Striptease: Should Strikeforce Vacate Alistair Overeem's Heavyweight Title?
by Mike Fagan on Oct 19, 2009 1:42 PM EDT
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124 comments
Alistair Overeem defeated Paul Buentello for the Strikeforce heavyweight championship on November 16th, 2007. Next month marks two years since Overeem stepped foot in the Strikeforce cage, precipitating calls from fans for Overeem to be stripped of the title.
I must ask: Why do we care?
Titles are an arbitrary entity fabricated by the men who run the sport. They provide no inherent or intrinsic value. They exist to increase promotional stature and provide a narrative framework for spectators.
I won't argue that title belts should go away, but their importance is highly overstated. Ultimately, we want to know who the king of the hill is. For the most part, the UFC title belts are the de facto designation of this accomplishment. If you want to prove your worth in the five major weight classes in the sport, the UFC provides the proper stage.
That being said, what importance does the Strikeforce title hold? Does anyone see a Strikeforce champion as a legitimate contender for the Best in World moniker? Even in a hypothetical future situation where Fedor Emelianenko holds the San Jose crown, it is Fedor and his accomplishments that maintain his status as the number one heavyweight in the world, not the strap of gold around his waist.
So when we get up in arms about Overeem's champion status, what injustice are we trying to right? Does Overeem gain or prevent others from gaining status in the MMA world as a dormant champion? Are people clamoring to see a Strikeforce Heavyweight Title Fight?
This isn't even a unique situation in MMA. Shinya Aoki last defended his Shooto middleweight title in February of 2007. Yet, I don't hear the cries of injustice for rank-and-file Shooto middleweights.
If Scott Coker strips Overeem of the title, I certainly won't blink an eye; it's been a long time coming. Yet, I feel like Allen Iverson waxing about practice. Strikeforce title? We talking about the Strikeforce title? We got the UFC, and you wanna talk about the Strikeforce title?
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No let him keep it, let him not defend it like Cung Lee.
for all intents and purposes, just consider all my posts as works of satire.
by Bandaka on Oct 19, 2009 1:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Two words.
Five rounds.
A man should never waste an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
by iiowyn on Oct 19, 2009 1:03 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
i’ve got to agree with this. yet i feel its a shame when an org. can have a 5 round fight between #15 & #25 in a weight class, when the UFC could have #2 & #5 fight in only a 3 round non title fight.
I'm old school hating Lesnar, I've been hating Lesnar since '08
by MicahW on Oct 19, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Title fights in other orgs gives guys 5 round experience for if they make it to a UFC title fight. Besides that, don’t you wish Fedor vs Rogers was 5 rounds (even though there is no way it goes past 3).
by HighNoon on Oct 19, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you bet i wish fedor vs rogers was a 5 rounder. every time you say there is no chance a fight goes to decision (chuck vs silva, silva vs leites, fedor vs crocop) … there is NO CHANCE fedor vs rogers goes to a decision and that is why i wish we had the extra 2 rounds, just in case.
I'm old school hating Lesnar, I've been hating Lesnar since '08
by MicahW on Oct 19, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think that’s as much of a problem as small time orgs having 5 round fights between the 292nd and 299th ranked fighters in a weight class.
by Phildo on Oct 19, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I made this point in all of the Overeem threads...
Nobody gives a shit about the belt, especially when the consensus thought is that the UFC belt is the real WORLD championship. Nobody cares if he’s stripped or not, so this article hits the nail on the head. It doesn’t matter. Match-ups matter, so if Overeem actually fights Rogers or Fedor, I’m all for it.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 19, 2009 1:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Obviously, fans care or else Cung Le and Overeem should be stripped debates wouldn’t have spawned this article. =)
by MMASuPreMaCy on Oct 19, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody cares, man. Get over it. I couldn’t care less if Cung Le was champ or not.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 19, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Technically, YOU may not care, other people may not care, but there are fans out there that care. Belts always mean something. Should the UFC thrown out their belts when PRIDE was on top? People still cared that Timmy or Arlovski was the UFC HW champ when PRIDE had Nog and Fedor as the champ.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Oct 19, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yup…agreed.
