How Anderson Silva Ruined the Middleweight Division
by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 21, 2009 1:07 PM EDT
in MMA News
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It wasn't that long ago that the middleweight division had once again began to pick up steam. Sure, Anderson Silva was still the clear top dog but Dan Henderson had re-established himself as a legitimate threat to any fighter on the planet, Nate Marquardt became a more complete fighter, and Vitor Belfort was only a win over Rich Franklin away from putting himself in line for a title shot. And this doesn't even get into guys like Demian Maia who are "down the road" potential challengers or Yushin Okami who just needed to stay healthy and pick up a couple wins.
Of course then everything went to hell. Anderson Silva and manager Ed Soares made it clear that they weren't interested in fighting Marquardt or Henderson until one defeated the other in a title eliminator. On the other side of the fence was Hendo himself who made it clear that he was the number one contender and had no interest in fighting a title eliminator against Nate. As it became more and more obvious that the UFC wanted Anderson to get in the ring with one of the two men (thereby not ruining another potential challenger with an eliminator bout) news came out that Anderson Silva had undergone elbow surgery. To MMA conspiracy theorists this did seem like a nice way to force the UFC into a title eliminator between Nate and Dan while the champ recovered.
Of course, a few days later when talk of a potential Randy Couture/Anderson Silva bout started making the rounds out came Ed Soares to clarify that no, Anderson did not go under the knife and was perfectly willing to take a fight with Randy Couture.
Because the story couldn't possibly have enough wrinkles the news then came out that Dan Henderson was, in fact, now a free agent. This put Hendo in the driver's seat. He wanted the title shot but if he wasn't going to get it he was going to demand top shelf pay to take on Marquardt. As it became clear that the Henderson fight wasn't going to be forced on him Anderson went public stating that he was "200% healthy" and wanted to fight Frank Mir and challenge himself at heavyweight.
With the Mir fight clearly not happening Vitor Belfort blazed into the title picture with a knockout of Rich Franklin at 195 pounds. It was all but a sure thing that a win in the fight cemented Belfort a shot at Anderson Silva's middleweight championship. Sure enough, on September 25 the LA Times announced that the two men agreed to fight at UFC 108. This led to Dan Henderson complaining that he beat Belfort back in PRIDE and once again saying he should be getting the title shot. During all of this the UFC and Dan drifter further apart on the contract negotiations to the point where Dana White has basically announced that the talk of a new deal is dead.
Regardless of where Henderson was at least we had Belfort/Silva for the belt to look forward to. Not so fast. Silva and Soares were quick to jump out and start claiming that Vitor was not worthy of a title shot and that the true challenger should still be the winner of the fantasy Marquardt vs. Hendo match-up. Not only do they not feel that Belfort earned a shot at the belt, but the previously "200% healthy" Silva DID end up having elbow surgery and now that was turning into a possible factor that would prevent the fight from happening. In talking down Belfort they are also breaking one of the golden rules of fight promotion by making it look like the challenger didn't earn his shot. It works for a guy like Lesnar because that is a part of his mystique, but it can significantly damage a fight's drawing power when the challenger is framed as not being deserving and probably being third or fourth in line for the shot to begin with.
So now we went from a division brimming with potentially huge fights and legitimate challengers to Silva/Belfort which may not happen because of the elbow which seems to always be hurt when Anderson doesn't like the fight he has been offered, Dan Henderson seemingly out of the UFC, and Nate Marquardt in limbo.
But hey, at least Hendo is free to go be the one legitimate challenger to Gegard Mousasi's Strikeforce light heavyweight belt...right? Well, only if the money is right for Gegard:
I personally wouldn’t like to fight him, because if I fight a high-calibre fighter like Dan Henderson or a bum I would get paid the same, so there isn’t any motivation to fight a better fighter – although for the right money I would fight even Godzilla.
It's hard to completely fault Anderson for his actions. As Mike Fagan pointed out fighters need to make decisions that maximize their pay. And yes, he has ran through everyone placed in front of him. But it's still hard not to see Silva as the finger that nudges the first domino. Now we just wait to see if his elbow will keep him from fighting at 108, or if he'll be finding ways to smash it into Vitor's dome.
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Anderson Silva and Ed Soares are smart. Anybody who would waste his last 2 fights on bouts that would pay less is stupid. Anderson cleaned out the division, sans Okami. He deserves to fight the fights that line his wallet.
Sorry, bit POST too soon.
Anyways, from where I’m sitting Anderson isn’t doing anything wrong. The fight with Vitor WILL happen on January 2nd. If Zuffa has it’s way, after GSP beats Swick/Hardy we’ll get the superfight in Vancouver along with the second fan expo.
by TheAlphaNerd on Oct 21, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep, and its DW’s fault for letting Andy fight outside his division. DW can make Andy fight whoever the UFC puts in front of him, but he also liked the idea of having Marquardt vs Hendo (I think this had more to do with the contracts negotiation than what the spider wanted). Ultimately the UFC has the final say on things, people take it out on the Spider but it’s really the UFC’s fault.
SHOGUN WILL SLAY THE DRAGON!!!
SHOGUN TO BE THE NEW LHW CHAMP!!!
The UFC can’t force anyone to fight anyone else.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
You're missing the point
it’s ALWAYS Dana’s fault. Facts are irrelevant.
by Shaun32887 on Oct 21, 2009 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Why do people still think GSP/Spider is going to happen? Anderson is a solid 30 lbs bigger than GSP. There is zero incentive for St Pierre to take the fight. Unlike, Silva, he knows he’s a big enough draw on his own and perfectly willing to keep crushing everyone at his weight class.
