Systema - Russian Fight System
by ryanwk628 on Oct 15, 2009 10:11 PM EDT
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PrintHas anyone done a write up on Systema and its influence on Fedor's fighting style? It seems to give Fedor the same type of advantage Karate gives machida. I know he is not fighting two guys at once or disarming a guy with a knife, but this is russias version of Krav Maga. All their special forces train it and it links Fedor on the wikipedia page.
From what I have been told, most fighting styles require you to work out of a base stance. Think about Karate or Kick Boxing, everything is taught for a basic stance. The same can be said for BJJ, where you you are taught starting in the guard. The one thing about systema is you are taught to wait and go with what your opponent gives you, being ready to fight out of any position with out resetting yourself to a fundamental stance. Its all about being fluid, inventive and unorthodox. I think this mentality and approach helps Fedor just as much as his sambo background.
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It's true
Fedor’s transitions and striking are very reminiscent of Systema. And there’s a good reason for it too- there was a point in time during the development of combat sambo when the techniques of sambo as well as striking were formed, and there was a significant spillover of Systema techniques.
Igor Vovchanchyn and Oleg Taktarov have also been observed as fighters that incorporate systema- style techniques into their fighting, specifically Igor’s punching form. The way that Igor (and later, fighters like Fedor) punch is very similar to systema- which is ultimately based on free, uninhibited, relaxed/ circular motions. Which is why it looks like they’re almost swinging something like a ball and chain when they throw their punches, and why Fedor hits so hard but has such great hand speed. It’s all about staying loose and having optimal transfer of motion and reaction time.
Whether or not Fedor has trained Systema specifically isn’t known (at least from what I can tell), but he certainly has some tendencies that are extremely Systema- esque. And it is possible that he’s done a little, as Systema is the Russian Army’s official combat system, and Fedor was in the military for quite some time.
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interesting
what about Oleg’s style is Systema based? He certainly doesn’t throw punches like Fedor or Vovchanchyn.
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I'd actually venture to say
that Oleg is the closest to systema out of the 3. His grappling is very free and based on the whole ‘give and take’ concept of systema.
The thing is that uring the development of Sambo, there was a great deal of covert spillover from the System in all its forms to the new martial art. Hence, Sambo grapplers might be said to employ certain Systema concepts in their fighting style, though this will vary from fighter to fighter. On the whole, the ones that emphasize ‘softness’ and yielding and transitional flow the most – like Taktarov – might be the closest thing one might see to the full System being employed in the MMA ring thus far.
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'09 is the year of the FW's.
by ElliotMatheny on Oct 16, 2009 5:18 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd Actually Disagree
I’ve trained in Systema, and long before I ever heard of Fedor we were taught about “whiplike strikes” and momentum. I wouldn’t disagree that Oleg Taktarov is unfamiliar with Systema or that his ground game is similar but Fedor and Igor remind me much more of what I used to learn while training. Systema doesn’t focus too much on the fighting on the ground. Although they do teach ground fighting techniques It’s not a focus.
i know most Systema videos look impractical but if anyone is ever in Toronto, ON in Canada I would strongly urge you to visit his school for a free class.
Also
Systema is taught to the Russian Special Forces not the regular Army. I believe they just learn Sambo.
ah interesting
i’m totally unfamiliar with systema so just trying to learn.
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I had no idea
until a friend of mine took a few classes. Apparently the instructor trained with Fedor back in Russia (had photos to prove it).
Well just in case you run into videos...
I have seen many videos of people who claim to know Systema and if you want to learn more only watch Vladimir .
He introduced Systema to North America in the early 90’s and like i said it’s unfortunate that no students achieve his status or surpass him but useful things can still be learned.
Not sure where you are but he has some seminars coming up in Toronto, Montreal, and New York City.
Systema
I come from a Parker Kenpo school where my instructors go to canada to study with Vladimir Vasiliev and I have been to seminars here in Chicago with Vlad. From what I have seen and what I know of the system is that when combined with a base fighting style it really helps evolve you to the next level of fighting. The Kenpo that I was tought started to resemble the flowing movements of systema, at least in certain areas. I think that systema is a good thing to touch on in your MMA training and im sure Fedor knows some of it… But I have no proof that he does its just a guess. It would be cool to se if he does or if he has ever trained with Vlad.
