Quote Fail of the Day: Steve Cofield on Ron Waterman
by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 10, 2009 5:00 PM EDT
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Rumor has it that 43-year-old Ron Waterman is being considered for Lashley. Lashley is far enough along in his MMA career that he doesn't have to fight a tomato can like Waterman.
Ron Waterman is far from an elite heavyweight. However at 16-6-2 and wins in the UFC and PRIDE I think we can safely say he doesn't fit the bill of "tomato can." It's people like Cofield who perpetuate this idea in our sport that anyone outside of the elite is a "can." It starts with a guy like Cofield with a visible position at a Yahoo! blog and trickles down into the forum trolls on sites like Sherdog and The Underground. It's an ignorant, ugly, and dismissive attitude which shows a lack of comprehension of the fight game.
Furthermore I'd say that Ron Waterman is exactly the right step for this stage in Lashley's career. Joshua Franklin -> Jason Guida -> Mike Cook -> Bob Sapp -> Ron Waterman is exactly the kind of path that fighters are developed through. Obviously Brock Lesnar's career being fast tracked has created a disconnect between Steve and the reality of fighter development. A fight against a legitimate heavyweight such as Waterman with decent wrestling, good strength and fair ground skills is an interesting challenge for Lashley, and probably a safe one.
But the real point here remains the irresponsible and disrespectful words of Cofield. The idea that a writer in Steve's position can't grasp the different levels of competition in this sport baffles me while the idea that a fighter with a .666 win percentage (including a 4-2-1 record in the UFC and PRIDE) is a can only serves to out him as clueless.
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It’s people like Cofield who perpetuate this idea in our sport that anyone outside of the elite is a “can.” It starts with a guy like Cofield with a visible position at a Yahoo! blog and trickles down into the forum trolls on sites like Sherdog and The Underground. It’s an ignorant, ugly, and dismissive attitude which shows a lack of comprehension of the fight game.
SAY WORD. Good stuff, sir.
by Chris Nelson on Oct 10, 2009 5:03 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Agreed....
It seems like Cofield is OFF on almost any assessment of ANYTHING in MMA, and most of the stuff he writes is completely off base and only fueling the mobs of idiots. Ariel Helwani, while I thought he was a bit smarter than that, was fueling fires as well with the whole “Kimbo could fight K-1” bullshit. To be perfectly honest, at least Maggie Hendricks sticks to writing stuff that basically calls for hits, not actual hard hitting articles. Cofield seems to try to do both, and he’s terrible at the real stuff.
Brent hit the nail on the head. Touche sir.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 10, 2009 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Ever listen to his post-fight show? Absolutely brutal.
I specializes in grammar fail.
by a tommy point on Oct 10, 2009 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Great article Brent
The funny thing is most of these “fans” that like to throw around the term “can” have never even been to mma gym let alone done any actual mma.
I’d love to see one of these idiots walk up and call Arlovski or Rogers a can to their face. It would be a lot like Bully Beatdown.
What does training MMA have to do with this?
You don’t have to have played football in the NFL to know the Chiefs kinda suck. Nor should you have to have played football to have the right to say so.
To me can is a relative term. A fighter might be a can in one fight and not in another. The question is whether the fighter is being brought in because they have a low probability of winning vs. their opponent.
"fight against a legitimate heavyweight such as Waterman with decent wrestling, good strength and fair ground skills is an interesting challenge for Lashley, and probably a safe one.
I think the author pretty much agrees with Cofield about the competitive merit of the matchup, but doesn’t agree about the definition of a can. A lot of people use can in a relative sense—- Forrest Griffin was a can in Silva v. Griffin but was not a can in Griffin v. anyone else he has fought. The author seems to view it as a characteristic of the fighter outside of the context of the fight being discussed. Perhaps Mr. Brookhouse should explain his definition of the word can.
You dont have to train to have an opinion
but people who do train and fight tend to have more respect for other fighters because they realize how hard they train and how easy it can be to lose a fight.
My point was its really easy to get on the internet and say Arlovski sucks because he lost 2 fights and 1 was to the best heavyweight in the world.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and my opinion is that it is a lot easier to criticize somebody when your not doing it then to be the one doing it. Example the Chiefs: I can sit here and blast Matt Cassell for not being able to complete a pass but the fact is I wouldnt have been able to complete the pass.