Because Dana said so. He said it point blank at the Expo at UFC 100. This is the fight they want in Vancouver. Things might change depending on Silva’s contract, if he deciedes to leave. All I know is what Dana said on the live mic.
by TheAlphaNerd on Oct 21, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldnt say GSP balked… He did say he was open to it, if he gained some weight, but there were UFC executives around against that was already against that matchup
by The Bronzeville Bully on Oct 21, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it’s funny a couple years ago GSP was all about moving to 85 and then 205 but then came that right hand of Serra’s
Turns out that even little guys can hit HARD.
And nobody, no matter what they say, likes getting hit that hard.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
How Anderson Silva Ruined the Middleweight Division
by kicking everybody’s asses! :P
SHOGUN WILL SLAY THE DRAGON!!!
SHOGUN TO BE THE NEW LHW CHAMP!!!
by Orcus on Oct 21, 2009 1:17 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Exactly...
The only one to blame for this is the REST of the middleweight division. Blame Hendo, Marquardt and the rest for being so far behind.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 21, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Silva is duckinig
Vitor Belfort, period the end. Its true. This is a great article and I am myself getting tired of Silva’s diva BS. He is the best fighter but he is also a huge ass.
by GoldmedalGrappling on Oct 21, 2009 1:20 PM EDT reply actions
MAYBE...
the elbow is a real factor for postponement right now.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 21, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Soares and DW have confirmed he’ll be fighting for sure come January though
SHOGUN WILL SLAY THE DRAGON!!!
SHOGUN TO BE THE NEW LHW CHAMP!!!
Have they?
Last I heard was:
“It’s doctor’s decision,” he added in English. “My elbow is hurt, but doctor Chad says come back to training, come back to fight.”
On Wednesday, the champion is scheduled to begin physical therapy after getting his surgery stitches removed. Soares says a decision on Silva’s fight-readiness will be made in 10 days.
We haven’t hit the 10 day mark and I haven’t heard anything since.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 21, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
I am still hearing that its possible for Silva / Belfort to be called off
d00d.
The way Silva has went about everything. I see it as a no go.
by GoldmedalGrappling on Oct 21, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
damn
I thought I read somewhere Soare’s saying he would be clear to fight by January, but I can’t find it. I must be crazy :P
SHOGUN WILL SLAY THE DRAGON!!!
SHOGUN TO BE THE NEW LHW CHAMP!!!
I think it was one of his trainers
He said that Silva would definitely be ready to go, but that hasn’t been confirmed.
And Vitor ducked Gegard. Does that make Gegard>Anderson?
by John Nash on Oct 21, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Makes Mousasi>Vitor, would love to see Gegard vs Silva.
"Did you feel you did well against Lindland?" "
Hell no.. I wanted to break the law"
---Rampage
by TearsofaClown on Oct 21, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d like to see Gegard beat a relevant LHW first. Problem is, he doesn’t get paid enough to even attempt that lol. That’s ambition for ya!
by Razzel on Oct 21, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And Gegard is ducking Hendo. Hendo>all?
by dancingChicken on Oct 22, 2009 4:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I'm sure Anderson's up late worrying whether VITOR BELFORT is going to knock on his door...
Get a grip sir, Anderson justs wants to fight guys that have a chance, and where he can make better money. I’m all for seeing how Vitor will lose, or how Hendo or Marquardt will lose again, but really, the only one to blame for any of this are all these fighters who can’t even approach Anderson’s level.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 21, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
co-sign
Check out my recent MMA drawings on my blog, drop a comment, or subscribe via RSS for updates http://www.scritchandscratch.com/blog/?tag=mma
by VeeisAnimated on Oct 21, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
hahahahaahahahahahahaaaa....
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
why so much laughter. No one is even close to silva in the Middleweight division. and i think the only LHW thats better is machida.
No, no,
I’m laughing at the “ducking Belfort” nonsense. He can’t be ducking somebody he’s fighting.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
I personally think Silva has all the right in the world to demand those fighters square off and see who is the real contender.
Your idea of the ruining the class is based on anyone who “might” be able to fight Silva should be able to. But in the real world, you need to have a run of wins against current contenders, and Belfort is no that person (unless hes back on the roids and HGH).
You mean like after Silva spent three rounds beating the last bits of sense outta Lee Murray’s head, then finishing Fryklund with a reverse elbow and blowing everyone’s mind?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 21, 2009 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions
NOT in the UFC, buddy. Notice, he didn't say Cage Rage.
If you use that logic, then Vitor KOed Martin and Lindland, much better than Fryklund and Murray respectvely.
The difference is in the performances themselves, and the long consistent track record Anderson built from Shooto, through Pride and Cage Rage, right into the UFC. So no, I didn’t mind Rampage getting a quick shot, or Hendo getting two in a row, cause their track record before hand made the case for them with no doubt, same as Anderson. I’m actually not against Vitor getting a shot. To me he’s the best option since Anderson’s never faced him. But I’m not pretending Vitor’s last few years are comparable to Anderson’s pre-UFC career, either. If Anderson hadn’t already cleaned out the middleweights, Belfort wouldn’t be getting this shot. And Martin and Lindland aren’t much better than Fryklund and Murray, just barely better.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 21, 2009 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions
It seems to me that there is a new universal fighter mentality that is more resistant to promotional match-making and a severe lack of fighters that will fight “anyone-anytime”. I love me some Anderson Silva— but I wish he would go back to how he felt a little over a year ago and want as many fights as possible. It’s not like he’s incurring any damage..
I STILL poop rainbows.
Its money man.
He only has 2 fights left on this contract. Why take less money than you potentially could?
