The UFC's Desperation Matchmaking
by Michael Rome on Oct 19, 2009 4:00 PM EDT
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Is the UFC's matchmaking becoming desperate as a result of too many shows? I make the case over at Heavy.com:
...Anderson Silva is supposedly fighting Vitor Belfort in the main event of the Ultimate 2009 in a fight that nobody seems to care about. Belfort scored a strange knockout of Rich Franklin at UFC 103, and Dana White leapt to schedule a fight between The Phenom and The Spider. The response from MMA fans was deafening silence, because nobody believes Belfort has a chance, and everyone knows this is being forced down our throats far too quickly. The reason? They have no other main event for their New Year’s show.
A lot of these problems were foreseeable months ago. I pointed out in June that the decision to put Rashad and Rampage on TUF would leave the Fall without any meaningful main events, and we all see how weak a number of the shows look as the year comes to a close.
It’s these desperation fights that seem to do the most damage. If Rashad Evans and Randy Couture both lose their next fights, the UFC better hope Lesnar wins or it could be a rough 2011.
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I dunno, I sorta care and think it’s a decent fight… :O
by nastyem on Oct 19, 2009 4:03 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Me too
I don’t understand the argument about how no one believes Belfort can win… Who can? I’m excited for this fight.
I STILL poop rainbows.
yeah, what the hell?!
i’ve been drooling since i knew vitor was back…. i think saying fans aren’t interested is reaching
by cagefightonacid on Oct 19, 2009 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the casual run of the mill fan may not be hyped about it cause they don’t know any better. Honestly, I never heard of Vitor until Affliction and after he dismantled Lindland, I come to find out later he has a wicked history. The casual fan probably will only go as far as highlight reels from UFC promos to see who these “new” fighters are.
He took out Wanderlei….didn’t know that. You think the big guy in the TapOut shirt w/ the Yuengling knows that?
But anyway…..I’m excited!
i feel you
but i’m not a casual fan and i guess i just think…
The response from MMA fans was deafening silence, because nobody believes Belfort has a chance, and everyone knows this is being forced down our throats far too quicklyis baseless and unfair. i love the spider, but i do believe belfort can win. saying it’s being crammed down our throats and met with deafening silence?! i think that’s ridiculous. maybe because i have known of vitor for years, but it seems like only one opinion is being expressed here.
by cagefightonacid on Oct 19, 2009 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I hate articles like this...
If they think this is such a problem, please outline exactly what the UFC should do with a guy like Anderson Silva (or GSP, or BJ, or eventually Machida and Brock). Is it that bad having the absolute best fighter at that weightclass? Sure, challenging, but there are worse problems to have.
Mike never said that the UFC is doing anything wrong. Rather that they’re stuck making matches that people don’t seem to care about too deeply (yes, of course we all do as hardcore fans) and it’s very risky if the other major stars start to fall. The UFC has been clearly scrambling for main events recently and as such things are only going to get harder if their stars don’t keep winning.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 19, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually, no.
The thing that has made the UFC great is that they make stars out of the winners of their big fights. If they start down the path that certain fighters must win to move the promotion forward, then they are moving closer to the EXC model and away from the their more survivable method of doing business.
Henderson and Marquardt are no better match ups, especially since they both lost badly to Anderson. GSP could be good, but the truth is he stands to be as dominated by Anderson (mostly for physical size related reasons) as BJ was by him, and thus deflating another champion. And while Frank Mir is interesting, does anyone see that going much different than Forrest Griffin?
The problem is that Anderson makes ANYONE who is a possible match for him look like they will lose badly.
I agree with that. The stars don’t have to keep winning, the best fighters keep winning and the UFC starts making them stars. You just know they’re trying to get Machida into TUF. One of the big things about Anderson is that he hasn’t learned English. That makes a big difference.
But BJ wasn’t deflated when he lost to GSP (unless you’re talking about him physically). He’s all in tip top shape and he’s raring to go. I think he looks great. And I still want a fight between GSP and Spider. I know people say whatever, I think he’s the guy that can Hendo him in the first round, keep in there, do some damage, and he’s hopefully quick enough to avoid damage standing. He has guys like Rashad and Nate to train with. I think it’s a great fight.
