds…which makes the judges giving him only 2 a complete joke…
good job by me, getting 5 former boxing fans who stopped with that sport years ago because of bullshit, get them to watch their first UFC event and hype it up how its not like boxing and we get that in the main event, they all laughed in my face…
by Reaser16 on Oct 25, 2009 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I only gave Machida the first round, all others were Shogun’s
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 25, 2009 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Same thing here, Nick.
I had no rooting interest going into this thing as I liked both fighters an equal amount. Don’t even remember who I bet fake money on.
Shogun clearly took this fight, though.
I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on Oct 25, 2009 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the first 2 were close but I had shogun winning the last 3
by IRodC on Oct 25, 2009 12:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wait, what happened? According to the article Shogun won. Not “Shogun should have won” but “Shogun won.” What actually happened?
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
by FRANKIE on Oct 25, 2009 12:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Shogun got robbed
"Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity." - Bullet Tooth Tony
@deowade
by Deo Wade on Oct 25, 2009 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that’s what I thought happened. The post was just weird.
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
by FRANKIE on Oct 25, 2009 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The site has it wrong
Shogun lost a b.s. decision to Machida. Shogun clearly beat Lyoto. Those judges should be ashamed of themselves and Dana better award Shogun an instant rematch.
by cdny on Oct 25, 2009 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please stop calling it a robbery
When there are MULTIPLE rounds that could go either way, you can’t sit there and call it a robbery. You may feel Shogun won, and that’s debateable. But you can’t say it’s a BS decision or a robbery. It was a very close fight under 10-point must rules.
Under DREAM/PRIDE scoring I give it to Shogun, under 10-point must I scored it 48-47 for Lyoto getting rounds 1, 2, and 3.
by ACCBiggz on Oct 25, 2009 12:55 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
No it wasn’t close. And the concept of beating the champ is a false one that stemmed from boxers fighting in hometowns with biased crowds. Since Machida nor Shogun are from LA this was neutral territory. Hence why it was a shit decision.
Shogun probably double the strikes landed Machida did
by Hozumi on Oct 25, 2009 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just because you also suck at scoring doesn’t make this any less of a robbery.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Oct 25, 2009 1:04 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
They were even planning Shogun vs. Spider there in Round 5!
by Jason_73 on Oct 25, 2009 12:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Bad decision is bad decision.
FIRE BRUCE BOCHY NOW!!!!!!
AND TAKE BRIAN SABEAN WITH HIM!!!!!
by 49er16 on Oct 25, 2009 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Machida did NOT win more than 1 round
And I don’t even give him any
50-45 Shogun
by Hozumi on Oct 25, 2009 12:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What a fucking travesty…
Its inexcusable to take this away from shogun.
by mmalogic on Oct 25, 2009 12:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Couldn’t agree more.
I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on Oct 25, 2009 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I knew something was fishy when the judges had it 3-2.
by Td9d on Oct 25, 2009 12:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
@@&$$" this
That was the most )&$(&"&);;$&&$((&<€¥*^#}%^€>¥*%¥*^%#<|_][{#<>£+*€¥¥¥€€568&)($&)($&$1234567890 horseshit decision I have ever seen, and I’m officially swearing off mma. Fuck you csac. It’s been nice bloodyelbow, thanks for the
memories.
by judonerd on Oct 25, 2009 12:57 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
Its not as bad a Beebe-Easton
But I also thought shogun decisively won
by IRodC on Oct 25, 2009 12:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It’s worse because this was for Light Heavy Weight Title of the world and on the biggest stage.
by mmalogic on Oct 25, 2009 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Machida is my favourite but how the f@#! did Machida win that...
I’m almost upset for Shogun!
I just didn’t like Machida’s demeanor going in to this fight – I hate when people write fighters off because they look scared or nervous. It makes you that bit stronger and that bit quicker, that’s what cost Machida tonight.
by Ilias on Oct 25, 2009 12:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely heartbreaking...
