Adding Chuck Liddell Would Solve the UFC 108 Impasse
by Michael Rome on Oct 21, 2009 4:00 PM EDT
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72 comments
The New Year's show has become something of a tradition for the UFC. For the past three years, it's been the biggest show of the year, a celebration of sorts to end the year and promise another year of big things to come. Only this year, the card is not exactly shaping up the way the UFC hoped.
Anderson Silva's mysterious elbow injury is acting up again. It has a sneaky habit of flustering UFC plans when they don't give him what he wants. Such is life when you tie fighter salary to PPV buyrates. It's easy to understand why Silva isn't excited about fighting Belfort. Belfort is not a PPV draw and never has been, and the show is unlikely to beat the 500,000 buy mark if the co-main event is Rashad Evans vs. Thiago Silva.
The answer to the UFC 108 impasse lies with Chuck Liddell, who has made a lot of noise about returning. Everyone knows he will fight again, the only questions are when and against who? The ideal answers to those questions are as follows: Mark Coleman at UFC 108.
Coleman is now free after pulling out of his fight with Ortiz, and suggested he could return for the New Year's show. Liddell's return against a fellow hall of famer would add a real draw to the card, and would probably convince Anderson Silva's doctor to clear him to fight Vitor Belfort. A show with Anderson-Vitor, Chuck-Coleman, and Rashad-Silva would actually do very well on PPV, and would be a big enough card to end the year on.
Some have suggested a fight between Anderson Silva and Rashad Evans. The fight would be a much bigger draw than Vitor-Silva to the casual fan, especially with Rashad coming off TUF. However, Dana White still wants to promote Rashad Evans vs. Rampage Jackson, and a devastating loss to Silva would really hurt interest in that fight.
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no argument it would draw viewers, but coleman/liddell would be kind of an insult to fans who want to see relevant fights.
ufc needs to think really hard about how they can create new stars now that their last batch is at retirement age.
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by GregS123 on Oct 21, 2009 4:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
retirement age?
Sure maybe the Couture’s and Liddell’s but GSP, Penn, Lesnar, Evans, Griffin are all still young.
Think about it this way 4 years ago you would have never thought guys like Griffin, Evans, or Sanchez would headline a PPV. Hell even GSP didnt become a star until 2006 so you never know what will happen.
by bigdmmafan on Oct 21, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
fair enough… certainly not talking about GSP/Penn/Lesnar/Evans/Griffin.
but what frustrates me would be going back to the well too many times on a guy that clearly isn’t that relevant competitively anymore in liddell…
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by GregS123 on Oct 21, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Relevance is all relative.
To the hardcore fans who care more about where fighters stand in a division…etc. yes, this would be a bit of a waste of a fight.
However, to the casual fan seeing Chuck return against another UFC HoF’er in Coleman would be interesting. And it would drive buys. And honestly pleasing the buy driving audience is much more important than pleasing you or I
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by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 21, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
UFC 104 non-headliners
Lightweight bout: Gleison Tibau vs. Josh Neer1
Lightweight bout: Joe Stevenson vs. Spencer Fisher1
Welterweight bout: Anthony Johnson vs. Yoshiyuki Yoshida1
[edit] Spike TV card
Light Heavyweight bout: Ryan Bader vs. Eric Schafer1
Heavyweight bout: Antoni Hardonk vs. Patrick Barry1
[edit] Preliminary card
Middleweight bout: Yushin Okami vs. Chael Sonnen1
Middleweight bout: Jorge Rivera vs. Rob Kimmons1
Light Heavyweight bout: Kyle Kingsbury vs. Razak Al-Hassan1
Heavyweight bout: Stefan Struve vs. Chase Gormley1
Other than Okami and MAYBE Anthony Johnson, who is relevent to any title discussion right now?
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
by aaronb on Oct 21, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And who said UFC 104 is a good example for anything ? Let’s see the numbers , the UFC promoted the main event very well but I still think it’s going to do average numbers , at best .
by JoelMan on Oct 21, 2009 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd be ok with it but they would have to do a prelim show because
There are already 7 fights I want to see on this card
Anderson Silva vs. Vitor Belfort
Rashad Evans vs. Thiago Silva
Gabriel Gonzaga vs. Junior dos Santos
Carlos Condit vs. Paul Daley
Jim Miller vs. Tyson Griffin
Cole Miller vs. Dan Lauzon
Joe Lauzon vs Sam Stout
by bigdmmafan on Oct 21, 2009 4:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Is this the first time that two brothers have been on the same card in the UFC?
by TheChairman on Oct 21, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No.