I'm excited to see Anderson demolish Vitor...
and I like Vitor, and think he probably has a good a shot as anyone. As to the general premise of the story…I think the UFC has been extremely successful in making stars out of average fighters, they just don’t do a good job making stars out of the best fighters, the REAL stars. I thought the Lyoto countdown showed some potential in this regard, but the pay-per-views, IMO, are handled in a very rushed and anonymous fashion. There’s no backstage stuff, there’s no backstory or personal stuff with most fighters, aside from whatever tidbits Goldie and Rogan managed to squeeze in, and it’s a huge wasted opportunity in my view. You’ve got a captive audience, who’ve actually PAID money, or at least gone out to a bar or something, to see the event. But all the UFC gives you is the event. They need to take a cue from the Olympics broadcasts, and give each fighter a bit of story. As it is, it’s just rushed, and if I’m watching one with people who are only casual fans, I’m the one who ends up doing all the PR and marketing for the fighters. Otherwise, it’s just, this guy’s a middleweight kickboxer, his opponent, Exhibit B, is a wrestler. Now fight! I’m sure there are other options for accomplishing this, but right now, the UFC does a horrendous job of this. How many casual fans of the sport spend a lot of time randomly watching Spike TV to catch old fights, or the countdowns?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 19, 2009 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I see what you’re saying, and though I sort of agree, when I’m watching I can’t wait to see the fights and sort of just put up with any of the in between stuff. If they could do that in a way that is really entertaining and substantial, then yeah, otherwise, I gotta admit, I wanna see fights the night of.
Yeah I totally understand your point. Maybe something leading into the broadcast would be enough. Otherwise, the whole thing may drag on far too long, and break the momentum of the fights. I just know that for people only watching the occasional pay per view, there isn’t really anything to get you to care about the fighters themselves.
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 20, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah totally. Like a 20 minute special before the fight starts featuring 4 of the fighters, or at least the fighters that they are trying to build up. I suppose maybe they could get away with having a quick 5 or 10 minute clip before the main event maybe. Might serve to build the anticipation a little bit.
Time to bring in FWs and BWs. Enough screwing the little guy already. The UFC needs them to fill main cards up
I'm with that
Though I don’t agree that the UFC is in any trouble. They almost always find a way to stack up cards.
I STILL poop rainbows.
by Blackout612 on Oct 19, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thats what this whole article is about. Maybe we wouldnt have Couture vs Vera main events if Brown vs Aldo or Bowles vs Cruz was headlining instead
I’m very skeptical about how a UFC main event with Brown vs. Aldo or Bowles vs. Cruz would be received. Not saying they are not deserving of headlining UFC events, but I’m not sure how much business sense it will make – at least short term.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
That the thing though
Short term is just to build up the weight classes so they can pay dividends in a year or two. Get some names out there.
Yep.
Say you have a match like Franklin/Ortiz (I can’t be the only one who wants to see this) as top billing on a card but before that fight is Brown/Aldo, and this fight turns out to be absolutely electrifying… boom, you have a solid card you maybe use to debut in a new place like Miami or something.
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Oct 19, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly what I was getting at...
thanks for actually elaborating and explaining it better!
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
Not so fast…..
If you want to properly bring in the FW and BW champs you will have to piggy back their title fights onto a regular title PPV. This will give them the exposure they need to succeed on their own.
I agree with you.
With all the added events, you’re going to have some less than huge pay-per-views, they have shows already that are weaker draws. You need to treat the FW and BW champions and contenders equally as the heavier classes, otherwise you’re diminishing them in a way, rather than building them up. A title fight before the main event? That’s conveying the impression that these lighter classes aren’t quite legit, or as important as the others. The last ten WEC title fights speak for themselves in terms of their excitement and marketability. Casual fans watching on t.v. aren’t going to notice the size difference much anyway, especially with the speed and explosiveness these guys seem to consistently bring. Faber/Pulver, Torres/Maeda, Torres/Mizugaki, Condit/Miura, Brown/Faber II, Varner or Henderson/Cerrone. These fights will sell themselves just fine if treated with the respect they deserve. Any one of those beats most UFC title fights of the past year or two…
by Kwisatz Haderach on Oct 19, 2009 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I like this match up
I haven’t heard anyone complain. After all that was the big attraction with Belfort (how he matches up with Anderson Silva). I would call it desperation at all.
I like it too, there is really no one else for Silva right now, and I really want to see Hendo vs Marquardt before they get another shot at the spider. So besides these two, Belfort is the best they got really (besides Okami of course, but we know that ain’t happening haha).
SHOGUN WILL SLAY THE DRAGON!!!