I was rooting for Machida going into this fight but as the fight went on, I began to realize what I was witnessing. It was a fucking true comeback story being played right before us. It was just this January when Shogun was “done, should retire, had no chance in the division” and yet we were watching this man pick the undefeated Machida apart. The invincible Machida who couldn’t even be touched. Only to be robbed…
What a sad, sad day for MMA.
by zeke21 on Oct 25, 2009 12:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I’m a certified Machida nuthugger, and Shogun got screwed. I hoped Shogun would look great, and he did. Immediate rematch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 25, 2009 12:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I scored it for Machida.
FLAME ME! lol
Really though, I have to go watch this again, I’m not gonna let my Machida love blind me…I’ll be back when I rewatch it.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by kyfm621 on Oct 25, 2009 12:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Man I wanted Machida to win badly, but I had it 48-47 Shogun for sure. I’m gonna have to rewatch this, cause I can’t see how Lyoto won. Congratulations to Shogun for coming back from everything he’s been through. That was Shogun for real.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 25, 2009 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you were hypnotized by Machidaness :P
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 25, 2009 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
machida won
whatever…everybody is caught up i decision robbery madness.
by cagefightonacid on Oct 25, 2009 1:00 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I’m glad I’m not alone.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by kyfm621 on Oct 25, 2009 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
UFC 104 will be talked about for a long time.
FIRE BRUCE BOCHY NOW!!!!!!
AND TAKE BRIAN SABEAN WITH HIM!!!!!
by 49er16 on Oct 25, 2009 1:00 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This was good for me at mmaplayground!!
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
by Warhand on Oct 25, 2009 1:00 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I though I was screwed until the end.
UFC 104=> ben rothwell will UD the shit outta Velasquez.
Not.
by spectaa on Oct 25, 2009 2:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought Machida won
Watch the fight without commentary, you make think of it differently
by JayW on Oct 25, 2009 1:00 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Machida did nothing of note outside of the 3rd round flurry. The commentators were doing nothing but give Lyoto the benefit of the doubt.
by Hozumi on Oct 25, 2009 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll watch it without commentary if you’ll watch it without a bong.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Oct 25, 2009 1:06 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
I watched it without the commentary because it was too loud at my house. Everybody thought Shogun won. Split decision is one thing, but unanimous? No way.
by cyph on Oct 25, 2009 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
15,000 fans watched the fight without commentary live and they were chanting Shoguns name at the end of the fight because they knew he won.
by Jason_73 on Oct 25, 2009 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions 12 recs
Rec’d fucking hard.
I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on Oct 25, 2009 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks Jason_73!!!! REC'D 1000000000000 times!!!!
Everyone has a game plan, untell they get hit.
by mma is #1 on Oct 25, 2009 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hell, if anything the completely biased commentary that made Shogun out to be Jesus Christ made me favor Machida.
...Behold, a pale horse. The man that sat upon it was Wieters, and hell followed with him.
"BJ on the BE" - Kierkegaard
by Brett Jones on Oct 26, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I had Machida winning every round.
Watch this on mute. Joe Rogan would say “wow great leg kick by Shogun” when the the exchange was started by a nasty hit from Machida. I would have felt this was a robbery if they gave it to Shogun. Quit bitching.
by MauiPimpin on Oct 25, 2009 1:01 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
the fans their live dont here ROgan…. why did they think shogun won?
by mmalogic on Oct 25, 2009 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What?
Because you heard people booing? I heard one single person yell “get em joe stevenson!!” its easy to hear people bfd
by MauiPimpin on Oct 25, 2009 1:10 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
They used their eyes to see what happened during the fight.
...Behold, a pale horse. The man that sat upon it was Wieters, and hell followed with him.
"BJ on the BE" - Kierkegaard
by Brett Jones on Oct 26, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which is harder than using your sense of "Oh, Machida is unstoppable" but slightly more accurate.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Oct 26, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
Most of Machida’s punches were blocked by Shogun. All rounds for Machida? That doesn’t even make sense
by Hozumi on Oct 25, 2009 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Leg kicks are worth an entire fight now?