And the belt also gives casual fans a reason to watch.
by MickDawg on Oct 19, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How does it give them a reason to watch when it hasn’t been defended in 2 years?
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Oct 19, 2009 2:44 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Umm, maybe because the Strikeforce HW division was on hold for 2 years?
by MMASuPreMaCy on Oct 19, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You use the word “was” so in your opinion it’s not? AO still hasn’t defended therefore in that reasoning shouldn’t it still be on hold? To me you make it sound like all previous HW fights since that time were nothing, but now that Fedor is here it’s not being held up.
If you have 2 fighters in a weight class willing to fight on a promotions card, their division is not on hold. Those fighters may not become champion of said promotion but thee fighters are finding a place to fight and further their careers.
Twitter ain't no bitch homie! -> @El_Duderino1312
by midwestbred on Oct 19, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Strikeforce had NO HW matchups since Overeem won the belt in 2007. Not since SF signed a deal to purchase the Pro Elite assets and signed a deal with Showtime/CBS did they bring the HW division back, which was only a few months ago.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Oct 19, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That still doesn’t answer the question of how that gives fans a reason to watch. The division is apparently STILL on hold as there are no championship fight scheduled and the champ is tied up for the near future.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Oct 19, 2009 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
PRIDE and the UFC aren’t even comparable.
PRIDE didn’t have any stake in the US market at all, so the American casual fan CARED about the UFC belts because they were legitimate belts. But today… noone gives two shits about the Strikeforce belts because the UFC belts are the legitimate world titles. And the UFC brand name and reach confirm that.
And saying a fight is a title fight in STRIKEFORCE doesn’t make me want to see it any more than I already wanted to see it. All it does for is… okay, it’s five rounds.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 19, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are a hard core fan, not a casual fan. Brent said it best in one of his posts below.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Oct 19, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In my mind, their only worth right now is to make some five round fights
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 19, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who honestly thinks Rogers/Fedor will need the extra rounds?
by szucconi on Oct 19, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Noone, but I’m sure some fight will come along where people wil like the fact it’s 5 rounds in SF
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 19, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Besides, I don’t think CBS wants a 5 rounder. They want squash matches.
by szucconi on Oct 19, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is probably true but what if they can actually find someone to give Fedor a good fight, I think we’d all like to see as much of Fedor as we can. How disappointing would it be if one of his fights ended early because Overeem is too busy putting syringes in his butt?
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Oct 19, 2009 1:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
They want exciting finishes. To the MMA uneducated or in the case of network execs, just the uneducated, the best thing is quick spectacular KOs. I don’t think they really care about match making because the results could produce “boring” fights. They just want excitement. Fact.
by szucconi on Oct 19, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope
The ideal fight for any organization is a WAR for 3 or 5 rounds with an epic finish before the last round finishes. GUARANTEED!
by MMASuPreMaCy on Oct 19, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those are a crap shoot. They don’t want to plan for those. They want to create a high chance to finish and maybe a war. Because 5 rounds of nothing would kill stikeforce. They are not strong enough for that. rogers will likely finish or get finished quickly, that is why they made the match.
by szucconi on Oct 19, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or you can book Cung Le and Scott Smith.
=)
They are not strong enough for that. rogers will likely finish or get finished quickly, that is why they made the match.