SHOGUN TO BE THE NEW LHW CHAMP!!!
Lesnar losing would probably be good for business:
1. Carwin can now sell a PPV simply based on the fact that he is now the HW champion, and sell about 400K on the back of that alone.
2. Lesnar can sell a card without a title on the line and probably pull a 750k minimum.
3. Lesnar would more than likely fight between 1-2 times in 2010 before getting another shot at the title for the NYE card while Carwin has sold 1 or 2 of his own shows.
4. By 2011 you have now built the fact that Lesnar can lose, and there are 3-4 guys who can beat him, and watching any of those guys fight is worth paying for.
I'm old school hating Lesnar, I've been hating Lesnar since '08
MMA Payout
is predicting that 106 will do 1 mil buys and could go as high as 1.5 mil. brock losing would not be good for business. :)
i dont understand that line of thinking. i would say that chuck liddell losing was good for business. how many more PPVs were they able to sell with Chuck Liddell as a head liner WHILE the LHW was off selling PPVs all on its own. it almost seems like nobody is marketable in MMA unless they are or were a UFC champion.
I'm old school hating Lesnar, I've been hating Lesnar since '08
because in general
people don’t like losers. It’s only natural that once a champion loses he’ll most likely lose a good chunk of his fanbase, whether people like it or not, casual fans are quick to jump ships once shit hits the fan!
SHOGUN WILL SLAY THE DRAGON!!!
SHOGUN TO BE THE NEW LHW CHAMP!!!
It’s not natural.
People still pay to see Chuck and Randy fight, they always have, and those two guys have a string of losses. Brock’s first loss didn’t hurt him as a draw, I don’t see why you would be so sure that another one would.
even though brock is the big dog now, he still hasn’t established himself enough to be compared to randy and chuck. people would still pay to see brock, even if he lost, but not nearly as much. probably half.
plus his 1rst loss didn’t hurt him as a draw, b/c it was only his second fight against a former champ and was very contraversial. if he were to say, get knocked out by carwin in 1 rnd, alot will say he is overrated or has a glass jaw, and not nearly as many people would pay to see him fight again. brock is the new oscar delahoya, he can fight just about anyone and still pull in a million ppv’s, but it took oscar alot of impressive wins and media hype to get him there.
Both Randy and Chuck are from the old days of the UFC, they have grown a huge fanbase from early UFC viewers, much like Wandy who have fans from his Pride days. No matter how bad he loses, I’ll still watch him fight. Brock is from the new era of the UFC, but he’s also bringing some WWE fans with him. other fighters that do not have these earlier fanbase will lose much of their fans once they begin to lose. Soko was starting to do really well increasing his fan base before he began to lose, now he’s not a big draw (he was starting to be though).
SHOGUN WILL SLAY THE DRAGON!!!
SHOGUN TO BE THE NEW LHW CHAMP!!!
Soko is completely different. Soko gained his popularity from pride, so any momentum he was gained can not in any way be compared to anything that Brock has done.
Wandy gained his momentum in Pride, and he pulls big numbers.
SHOGUN WILL SLAY THE DRAGON!!!
SHOGUN TO BE THE NEW LHW CHAMP!!!
I'm not saying he was
he was growing a fan base. Look at Houston, it might be a better example, he was also growing a fan base. The casuals were calling for him to get a title shot, the stadium used to cheer louder than most new comers, people had his picture in the stadiums which is not usual for new comers either. and then he started losing. and now he’s not a draw :P
SHOGUN WILL SLAY THE DRAGON!!!
SHOGUN TO BE THE NEW LHW CHAMP!!!
brock is a bigger draw NOW than chuck and randy ever were, due to this aura of invincibility. it’s kinda like fedor, once either loses, they will lose that aura and will have a hard time getting it back. and people still paid to chuck and randy, even after losing, but how many and what were the circumstances? randy had taken a year off after his back to back losses from chuck and tim was hated. so that fight had the perfect set-up. i ‘d say both fighters lost buys/ ticket sells after losses. hell randy is going to be on the free show after consecutive losses. so if brock is able to pull in a million while winning, his value would decrease as a draw if he lost. he still might sell, but it could drop as much as 1/2 or more. thats bad business for the ufc. it wouldn’t kill them, but it would be a setback for awhile. jmo.