Early in the fight Rogan was saying “WOW!!!!!!! Look at machidas ribs!!!!!” and all i could think was “what? Look at Shoguns you fucking moron”. This is far from a robbery. Machida controlled from the opening frame and took only some leg and rib kicks. All of the strikes that mattered were to the head and were from Machida.
by MauiPimpin on Oct 25, 2009 1:13 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
What commentary were you listening to, Lyoto’s dad’s?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Oct 25, 2009 1:17 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Cain Velasquez won
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
by Warhand on Oct 25, 2009 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We’re still in the machida era, no worries.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by kyfm621 on Oct 25, 2009 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the Machida era
has now become a myth, sorry :P
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 25, 2009 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The is a problem with an easy solution: immediate rematch.
by Jahbulon on Oct 25, 2009 1:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
They have to schedule an immediate rematch, don’t they?
FIRE BRUCE BOCHY NOW!!!!!!
AND TAKE BRIAN SABEAN WITH HIM!!!!!
by 49er16 on Oct 25, 2009 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fuck that!
Shogun works hard to win the current fight and trains his brazilian ass off for it, and now he gets robbed and has to repeat that performance again?! Not cool on any level.
by FtureChamp on Oct 25, 2009 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But they can’t reverse the decision, I’ll be happy with a rematch, I’m sure Shogun would too
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 25, 2009 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again people... Robbery? look it up.
by Anton Tabuena on Oct 25, 2009 1:02 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I looked up robbery in the dictionary and they had a picture of Lyoto with the belt.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Oct 25, 2009 1:09 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 4 recs
Lol. I looked up at robbery, and oddly enough, it didn’t make the slightest difference about anything.
UFC 104=> ben rothwell will UD the shit outta Velasquez.
Not.
by spectaa on Oct 25, 2009 2:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
More like receiving stolen property, don't you think?
by asa on Oct 25, 2009 6:49 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
True. It’s not Lyoto’s fault that Nelson Hamilton, Marcos Rosales and, of course, Cecil Peoples are incompetent.
Lyoto did enough to convince three blind men that he was victorious. It’s not his fault the men are blind.
...Behold, a pale horse. The man that sat upon it was Wieters, and hell followed with him.
"BJ on the BE" - Kierkegaard
by Brett Jones on Oct 26, 2009 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe from their angle looking into the Octagon they couldn't see the leg kicks?
I mean, with their heads up their asses and all.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Oct 26, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m wondering if they just perceived the fade-away punches Lyoto was throwing as superior to the leg kicks?
by asa on Oct 26, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
But according to FM, they weren’t landing. And since we’ve appointed them the holy priests of MMA, there’s no arguing that. :-)
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Oct 26, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
While I agree that Shogun looked awesome….I think that there were alot of strikes landed by Machida that escaped alot of peoples attention. Yes Shogun landed nasty ass leg kicks, but Machida landed alot of strikes himself. I want to see the fightmetric breakdown myself.
by soadtrails on Oct 25, 2009 1:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, Im glad someone proved my theory that you can attack Machida’s legs. My friends all did shotokan and whenever they would lean back, the took their weight off the front leg to keep their balance. It just hung there and I would tee off. Throw high to get them leaning, inside leg kick. Bam.
by ryanwk628 on Oct 25, 2009 1:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I thought Bisping/Hamill was a bad decision
This one is just retarded. Machida won’t be able to walk for a week.
by pl4tinum on Oct 25, 2009 1:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Announcers Influence
I think the announcers influence a lot of people’s thought process. Goldberg repeatedly stated that “you could make the case that Shogun has won every round.” While you could make that case, you could also make the case that Machida won the first three rounds because they were so close. When it’s that close, it’s only human to give the champ the nod. Not saying it’s right or wrong, but combined with Shogun finishing strong and the announcers being all over him, it tends to make things seem worse than they really are.
by Kilmer on Oct 25, 2009 1:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You could make the case that Lyoto won the first three rounds? Really?