These aren’t firefighters for fuck’s sake. I agree that there’s a baseline level of respect you should hold for fighters (or people in general). You don’t boo a guy in the cage because he’s not fighting like you want him too. But there’s nothing wrong with saying someone sucks if you believe that to be the case.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Fighters get bood all the time for not fighting the "right way"
Especially ground fighters. Hell it seemed that the Dallas crowd at 103 was booing everything.
This is imo of course it gets annoying to hear people berate fighters. The new one is Fedor “the can crusher” and not because they believe he sucks but simply because he is not in the UFC.
If Fedor/Sylvia, Fedor/Arlovski, and even Fedor/Barnett had taken place under the UFC banner same records and same result they would be saying Fedor is fighting the best in the world and not cans.
I think Fedors record is replete with guys who were not ever remotely at his level. Not because he is in the UFC, but because a lot of his opponents have losing records or barely positive records. I mean, Hong Man Choi? Really? C’mon. There is a very good point about the general quality of Fedor’s opposition. When you are one degree of separation away from Jose Canseco there’s some grounds for complaint.
And god bless Brett Rogers but he needs a freaking miracle to survive the first minute against Fedor. Tell me he didn’t get chosen because of the high probabilty that Fedor will do some physics-defying shit to Roger’s face.
But anyways. I feel your pain about people mouthing off on the internet but that’s half the fun of the internet. If you don’t like bullshit, don’t read the comments.
You may want to go check out Fedor’s record again, the only win against a “can” or subpar fighter in the last 5 years has been against Choi and possibly Zulu but at that time Zulu was looking extremely dangerous. Guess your could put Hunt in there because of his record but he is far from a can.
"Did you feel you did well against Lindland?" "
Hell no.. I wanted to break the law"
---Rampage
by TearsofaClown on Oct 10, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
but at that time Zulu was looking extremely dangerous
Holy shit that might be the funniest thing I’ve ever seen on Bloody Elbow.
I’m giving you a rec just for making me laugh.
When you KO or TKO everyone in your way in just minutes until you get to Fedor you do look dangerous, once he stepped up in competition he was exposed for what he was.
"Did you feel you did well against Lindland?" "
Hell no.. I wanted to break the law"
---Rampage
by TearsofaClown on Oct 10, 2009 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Hehe I’m talking about how he looked before he fought Fedor, not what a disaster he looked like after the beating Fedor gave him .
"Did you feel you did well against Lindland?" "
Hell no.. I wanted to break the law"
---Rampage
by TearsofaClown on Oct 11, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm guessing you're talking about his physical appearance.
Because his record before the Fedor mauling was…well…sketchy to say the least. 38-0 in Vale Tudo…Really?
Yep, I have Twitter too. Follow me @deowade
He’s a big fat scary man i tells ya!
"Did you feel you did well against Lindland?" "
Hell no.. I wanted to break the law"
---Rampage
by TearsofaClown on Oct 11, 2009 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions
The Dallas crowd booed only three times as a whole – the Eliot Marshal fight, the first round of Griffin/Franca, and after the first minute of lazy jabs from Belfort/Franklin.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Oct 10, 2009 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions
i agree with
Mike. You should respect the man for being willing to get into the cage, but you also have the right to say that they suck at what they do in the cage. That said, I’ve been lucky enough to have gone to a UFC event (couture vs gonzaga) and it disappointed me with the number of people that booed. Be it a lack of education of the ground game or just dislike of a certain fighter it just seemed wrong to boo any of the fighters. I was seated in the nosebleed/canadian section (everyone around us was very cool) and at one point someone adjacent to us was booing during one of the undercard fights. He was promptly chastised by everyone else around him until he shut up.
Let me address your Arlovski thing because it’s come up a few times: Arlovski gets a bad rep unfairly because some people are morons. Some people who train are morons, and some people who don’t train are morons. Unrelated.
But there’s no reason for me, or anybody else, to not offer valid, measured criticism of somebody (in an area designated for discussion, no less) simply because they could kick my ass.
50% more Ultimate than the leading competitor.
That's fair
As I posted above a lot of my beef has now to do with there are a large group of people who think anything not under the UFC banner is “cans fighting” and I think thats bs.