I have trained with the George Pogacich back in about 1999-2000 and he always taught that although Systema can help and improve your other arts, by adding more natural movements, and the concept of always staying calm it was always taught that Systema is best in its pure form…
I have that very few teachers outside of Vladimir and a few others are teaching true Systema… I have yet to see one student who is as good as Vladimir, with that said, for all who want to learn or just experience true Systema visit Vladimir.
But I would pay a pretty penny to see Vladimir or Mikhail just spar…
by AfroSamurai on Oct 16, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree that there is not many people if any that is good as Vlad.. I have also seen Martin Wheeler who is a student of Vlads and is very good also…
And I would like to add the only way to really experience Systema is to get hit by Vlad.. although it is not a very enjoyable thing to do but if you only see him once you got to do it..
I agree for all people who critique Systema without experiencing with Vladimir your critique is pointless because the videos can be very misleading if you haven’t worked with him.
BTW i hate getting hit with Systema strikes lol… too much demonstrations take away from the teaching after awhile…
Demonstrate on SOMEONE ELSE DAMN! LOL
One of the seminars that I attended in Chicago there was a woman reporter there who, from watching the videos, didnt believe that Vlad was able to do and move like he did. It was the biggest waste of like a hour of his and ours time… So when it came time for a “hitting” demonstration we practically pushed her into the front of the line. Needless to say she didnt stay to much longer.. but the point is Systema seems like a art that you need to almost dedicate your life to really understand it.. but I like it its somthing different to try to use.
I absolutely don't want to knock this,
But the 2 on 1 almost reminds me of the three stooges. One guy slaps another the next guy kicks the first guy and so on and so forth. Looks pretty tough though…
never tried it, still knocking it, feel free to rebut
Apologies for devil’s advocacy…
The technique here looks terrible, with no defensive measures taken, aikido-like cooperation from your opponent, flat-footed strikes with no body weight behind them, hands to the sides when closing in—People were literally turning their back to their opponents while sparring. The only legit stuff I saw was the BJJ/newaza at the end.
I’ve seen other vids of this Vlad guy doing chi-like movements and all his students roll away like they were blasted with some dragonball-z 5000-level wave. It all seemed a little psychosomatic.
If none of your students are acheiving your level of skill, you’re not a very good teacher, no?
Now if there’s some purpose to Systema that involves exercise, relaxation, mental and physical tests for self-improvement and confidence, then I concede. Everyone has a right to whatever hobby they choose. But relying on it as a way to fight and defend yourself?
I’m sorry if this rant offends anybody, but after twenty years of MMA, I’m surprised there are still schools that treat their art as sanctified magic.
Feeling free
No problem because I agree, most videos of systema look ridiculous but this one is probably one of the worst practitioners i’ve ever seen lol.
I’ve seen the videos too and felt the same.
Well… Never said he’s a good teacher but he’ll damn sure impress you with the stuff he can do to you and what you cant do to him.
Nope no purpose that involves exercise getting too big or really cut up isn’t anything they value. Mental and Physical test for self improvement and confidence I guess are built like any other MA. But i believe i’ve heard them say all actions that aren’t done naturally like soccer, football etc. because they don’t serve any purpose… yeah i know but hey Dana calls them crazy Russians right….
I don’t think they treat it like anything sanctified…they don’t wear gi’s, don’t do any bowing and pretty much only train in self defense.
agreed
i have to agree with this, the amount of co-operation in the video is no way close to sparing, the whole foot stomp to knee thing with the trip on the end? and the ‘3 stooges’ bit was unreal! the russian version of krav maga? i think i’d rather go with the israelis version. also your point about the teacher how true is that?!, the guy has had like 20 something years to make someone as good as him or better and has failed, to me thats an awful teacher.
If i knew people were this interested I would have just made my own post...Which i will probably do at some point in the future...but until then
Krav Maga is much more of an aggressive balls out type of art, Systema is more of a soft and relaxed art.
Yeah he’s definitely been teaching a long time but another thing you have to consider is he also teaches the Russian Special Forces (Spetsnez) and from what i have been told has also been involved in different Russian conflicts in Afghanistan and Asia.
thats how my buddy felt (who has been training BJJ with Marco Delima and Judo at a good school around here) but he did the one free class and signed up preaching it to everyone he knows. Im going to try it in the next week or two.
Not saying its the end all be all, but there are some principles that would absolutely be beneficial to MMA.
Go to :45 seconds into the video, that fatman has some sick stand-up skills.
for all intents and purposes, just consider all my posts as works of satire.
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