He got a family, he doesnt fight for free. You also know Dana would do the same thing.
by Jesse Taylor on Oct 21, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I so sick of this “he’s got to support his family”. These guys are MILLIONAIRES already. They’ve got all the cash they will ever need to support a family. They want to get paid, fine, but just say they want the damn money. It’s well past the point where they need to worry about making their car note this month.
You have no idea what Silva’s finances are. Nor is it any of your business to tell someone how much money they should or shouldn’t be making.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on Oct 21, 2009 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I’m not telling him how much money to make. I’m all for these guys getting as much cash as they can. Fine, super. I would do the same.
But cut the “it’s so my kids can eat bullshit”. Not at Anderson Silva’s level. He wants to get paid cause he wants lots of money. GREAT! But don’t try to dress a millionaire negotiating for more millions in the clothing of some guy grinding a paycheck to support his family. It’s just not the same.
How Anderson Silva Ruined the Middleweight Division
Thanks Brent for officially saying it. I understand the game that Silva is playing, but at the same time, as a fan, I long for more champs like GSP. Guys that will fight whoever is put in front of them. I also love champs like Machida, who seem to appreciate everything they have. Don’t get me wrong, Silva has earned the right to try to get the best pay day possible, but at the same time, as a fan, I am severely disappointed by his actions.
I love me some Sexyama!
I don’t get this logic. St. Pierre has fought twice this year. Anderson has fought twice this year. In 2008 Anderson fought 3 times and St. Pierre fought twice. In 2007 they both fought 3 times in one year. So how is GSP fighting all comers and A. Silva not?
by flickgrifter on Oct 21, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he is more talking about how GSP will fight anyone without complaining, while Silva is trying to pick and choose who he fights and will voice his opinion if he feels that the man he is not deserving.
"Did you feel you did well against Lindland?" "
Hell no.. I wanted to break the law"
---Rampage
by TearsofaClown on Oct 21, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
GSP has a deeper division, and has just now come close to clearing it out. We’ll see what he does when his PPV buys drop because he’s fighting nobody’s.
The other difference is at Anderson Silva is very close to retirement, GSP is not.
I don’t get it. Fighters shouldn’t voice their opinion on anything according to you.
by scrambledeggs on Oct 21, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Everyone has a right to voice their opinions, but what Anderson is doing is beyond voicing his opinion. What Anderson is doing is strictly going for the big payday. It’s not about the competition. It’s just about the money, and he’s not above playing games to get his way, including throwing temper tantrums in the cage. His quest for big bucks is something I can respect since I am a working stiff myself, but as a fan, I see him messing up the division for personal gain. I made that distinction clear. From a fan perspective, Silva’s antics bothers the crap out of me.
I love me some Sexyama!
I love people won’t blink twice when Dana pulls a power play, but the second fighters start getting uppity, sports as business becomes a foreign concept.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Yeah…Silva wants bigger names and tougher guys. What a complainer!
by MickDawg on Oct 21, 2009 4:03 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Name some guys tougher than Randy Couture, Frank Mir, Henderson, Marquardt, Belfort….all of whom Anderson has agreed could be in his future plans. Nothing debatable at all. The guy gets pissed when they give him lesser opponents like Cote or Leites. Time for everyone else to, oh I don’t know, get way better so they won’t look like a joke in the ring against him…Brock has been in the sport for a year and a half, and probably makes 5 times what Anderson makes, though he’s the best fighter in the world. I can see him wanting to make more money, as there isn’t anything left for him to prove in the ring. He’ll be fighting these guys, but he tries to play some hardball in negotiating his salary, and people flip out, and immediately turn on him again.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 21, 2009 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Pay that man his money!
He should be headling mega events against big big names at this point. I’;m sick of seeing him fight guys that have no right to be in the same cage as him.
I want to see him fighting Rampage, Machida, Brock, Wandy. At least guys that present an intimidating image that we can get behind before the fight.
I want some juice here!
they’re not going to put hm near any more 205 contenders if he’s not going to fight Machida, then he will have ruined 2 divisions.
I blame this guy.
(Hey Anderson, you see that cute blonde in the 2nd row? Yeah, Im gonna need that “I fuck on the first date shirt”)
SHOGUN WILL SLAY THE DRAGON!!!
SHOGUN TO BE THE NEW LHW CHAMP!!!
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Oct 21, 2009 1:30 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
This is getting old
I say we treat them like a child who acts out just for attention and ignore them.
Lyoto Machida is fighting this weekend, should be an amazing fight, lets be happy and think about that.
True...
how easy would it be for Machida to say “Shogun hasn’t earned it” but he just went for it
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 21, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
It wouldn't be easy at all...
Shogun has been fighting at 205 was the previous champ and just knocked out the most popular mma fighter in north america…
besides this will only be Machidas first time defending his belt…I can’t remember how many times Anderson’s defended his…
Six times: Lutter, Marquardt, Franklin, Henderson, Cote, Leites
I know people think I have some anti-Anderson agenda. It really isn’t that…he is an amazing fighter.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 21, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Well after being a 6X UFC Middleweight Champion he deserves to have some say in fighting guys that he has already not only fought but finished…
He’ll fight January…against Vitor, then Marquardt and hopefully he will retire after beating GSP.
Though that's a silly distinction
…and you know it. I mean, Silva showed up on weight, expected to be defending his belt, and submitted a guy who was heavier and supposedly had a better ground game.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
Who might say?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
time to bite the bullet
and pay Hendo serious money.
Andersons next fight is Vitor whether he wants to do it on Jan 2nd or later that’s up to him…
All this sore elbow bullshit (he did get surgery but he can def. be ready for this fight) is not just about not wanting to fight Vitor.