They were both on UFC 103.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
by The_Gaijin on Oct 21, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s talking about the Lauzons. Cole Miller and Jim Miller are not brothers.
by Michaelthebox on Oct 21, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously? LOL…FAIL.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
by The_Gaijin on Oct 21, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Durrrr….it’s Jim and Dan Miller.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
by The_Gaijin on Oct 21, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and Cole and Micah (though Micah isn’t in the UFC)
by swells2048 on Oct 21, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For Liddell, this would be a great matchup against his bread and butter opponent – a wrestler who he can outstrike. He’d have a great chance to keep his career alive. But I agree with GregS123, I don’t see how this fight matters.
by nottheface on Oct 21, 2009 4:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Not every fight has to matter. Some can be just fun to watch.
by Patrick79x on Oct 21, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
Agreed.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Oct 21, 2009 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I could, I’d rec this until it caught fire. I’m not sure this fight WOULD be fun to watch; it totally depends on how much Chuck and Coleman have declined – relative to each other – but the only way to find out is to have them fight… Regardless, it’s not like Chuck has been wandering around regional shows getting KO’d by guys with losing records, and Coleman did just take a win over Stephan Bonnar who, while not championship contender, is at least “relevant”. Just because neither guy is likely to be champ again doesn’t mean they should retire, and just because it’s not feeding into the championship picture doesn’t mean I wouldn’t like to watch it. Obviously a fight like this is designed to get the casual fans excited, and while I can’t say I’d be JACKED UP to see it, I’d at least be interested.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Oct 22, 2009 6:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chuck Liddell vs Kimbo Slice for the biggest PPV of all time.
by nastyem on Oct 21, 2009 4:10 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Haha, I like this as well. Though Kimbo KO’ing Chuck would be quite a blow to the legitimacy of MMA. I can just see all the headlines now….“Former UFC Champ KO’d by Street Fighter”.
by Razzel on Oct 21, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds crazy but why push Kimbo into his first UFC fight against some low to mid tier opponent for his first fight. If he did that and Kimbo lost, DW would pretty much have to pull the plug on the Kimbo promotion and not even score a big payday with him.
OR, you put him in there against someone huge like Liddell who is you know is more than willing to keep it standing, score a huge PPV payday victory, and get one of their careers on track again.
by nastyem on Oct 21, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I actually like this idea
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Oct 22, 2009 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good Idea
I like the fight. Seemingly low risk that Chuck gets KO’d standing by Coleman. And Chuck’s cardio should be better. A win doesn’t really do much for either and a loss (especially for Chuck) would be an ender
by swells2048 on Oct 21, 2009 4:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Great idea! People say the fight doesn’t matter, but it doesn’t need to since neither fighter is relevant in the title picture. After losing 3 of 4, this is the kind of fight Chuck needs.
by Razzel on Oct 21, 2009 4:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good idea. It would be the right time to capitalize on Chuck’s DWTS fame.
by Reciprocity on Oct 21, 2009 4:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Liddell’s return against a fellow hall of famer would add a real draw to the card, and would probably convince Anderson Silva’s doctor to clear him to fight Vitor Belfort.
ha, nice!
by woooburn on Oct 21, 2009 4:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Chuck Liddell Not On UFC 108
They could add Chuck Liddell to UFC 108, but it’s unlikely as it makes the most sense to hold him off until his fight with Kimbo Slice.
Chuck’s fight with Kimbo is, of course, following Kimbo v. Houston Alexander, a fight which I brilliantly proposed back in June.
Additionally, if Coleman’s injury was a legitimate ACL tear, he will almost certainly not be ready to fight again in January, which would be some three months after surgery to repair the torn ligament. But maybe I’m just completely remembering Coleman’s injury incorrectly and have that entirely wrong.
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by Brett Jones on Oct 21, 2009 4:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Coleman was asking Tito to just wait till Dec, so Jan just gives him more time. I don’t think it was a complete tear.
I don’t like the idea of Kimbo vs Chuck. It would sell, no doubt but its bad and Chuck already said he has no interest in fighting Kimbo.
by swells2048 on Oct 21, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Coleman fight makes sense…
Chuck is at a certain point where only novelty fights make sense. Chuck vs Franklin makes sense after this.
After Randy loses to Brandon Vera then he’ll be in this novelty mix alongside the loser of Tito VS Forrest.
Chuck could get knocked the fuck out 2 more times and people will still pay to watch him.
These guys have “aged” brands that can still be monetized for a few more years.
by mmalogic on Oct 21, 2009 4:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Chuck could get knocked the fuck out 2 more times and people will still pay to watch him.