Oh, and no, that is not the reason they made the match.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Oct 19, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unless you were in on the matchmaking process, which you weren’t, you’re just speculating like everyone else.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Oct 19, 2009 2:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Sure they do.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 19, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know… it’s probably a good thing Bonner/Griffin 1 wasn’t a squash match. Another fight like that but on CBS… good god
Twitter ain't no bitch homie! -> @El_Duderino1312
by midwestbred on Oct 19, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In hind sight, sure. Wars are great for business, but its hard to plan for that.
by szucconi on Oct 19, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree but that is an outcome one can hope when match making but I think to say CBS wants squash matches is incorrect. Why not try to build some name recognition with fighters win or lose to keep value for future broadcast cards. If they honestly want a fighter to take a piss pounding, they prolly don’t plan on using him again anytime soon.
Twitter ain't no bitch homie! -> @El_Duderino1312
by midwestbred on Oct 19, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That Kimbo – Petruzelli squash really worked out well for them last time! :) lol
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
by The_Gaijin on Oct 19, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good if nobody cares about Overeem’s title I guess people can stop writing up pieces like the one above and can look forward to two extremely overrated heavyweights fighting for the UFC title in November.
by scrambledeggs on Oct 19, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
People don’t care, but its a semantics argument that people like to have. Striping him make the Rogers/Fedor fight a five rounder and I think everyone doesn’t think it will get past one, making this a moot point. The next fight should be Fedor/Overeem so it doesn’t do any good to strip him or to not strip him. I guess you get pictures of Fedor with the strikeforce belt, but there are pics of him with a belt so you gain nothing, better to just not make waves or change the status quo.
by szucconi on Oct 19, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if you want to get to this boy’s soul, you got to pay the TROLL toll…
by amadeus on Oct 19, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
how do you want me to respond to the “two extremely overrated heavyweights fighting for the UFC title in November.” comment that was obviously intended for someone to argue… the inherent nature of trolling
by amadeus on Oct 19, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So if someone gives their opinion which you obviously disagree with they’re trolling?
Dude seriously you haven’t come across a real troll then.
And what do think everyone should share the same opinion as yours?
by scrambledeggs on Oct 19, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you saying I want to bang this little boy?
BOOSH
by Farthammer on Oct 19, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you replied to the wrong person.
by scrambledeggs on Oct 19, 2009 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Articles like this try to put a stop to every other discussion of AO leading to “well he hasn’t defended the belt in 2 years.” We know he hasn’t and this is why people should stop bringing it up because bottom line is it doesn’t matter all that much.
Twitter ain't no bitch homie! -> @El_Duderino1312
by midwestbred on Oct 19, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't really care about Overeem or the Strikeforce belt
But I would like to see Fedor, Werdum, Bigfoot, and a few other Strikeforce heavyweights in a 5 round scrap, and as long as Overeem holds the belt hostage, we don’t get to see the championship rounds.
by gocjeffe on Oct 19, 2009 1:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Is it a conspiracy?
for all intents and purposes, just consider all my posts as works of satire.
by Bandaka on Oct 19, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Paulo thinks it is
"Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity." - Bullet Tooth Tony
@deowade
by Deo Wade on Oct 19, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
lol’ed at this.
for all intents and purposes, just consider all my posts as works of satire.
by Bandaka on Oct 19, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s unfair to the other three heavyweights in the SF HW division.
Keep firing Assholes!
Never trust a man with no shirt on.
by Ubernoober on Oct 19, 2009 1:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
beat me to it
We may not really care, but it must hold some sort of value to the men in SF HW division.
I'm the kind of girl who loves to watch a GOOD fight!
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by funnytiger on Oct 19, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its matters because we want to see 5 round fights. Promoters use it to hype fights. I think it matters to the fighters as its nice to hold something up after a big win.
by ryanwk628 on Oct 19, 2009 1:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I seriously made a point just a few minutes ago about this and I think its ridiculous the outrage over Overeem being their Heavyweight Champion.
Overeem hasn’t been offered another fight for this year by Strikeforce and they know the meaningful fight is Overeem vs. Fedor. On top of that, Overeem is fighting for their partner in Japan, DREAM, shortly. They mucked up their booking with Fedor because they had no choice.
by D.W. on Oct 19, 2009 1:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That DREAM-Strikeforce “alliance” doesn’t really seem like much of a partnership at all, now does it?