THEY WANT TO SEE WHO ELSE IS ON THE CARD FIRST. They know Silva isnt a draw so not only are they trying to pick the “right” opponents but they are also trying to pick the right “cards” to fight on.
I dont think he’s going to pass up main eventing a NYE show though… especially since his other option wont be much better. By the end of the week we’ll probably hear that his doctor “gave him the go ahead”.
Anderson is becoming a little bitch… and his bald side kick needs to shut the fuck up about matchmaking.
Silva is not a draw, this is 100% true.
Has anybody else ever noticed the majority of his fights are right after a big PPV with a big buyrate?
by TheAlphaNerd on Oct 21, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
UFC 102 – 435,000 (Couture vs. Nogueira)
UFC 101 – 850,000 (A. Silva vs. Griffin)
UFC 100 – 1,720,000 (Lesnar vs. Mir II) – new record
UFC 99 – 360,000 (Franklin vs. W. Silva)
UFC 98 – 635,000 (Evans vs. Machida)
UFC 97 – 625,000 (A. Silva vs. Leites)
UFC 96 – 350,000 (Jackson vs. Jardine)
UFC 95 – free TV (Sanchez vs. Stenveson)
UFC 94 – 800,000 (St. Pierre vs. Penn)
UFC 93 – 320,000 (Henderson vs. Franklin)
UFC 92 – 1,200,000 (Griffin vs. Evans) – new record
UFC 91 – 1,010,000 (Couture vs. Lesnar)
UFC 90 – 300,000 (A. Silva vs. Cote)
UFC 89 – free TV (Bisping vs. Leben)
UFC 88 – 640,000 (Liddell vs. Evans)
UFC 87 – 625,000 (Lesnar vs. Herring)
UFC 86 – 520,000 (Jackson vs. Griffin)
UFC 85 – 225,000 (Hughes vs. Alves)
UFC 84 – 475,000 (Penn vs. Sherk)
UFC 83 – 525,000 (St. Pierre vs. Serra II)
UFC 82 – 325,000 (Silva vs. Henderson)
UFC 81 – 650,000 (Lesnar vs. Mir)
UFC 80 – 225,000 (Penn vs. Stevenson)
UFC 79 – 600,000 (Liddell vs. W. Silva)
UFC 78 – 400,000 (Bisping vs. Evans)
UFC 77 – 325,000 (A. Silva vs. Franklin II)
UFC 76 – 450,000 (Liddell vs. Jardine)
UFC 75 – free TV (Jackson vs. Henderson)
UFC 74 – 520,000 (Couture vs. Gonzaga)
UFC 73 – 425,000 (Ortiz vs. Evans)
UFC 72 – 200,000 (Franklin vs. Okami)
UFC 71 – 675,000 (Liddell vs. Jackson)
UFC 70 – free TV (Crocop vs. Gonzaga)
UFC 69 – 400,000 (St. Pierre vs. Serra)
UFC 68 – 540,000 (Sylvia vs. Couture)
UFC 67 – 350,000 (A. Silva vs. Lutter)
UFC 66 – 1,050,000 (Liddell vs. Tito II) – new record
UFC 65 – 500,000 (Hughes vs. St. Pierre)
UFC 64 – 300,000 (Franklin vs. A. Silva)
UFC 63 – 700,000 (Hughes vs Penn II)
UFC 62 – 500,000 (Liddell vs Sobral)
UFC 61 – 775,000 (Ortiz vs Shamrock II) – new record
UFC 60 – 615,000 (Hughes vs Gracie) – new record
UFC 59 – 415,000 (Tito vs. Griffin)
UFC 58 – 290,000 (Franklin vs Loiseau)
UFC 57 – 400,000 (Couture vs Liddell III) – new record
UFC 56 – 200,000 (Franklin vs. Quarry)
UFC 55 – 125,000 (Arlovski vs. Buentello)
UFC 54 – 150,000 (Liddell vs. Horn)
UFC 53 – 90,000 (Arlovski vs. Eilers)
UFC 52 – 280,000 (Couture vs Liddell II) – new record
UFC 51 – 105,000 (Ortiz vs. Belfort)
UFC 50 – 40,000 (Ortiz vs. Cote)
UFC 49 – 80,000 (Couture vs. Belfort III)
UFC 48 – 110,000 (Shamrock vs. Kimo)
UFC 47 – 104,000 (Ortiz vs. Liddell)
UFC 46 – 77,000 (Couture vs. Belfort II)
UFC 45 – 40,000 (Hughes vs. Trigg)
UFC 44 – 94,000 (Couture vs. Ortiz)
UFC 43 – 49,000 (Couture vs. Liddell)
UFC 42 – 35,000 (Hughes vs. Sherk)
UFC 41 – 60,000 (Rodriguez vs. Sylvia)
UFC 40 – 150,000 (Ortiz vs Shamrock)
UFC 39 – 45,000 (Rodriguez vs. Couture)
UFC 38 – 45,000 (Hughes vs. Newton)
UFC 37 – 50,000 (Lindland vs. Bustamante)
UFC 36 – 55,000 (Barnett vs. Couture)
UFC 35 – 35,000 (Penn vs. Pulver)
UFC 34 – 60,000 (Couture vs. Rizzo)
UFC 33 – 75,000 (Ortiz vs. Matyushenko) – Return of UFC to PPV
UFC 30 (Ortiz vs. Tanner)
by TheAlphaNerd on Oct 21, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well 101 did well, but then again it did have Griffin and B.J. on it…
"Did you feel you did well against Lindland?" "
Hell no.. I wanted to break the law"
---Rampage
by TearsofaClown on Oct 21, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Well unless they get him on the same PPV with Lesnar I’m not sure it will help.