The 1/2 number is completely ridiculous. Besides the heel aspects that ufc4 mentions, 1/2 won’t just give up. Maybe some will give up, but that will be offset by how many people jump on the Carwin bandwagon, and there will be more people who will be pissed about it and want to see Brock come back and beat Carwin. You are greatly overestimating how many people will disappear.
thats b/c you are putting way to much emphasis on that #. 1/2 is just guesstimation from me. you are greatly underestimating the value of of brock’s overall appeal as a dominant champion. why else would people be pissed that he lost. people wont jump on carwins bandwagon, they will just go back to saying the ufc’s hw division is still weak.
You're missing the point
A lot of people buy the card HOPING to see Brock lose. Brock is a bad guy, people don’t like him. Him losing isn’t going to hurt his PPV sales one bit.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Oct 19, 2009 5:49 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
NO WAY
id be willing to bet more people pay to see brock win than lose ANYDAY, especially his wrasslin crossover fans. i’m not missing the point at all. just b/c he got booed in vegas (mirs hometown) doesn’t mean that he is the heel EVERYWHERE ELSE. he was cheered lustlfully IN MINNESOTA and i’d be willing to be he has more fans than than not. ALOT MORE. people DO NOT pay more to root for a fighter to lose. thats crazy!
It’s funny that you make sure to point out that Lesnar got booed in Mir’s hometown yet when you say that Lesnar got cheered in Minnesota you completely fail to mention that that’s HIS hometown.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Oct 19, 2009 8:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
actually i meant to. for real. just forgot to put it in. fighting in his hometown was a b andig deal i don’t think vegas speaks for the rest of the world, but i will admit that you could be right that there are just as many that pay to see him lose as win. some fans see that he has a big size advantage and has achieved alot so soon, being given too much credit so soon.he can be a bit of a cad as well. i didn’t take those ideas into consideration when i was posting. so i’ll be big enough to admit that I COULD BE WRONG about brock being a big a heel as he is a fan favourite. :P
Yeah, I mean Brock definitely has his supporters (like me) but I think he has just as many if not more people who really don’t like him and are rooting against him every time out. Former pro wrestler, beat one of the biggest fan faves of all time (Couture), talks a ton of shit, he’s the perfect heel.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
BROCKLESNAR
is universally loved. I will not be told any different.
'He built his whole reputation as a waffle house chef. They’ve been serving him up ham and eggs with a side of canned tomatoes' - Don Frye on Fedor Emelianenko
by Well Read Idiot on Oct 20, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
YOU LIE!Plus following the pro wrestling meme -
He is a UNSTOPPABLE MONSTER heel.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
*an
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
i would have to do some research to back it up with PPV buys, and well… i’m just not going to, but i would suspect that in MMA (much like in business when buying a large property, breaking down a large property and selling off its parts is worth more than the whole) that separating your big stars from the belts (for a time) is more financially rewarding. here is my example
HW champ Brock Lesnar vs Shane Carwin= 1.25 mil buys (as main event)
Shane Carwin vs Gonzaga = 150k buys?
totaling 1.4 million buys over the span of 2 UFC PPV events
HW champ Shane Carwin vs Gonzaga = 600k buys
Brock Lesnar vs Gonzaga = 800k buys
totaling 1.4 million buys over the span of 2 UFC PPV events
the difference is no one complains about the headline in the PPVs and with the larger overall audiences you can build a bigger fan base.
DISCLAIMER – my numbers are all bull shit that i concieved in my head. dont bother arguing them, they are worthless number, but an attempt to show my line of thinking.
I'm old school hating Lesnar, I've been hating Lesnar since '08
I get what you're saying
I’m just talking in general though to each fighter and not each UFC card as a whole.
SHOGUN WILL SLAY THE DRAGON!!!
SHOGUN TO BE THE NEW LHW CHAMP!!!
Exception to rule : Tito Ortiz
"Did you feel you did well against Lindland?" "
Hell no.. I wanted to break the law"
---Rampage
by TearsofaClown on Oct 19, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
No, his mouth always wins.
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Oct 19, 2009 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions
If Lesnar loses here’s how you handle it.
Carwin must defend his title against next in line (Velasquez maybe?) and Brock must win his next match against…anyone. Now you have an epic rematch set up. It would do just as many ppv’s as the original if not more.
KIMBO!!!
He’s ready to fight and he just wants to “BANG”!
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
LOL
I was at Wal Mart last night with my GSP shirt from UFC 94 on and this guy who worked there was asking me about it then he was like “Here’s what’s gonna happen Kimbo is gonna win TUF and then fight Lesnar I know it!” so I just kinda nodded my head and slowly backed away.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Oct 19, 2009 5:57 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
haha
did he not watch the fight against Big Country?
