Can MMA Find a Spot in the 2016 Olympics?
by Leland Roling on Oct 2, 2009 6:15 PM EDT
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With the announcement that Brazil will host te 2016 Summer Olympics, Mike Chiappetta over at MMA Fanhouse makes the argument that MMA and Jiu-jitsu should be added to the vast array of athletic sports at the 2016 Summer Olympics:
Jiu-jitsu and MMA deserve to have a place in today's Olympics, and specifically, an Olympics in Brazil. The IOC adds sports based upon their global prevalence, and there is no question that both have a larger international presence than some IOC-recognized sports, including sumo, floorball, boule and korfball (no, I didn't make any of those up). Think about this for a second: tug of war is officially recognized as a sport and jiu-jitsu and MMA are not.
.....
No one is trying to pretend jiu-jitsu is Brazil's national pastime; clearly soccer is the nation's true passion. But jiu-jitsu and MMA are two of the fastest-rising sports in the world, and they were given to the world by Brazil and its sons, the Gracies. Let them celebrate that contribution in front of an international audience. BJJ and MMA get bigger every year. Who knows how much bigger they will be by 2016? While MMA has certain visceral elements that make it a hard sell to a PG-event, either it or jiu-jitsu deserves the spotlight. Think of the excitement that would follow dynamic MMA stars like Georges St. Pierre, Gegard Mousasi or Jon Jones (or for you grappling fans, Braulio Estima, Alexandre "Xande" Ribeiro or Marcelo Garcia).
I'm in complete agreeance that Jiu-jitsu would make a fine addition to the 2016 roster of sports. After all, we don't call it "Brazilian" jiu-jitsu for nothing. Brazil has a huge influence in the martial arts world, and it would make for some great grappling action that could easily grab some attention locally as well as internationally.
MMA, however, won't likely get the nod any time soon. There are a number of concerns when it comes to trying to think about MMA in the Olympics, but the IOC would easily push safety as the number one priority. If we add the number of participants to the amount of time it would take to finish the competition within the context of the question of safety, it almost becomes a near impossibility.
For example, what countries have MMA fighters? North America would have a participant from nearly every country. U.S., Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Croatia, Lithuania, Japan, China, Phillipines, Russia, Poland, Germany, England, Ireland, Finland, Sweden... even Iceland (Gunnar Nelson, baby!). The list goes on and on. The field would be enormous, and the amount of time it would take for such a competition would likely span the Olympic Games timeframe. That's, at least, doable.
But how does the Olympic committee view boxing right now? They view it as a tremendous safety hazard when it comes to wearing headgear due to the many bouts fighters must fight over the course of the tournament. MMA fighters wearing headgear isn't exactly a part of the competition that is MMA, and it would basically look like what Combat Sambo tournaments look like in Russia. The problem is that it somewhat degrades the striking attributes of stand-up fighters who happen to have tremendous takedown defense, and it makes for a much more unlikely outcome of a TKO. While most would say that the stand-up fighter would still win based on points, those finishes are a part of the sport.
Furthermore, this would be a Grand Prix tournament of epic proportions. Not only are we talking about a huge field of fighters, but one fighter is going to have to run through possibly a 32-man field of fighters or at least a round-robin style of battle. That's the possibility of five fights or even more fights in round-robin action in a span of two weeks to maybe a month? Not possible. It could easily affect the outcome of who was actually the most skilled fighter.
Of course, there are always solutions. Hold Olympic qualifying bouts to keep the number of fighters entering to 16. Hold preliminary rounds before the Olympics to only hold the semifinals and finals at the Olympics. That could solve all the time table problems as forementioned. Ultimately however, the problem with the headgear likely won't be solved, and I doubt the IOC will rally behind a sport as brutalizing as MMA even though we could easily say some of the sports at the Olympics are much more dangerous. I mean, have you seen how nuts those lugers are?
It'd be nice to think MMA fighters could come home with the gold medal, and it would give MMA a boost in the public eye as a legitimate sport. Unfortunately, it isn't going to happen any time soon.
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I wouldn’t mind MMA as an Olympic sport in the future. Unfortunately, I don’t think the amateur infrastructure exists to support that notion.
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You wouldn’t even need an amateur infrastructure. They make exceptions all the time.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 2, 2009 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions
MMA in the Olympics would be disastrous at worst and pointless at best. Beside that, it would never get approved by the IOC.
Now BJJ or submission grappling I could get down with. (And I bet the IOC could, too.)
See, I think for 2016 we only have one real option…VALE TUDOOOO!!!!
by casey manrique on Oct 2, 2009 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions
yes on bjj
but mma tournaments wouldn’t work due to the damage sustained in the fights, as well as they headgear and boxing clothes they’d most undoubtedly have to use ( I love bully beatdown but don’t want it in the olympics)… lastly, there’s no way in hell the ufc would let their fighters participate.
by cagefightonacid on Oct 2, 2009 6:22 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
*the headgear and boxing gloves
by cagefightonacid on Oct 2, 2009 6:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
There’s no real way to safely have an entire MMA tourney in the Olympics – look at how fubar a simple day-long, 4-man tournament gets, then extrapolate that across several weight divisions & many more competitors.