"Did you feel you did well against Lindland?" "
Hell no.. I wanted to break the law"
---Rampage
by TearsofaClown on Oct 21, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously. He’s asking for marquee PPV headliner $$$ when he needs a marquee headline fighter or companion fight to sell his PPVs.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
Well to be fair, he is the best fighter in the UFC and possibly in the world, if anyone deserves to be getting the most money it would be him, no matter if some fans don’t appreciate him.
"Did you feel you did well against Lindland?" "
Hell no.. I wanted to break the law"
---Rampage
by TearsofaClown on Oct 21, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Creative, but nice try.
UFC 101 – 850,000 (BJ Penn, A. Silva vs. Griffin)
UFC 97 – 625,000 (Chuck Liddell A. Silva vs. Leites)
UFC 73 – 425,000 (Ortiz vs. Evans, A. Silva vs. Marquardt)
-————————————————————————————————————————————————
UFC 90 – 300,000 (A. Silva vs. Cote)
UFC 82 – 325,000 (Silva vs. Henderson)
UFC 77 – 325,000 (A. Silva vs. Franklin II)
UFC 67 – 350,000 (A. Silva vs. Lutter)
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
Sorry AlphaNerd.
I didn’t realize you’d replied to your own post. I thought someone was trying to refute your POV and pasted in some somewhat misleading numbers.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
apparently not such big draws
I’m genuinely surprised to see that some fighters that I thought were big draws really aren’t (Dan Henderson, Rich Franklin.) If that’s true it changes my perception of the middleweight division—apparently no one in the division is a big draw.
Have Franklin’s PPV numbers really been that bad? I thought he was a very popular fighter.
by Lauren J Darkbloom on Oct 21, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
In Franklin’s defense 93 and 99 took place in Europe so you lose some when the live broadcast is during the day. Also, in all three of his last fights (93, 99, 103 which did 400,000 I think) there was no belt on the line.
Not bad for a guy who is asked to headline fights when he’s not a champ and he really isn’t in the elite category.
But if you’re pay directly corresponds to buys can you blame him for playing this game? As MMA tries to stay away from boxing it becomes more like boxing. This is one of the reasons I really liked the Bellator model – you had no choice in who you fought and your pay was based purely on performance. I know it is next to impossible for the UFC to incorporate this but I can dream.
who says Anderson has a choice? no matter what format (tournament or otherwise) you can sit out if you dont want to fight.
Nobody in Zuffa can choose their opponents… your thinking about strikeforce.
The only fighter in the UFC who has ever ducked a fight was Tito – which he eventually came back and ended up fighting Chuck anyway.
Points for the completely unnecessary Strikeforce dig.
Apparently Anderson is starting to dictate who he fights. He nixed a fight with Nate or Hendo, and now is trying to nix a fight with Vitor. At least until it’s on a card that is guaranteed to drum up buys.
how did he nix those fights???
Do you have any business sense? what scenario do you think made more financial sense for ZUffa and competitive sense for the sport? guess what… those are the fights being engineered. If Hendo is late in resigning then Nate will probably fight Okami for the shot or he’ll be next in line.
Anderson only has only 2 choices… fight Vitor or sit out.
Tito is the only Zuffa fighter in history to sit out. (which he then ultimately came back and ended up fighting)
If you want “pick your opponent” boxing go watch strikeforce. Dont group Zuffa in the dumb “mma is becoming like boxing” argument.
He certainly did attempt to put the kibosh on those fights, whether it was for “business purposes” instead of fear of competition aside. It’s very much a “boxing move” in that he’s looking to fight the opponent (or get slotted on the fight card) that will give him the maximum return financially.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
sure he said the same thing about Vitor… but that had nothing to do with Zuffas matchmaking… if Silva vs Hendo or Silva vs Nate made more sense those are the fights that would have been made.
I think from Andersons point of view he would have rather fought Hendo than Vitor. But guess what he’s got 2 choices sit out or take the fight.
That boxing bullshit doesnt fly in the UFC. you can pick and choose and your opponents all you want and pad your records all you want before you get to the UFC… But once your in the UFC it doesnt work anymore.
Certainly – as I was saying, he’s not doing this in an attempt to avoid competition or hide from fighters that are dangerous threats. It’s a total “biz” move…there’s nothing wrong with Zuffa’s matchmaking or any record puffery going on…he’s just going to prefer the fights with guys that make him the most coin and I guess you can’t really blame the guy.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
I agree i dont think he’s afraid of lyoto – probably just doesnt want to potentially take away his freinds accomplishments.
The other guys are a combination of business – risk/reward.
But my point was Andersons risk/reward calculations have nothing to do with Zuffa’s match making.
The only thing Zuffa is concerned with is what are the best fights to make and which fights make the most sense from a competitive and financial view. Nobody gives a shit what Anderson or his little Bald crouton thinks.
Listen to yourself.
The only thing Zuffa is concerned with is what are the best fights to make and which fights make the most sense from a competitive and financial view. Nobody gives a shit what Anderson or his little Bald crouton thinks.
Wow…UFC wants to make more money for themselves?
Anderson is doing the same thing.
Mir fight probably makes more sense from a competitive and financial view…for Anderson.
He’s just saying that Zuffa won’t be strong-armed into setting up hand-picked “gimme” fights for Silva.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
It was the UFC’s decision to give Anderson some hand picked gimme fights.
That’s exactly what Anderson DIDN’T want.
Fights that don’t motivate him such as Cote and Leites.