SHOGUN WILL SLAY THE DRAGON!!!
SHOGUN TO BE THE NEW LHW CHAMP!!!
Apparently not, or maybe he thinks Roy just got lucky and Kimbo is gonna get another shot and KO everyone.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Oct 19, 2009 6:27 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
D'uh
Roy was just a “pussy” who didn’t want to “fight” like a “real fighter”…you just wait until someone comes in with the gameplan Kimbo wants him to fight with…then you’ll see, you’ll all see!
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
He wasn’t the #1 pick for nothing.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Oct 19, 2009 8:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I taut u agreed w/ me, bro.
I taut we wuz kool.
Dun lemme c u hea in cozmetiks or u gon git jewjitsued.
by MickDawg on Oct 19, 2009 6:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
ha
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Oct 19, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions
You assume that Carwin would actually beat Cain or Big Nog.
"Did you feel you did well against Lindland?" "
Hell no.. I wanted to break the law"
---Rampage
by TearsofaClown on Oct 19, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I thinks a definitely a desperation move but to me it’s a good one, can be as bad as Leites/Silva desperation blunder. I think if you’d want to look at it in a #2 or #3 in the UFC MW division, it doesn’t make since because those belong to Marquardt and Hendo but this brings a fresh feel to the division and could lead to a hell of a fight.
This will b a great fight
Desperate? Yes. Still a kickass matchup that I would pay to see?! Check. Vitor has been on a little steak as of late but won’t win this…although it should be great entertainment.
by NextAndersonSilva on Oct 19, 2009 4:14 PM EDT reply actions
I agree
I saw this coming a long time ago too. It’s too bad you can’t make all the champs from 185 and below move up a notch. That would bring about all kinds of wonderful matchups. I know it won’t happen but BJ could move up to WW and we’d be able to see him fight Fitc, Kos, etc. GSP moves up to MW and has to fight people like Nate, Okami, etc. And Silva would be forced to make a run at Lyoto.
"I will do nothing lightly. When I walk, I will walk heavily. When I fight, I will fight with conviction. When I speak, I will speak strongly. When I love, I will love with everything"
what was strange about the knock out of franklin? he went out cold face first while he was on his knees. it was pretty damn clear as day.
@mikefareri on twitter.
I think he means that the knockout was strange from a visual point of view. He caught him with a really sneaky punch (up around/behind the ear) that didn’t look that devastating – i.e. it was nothing like the Vitor – Lindland KO.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
Absolutely Agree
This “great” match is pure hype. I wonder what everyone will say when Belfort gets his clock cleaned?
Weak Cards?
Maybe 104 and 105 but 106,107, and 108 are all great cards to me.
Look at 106: Lesnar, Carwin, Griffin, Ortiz, Cane, Lil Nog , Fitch, Almeaida, Parysian, Hazelett
107:Penn, Sanchez, Mir, Kongo, Alves, P. Thiago, Guida, Florian
UFC 108: Silva, Belfort, Gonzaga, Dos Santos, T. Silva, Evans, Condit, Daley, T. Griffin
Maybe it will get worse after that but right now I think we are good plus later you can look forward to GSP’s return, Nog’s return, and who knows who else will emerge.
While these guys are all great fighters, how many of them are actually fighters that will entice someone to lay down $40-50 for a card?
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
lesnar, Carwin, Griffin, Ortiz
Penn, Mir, kongo, Florian, guida
Silva, Gonzaga, Dos Santos, Evans
Looks pretty good to me.
lesnar, Carwin, Griffin, Ortiz – Fully agree.
Penn, Mir, kongo, Florian, guida
Silva (yes, but have yet to see him sell a ppv on his own yet), Gonzaga, Dos Santos (maybe after the CC win??), Evans (Agree).
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
Sorry
And I could see KenFlo, but mainly as a “foil” for a bigger name.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
lesnar, Carwin, Griffin, Ortiz – Fully agree.
Penn, Mir, kongo, Florian, guida
Silva (yes, but have yet to see him sell a ppv on his own yet), Gonzaga, Dos Santos (maybe after the CC win??), Evans (Agree).
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
So you’ll admit to 4 on one of the cards, 2 and a half on teh second, and 2 and a half on the third one.