In fact, I was talking to someone the other day who thinks DREAM may be actively trying to keep Overeem away from Strikeforce. It’s not like Alistair won a tournament to get into the K-1 WGP this year – FEG selected him (er, sorry, “fan voting”) and put him against a banged up Peter Aerts. Now he’s through to the next round and all tied up.
I know everyone’s getting heated that Alistair’s not defending his title, but there are a number of things to consider here. I think Overeem would be fighting MMA right now if he had his druthers.
by Chris Nelson on Oct 19, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well here’s the thing, they are latching onto SF in hopes they get big in the US. FEG isn’t dumb and they know US fans know little about k1 or DREAM.
Then itll be valuable to them. If not lol oh well.
by D.W. on Oct 19, 2009 1:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
(Strictly MMA, that is. And sorry, that wasn’t really a response to D.W., just a rambled spawned by the DREAM-Strikeforce comment. Also “talking to someone” = someone who’d know – I’m not with the conspiracy theory thing.)
by Chris Nelson on Oct 19, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think this is the case per say. I think FEG probably put him into the K-1 ordeal because they knew he could do some damage, he can play a heel, and it does keep him out of MMA in the States, but Overeem makes more money doing K-1 anyways. I see no reason why he should suddenly rush to fight for a title in SF when he makes bank in K-1 right now till the end of the tourney.
He’ll be in the US next year. If he drops out in early 2010, then I’ll jump on the wagon of “He’s being a bitch to American commissions” as opposed to ’ducking Rogers or Fedor".
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 19, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well..
FEG wants him in K-1 because he knocked out their new ace and lost a razor thin decision to their Grand Prix champion, Remy Bonjasky. A big, jacked up black guy wielding a giant mallet knocking everybody’s block off, FEG knows he is money to them.
I know the ‘fan voting’ seems suspect, but you take those two fights alone into account and he deserves a spot in the tournament, he beat their former HW champ and last year’s finalist and put up a great fight against the winner.
I firmly believe that FEG will start sending fighters over if Strikeforce does well on CBS. It is the Japanese way, claim they are allied with the STRONGEST~~!! and have nothing to do with it, just coming in after the hard work is done.
by D.W. on Oct 19, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s an interesting thought about them actually keeping Overeem out of fighting in SF.
I also have questions about this “alliance.” They’re sharing fighters, but they’ve been doing that for a while. I’ll be convinced if there’s a free exchange of fighters and we see some champions fighting in other orgs, or maybe some branding on a mat (I don’t really think the background of a press conference means that much).
by Phildo on Oct 19, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
People don’t pay attention, but it might be weird if they succeed at getting Fedor over to the CBS audience as the #1 HW in the world and then rbing in Overreem as the champion, but I don’t think it really matters.
I think that because the belt is what determines what is a 5 round fight, I’d rather them be defended than not. I’m not sure if it will be an issue in the Fedor/Rogers fight, but if it goes to a decision that isn’t a completely one-sided beat down, I think SF will have made bad choices with the belt.
by Phildo on Oct 19, 2009 1:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
At this juncture, where Overeem is actually contracted to come back, it would be silly to vacate the title of the only guy in Strikeforce who has a decent chance of putting up a real fight against Fedor.
by toxic on Oct 19, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, at this point it would be silly. But Fedor having a 3 round fight is a problem, that had a simple solution. The underlying problem is SF crowning Overeem as a champion without having him under contract and then not doing with him for a while.