And asking for Mir is not a hand-picked gimme fight.
And asking for Mir is not a hand-picked gimme fight.
You’re right – sorry, I corrected myself. That fight makes no sense for the UFC. Why have these two guys fighting each other? Mir is one of the names that got Lesnar over…why potentially sacrifice a viable HW contender and draw for a mercurial MW who needs other draws to sell ppvs? It’s just going to lead to him making more superfight demands and holding the division in limbo. It really doesn’t make any sense for them…and if Anderson loses, even to a HW, you’re removing a lot of his aura of invincibility.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
I understand why they wouldn’t want to make that fight from the UFC’s standpoint.
It’s exactly as you said…why risk a HW contender.
But from Anderson’s standpoint…it would be a bigger PPV draw…so I can understand why Anderson would want the fight.
Each is wanting to do what’s best for them…and they’ll figure something out…a middle ground.
There’s just a lot of hate going around lately, against Anderson for his honesty.
Nobody said Mir or turning down fight X or fight Y wasnt in Andersons best interest…
This argument is about whether fighters duck, and pick and choose their opponents like in boxing. My argument was that it doesnt happen in the UFC.
Zuffa could make more money short term with a mir vs silva fight… but the fight that makes the most sense for the SPORT and long term growth is Silva vs Vitor.
Guess which fight was matched up? Hint: not the fight Anderson and co wanted or chose.
Read the entire thread otherwise you look like you have no reading comprehension.
“but the fight that makes the most sense for the SPORT”
Plenty of other fights that make more sense for Silva and the sport.
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Nixed was probably too strong a word, but he’s definitely trying to game the system to get either an opponent who is a sizable draw and/or on a card with a Brock or GSP type fighter. My point was that even though the UFC had tried to keep away from boxing style co-promotion, by tying fighters pay to ppv performance was leading to some of the same problems – namely fighters dicking around to get the best deal.
The best fighter in the world could certainly “pick” his own opponent.
You think Zuffa is going to drop him just like that?
He played the game…he fought guys like Lutter and Cote.
The UFC wouldn’t let him box with RJJ, now he’s trying to make money for himself.
The UFC set the ground rules…now he’s just playing by them.
Well lets see if you know what the fuck you’re talking about:
Anderson and CO picked Mir to fight and said they didnt want to fight Vitor..
GUESS WHICH FIGHT WAS ACTUALLY OFFERED?
GUESS WHO ANDERSON’S NEXT OPPONENT IS?
now run along…
They haven't confirmed
or announced anything yet.
And considering it’s only verbal, you need to check yourself before you make claims son.
I saw the same shit on Yahoo!
And sure…Dana could have his way this time.
At any point…Dana could’ve offered enough “bonus” to make this fight worthwhile for Silva.
But don’t act like Dana’s words are gold…and stop acting like you know.
bonus to take a fight in a division in which you are a champion of and that you have a contractual obligation to take??? my retard alert is going off…
Silva doesn’t want it…and he’s not obligated to do it.
It’s called a fucking bout agreement…dummy.
Who turned down both Henderson and Marquardt saying they don’t deserve it?
Damn…are you really that dense?
Punch yourself in the throat for being so dumb.
This shit is hilarious.
mmalogic can be an ass, but he knows what he is talking about.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
mmalogiccan beis an ass, but he knows what he is talking about
Fixed
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Oct 23, 2009 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Flagged for...
…just kidding. Rec’d.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
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Well lets see if you know what the fuck you’re talking about:
Anderson and CO picked Mir to fight and said they didnt want to fight Vitor..
GUESS WHICH FIGHT WAS ACTUALLY OFFERED?
GUESS WHO ANDERSON’S NEXT OPPONENT IS?
now run along…
GUESS WHICH FIGHT WAS ACTUALLY OFFERED?
Brock vs. Fedor at 103?
BOOSH
by Farthammer on Oct 21, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If he was would he really answer that question honestly? and if he did answer it honestly would anyone believe him?
"Did you feel you did well against Lindland?" "
Hell no.. I wanted to break the law"
---Rampage
by TearsofaClown on Oct 23, 2009 5:36 AM EDT up reply actions
No.
He doesn’t use the F word enough.
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That’s odd because plenty of people turned down Machida over the past few years.
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I believe a lot of that has to do with his oppoents as well. He fights nobody of interest for the most part. MAtch him up with guys like Forrest, Rampage, Wandy…he’ll get buy rates. He needs exciting fights. Unfortunately, Anderson doesn’t have the aura of a guy like Tyson so people aren’t going to just tune in to see him crush people. There needs to be something else added to the foil..
Yeah, fighters should just roll over and accept whatever the UFC offers them even if it hurts them financially.
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Anderson has been texting Machida everyday to make sure they are still BFF’s … he’s created a rolodex of all the fighters he doesn’t want to fight and is planning on sending them christmas cards while licking his lips and scratching them off as potential opponents.
I think that’s a mistake on his part.
If he hasn’t been so vocal about not fighting Machida, he might be able to get some bigger names at 205 (which is where the money is). Brock is a monster right now, but before him, and besides him, most of the superstars are in LHW. If he would shut up about not fighting Machida he might be able to get some fights at 205, but his comments, plus his attitude towards 185 right now, make it hard for Zuffa to give him many more big fights at 205.
yeah, It makes no sense for him to fight at 205 and ruin fights for Machida.
He’s got 2 more fights at 185 and then its renegotiation time… lets see if he’s still crying about not wanting to fight Machida then.
Why?