They’ve sold cards which much less than that, these cards are fine, and much better than some cards they have done in the past.
I’m not saying they aren’t solid cards, I was just pointing out that the initial list of 27 and the revised list of 13 were a bit “over-representative” of who are and are not “draws”.
Obviously 106 is a mega-card, no one is going to argue that. But after that you’ve got Penn/Mir carrying the load, which I don’t think will approach close to 1/2 the number of 106 (still not bad anyways) and A. Silva for all his talents is still not a reliable draw, so you’re looking to Rashad who is coming in hot off of TUF but against someone that is an interchangable fighter and not the guy he’s building heat with in Rampage.
They’re still going to do well but they aren’t exactly building up a whole lot of bulletproof draws to replace guys like Chuck and Randy in the long-term.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
while 106 can do 1 million +, I still think the latter two could do 600-800k which I doubt the UFC would complain about at all.
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Oct 19, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions
No argument there.
Especially seeing how Randy himself doesn’t draw over 500k iirc.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
There are only a few guys that will convince a normal fan to spend $50. Those names are: Chuck, Randy, Brock, and MAYBE Ortiz at this point. Penn is a fringe name still imo. Anderson has never been able to sell a show on his name only. We know Machida can’t. Rampage is or was getting there and Wanderlai is fringe as well. Forrest, same case.
Hardcores will plunk $50 on any show but it takes a HUGE name for a normal fan to consider purchasing.
I wouldn’t even say “normal” fan – most of the “normal” fans would be buying the ppv based on most of those names listed above. It’s those extra fans that are the real cream to draw in – there’s few fighters that interest “the general public” and that’s where they’re getting the 1.5+m type buys from.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
Only 635,000?
What a bum! He’s so boring…
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
Besides if Silva vs. Belfort is boring who can Silva face that is not boring
Do you really think Hendo can get a ko on Silva like he did on Bisping?
Or do you think Nate is gonna do to Silva what he did to Maia?
They deserve title shots but the fact is if they do Hendo/Silva 2 people are gonna expect the UFC 100 Hendo and more likely they’re gonna get the UFC 93 or 88 Hendo.
And same with Marquadt.
I think in time casual fans (since that’s what we’re talking about) will be interested by this main event, at least they should.
You don't look like a Tanaka.
I don’t think so. Most people don’t have a clue who Vitor is and Anderson still can’t headline a card by himself. Maybe things will change after his last fight with Forrest but would need to see some numbers indicating that he is trending higher..
They should have a Vitor special Unleashed on Spike. Show the fights against Wanderlei, Eastman, the second with Randy and the Franklin fight. Pump that a couple times before TUF, he’ll garner at least a little more name recognition.
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Oct 19, 2009 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions
You mean a rough 2010?
The UFC will figure things out. It doesn’t matter either way to me. I will always buy their PPV cards because the talent is so deep. I don’t need super fights to continue to be interested. Anderson Silva has never fought Vitor Belfort and that’s a good enough reason for me to be interested.
yeah, I don't get it.
I don’t care if Anderson Silva was fighting Demian Maia, GSP fought Paul Daley or BJ Penn fought Clay Guida . . . I don’t see desperation. All I see are fights that may or may not be interesting. It’s a fight featuring some really great top talent.
Then again there are some fans that are complaining about Fedor vs Rogers on CBS. That fight is free!
Check out my recent MMA drawings on my blog, drop a comment, or subscribe via RSS for updates http://www.scritchandscratch.com/blog/?tag=mma
by VeeisAnimated on Oct 19, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Desperation?
106,107,108 are all great cards. And 105 is on FREE TV.
I wanna see Rome bitch about ANY Strkeforce card.
by GoldenOldie on Oct 19, 2009 5:18 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Anderson Silva is supposedly fighting Vitor Belfort in the main event of the Ultimate 2009 in a fight that nobody seems to care about. Belfort scored a strange knockout of Rich Franklin at UFC 103, and Dana White leapt to schedule a fight between The Phenom and The Spider. The response from MMA fans was deafening silence, because nobody believes Belfort has a chance, and everyone knows this is being forced down our throats far too quickly. The reason? They have no other main event for their New Year’s show.
There are so many things wrong with this, that I could have sworn it was a UFC hater fan post. The idea that no one cares about seeing this fight is ridiculous on all counts.
Vitor just came off back to back great knock outs over very tough fighters. Anderson also just came off a great KO and this is a fight many people are excited about and Dana was right to once again give the people what they want to see.