These same people that siad Fedor/Sylvia was a can fight if it had taken place at UFC 86 instead of Affliction 1 would have been calling it a great fight.
If they want to being up a valid point on why somebody sucks I’ll listen but because he is not in the UFC is not a valid reason for “sucking” in my book.
As somebody who doesn’t train, I’d appreciate it if somebody would send me a list of the observations I’m allowed to make, words I’m allowed to use, thoughts I’m allowed to have, and so on.
50% more Ultimate than the leading competitor.
by Dodectagon on Oct 10, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 9 recs
Your allowed to make any comments or thoughts you want
I’m not telling people what to think I’m stating my opinion. There are a lot of people on here that like to say fighters like Arlovski or Rogers suck and I’d be interested to see if they would say that to their face.
Exactly, just don’t be a internet warrior.
"Did you feel you did well against Lindland?" "
Hell no.. I wanted to break the law"
---Rampage
by TearsofaClown on Oct 10, 2009 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions
lol 100% true
i love the term Internet Warrior LMAO, half of the ppl on these forums are Internet Warriors {: )
looking at his record, waterman hasn’t won a fight against a solid opponent in 4 years… overall career records are wonderful, but recent records are more pertinent if you’re trying to defend his current stats as a legit fighter.
trying to find a video of his fight with dave herman from last year, where he lost in 2 minutes. maybe that two minutes was more impressive than i remember it being.
It wasn't great...
but those facts don’t make him a tomato can. There are levels between elite and can. Like journeyman which is probably where Ron would be classified right now and honestly is a perfectly fair thing to say. Can is just ugly and incorrect.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 10, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
found it… yeah looked like he gassed after about 1 minute. I get what you’re saying, really I do, but nostalgia is a bad thing when it comes to evaluating the current level of a fighter. Lashley would probably go into this fight as a 10-1 favorite… you can get upset about calling an aging fighter that used to be good a can if you want…
Oddly though, i do agree with your position this is a legit fight for Lashley. As a guy whose starpower exceeds his record, he has to fight main events for these regional shows. They cannot put him into a fight with someone without a name, so fighting guys on their downward freefall is about the best he can hope for.
Waterman hasn’t hit the point of “can” yet and I don’t really see a way to say he has. Because he didn’t look good against Herman? I can’t write a guy off for a single fight. Or rather, I can’t suddenly say he is a hopeless tomato can. He’s a journeyman.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 10, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
He hasn’t look good against anyone with a modicum of skill. He gets flat out destroyed in one round by anyone with mid-tier ability.
Dave Herman is an extemely talented prospect
getting smoked by Herman is not something to be ashamed of.
If Herman were to actually train and condition he would be an absolute blue-chip prospect.
A can is someone whose abilities are shot, who can’t beat anyone.
A journeyman is someone who presents a challenge to a prospect and just might get the odd win against an up and comer.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Mario Rinaldi has at least "a modicum of skill".
ATT product, win against Ricco Rodriguez, quality loss to Roy Nelson, held his own against Fabricio Werdum at the ADCC. And Waterman handled him just fine…
You don't understand MMA, sorry.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 10, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah but don’t take it too far in the other direction. understanding mma is not the same thing as arguing over the definition of a can.
www.tapology.com | twitter.com/tapology
Understanding that because a guy isn’t elite that doesn’t make him a can is a part of understanding MMA. It’s evaluating fighters, it’s understanding skills and relative values of fighters….
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by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 10, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Mixed martial arts (MMA) is a full contact combat sport that allows a wide variety of fighting techniques, from a mixture of martial arts traditions and non-traditions, to be used in competitions. The rules allow the use of striking and grappling techniques, both while standing and on the ground. Such competitions allow martial artists of different backgrounds to compete.
Beatrice “Bea” Arthur (May 13, 1922 – April 25, 2009) was an American actress, comedian and singer whose career spanned seven decades. Arthur achieved fame as the character Maude Findlay on the 1970s sitcoms All in the Family and Maude, and as Dorothy Zbornak on the 1980s sitcom The Golden Girls, winning Emmy Awards for both roles. A stage actress both before and after her television success, she won the Tony Award for Best Featured Actress in a Musical for her performance as Vera Charles in the original cast of Mame (1966).