There’s ZERO money in a fight against Roy Jones Jr. if it doesn’t have the UFC PR machine behind it. Unless he’s serious about retirement.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
Interesting. I still feel like he’ll stick around if there’s money to be made…i.e. If he runs out this string of fights and then signs another “retirement contract” where he’ll fight Randy, Hughes, etc. in “super fights” rather than dealing with an anemic (draw-wise) MW division.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
He’d be crazy not to if he can get one of these Randy/Hughes deals. It will be interesting to see how they structure the deal if he wants to relinquish the title but they want to make sure he stays in the fold.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
yeah , even if he’s not the biggest draw he’s definitely a staple in the organization. He’s gonna get the GSP treatment… and Im not talking about the vaseline kind.
Im not talking about the vaseline kind.
Unless that’s what he’s into…not that there’s anything wrong with that.
In the end I wonder if he’s just going to try to strong arm “re-negotiate” the last three fights to give him more “guaranteed money” (e.g. cash bonuses). That being said, I really don’t think Dana likes to f*cked with by anyone other than Mrs. White.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
No, I really think he’s trying to build as much equity (fighting big name fighters) as possible to be in a better position to renegotiate.
Beating Hendo and Nate again really doesn’t do much. And worse guys like leites and cote.
Interesting…yeah that would definitely give him a great deal of leverage come time for new negotiations. So the question is then, does Zuffa give him the opportunity to take out a Frank Mir or Rashad?
While it’s a definite short term gain (A. Silva is happy and fightsm, PPV buys/increased product interest) I don’t think they allow this to happen because it wreaks havoc on two other divisions & drawing fighters (making that 3 he’s mucked up) and Silva has increased bargaining power when his contract is up (though that pesky champions’ clause really causes him issues).
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
yeah if that clause is ever tested it would be in this scenario.
He’s got 2 more fights left at MW. Vitor and winner of NateVHendo (or NateVOkami if Hendo takes too long hunting quail)
The renegotiation begins. There is another theory and it centers around why he’s so adamant in wanting to remain UFC MW champ.
Is he trying to promote a boxing fight of “UFC Champ vs Boxing Champ”?
after his second fight all will be clear. Because a BIG CARROT AND A BIG STICK will be presented. If he resigns then everything rolls – if he doesnt then he doesnt need to be presented hi final fight for a while. and then after that you have an exclusive negotiating period.
Then the last straw is the champions clause. Whether Zuffa can win that battle or not one thing is for sure – he can be kept in court for 18 months.
So I say no matter what scheme he’s got planned Zuffa has a big enough carrot and a big enough stick where I believe he will most probably re-think his plans and re-sign.
Nothing builds loyalty in my employees more than threatening their future careers if they don’t continue to work for me.
There seems to be somewhat of a correlation between how much a fighter makes, how much he’s promoted and how much he bitches.
Lots of money + lots of promotion = whiny bitch.
There were less “premadonnas” when there was no money in this business.
I just wish there was a more standardized way of negotiating contracts, like something similar to the NFL draft slotting system.
by WestbergIDFC on Oct 21, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
And who couldn’t see that coming? Money corrupts.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Oct 21, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Maximizing your earnings certainly makes one a bitch!
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http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
That’s why people write for BE: They’re not bitches.
:-)
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“Dan Henderson had re-established himself as a legitimate threat to any fighter on the planet”
…except Anderson Silva.
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I don't buy that...
That’s like saying that Brock Lesnar wasn’t a legitimate threat to Frank Mir because Mir beat him the first time around.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 21, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree hendo’s a threat but he is at his peak… I mean how much more is he going to learn or get better?
Lesnar was very green and had lots of upside – but I get your point.
Hendo hasnt shown anything “new” that says the outcome would be any different. Nate has looked better. I think thats why this fight makes the most sense.
Agreed
Personally, I am just not sold on Henderson as even arguably the #1 contender. In his 3 wins, he has one finish and one controversial decision.
Marquardt on the other hand has 4 finishes and 1 controversial loss in his last 5 fights.
Not even a contest.
I beg to differ
He’s got a really nice overhand right! Especially when his opponent constantly circles into it.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
by The_Gaijin on Oct 21, 2009 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
a) Brock Lesnar was, frankly speaking, an MMA amateur when he took on Mir and still looked pretty good in defeat. By the time of their rematch, he had been training MMA for twice as long. Right?
b) In the same vein: what has Hendo done in the time since his fight to up his game? Besides turning 39, I mean?
c) We heard from every UFC mouthpiece that Dan Henderson’s greco game was perfectly suited to take on Anderson Silva because he could control him in the clinch and on the ground. Did anyone else see that? I didn’t. I saw him sit on Silva and completely fail to injure him for most of a round, then get submitted on the ground – supposedly his strongest position.
Seriously: was his win over Bisping that impressive? Or does going to a split decision (robbery) over Franklin – a guy that Silva, to be perfectly honest, could have murdered in their second outing – prove that he stands a chance?
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Franklin – a guy that Silva, to be perfectly honest,could havemurdered in their second outing
Fixed.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
Thanks.
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LOL
Re-Established himself as the exact same fighter he has always been. And not to bash but with no exceptional improvements or additions to his game
This is his latest interview from MMA Fanhouse.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Oct 21, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I know right. This is great promotion for Fedor by the UFC P4P champ.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Oct 21, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s a great answer. I’m sure Anderson thinks he’s got a pretty good shot at beating Fedor, but why be rude by talking smack about a fellow legend.
by John Nash on Oct 21, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He has already mentioned this before, that he thought Fedor was the best fighter in MMA. Same with most other MMA fighters, like GSP. They’ve said the same.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Oct 21, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
To be fair, he also said it’s because Fedor is bigger than him.
by Chris Barton on Oct 21, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Now if Fedor cut to 185… Or 170?