No one is forcing anything on anybody and the idea that lesser fights have been hyped on here for anyone to question this one is beyond me. Also to claim that supposedly there are no other Main Events, really reeks of this arrogant attitude that I again expected from some UFC hater not a guy like Rome.
UFC 108 is a great card from top to bottom with lots of great fights and a damn good main event. You want to talk about desperation save that for a Dream or Strikeforce card not another stacked UFC show. People really need to stop playing fantasy mma bookmaker and let the pro’s handle things because no matter how delusional you are you can’t do better than Joe Silva does.
I personally really wanted to see Belfort vs Silva after Belfort KOed Lindland, but I believe the writer is referring more towards the casual fan. From what I have been reading on MMA forums though, many fans are extremely interested in seeing Belfort vs Silva, so I don’t know where this “deafening silence” is coming from unless the writer was speaking to casual fans. Who else can fight Anderson for the Middleweight Title and be a draw though because the other candidates are Marquardt, Henderson, and Okami? The rematches are not very appealing and a fight with Okami is not appealing as well. I don’t really see where the “desperation” comes from by booking Belfort vs Silva. Also, I can’t really think of any real “draws” in the Middleweight Division to begin with, so I don’t see where the “desperation” is from booking Belfort vs Silva.
I don’t know if I would call Silva vs Belfort “Desperation Matchmaking”.
I’m really excited to see that fight and will buy it. Those who truly love MMA should be interested in that match-up. I also think it’s funny that Anderson’s camp has been saying that Vitor doesn’t deserve a title shot because of weight issues…
Wasn’t that because he was trying to bulk up for a potential shot at Fedor prior to his Franklin bout?
I think it’s stupid that they even brought up the idea of weight issues considering he barely missed and made it easily the second time.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Oct 19, 2009 8:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Something always works out. This is the short sightedness that ultimately sunk Elite ExC.
If Brock loses to Carwin, you now have a young star in the making. You have Brock, who’s fanbase is probably staying put as long as he keeps fighting, and you have Carwin who beat the guy that no one thought anyone could beat. Then you have a potential rematch down the road that would get giant numbers. PPV numbers will always fluctuate as you get new talent in there, but over the long run it works out for the best.
Look at Chuck vs Rampage 2. You could easily say "Well the UFC needs Chuck to win because he’s their PPV star. But he didn’t and what happened? Chuck kept selling PPV’s and Rampage went on to become a star. Same when Rashad beat Chuck. People might’ve thought if Chuck lost they’d be sunk, but he kept fighting and still probably will and will still have great numbers. Rashad went on to become a star who can potentially headline in non-title fights and people will buy them.
And I’m one more guy that can’t wait for Vitor vs Anderson. You have to accept that not every card is going to be a PPV blowout. This is a great chance for Vitor to show what he can do.
I agree with you except for the part about Carwin being a young star in the making, dude isn’t young.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Oct 19, 2009 8:57 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
As far as I can tell, Rampage still hasn’t become a “bankable star” in terms of selling PPV’s. He’s alright when he’s paired up against someone else that’s a draw, but his PPV against Jardine was an outright flop if you’re counting on him to deliver “star quality” buys.
That being said, after two TUF starring roles maybe things will change – but him beating Chuck didn’t make him a superstar.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
No one believes Belfort has a chance!?!
But they though Cote, Leites, Irvin and Griffin did LMAO GTFO. I’m not riding the Belfort bandwagon but he has a helluva lot more chance then the folks I named. Name me the last person to destroy Rich Franklin that quickly……exactly.
I would say Belfort has just as good of a chance as anyone who had faced Anderson recently. No, people aren’t going out of their minds over this fight but is it any worse than Silva/Leites? I mean really. This type of match-making has been going on for some time. The PPVs are more frequent and most of the cards are less stacked. Everyone should understand this by now.
Personally, I would like to see fewer PPVs, but with more named talent and have a weekly fight card to replace TUF. The undercard guys they feed us on these week cards could get their work in on the weekly fight cards.
"It would appear that the strain was more than he could bear".- Doc Holliday
by MyFistYourFace on Oct 19, 2009 10:55 PM EDT reply actions
Foolish article
Especially concerning if Brock, Randy, and Rashad lose. They’ve already made their name and could still draw whether they lose or not. Carwin, Vera, and Thiago Silva on the other hand probably couldn’t if they lost but might make that leap with a good win.
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