Taking away the belt now would cause other problems, but it doesn’t excuse the fact that this is a bad situation.
by Phildo on Oct 19, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
People just plain don’t like Alistair Overeem, and think he’s roiding.
by IpullguardIRL on Oct 19, 2009 1:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
False, at least about the first part.
by szucconi on Oct 19, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is popular, but I wouldn’t say he’s “liked”. The majority of people seem to have negative things to say about him.
by IpullguardIRL on Oct 19, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love MEGAREEM
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 19, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
megareem POWNED tony silvester
It was like watching anderson silva fight a person with MS, no disrespect intended
by amadeus on Oct 19, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
MEGAREEM
… is the best nickname I’ve heard for him. I think he is perfect for the Japanese wrestling scene. His gimmick could be he turned into a mecha, the MEGAREEM, hitting little dudes with his mallet.
by D.W. on Oct 19, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still prefer Alisteroids.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Oct 19, 2009 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol you can have both. Alisteroids Megareem
This shirt is "dry clean only", which means it's dirty.
by SamCupitt on Oct 20, 2009 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OVEREEM SMASH!
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 21, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It doesn't matter because Strikeforce treats it like it doesn't matter.
Which is exactly why they will fail in their assumed attempt to become competition with the UFC.
If Strikeforce truly wants to become competition for the UFC, then they need to start taking their business seriously, and allowing things like the belts to be treated like wardrobe accessories by the like of Overeem and Le is not helping them.
I don’t care because its obvious that they don’t care.
by Razreshat on Oct 19, 2009 1:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
They can’t make the belt relevant when their division isn’t.
by omigawda on Oct 19, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Overeem is fighting James Thompson
at Dream 12, says Michael David Smith.
"He hit like a bitch."
by SMC on Oct 19, 2009 1:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
oh dear god..
At least we’ll get to see Overeem smash somebody to bits?
by D.W. on Oct 19, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lmao, seriously? What a joke.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Oct 19, 2009 2:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
RAWWWRR HULK SMASH!!!!
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 19, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I haven’t read through the entire comment area on this article, however…titles are important exactly BECAUSE “They exist to increase promotional stature and provide a narrative framework for spectators.” as you put it Mike. The value of championships for a promotion is very great. While most casual fans are still going to consider the UFC champion to be the “real” champion in the sport…the idea of a title being on the line and the pomp that comes along with it does entice viewers and give a sense of importance to both the fight and the winner. “I saw that guy win a championship…” …etc
Yeah, it may not matter to a hardcore fan. But titles are important in combat sports.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 19, 2009 2:11 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
I think Brent has it right. Fagan answered his own question in the article. Why do people care? Because titles “provide a narrative framework for spectators.” Us spectators like this framework, and when a guy doesn’t defend his title for 2 years, we don’t get it.
I strongly suspect that if Jamie Varner went over a year without defending, people would be calling for him to be stripped, even though everyone knows the WEC LW title is totally secondary.
by JRN on Oct 19, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, Brent..
The title will matter the most after Fedor makes his debut. Then the fight with Overeem will be worth $$$, as long as things go well.
Overeem against some schlub won’t do much for anybody right now.
by D.W. on Oct 19, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes it would...
because no one knows who the fuck Overeem is right now. He needs to be defending his title with impressive wins so that people WANT to see this dominant champion take on this unstoppable Russian.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 19, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is true, but it doesn’t answer the question of whether or not Overeem should be stripped.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Oct 19, 2009 2:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Why bother?
If SF strips Overeem they look dumb for not putting their HW champion under contract. At this point all you can blame on Overeem and GG is Overeem getting into a bar fight and messing up his thumb.
Their title has no real value right now, but when Fedor fights for it, the value will go up. I say hold off until you can book that fight and go for it. I mean they’ve waited this long.
by D.W. on Oct 19, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Disagreed...
Titles aren’t important in MMA unless it’s legitimately the WORLD title. Boxing is a bit different and people posture back and forth between specific association titles as which is the best, but MMA is different. EVERYONE knows the UFC titles hold the most water and are considered the WORLD title. Not just because they have more skillful fighters, but it’s more recognized by the casual fanbase (i.e. the bigger fanbase).