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by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 10, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
...And Total Hottie
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Oct 10, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh, I'll rec that
Thank you for giving me something to laugh at during an otherwise dull night of course reading.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
Just to clarify...
a tomato can would LOSE more than he WINS.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 10, 2009 5:12 PM EDT reply actions
Vernon “Tiger” White (26 – 33)
Shannon “The Cannon” Ritch (43 – 67)
Sherman “The Tank” Pendergarst (11 – 15)
Yep, I have Twitter too. Follow me @deowade
And then you would look at the relative merits of the fighters on those records...
White is probably a step above can in my eyes based on his ability to compete with some really great fighters, while Ritch is basically the defintion of can.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 10, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Very true
Vernon’s fought the Who’s Who of the MMA world and done relatively well against some of them. I guess I’d classify him more as a Journeyman maybe.
Yep, I have Twitter too. Follow me @deowade
yes
White had the misfortune to begin his career against the best in the sport at the time. He also fought in Pancrase which was infamous for its grueling schedule. And yet he gave many of the best of the day very tough fights. His bout with Sakuraba for example was a classic.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Ladies (crickets) and Gentlemen, I give you...
Shawn Nolan (6 – 45)
Yep, I have Twitter too. Follow me @deowade
So if Lashley fought Ken Shamrock right now...
you wouldn’t consider him a can? Old generation fighters in their mid 40’s who haven’t fought any semi-legit fighters in 4-5 years are cans to me.
So Ortiz, Franklin, and Sakuraba are not even semi-legit?
I’m aware that he lost to all of them but he has faced all 3 in the past 4 years.
Ken's (3 - 7) in his last 10 and (1-4) in his last 5
And that last win was…….wasn’t really a win (R.I.P. Ross Clifton). I wouldn’t call him a Can. I’d call him washed up.
Yep, I have Twitter too. Follow me @deowade
Right...
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by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 10, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Basically...
Shamrock possesses the skillset to compete, but is washed up to the point that he can not put those skills into action. I mean, simply because a guy would be a heavy underdog at this point in their life doesn’t make them a can. I’d favor GSP like 10000 to 1 over Royce Gracie…but Gracie is not a can
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 10, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
this is where i am coming from too… a can is someone who is set up to get knocked down… it’s a bit silly to really debate the etimology of this stuff though.
maybe we should just change the title of the article to “Ron Waterman: Not a Can, just Washed Up”
It's a respect thing...
disrespecting fighters upsets me greatly. Can is a term that gets thrown around SO often in our sport that it loses any meaning. A can is someone who never HAD the skills to compete. Washed up is a term that would apply to someone who HAD the skills to compete and now can not.
Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 10, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 10 recs
exactly brent
if you consider can and washed up the same then Liddell is a can, Wand is a can, and Hughes is a can but the reality is they are just washed up now as age and wars took tolls on their bodies and younger fighters are getting more advanced.
It’s the reason Hughes was able to dominate Gracie but got dominated by GSP and 1 day I’m sure GSP will get eclipsed.
What if their skills deteriorated? Say Shogun got knocked out by Chuck, or Bonnar never gets back to where he was… would it not be alright to call them cans after two or three years of less than mediocrity? They wouldn’t have lost their skills to age, more like injury, but still… what would YOU call them, if not a can?
washed up
If Shogun got ko’d by Chuck and never got back to stardom can you just forget what he did in Pride beating Rampage, Lil’ Nog, and Overeem among others.
And that I believe is what Brent is saying a can never had the skills. a washed up fighter had the skills but due to age injuries etc.. he know longer can fight at an elite level
You misunderstand. Shogun is my favorite fighter so he will never be a can to me. I was just asking, if you can’t call them “over the hill” due to their young age, what are they? I’ve always thought fighters who didn’t have the skills were cans, unless they had some success and were past a certain age, but Brent is arguing that if they once had the skills they can never be called a can. So I’m wondering what he would call a fighter who once had the skills but no longer does, and is relatively young. Since you can’t call their a can or washed up.
age is relative
you don’t have to be old to be over the hill. Over the hill just means you’re past your peak. A series of injuries can take a very young fighter over the hill.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Plenty of great fighters are never right again...