Then go ahead.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Oct 25, 2009 1:11 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Let make it for you.
Machida won the first three rounds. The judges agree. That was easy.
Seriously, this is insane. My brother and I both were suprised as fuck by the announcing during the fight and hes a Shogun fan. Leg kicks and, literally, nothing else dont win you the ufc lhw championship. Be real man this shit is stupid as fuck.
by MauiPimpin on Oct 25, 2009 1:19 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
“Be a man”? What?
Dude, I’m sorry that you and the judges are on a different planet from the rest of us, but that’s crazy talk.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Oct 25, 2009 1:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I said be real man.
Not “be a man”. Reading comprehension is your friend. I understand you are bummed your dude lost but the fact is this: your dude lost. A legitimate decision.
by MauiPimpin on Oct 25, 2009 1:27 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Dude. You don’t know me. Drop the attitude.
I was rooting for Machida, but he lost. And I can admit that.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Oct 25, 2009 1:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can’t play that card here, this place was 99% pro machida coming into this fight.
UFC 104=> ben rothwell will UD the shit outta Velasquez.
Not.
by spectaa on Oct 25, 2009 2:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Indeed. By his definition, a “real man” would just accept that even though the fighter he was rooting for lost the fight, he has to stick up for him and pretend that it’s okay that he won the decision.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Oct 25, 2009 2:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Read the post again....
he said be real man, as in this shit is getting stupid. Not telling you to be a real man. But I guess you can tell him he has an attitude but it’s ok for you to tell people to put down the bong.
by soadtrails on Oct 25, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, the bong thing was a joke - tell me you got that, yes?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Oct 26, 2009 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is true
I’m a witness!
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 25, 2009 2:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Evidently.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
by jemaleddin on Oct 25, 2009 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if what you say is true then rampage jackon would still be champ…..
funniest line taken out of context:
"If you don’t think one (punch) can land with a meow, punch a kitten...."
by themachiavellian on Sep 20, 2009 8:47 PM PDT
by ironic sumo on Oct 25, 2009 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Eh, don't go there. Rampage should've still been champ...
Leg kicks alone do not equal victory. In this case, Shogun worked the legs and the body, and yeah I thought he won too…
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 25, 2009 2:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
kicks to the leg and body is what secured Jardine’s victory over Liddell
Yes, time flies. And where did it leave you? Old too soon...smart too late. - Mike Tyson
by lovingmma25 on Oct 25, 2009 2:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah but Shogun’s ribs and legs were beat up as well, and Shogun barely landed a punch the entire fight. I actually thought Shogun won by a slim margin until I watched it again. Half the kicks I thought landed were actually blocked, checked or just foot slaps. Lyoto won rounds 1 and 3 for sure. 2 was even, 4 was Shogun’s by a little, and 5 was obviously Shogun’s. No travesty here.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 25, 2009 3:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, after seeing some peoples comments, I know I must not be crazy. Round 1-3 was Machida’s.
P.S. Watched in a bar, could barely hear commentary.
Now f@ck this, whats up with Dream?
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by kyfm621 on Oct 25, 2009 1:05 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
were you drinking too much?
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 25, 2009 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This was a fucked up event… First Steve Mazzagati fucks up as usual and then this bullshit.
by mmalogic on Oct 25, 2009 1:06 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Get word to Dana that he needs to try to make things right with Big John, the UFC, and the commissions.
Enough of these shitty fucking stoppages.