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Fedor and Anderson Silva are pretty much the same size. Bigger size discrepancy between Lesnar vs Couture or Rich Franklin versus any MW not named Anderson or Okami.
=)
by MMASuPreMaCy on Oct 21, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
No, no they aren’t. Fedor apologists love to throw that out there but it’s not true. Granted it’s not as big a size difference as Lesnar/Randy but it does exist.
Regardless, I was just pointing out that Anderson said size is why he was saying Fedor would beat him. In addition, Anderson loves to play humble.
by Chris Barton on Oct 21, 2009 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed..
Fedor also said he was not the best fighter in the world.
=)
Fedor walks at about 6’00 230 and Anderson is 6’2 at 220, I believe.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Oct 21, 2009 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Fighting shape Fedor walks at about 6’00 230 and fat out of shape Anderson is 6’2 at 220, I believe.
Fixed
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
LOL
You said a fighting shape Fedor.
=)
by MMASuPreMaCy on Oct 22, 2009 2:04 AM EDT up reply actions
It's a shape!
And that shape is round.
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And it’s also the shape he wins in.
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by jemaleddin on Oct 22, 2009 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Amazing that you managed to work this in. I didn’t think you even read Zuffa related threads/
I dislike Matt Hughes.
Or...
Should I say posts. You better correct yourself…fast.
=)
by MMASuPreMaCy on Oct 21, 2009 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions
You can defend or accuse Anderson till you’re blue in the face. There’s good reasons and bad reasons for what he’s doing right now. As a fan, I wish he was more like GSP and Machida. I know I know, GSP and Machida are just now champions and only beginning to clean out their divisions. Whatever. I wish that Anderson had that attitude. He’s become a spoiled brat.
I think that “ruining the division” is overstating it a bit.
And I’m fine with Dan being gone. He was great while he lasted, but he’s not doing anything that entertaining, he’s being difficult by not fighting Nate, and he’s wanting too much money (apparently). Now that he’s gone, we can start having Silva vs Nate and Silva vs Vitor.
Silva ruined many thing actually, we should make a list.
UFC 104=> ben rothwell will UD the shit outta Velasquez.
Franklin's brain
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by jemaleddin on Oct 21, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Leites Heart
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by jemaleddin on Oct 21, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Forrest's Courage.
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by jemaleddin on Oct 21, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
And yet, not Hendo's ability to act like he's top dog
I mean, dude got beat up, beat down, and choked out by a guy that he was “the perfect match-up” for – and he still thinks he’s the shit? Wah?
In other news, how did I not get rec’d for that wicked 3-part Oz joke? Damn, people – what do I have to do for you?
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by jemaleddin on Oct 21, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Bless you, son.
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Wait, Leben had enunciation? :-)
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
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Our collective memory of Leben’s enunciation.
Fixed.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
Wow - Anderson Silva hit Chris Leben so hard
…that it affected MY brain? DAMN.
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Fan's Feelings
. . . he’s not like GSP or Machida,
PERSONALLY, I wish he was more like BROCK LESNAR . . . now he’s entertaining!!!
WWE FTW!!!
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by VeeisAnimated on Oct 21, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I just threw up a little
…in your mouth.
Sorry.
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Uhmm . . .
That’s a little bit nasty, but I guess this is the internet.
Don’t take the whole Silva – Lesnar thing too seriously.
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by VeeisAnimated on Oct 21, 2009 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry, it just makes me nauseated...
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This post might have been more accurately titled “How Anderson Silva Is One Of the Numerous Factors Contributing To The Unfortunate State of the UFC Middleweight Division.”
But I guess that’s not as catchy.
..."Including, but not limited to: Dan Henderson overvaluing his stardom and chances against Silva, Belfort being overrated based on a win over a past-his-prime Lindland and a fight at a completely different weight class, Marquardt not standing a chance"
“And last but not least, Anderson having kicked the asses of every serious challenger.”
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No, I had to leave him out
…because I said “every serious challenger.”
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But he has a "win" over Silva!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Exactly!
And once you get past that bullshit, he has a loss to Franklin and three wins over irrelevant middleweights in just over 2 years. Yawn.
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Okami’s health is the biggest problem not the “strength of schedule” If you look impressive enough running through middle of the road competition you can still drive up interest in a title challenge. Okami just can’t put together a string of impressive looking wins without then going on the shelf again.
It’s like pressing the reset button every time.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 21, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Losing to Franklin
…and not looking good winning are his other problems.
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“And being a dull fighterin the eyes of many.”
Fixed.
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What an outstanding KO victory! Too bad the “KO” and “victory” don’t refer to each other…
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
It’s hard to look at that as a “loss” though….
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I still consider that KO of that year.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
I really don't get why that isn't legal.
I get why kicks from a standing opponent to a grounded opponent aren’t legal – anyone who watches a Shogun highlight real can see the potential for neck-snappage.
But when BOTH are grounded? And especially from the bottom?
Luckily Anderson still uses that move, but now he just pushes guys off with it. SUCH. A. BAD. ASS.
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If I’m going to poke a bear I’m going to do it with the butt of a gun, not a stick from a tree.
Which means, I wanted to get you guys talking…the title is part one of the equation. And it does seem to have worked eh?
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by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 21, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
It made some of us make fun of your headline...
…so yeah! :-)
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If he wanted to be a draw he should have murdered the hell out of Leites and Cote instead of playing with them.
Keep firing Assholes!
Never trust a man with no shirt on.
Nothing endears you as a draw to fans who plunked down $50 to see you fight than going out there and dogging the fuck out of it.
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