You don’t think Dana’s going to hold out on his promise to not allow Chuck to fight anymore? If it’s safe fights like Coleman I could see it, but Cro Cop, Franklin, etc…I don’t see him letting it get to that.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
by The_Gaijin on Oct 21, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you’re right… crocop would kill him. But guys like franklin, forrest who arent KO punchers and have names are the type of fights he’ll be in. Coleman, etc…
by mmalogic on Oct 21, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly the way CC has looked lately, I’m not even sure I’d be too worried about Chuck…but his reflexes and chin has gone downhill so badly…
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
by The_Gaijin on Oct 21, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Franklin doesn’t have KO power against a guy like Chuck? Are you kidding me? I’m pretty sure if he nailed Chuck with a shot like he did against Quarry, Chuck would go timber.
by oasis77 on Oct 21, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Especially if Chuck’s nose was broken like Quarry’s was…
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Oct 21, 2009 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The UFC Shot Division Champion.
=)
by MMASuPreMaCy on Oct 21, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Legends champion?
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
by The_Gaijin on Oct 21, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
round robin: “SUPER OLD AND PAST THEIR PRIME TOURNAMENT”
by mmalogic on Oct 21, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kinda like Super Hulk without the weight differences.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Oct 21, 2009 7:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Chuck-Coleman makes sense, Chuck-Tito II makes sense, Chuck-Houston makes sense, Chuck-Kimbo could eventually make sense if Kimbo gets a couple knockouts. I would keep him away from anyone relevant unless he won like 4 fights in a row.
by Michael Rome on Oct 21, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont mean to get to picky but technically I think it would be Chuck-Tito 3
by TLAoutlaw on Oct 21, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would like to see Chuck-Houston.
I love me some Sexyama!
by pud333 on Oct 21, 2009 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Have Chuck face Vitor at 205 and have Anderson fight Rashad.
Problem solved.
by oasis77 on Oct 21, 2009 4:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
They’re not going to sacrifice another fighter like they did with Forrest just to appease Silva. I honestly don’t see that happening.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
by The_Gaijin on Oct 21, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They will if it adds another 200K buys..
by oasis77 on Oct 21, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Adding 200k buys at the risk of blowing a bigger PPV down the road? (e.g. Rashad x Rampage)
I honestly don’t see them hot-shotting a fight like that for the short-term gain of 200k buys…that would be a terrible business move.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
by The_Gaijin on Oct 21, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, get Chuck and Rashad killed at the same event, that’ll make the fans happy.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Oct 21, 2009 7:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Battle of the Moldy Oldies.
Keep firing Assholes!
Never trust a man with no shirt on.
by Ubernoober on Oct 21, 2009 4:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Makes Sense
Assuming the Iceman and the Hammer are able to fight (Coleman’s knee potentially a problem) it makes a ton of sense and Joe Silva should watch his back.
Getting a Sr. Circuit going in the UFC is old hat for Zuffa. The first PPV they made money on was Tito vs. Shamrock well past Shamrock’s his prime. Names sell and Zuffa knows it, its a perfect match to get everyone involved who is pissy about who they are fighting (I’m looking at you Rashad and you Mr Badest Man on the Planet, eh sir) to get over it and get paid.
Great idea, I would love to know how the PPV points would get distributed between the 4 fighters who could ask for points. Well maybe not Coleman, but if I were him I’d be looking for a piece. The card continues the every 6 months a 3-headliner show trend, should put the PPV buys up in the 700k – 800k range I would think.
This would be Anderson’s second fight with Chuck on the same card, sort of like GSP has 2 of his past 3 fights with Brock on the same card. This is how Zuffa plays favorites.
by pwrcartel on Oct 21, 2009 5:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You get your full “points” under your contract, regardless of how many others are on the show with points. This is one of the issues with giving every fighter PPV deals, the overhead starts getting expensive. I did some rough math on what they paid for UFC 100 along with some rumors of what I heard in undisclosed bonuses, and compared to revenue. If you include some advertising estimates, I think they paid out around $15 million total on that card while taking in around $40 million. That’s a nearly 40% payout.
The point really is that as much as we talk about low pay, everyone knows the pay is going up, and Zuffa is doing everything it can to prevent pay from going completely out of control. Having multiple guys on a show with PPV points can get really expensive.
by Michael Rome on Oct 21, 2009 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
$15 million, really? With only 2 guys who get PPV cuts?
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Oct 21, 2009 7:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
At 1.6 million buys, the current estimate, GSP and Brock made in the 4 million range for that show. Mir made somewhere between 1 and 2 million by his own estimates, Dan earned 350, Bisping earned 150, and Thiago Alves made way more than disclosed, in the 400k range for a title loss. Including bonuses for the rest of the show and all the salaries, you find yourself at 10-11 million in salary.