Now, there’s also no excuse why BJJ isn’t in there. It’s akin to judo & wrestling, both of which are Olympic sports already.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Oct 2, 2009 6:24 PM EDT reply actions
Take a look at the way the IOC has screwed with Judo and given them wussy rules. MMA is better off out of the IOC’s clutches.
This.
I’m not in the camp that says “sport” judo should be rolled back all the way to old-school long matches and only scoring for ippons, but the IOC’s influence has watered down what was already a great martial art that transitioned to a great sport with some absolutely inane rule changes.
I don’t do BJJ, but I’d hate to see the same thing happen to it. Ditto for MMA.
Is it the IOC that’s changed the Judo rules? And were they changed in the interest of safety? I’d always heard that the changes were made in an attempt to make Judo more throwing-centric and thus more aesthetically pleasing. More of spectator sport.
by JRN on Oct 2, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Officially, all the changes are made by the International Judo Federation, but they’re under constant pressure from the IOC to make judo “less boring.”
There were definitely some changes made in the interest of safety. The two most recent that I can think of off-hand are banning kani-basami (flying leg scissors) after someone broke Yamashita’s leg trying to do it to him and they clarified the rules around Kawazu-Gake a few years ago. But the things that people complain about are little tweaks to competition that favour “stand up judo” or “exciting judo.” Most recently, they started testing out banning attacks that target the legs (what would be a double leg in wrestling, etc).
Ironically, since we’re talking about BJJ in the Olympics, they’ve severely cut down the time for groundwork in competition over the years in an attempt to make things more exciting for non-grapplers.
I don’t think MMA will get into the Olympics, for all the reasons Leland mentioned. However, BJJ/submission grappling might fit in there. It’s a lot easier to run a grappling tournament than an MMA tournament would ever be.
by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Oct 2, 2009 6:26 PM EDT reply actions
Btw, I seem to recall MMA was in talks to get into the Athens Olympics in 2000 under the title ‘pankration’. If memory serves, it was one of the last sports to be cut from the schedule.
by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Oct 2, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Jujitsu, or grappling ADCC style. But it could be redundant with judo and wrestling, jujitsu is a good idea, and it’s getting more and more popular.
You don't look like a Tanaka.
It wouldn’t be completely redundant. Wrestling is more about positioning and pinning, while judo focuses on the throws. Submission grappling is on the submissions. It would be like having separate TKD, kickboxing, and MT events – similar, but not identical, rules.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Oct 2, 2009 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
(1) Just because it’s IOC-recognized doesn’t mean it’s in the Olympics (see korfball). This still regulates BJJ/MMA to third-tier status, but really, korfball isn’t an Olympic event.
(2) The issue with MMA – like boxing – is that it would be an amateur event. That’s why you get all the protective gear. To MMA purists, MMA with headgear isn’t MMA due to the obvious disadvantage against strikers/striking. But it would be a necessity in the Olympics. You could argue that it should be a no protective gear bout (except mouthguard and cup) but for a shorter time, thus minimizing the risk of cuts/injury (eg. 3×2-minute rounds or 2×3-minute rounds) and intentionally focusing on the scoring. Given the current debate about the 10-point must system in MMA, this is more likely to satisfy IOC than it is MMA fans.
(3) BJJ or submission grappling would be a reasonable addition, and the ADCC event last weekend is a great example that such an event can happen in a reasonable time frame and without injury.
(4) Has anyone given thought to combat sambo in place of MMA? Seems to be a reasonable compromise which keeps many elements of MMA while not disregarding LEGITIMATE safety concerns on the part of the IOC to complete the event in a timely fashion. (Yes, I know combat sambo is mentioned in the original post, but I’m trying to make a point here about it being a reasonable middle ground.)
by random_asshole on Oct 2, 2009 6:47 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
(2) Actually, exceptions are made in many other sports, and it could be done in MMA if it were a sport. But really, that’s a moot point. MMA won’t get put into the Olympics because safety standards are so high that MMA wouldn’t even be considered.
(4) Combat Sambo would work, but I imagine the IOC has some huge problem with smaller gloves.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 2, 2009 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions
The problem for boxing in the olympics isn’t the fact that it’s amateurs or the headgear. It’s the absolutely terrible scoring system that makes absolutely no sense (I liked the new wrinkle last year, have scoreboards so the fans in the arena and on tv can see the scores, but it’s illegal to tell the fighters, wtf?)
There are probably some ways that it could be done to make it work, but since they have so horribly screwed up mma’s cousin boxing (and apparently judo from reading the comments) I’m really afraid to see what would happen.
IOC would outlaw specific submissions as soon as something happened, guaranteed.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 2, 2009 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you mean the amateur aspect?
Leland,
I’m not sure I understand why #2 is a moot point. Are you referring to the fact that other sports (like basketball) allow professional athletes to play in the Olympics?
If so, that doesn’t ignore the issue about respecting “amateur” rules. My point was less about the participants and more about the rules (rounds, protective gear, etc).