after they take a bad beating in a fight…etc. It’s certainly not age
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by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 10, 2009 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions
In that perspective, it becomes about respect. A washed up fighter earned respect, but you can no longer expect them to win fights; a can never earned respect at all, and you can’t expect them to win fights. You can give a bit of leaway to the former based on the respect that they earned, while the latter is just a waste of time.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
You misunderstand. Shogun is my favorite fighter so he will never be a can to me. I was just asking, if you can’t call them "over the hill" due to their young age, what are they? I’ve always thought fighters who didn’t have the skills anymore were cans, unless they had some success and were past a certain age (in which case they would be past their prime/over the hill, etc), but Brent is arguing that if they once had the skills they can never be called a can. So I’m wondering what he would call a fighter who once had the skills but no longer does, and is relatively young, since you can’t call their a can or washed up.
Does someone who is washed up enough become a can? And if a tree falls in a forest…
It’s an interesting point. “Can” is a derogatory term used to denote someone just brought in to lose and make the winner look impressive. A “washed up” fighter is probably booked because, on name value alone, they will bring in an audience but there’s no way that they can compete at the level that used to be expected of them. So how much of a difference is there? Is it an ethical difference, or a moral one, or based on expectation?
It’s strange – I can’t honestly say what the difference is, but I find a washed up fighter sad, while I find cans more or less offensive (when they are put against top/rising talent – I hate padded records).
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
Is this fighter brought in to get "crushed?"
He’s a can. That is the exact definition of a can.
by cyph on Oct 10, 2009 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
can comes from tomato can...
meaning the kind of fighter that comes in and gets punched a few times and the red starts to leak out. it isnt can because you crush them like a soda can.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 10, 2009 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’ve never heard that one before. Neither has Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomato_can_%28sports_idiom%29
How is the Clifton win not really a win?
Because he tested positive for banned substances afterward? Because if were gonna start doing that it’s gonna take away a lot of wins from a lot of different people.
I saw a thread on Sherdog
the other day asking how much longer until Randy Couture is considered a can… while I’ve never really seen the aura surrounding Randy, it would take a long, LONG time to ever consider someone with his reputation a can. Just goes to show how little perspective some fans have.
Can’t believe we’re having a more than casual discussion about the definition of a “can”. Who gives a shit?
Cofield’s wrong about Waterman being an inappropriate fight for Lashley, but I couldn’t care less about his use of descriptive words.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Yeah, I couldn’t care less about the “can” comment itself, just that he really missed the mark on how Waterman fits into the big picture for Lashley. I don’t consider Waterman a can. I don’t consider him a huge threat, but not someone you can just hit the gym a few times a week and expect to bulldoze.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Oct 10, 2009 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Well Mike
I for one am just tired of hearing a lot of posters now misuse the term. I’ve heard people refer to Rogers as a can and shit like that is very annoying to me.
It’s to a point now that a lot of people think if your not top 10 your a can.
Also if you dont like the thread why are you posting in it. Start another one and get people talking about what you want.
From the wikipedia entry for “tomato can (sports idiom)”:
In boxing or mixed martial arts, “tomato can” is an idiom for a fighter with poor or diminished skills who may be considered an easy opponent to defeat, or a "guaranteed win.
Example above does not seem like such a stretch from this definition.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Well if were going by the wikipedia definition
Then all of BJ’s opponents, all GSP’s opponents, all Silva’s opponents, all Machida’s opponents, and all Fedor’s opponents are “tomato cans”
Well there is no guarenteed win in mma most people think BJ will easily defeat Diego, GSP easily defeat Swick or Hardy, Silva destroys Belfort, Machida destroys Shogun, and Fedor destroys Rogers.
But yet they’re not considered tomato cans. Hell I bet you the line on Lashley/Waterman would be closer than Machida/Shogun but Waterman is a can and Shogun’s not?
“poor or diminished skills”
I think you skipped a clause.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
You could make the argument
that both Shogun and Belfort have diminished skills. Shogun no matter how good you want to argue he looked against Chuck has not looked like the Pride Shogun.
And Belfort is now 5-0 in his last 5 but before that he was 2-5 in his last 7 so you could make the argument.
It’s all a matter of opinion I’m sure I could find some mma fan that thinks Swick and Hardy have poor skills and there were people that thought Guida beat Sanchez(not me of course) but weather someone is a tomato can depends on how much you buy into their chances of winning.