From there they spent 500k on the countdown, and did one of the more extensive ad campaigns they’ve ever done for a show, surely worth millions. I think 15 million in overhead is about right.
by Michael Rome on Oct 21, 2009 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK, I see, I thought you were talking $15 mil just in fighter’s salaries.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Oct 21, 2009 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
10-11 is ballpark to 15 really
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Oct 22, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know about you but $4-5 million is a lot of money to me.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Oct 22, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really what you do is establish a “masters” division without calling it that. A group of fighters that fans really care about but aren’t relevant anymore that can help sell fights and pay the younger fighters. Maybe if someone goes on a huge run they bust back into the real top 10.
Not every fight has to be relevant to divisional rankings.
by Michael Rome on Oct 21, 2009 5:41 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
the real value, I should add, is that you can convince guys like Anderson Silva to participate in “relevant” fights by having these “irrelevant” fights. Doing this would increase his payday by around a million dollars.
by Michael Rome on Oct 21, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good idea. Piggy back new talent to fading stars that still have some pull with fans.
Really, I have no desire to see Chuck get KO’d by Luiz Cane or some other up and coming LHW. Or Randy get demolished by someone like Cain, etc. Nor do I want to see the other side of the coin: new talent getting derailed by guys like Chuck or Randy who are still dangerous, but most likely won’t ever hold the title again.
I love me some Sexyama!
by pud333 on Oct 21, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good shit, Rome
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Robert Downey Sr. on Oct 21, 2009 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s sort of what they’ve been doing with Franklin.
I don’t know why people were expecting him to go after the 205 belt, I never thought he was anywhere near contention up there.
Guys like him, Chuck, Tito, Coleman, Bonnar might be in this group, if Forrest can’t get going he’s in it. These guys aren’t going to get cut. They aren’t really in title contention, but they make Zuffa money, and they make lots of money from Zuffa. They can alternate fighting each other and fighting up and comers to see if they are ready to jump into title contention. If one of them goes on a miracle run of victories, they can get a title shot, but these fights are goin to make money.
by Phildo on Oct 21, 2009 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chuck the Gut.
I find him really boring to watch. Please no Chuck.
by Machida Hadouken on Oct 21, 2009 6:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
UFC should hire you as a consultant.
by Michael Rome on Oct 21, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
if randy gets beat by Vera I could see them having Randy and Chuck go at it again
by merv on Oct 21, 2009 6:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
As good as the idea of having two current hall of famers fight each other, it’s mean putting Coleman against Liddell. Liddell still has awesome takedown defence and Colemans uncoordinated striking will be disastrous against Liddell’s style. I think it’s the ideal matchup to get Liddell back to his winning ways.
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by Angry Fight Fan on Oct 21, 2009 6:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, not a good matchup for Coleman. Coleman is the type of guy Liddell feasted on in the past: usually guys that fight better on the ground with worse standup than him. Even if Coleman were to get Liddell down, he won’t be able to hold him down.
I love me some Sexyama!
by pud333 on Oct 21, 2009 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Id be really dissapointed if they had Kimbo vs Chuck, id watch it out of disturbed curiosity, but the wrong kind of curiosity to have in combat sports, I guess the fact that people would be watching it though is the only thing a business needs to hear. If fading legends are gonna fight, let there be at least some good matchmaking in the sense that its a competitive fight but also respects their legacy.
by merv on Oct 21, 2009 6:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
At this point in time, Kimbo vs anyone would basically be a freakshow.
I love me some Sexyama!
by pud333 on Oct 21, 2009 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Have you guys forgotten Chuck's recent prowess with the takedowns?
I like Chuck via G’n’P
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Robert Downey Sr. on Oct 21, 2009 7:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That's a skill Chuck has not learned
Everytime he takes somebody down, he looks lost and immediately lets them back up.
This is going to sound crazy, but one of the best guys at this seems to be Michael Bisping. Seriously, the few times I’ve seen him get top position, he used his reach and landed devastating strikes over and over.
If Chuck could get to that level, he might be scary again.
by Razzel on Oct 22, 2009 3:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was just joking since the proposal has Chuck against the “godfather of ground n pound”.
But since I think about it… Chuck with GnP could actually be a force. I think he might’ve stopped Silva in that fight if he wasn’t doing it just to pull points.
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Robert Downey Sr. on Oct 22, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Silva against Evans is a great fight, I doubt they’d put it off in case maybe Rampage comes back in 6 months.
I’d like to see Coleman doubleleg Chuck into hell too.
by omigawda on Oct 21, 2009 11:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Again with this nonsense about UFC 108, there is no impasse if Andy’s elbow acts up then the UFC will put on another big fight in it’s place. But it won’t matter because sometime early next year he will face Vitor for the MW title point blank period book it. Chuck will probably get another fight but don’t expect it to happen anytime soon, I like the idea of him and Coleman both are at about the same level right now and would make a great final fight for The Iceman.
by Raker on Oct 21, 2009 11:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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