I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on Oct 25, 2009 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Commentary was horrid
If you listened to commentary you’d have thought Shogun dominated everything. It was a CLOSE fight. Way too many times hearing “great kick, punch, knee” when it was blocked, checked, or missed entirely. Under 10-point must it was close… under PRIDE/DREAM scoring it was easy Shogun.
by ACCBiggz on Oct 25, 2009 1:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
TO ALL THOSE SAYING MMA IS TURNING INTO BOXING
i disagree.. is say what with the Kimbo show on spikeTV and this robbery, it’s turning into pro wrestling.
by kanodogg on Oct 25, 2009 1:07 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
The first two rounds were close but the last three were clearly Shogun’s. Hell I had Shogun winning every round but the first one. This was the worst decision I’ve ever seen from the UFC. Shogun dominated the vast majority of the fight, clearly inflicted more damage. Hell an immediate rematch should be tomorrow morning as Machida was limping out of the cage and Shogun could have gone another three rounds..
by ChrisBat on Oct 25, 2009 1:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I had the third round being close, with Machida stealing it at the end with his flurry. Again, early rounds were debateable. Shogun clearly won 4 and 5 however.
And here is another point I have tried to make: This is good for the UFC. Who are the other contenders? People who have recently lost like Rashad. Set up an immediate rematch for Spring 2010 and this gives division time to sort itself out and produce clear challengers. This is an easy fight to sell.
by ACCBiggz on Oct 25, 2009 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah, Machida won the third...
Shogun won 2,4 and 5. I gave round one to Machida, but it was basically a draw.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 25, 2009 2:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m going to swear off MMA sites because of the neverending vomit that will ensue.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by kyfm621 on Oct 25, 2009 1:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The live crowd didn't hear the commentary
And they were chanting Shoguns name for a reason following that fight.
by Jason_73 on Oct 25, 2009 1:09 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
and booing the judges decision! they each knew who really won that fight
Machida is a god
I now drink my urine daily
by orcus on Oct 25, 2009 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everybody but the judges knew who won that fight
"Did you feel you did well against Lindland?" "
Hell no.. I wanted to break the law"
---Rampage
by TearsofaClown on Oct 25, 2009 1:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I had it 49-46 Shogun…..if you said 49-47 or 48-47 Shogun…no complaints. But I did not see him losing three rounds in that fight. He controlled the pace and did more damage. By no means did he blow Machida away in any given round, but he won three out of the five. I’m a huge Machida fan and still yelled “WTF?” when they announced the winner.
The live crowd didn’t hear any commentary, and they sure seemed to think it was Shogun’s fight.
Hell….even Machida looked surprised when they announced the decision.
by McEwen on Oct 25, 2009 1:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It was really irritating that Joe was all over Shogun for kicking when at the same time Machida was countering with a punch a lot of times.
by trg6863 on Oct 25, 2009 1:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I’ll have to watch it again, but while I agree that a lot of Shogun’s kicks weren’t extended or landing that powerfully, some of those Machida straights were blocked by Shogun. A lot of Shogun’s kicks really smacked, which as Rogan loves to tell us, is indicative of a glancing shot. But still, there weren’t three rounds where Machida did more damage, and Shogun landed more strikes in every round but the first. And I was rooting for Machida.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 25, 2009 2:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sports entertainment, indeed.
I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on Oct 25, 2009 1:11 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Agreed..
They need to replace the Goldberg/Rogan team…they are just annoying as hell. Rogan is getting worse and worse..and Goldberg just doesn’t have a clue. Shogun was way too cautious…and somehow that cost him. He didn’t take the belt..but I still can’t see him losing that fight.
by Koob on Oct 25, 2009 1:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I love machida, but the people who think he won more than a single round need to clean the crust out of their eyes. In a 5 round fight, he had less than 60 secs of action where he was winning. Shogun was on fire. He out-countrstruck the counterstriker, never got swept, landed more strikes, did more damage, controlled the cage and always came forward. Shogun won that fight, and until he has the belt that he deserves around his waist, I ain’t watching a damn match. Not even free wec.
by judonerd on Oct 25, 2009 1:13 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
Honestly, it was a really close fight. I wasn’t keeping score.