Was Serra a can before the GSP fight? And if yes how did that turn out.
You either don’t understand what “poor or diminished skills” means or you’re being willfully dense about this. None of the examples you’ve brought up would come near to qualifying, and I think you know that.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
I think Shogun does have diminished skills but that is only if you compare it to a Pride Shogun. He still is a good fighter but not as good as he once was.
If you disagree with me thats fine but you dont have to call stupid.
Scratch that last sentance
Apparently I am that stupid.
Who gives a shit?
Well, gee Mr. Fagan, maybe it’s just an interesting conversation that is fun to dig into. I don’t know if I “give a shit” in the sense that it’s vitally important to me, but I do “give a shit” in the sense that it’s a fun semantic debate that livens up an otherwise dull night. Do you get that bent out of shape about undercard fights between 1-0 fighters, just because they don’t have title implications? Whatever happened to discourse?
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
“Do you get that bent out of shape about undercard fights between 1-0 fighters, just because they don’t have title implications? Whatever happened to discourse?”
What does this have to do with anything I’ve said?
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Just making the point that sometimes an argument/discussion/debate doesn’t have to have world-shattering implications to be fun/interesting/involving. C’mon, man. It’s Saturday night (afternoon, depending on where you are). What the hell else are we doing?
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
Rewatching It’s Always Sunny… until the same.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
I don’t have cable/satellite, and it’s damn near midnight in England. I haven’t been able to stay up late enough to watch a single frickin’ event since I moved to this god-forsaken, no-BJJ-having island.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
Ha ha ha! My in-laws (British) refer to me as “the colonial”…
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
It’s occured to me. I’ve also considered giving them coffee the way that its made in Canada and the USA and watching their heads explode (there’s no decent coffee over here).
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
Figured you would be getting ready to head for the bar and look for some drunk skanks Fagan. After the fights?
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Oct 10, 2009 6:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You can still go mountain climbing or white-water rafting.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Oct 10, 2009 7:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Being a fighter who will never be worth putting on the main card of a major promotion’s card without being up against someone with a big name dosen’t make him a can. He’s a journeyman, and probably on his way out…but for Lasley, he poses more problems than the rest of Lasley’s opposition…
Waterman is exactly the type of guy Lashley needs on his path to becoming someone in MMA.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
"anyone outside of the elite is a "can.""
I’m new to the fight game (my first UFC PPV was 83), but this has always baffled me.
I wouldn’t call you too new in that case. New at this point would be the horde of people who started watching with UFC 100. But yeah, the thought of people actually thinking that is pretty mind boggling.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Oct 10, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
You know, I had a new one in mind, because I’ve acknowledged that it’s ran it’s course…and it slipped my mind…I’ll figure something out. lol
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Oct 10, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I remember seeing people call Mike Thomas Brown a "Can" before he lambasted Faber.
It’s something that’s all too common amongst MMA Fans.
Yep, I have Twitter too. Follow me @deowade
Brown is a can
A can of Faber-cide
by ZombieWamma on Oct 10, 2009 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So basically we’re arguing the semantics between “washed up” and “can”…
Is that what this boils down to?
by Cory Braiterman on Oct 10, 2009 6:36 PM EDT reply actions
I don’t think there are many cans in MMA, especially at the Strikeforce/UFC level. You have to have some skills to make it to the big time. Cans are the dudes that are like 3-17 that come in to lose in showcase fights in boxing.
by xDieseLx on Oct 10, 2009 6:44 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I think this is it.
The term comes from boxing and it’s hard to translate it to mma. The cans in boxing are the people that the boxers we know had their first bunch of fights against to establish their ridiculously large number and 0 records.
A can never has, and never will be close to relevant in the sport, and in boxing they would never even get near a tv camera or a way for anyone but their family and their opponents’ families knowing that they were fighting.
This has to change a little when being brought over to mma, especially with the internet bringing cameras to such wonders as Wargods and the Yamma pit, giving us more access to more fighters of varying skills, but it’s safe to say that the term can is way overused, and it would be very rare to see a can on a strikeforce or ufc card.
ROFL!!
Are people surprised?
Cofield is the same guy who brought us such hard hitting interviews like the one with Logan Stanton, where he badgered her with questions like “Are you going to succumb and get your boobs done?!”