Sure, they provide a narrative framework. I get that, but I don’t see why it’s such a big deal to strip him or not strip him. Just strip him then, and honestly… Overeem doesn’t even give a shit in my opinion, so why not just do it?
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 19, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course he doesn't care..
The title means nothing. He won it from a gatekeeper and SF hasn’t had any competition until recently.
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@k1legend
by D.W. on Oct 19, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think he’d care regardless. He is making mad money in K-1.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 19, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How much does he make per fight with K-1?
by Chris Nelson on Oct 19, 2009 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are a few floated rumors of 150 – 200k per fight.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 19, 2009 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem with your perspective is that you assume “EVERYONE” is a hard core fan.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Oct 19, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I go to a lot of local shows and the titles on these small as shows which are basically proving who is the best fighter in his weight class in like a 2 county area mean something to the fans. People do understand (and value) the idea of regional and secondary titles.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 19, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I used to go to plenty of local shows, and it never seemed that way, but I suppose I’m not in a heavy city setting either.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 19, 2009 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the Ring has sewn up the “legitimate” boxing titles.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
by Mike Fagan on Oct 19, 2009 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m sorry, Overeem is quite busy fighting world class compteition these days. He has no time for pathetic potential matchups like Werdum or Fedor or Rogers.
by oasis77 on Oct 19, 2009 2:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
He just fought Sylvester guys and he has a fight coming up versus .. well someone. I mean that is way bigger than him fighting Fedor.
by GoldmedalGrappling on Oct 19, 2009 2:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The Sylvester fight..
The Sylvester fight was an easy win for him tossed together at the last second. His gym and management, Golden Glory, needed him on the card to really sell it so they found an easy fight for him.
This was his first obligation, to his manager and his gym, than to a promotion that neglected to put him, their HW champ under contract until mid-way through this year.
by D.W. on Oct 19, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fighting in the K1 final is more important than an imaginary fight with Fedor that was never scheduled.
by omigawda on Oct 19, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Being a favorite in the WGP > holding a worthless title
Holding the Strikeforce Heavyweight belt means nothing right now, on the other hand, as it has been mentioned, K-1/FEG are paying him a lot more money than what Strikeforce can offer. On top of that, he has a chance to possibly win the most prestigious kickboxing tournament in the world.
Like it or not, AO is one of the elite heavyweight kickboxers. He holds wins over Badr Hari and Peter Aerts and lost a very, very close decision to Remy Bonjasky. People rag on Aerts, but he is at a better place in his career than Randy Couture is, easily. Aerts is still without a doubt one of the top heavyweights in the world.
When you think about it, be concerned over a sham title or concentrate on one of kickboxing’s highest honors? Hmmmm
http://k1legend.wordpress.com (soon to be http://www.HeadKickLegend.com)
@k1legend
by D.W. on Oct 19, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think you might be on to something here…
by omigawda on Oct 20, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A belt is a belt man
A belt is just a symbol , a prize for being the org’s champion . Should all mma orgs stop using belts because the UFC has better fighters ? Nope!
Should Euro basketball titles cease to exist because the nba has better teams ? Nope , I watch Euro basket all the time and we have trophies and shit , and I don’t really give a damn about the NBA when I watch it.
So this is about the same , Strikeforce should definitely have champions and belts and titles , and not paper champions but champions who actually defend their belt . Even the WWE freaking has belts and that’s all make belief :)
by JoelMan on Oct 19, 2009 2:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
SOMEONE PLEASE POST THE WAMMA UPSIDE DOWN TITLE PIC… nuff said.
by mmalogic on Oct 19, 2009 2:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Oh right, WAMMA, SF doesn’t need to strip Overeem because this will be a 5 round fight because it’s for the wamma title………………………….
by Phildo on Oct 19, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are WAMMA still around?
What are they up to these days?