As for safety standards, I accept that many MMA athletes (and yes, they are athletes) can’t fight more than once every 3+ months due to injuries sustained in competition. Some can (eg. Jeff Monson), but it depends on the fighter and the competition (and the type of fighter, eg. A. Silva and Machida). There’s no way that works for the Olympics.
by random_asshole on Oct 2, 2009 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Because MMA isn’t going to be a sport in the Olympics based on safety rather than amateur aspects. IOC is way more concerned with safety.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 2, 2009 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd like to echo the excellent points raised by more prompt commentators above.
MMA in the Olympics is more or less a nonstarter. Submission grappling would be a nice addition.
Hopefully the IOC (and international rules committees in general) can be influenced to work on fixing the various flaws in the rule sets for the combat sports they currently do utilize—people mentioned Judo and boxing above, but I’d like to state emphatically that the rules for wrestling, greco in particular, have been mucked up all to hell and need to be addressed..
"Yeah we came up short today but I'm cool with things." -- Juan Pablo Montoya
I think it would be quite awkward if MMA was included. Imagine some sort of point scoring system, due to headgear and shinguards being worn. With the small gloves, it would be so easy to land shots and scoring would be a nightmare. Similarly, how would they score submission atempts and the like, and how would the headgear affect this? I can imagine it would be watered down so much that it would barely resemble MMA. Submission grappling would be good though
Who would be leading the charge to get MMA into the Olympics? Sports don’t get added unless someone is really willing to sell it to the IOC. Dana? WAMMA? Internet bloggers can only go so far.
Well…
Dana wouldn’t be pushing for it. A month or so where some of his athletes fight in the Olympics could hurt his profits, although it could help him too. It’d be interesting to see what his side would be.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 2, 2009 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions
One of the rules for olympic admission is a world governing body and MMA has nothing close to it. Even BJJ might have some problems on that fron because I believe there are two organizations vying for the title of the sole governing body.
by greco-roman airlines on Oct 3, 2009 5:16 AM EDT up reply actions
we have heard dana in the past mention mma eventually being an olympic sport….
i wonder if hed be prepared to allow his stable of fighters to compete for thier respective nations
My thoughts exactly.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 2, 2009 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I think most of the UFC fighters wouldn’t want to fight in the Olympics anyway. Having to fight five times in the span of a week won’t exactly sound terribly appealing to fighters used to taking months between fights.
by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Oct 2, 2009 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions
MMA in the Olympics remains pointless and I would hate to see it. Olympic Boxing hardly even qualifies as boxing.
Submission grappling would be better but I don’t think that somehow just because the event is in Rio it means that it should be rushed.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 2, 2009 9:14 PM EDT reply actions
Olympic Boxing hardly even qualifies as boxing.
This.
I remember watching some matches during the last games and it’s basically reduced to point sparring matches. Except that some of the points are never awarded because some of the judges don’t have fast enough reaction time to press their Olympic PlayStation controllers which decide who wins and loses.
I don’t think there’s a way that MMA even gets sniffed at as an event. And if it did it would probably be neutered to the point that it barely looks like MMA.
Sub grappling/BJJ has a way better chance, especially now that FILA holds grappling events now.
I posted a tweet on this when they first announced it:
Since the olympics will be in Rio,could they include BJJ as a special sport? China did it for Wushu, so why not BJJ? Right? Of course I am.
BJJ all of a sudden being an olympic sport is highly unlikely.. They should build it up slowly.. Make it a special sport first, then maybe if it’s a success, the Olympic committee could pick up on it after.
now MMA being an olympic sport, I don’t think that will happen anytime soon.
Pankration
One of the first MMA organisations was the Pancrase… one of the first olympic sports EVER was pankration, where pancrase got its name.
I think condensing all the fighters in a GP would take a lot of time… maybe if some day the EU becomes a superstate it’ll be easier.
Theres just one problem… the bronze medal. In olympics you need to pit the losers of the semi-finals against eachother and the winner of that fight would have to fight the loser of the finals if he didn’t fight him in the semi’s already.
I can see grappling (maybe not BJJ/JJ per se) becoming olympic though, with ADCC as an officially recognized world championship. This would also bring more attention to MMA if people like GSP show up and the commentators and media mention their MMA background.
The original pankration would probably have satisfied even the most blood-thirsty ‘MMA purists’ who look to the first UFC’s and the original Vale Tudo tournaments as the ‘real’ MMA. Quite a few of modern MMA techniques were already in evidence, but the rules were, in some ways, even looser than the original UFC rules.
by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Oct 3, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I support MMA becoming an Olympic sport. The sports in the Olympics are supposed to represent what is happening around the world in terms of athletics. Well, MMA is a very popular sport around the world now, much more popular than a lot of the other things that are shown in the Olympics…like curling, air-pistol target shooting etc.
I say so-what if they change some rules around. I would rather have the respect and acknowledgment of MMA becoming an Olympic event from the world than not have it. Dont forget, there are still a lot of people saying that MMA isn’t a sport and that it is basically blasphemous to say so. It would do a lot for the sport to get the official recognition of being in the Olympics, which could then shut up the nay-sayers.
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