'Ello G'vnor!
by IHateMMA on Oct 25, 2009 1:14 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I thought it was 48-47 Machida and from what little i could hear over the noise it sounded like Joe Rogan was enjoying the taste of Shogun’s testicles
by bla10cow on Oct 25, 2009 1:14 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Machida is my fav fighter, he lost the fight. I had it 49-46, feel bad for shogun. Def think rematch is necessary, and hopefully machida learns how to protect his legs, and maybe throw a few more legs kicks of his own.
by bloodyhellbow on Oct 25, 2009 1:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Bas Rutten vs Rogan in cage match
Winner gets the commentators seat and first dibs on dropping Goldie out of a window.
by Koob on Oct 25, 2009 1:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I’ll take a Bas – Rogan commentator team, but Rogan has to stay no matter what.
'Ello G'vnor!
by IHateMMA on Oct 25, 2009 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The sad thing is we just witnessed an awesome physical chess match and it was shit on by this dumbass decision.
by mmalogic on Oct 25, 2009 1:19 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Terrible way to reward such hard work from both fighters.
I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on Oct 25, 2009 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For the utter technical standup of this fight, I would personally put this as a FOTY candidate just for how amazing the technical standup was. This wasn’t rock em sock em robots here, but just patience and calculated strikes to the point where every strike thrown was important. I honestly have not seen a fight as technically sound as this one as far as standup is concerned.
by chrisbboy82 on Oct 25, 2009 4:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I loved the fight actually..
they should’ve gotten the bonus but i think the stupid crowd, and the controversy may have affected their decision..
by Anton Tabuena on Oct 25, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
UWC signs Shogun
The UWC will announce their signing of Shogun. He’s gonna fight Antwain Britt, and lose.
by wandyman on Oct 25, 2009 1:27 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This is bullshit
Luke, can you please do the same set of articles you did for Virginia/Easton-Beebe but this time Cali/Rua-Machida? We need to get this overturned. Fuck this. I am so pissed off. I am livid.
by TDITZ on Oct 25, 2009 1:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Machida won Rounds 1, 2 and 3
The live audience cheered Rua because he ended the fight on a winning note, dominating Rounds 4 and 5.
But an objective round by round scoring has to give the fight to Machida 48-47.
For the record, I watched in bar with the commentary inaudible.
by klown on Oct 25, 2009 1:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I can’t determine if Machida definitively won rounds 1 and 2 and felt those two rounds could have gone either way, but I think Rua’s case for winning the fight was raised because he finished stronger by the end of the fight (the last two rounds to be exact) and also seemed to have figured out the Machida puzzle.
by chrisbboy82 on Oct 25, 2009 4:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
did everyone just lose a bet?
you want to give him points for failed takedown attempts? you expect the judges to give points for power shots when you’ve seen that they don’t for last 100 events? wat’s wrong with you people?
i can see it going either way, but to claim it’s a robbery is ridiculous, i think you guys are just upset you lost money and your ability to predict upsets didn’t come to fruition
by Nikolai_ on Oct 25, 2009 2:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Not really, I won a lot with this ROBBERY bad decision.
UFC 104=> ben rothwell will UD the shit outta Velasquez.
Not.
by spectaa on Oct 25, 2009 2:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Robbery? I’m inclined to say it was a noticeably bad decision, in my opinion. I’ll admit that I was leaning toward classifying it as a robbery in the moments after the decision was announced for Machida to retain his title. But the statistics nerd in me wanted to see what the fight stats were. Knowing that Fight Metric and Compustrike probably won’t have the stats available until tomorrow or Monday, I decided to rewatch the fight (with the sounds off) to score landed strikes (since this was almost exclusively a standup battle). When I orignially watched this fight, I had it 4 rounds to 1. The only round I gave Machida was round 3. I did think a couple of early rounds were close but it seems obvious that Shogun won. I do want to share my findings with you, though, from my second viewing of the fight. And keep in mind that I’m, admittedly, not an authority on scoring landed shots. I think my numbers, however, won’t be too far from the stats that get officially released:
Landed Blows:
Round 1- Rua-13; Machida- 9 (I still think that Rua won this round, though it was a competitive round)
Round 2- Rua-13; Machida- 11 (I can definitely see someone scoring this for Machida; I’m unsure who won this one, to be honest. Rua eeked out a statistical advantage basically because of landed knees in the clinch against the fence which seemed more impressive the first time I watched the fight, but less so the second time. I could see this as a Machida round, partly because his connect % was definitely higher. Possibly a draw?)