I finish beers at 1:55.
by ihateemo on Oct 19, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brainstorming the next evolution in ultimate fighting combat
Twitter ain't no bitch homie! -> @El_Duderino1312
by midwestbred on Oct 19, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn't that YAMMA?
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
by The_Gaijin on Oct 19, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope, the next evolution in ultimate fighting combat was XARM!
"Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity." - Bullet Tooth Tony
@deowade
by Deo Wade on Oct 19, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's right baby!
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 19, 2009 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fan-f**kin-tastic lol
"Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity." - Bullet Tooth Tony
@deowade
by Deo Wade on Oct 19, 2009 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
XARM, what a bunch of crap that was. It makes me sicl, please tell me they don’t put on that show.
for all intents and purposes, just consider all my posts as works of satire.
by Bandaka on Oct 19, 2009 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not the intrinsic value of the title per se
A promotion that can’t even interest its champion in fighting looks weak and disorganised. Does anyone really think that Overeem wouldn’t get tanked by at least half the UFC HW division? No. I think that people are more interested in Coker taking a leaf out of Dana White and making fighters that he has under contract focus on his organisation rather than globetrotting and showing up whenever they feel like it.
I finish beers at 1:55.
by ihateemo on Oct 19, 2009 3:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Err, a “leaf out of Dana White’s book”.
I finish beers at 1:55.
by ihateemo on Oct 19, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I said in the comments a few days ago that Strikeforce title mean nothing….
by Reaser16 on Oct 19, 2009 5:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think the belt is a very useful marketing tool. That’s why it doesn’t take much to make Dana break out an interim one, that’s why people watch the curling at the olympics, that’s why the Division III Football championship is the only division III football game on espn.
It doesn’t matter what the championship represents or what level it is, people get more excited for a title fight than a non-title fight. I think the Overeem situation has been handed poorly from the beginning, so I’m not sure that stripping him now would make the most sense, but that doesn’t change the fact that Fedor/Rogers not being for a belt if a mistake on Strikeforce’s part.
by Phildo on Oct 19, 2009 5:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This is a very valid point...
the UFC doesn’t break out the interim title because they’re idiots. They do it because title fights matter to people and therefore sell. By it’s very definition an interim belt doesn’t represent the clear best fighter in the world at that weight, it’s a placeholder until the true champion can return. But the idea of a “title fight” carries a mystique that MATTERS in combat sports.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 19, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What they should do is make the Overeem/Thompson match at Dream 12 for the SF belt. Dream and SF allegedly have an allaince, Overeem is their champion, who cares if he doesn’t deserve the shot, at least disprove the theory that he lost the belt.
by Phildo on Oct 19, 2009 7:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The only problem with that
Is if Thompson somehow miraculously pulled out the victory they would probably have to shut down their promotion, just out of principal.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Oct 19, 2009 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but wouldn’t it be easier to market Fedor vs the guy who’s ear kimbo exploded instead of Fedor vs this giant guy you’ve never seen fight before as a title fight?
by Phildo on Oct 19, 2009 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Someone should tell Overeem that Strikeforce has since upgraded their belts. I bet he threw that hideous thing away and thats why he’s stalling. Eww…
SHOGUN WILL SLAY THE DRAGON!!!
SHOGUN TO BE THE NEW LHW CHAMP!!!
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Oct 20, 2009 12:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Seriously though
That thing is almost boxing champ belt ugly, and thats ugly.
SHOGUN WILL SLAY THE DRAGON!!!
SHOGUN TO BE THE NEW LHW CHAMP!!!
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Oct 20, 2009 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we reach March and Overeem doesn’t have a title defense schedule, strip him of the belt. Have the winner of Fedor / Rogers fight the winner of Antonia Silva / Fabricio Werdum and crown the winner of that match the new StrikeForce Champion. Overeem can still challenge for it.
by Chromium on Oct 20, 2009 3:41 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This is exactly what they will do.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Oct 20, 2009 3:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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