Round 3- Rua- 12; Machida- 15 (Machida’s best round. I gave this round to him the first time I watched the fight and I gave it to him the second time as well.)
Round 4- Rua- 8; Machida- 4 (The action really seemed to slow in this round. Frankly I didn’t think either fighter did much at all. A round for Rua most likely.)
Round 5- Rua-14; Machida- 7 (Rua’s best round, arguably.)
Totals- Rua-60; Machida- 46
Average Round Stats- Rua-12; Machida- 9.2
The first time I watched the fight I scored it 4 rounds to 1 for Rua. The second time I watched it I leaned toward either 3 rounds to 2 or 3 rounds to 1 with a draw round.
A couple of points of possible interest: Shogun seemed to do a little more damage to Machida so I think a judge has to give him an edge there. Conversely, when these stats come out I think you’ll see a noticable edge for Machida in efficiency. I noticed a lot more misses by Shogun and blows that didn’t land cleanly than I did during the first viewing of this fight. So here’s the thing: If the numbers above are close to being accurate, plus if Machida has a healthy edge in connect %, I still would argue that Machida won. But could it still be classified a robbery? I don’t think so. I save that term for the Holyfield-Lewis decisions of the world. I’m not sure this qualifies.But I know that emotions are pretty high right now because of the bad decision. And I won’t argue that Lyoto won this one because I don’t believe that he did.
by SlickRick00 on Oct 25, 2009 2:10 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Machida is my favorite fighter, but even I thought that he lost. However, I do agree with you that it was NOT a robbery (but very close to one). Rounds one and two according to the number of strikes thrown would show that Rua won those rounds, but it doesn’t show how damaging these blows are. Rounds one and two COULD have gone either way, and I definitely gave Machida round three. However, it surprises me greatly that NONE of the judges gave Rua round one or two, but gave him ONLY rounds 4 and 5 (most likely at least). This fight definitely needs multiple viewings to really see what happened.
by chrisbboy82 on Oct 25, 2009 4:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is a fight where judges should have a backbone and realize that 10-10 rounds are allowed.
Twitter: @FlyByKnite
by FlyByKnight on Oct 25, 2009 4:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The need for 10-10 rounds in MMA is growing. However, there needs a very clear criteria for 10-10 rounds before seeing them more commonly.
by chrisbboy82 on Oct 25, 2009 4:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
stats
I agree with you on the decision, but don’t put too much faith in the stats, and it’s funny as hell you bring up the Holyfield-Lewis fight…everybody and their mother knew who won that fight (Lewis, of course, and I was a Holyfield fan) , and I watched it again later that week….but the punchstat numbers actually had Lewis landing more punches than he threw…haven’t payed much attention to them since then….maybe they got better at it….?
by Warhog on Oct 25, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
..
Seriously the first paragraph of this article is pure quality. Thanks Luke.
Shogun 4 rounds to 1..
by moreofmyself on Oct 25, 2009 8:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I could see a 4 to 1 scoring. However anyone saw it, 4-1 or 3-2, Shogun deserves to be wearing the belt, in my opinion.
by SlickRick00 on Oct 25, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True Champ
Gotta agree on this one, although the rounds I gave Shogun where 2, 4 and 5.
Agressor : Shogun
Most Damage Inflicted : Shogun
Attempts to Finish : Shogun
Don’t get me wrong, I think the rounds were close enough to keep it competitive but hell, I even had Shogun landing more strikes…rematch on the way….
by Warhog on Oct 25, 2009 4:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Joe and G
oh, but Joe and Golberg where definitely doin’ the biased commentary thing…just had 2 tune ’em out…
by Warhog on Oct 25, 2009 4:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Cheers
Anybody notice the crowd was initially for Machida….sure didn’t turn out that way…
by Warhog on Oct 25, 2009 4:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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