Steve Cofield is a tomato can. All of his articles are hits-producing Deadspin material.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on Oct 10, 2009 7:07 PM EDT reply actions 7 recs
I must be really off because I think Cofield’s fine and Deadspin is one of the best blogs on the ’net.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
http://www.sackmikegoldberg.com
Deadspin lost our collective respect when he criticized Lloyd Irvin’s story about foiling an intruder, even after hearing the audio.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Oct 10, 2009 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Deadspin has their moments and I suppose “one of the best blogs on the net” is a loose enough definition if you take into account the hundreds of “Y Megan Fox makez me hard” or “I luv ‘The Hills!!!!!’” sites floating around.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Oct 10, 2009 8:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Though the “can” debate is quite enjoyable, the stronger point is that someone who should know better, Cofield, decided to throw in a term for dramatic effect. That’s my opinion, anyway. Dramatic effect is fine, but the term “can” makes it seem as though Lashley is going in against a punching bag. That’s obviously not the case. Brent’s expertly made that point. If you want to help people understand the sport of MMA, you need to make an attempt to be precise with your language. If you want to support your thesis that Ricco Rodriguez deserves a title shot while also obscuring the true meaning of a term, just say whatever you want.
Agree with your article 100%.
The sad part is I think Cofield shares the same point of view as most casual mma fans.
That’s because Steve Cofield IS a casual MMA fan.
Walla walla walla I'm an idiot.
by ufc4 on Oct 10, 2009 8:07 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Cofield is a hack
And I agree with Brent. Waterman isn’t a can. He is 3-1 in his last 4 and that loss was to Dave Herman. His 6 losses in his career were to Herman, Roger Gracie, Ricco Rodriguez, Cro Cop, Kohsaska, and Andre “The Chief” Roberts. IMO a can loses to mediocre fighters too and Waterman hasn’t. I think he is still a respectable fighter.
For a guy to be a "can"...
…I think you’d have to be flat-out shocked to hear that he won a fight against a legitimate opponent. Like Mercer’s KO over Sylvia.
Personally, while I think Lashley would be the favorite in a fight with Waterman, I wouldn’t be all that surprised if Waterman won. He’s a tough dude, he’s got some skills, and he’s got it all over Lashley on experience. I mean, Lashley’s had exactly one fight go past the first round – and that was against Jason Guida, who’s about half a step up from my friend Bob. The first time you go deep into a fight against a guy who knows what he’s doing, that’s a whole different kettle of fish…
Cofield
I think the mere fact that Cofield can do a blog on Ron F-ing Waterman of all people and it would inspire a thread on another blog that is closing in on 200 comments with people arguing both sides is proof in and of itself that Cofield is a hell of a blogger.
Or a hell of a dumbass.
"You guys are jerking eachother off with some pseudo deep bullshit." - Kid Nate
by Kaleb Kelchner on Oct 11, 2009 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Or you know....
…people on the internet really love to be contrary/like to debate thing/harp on semantics. I mean, really, most situations have two sides to them and on any given day, any of a dozen topics on this site can reach 200 replies, especially when it deals with “is such and such as good/bad as he is portrayed by media/critics/fans”
by black dragon on Oct 12, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
I commend you, Mr. Brookhouse.
I am glad to see a writer in a favorable position such as yourself come upfront with this criticism. There are those of us who try to preach the message of visible responsibility from a much less prestigious position but we do it with the sports interests in mind. If writers like Cofield and others continue to be dismissive and toss around combat sports cliches in the wrong places, how can we expect the millions of newcomers to do anything but follow suit. Soon enough, opponents who are deemed tomato cans become worthless victories and the trickle down effect can end up being a detriment to both the alleged can, and can hurt the resume of the fighter deemed superior as well…perhaps that is going a bit far, but how farfetched is it, really, when you consider guys like Mark Hunt and Ron Waterman are all of a sudden labeled as cans by the general public? They can become less desirable to have as an opponent for promoters who live on public perception. Lets not go overstating a guys worth, thats equally unfair via the Kimbo Slice effect, but lets not sell a guy short who is making his living by DOING what the real influences only write about. A guy like Cofield would hate if he was deemed biased or not credible and therefore lost potential opportunities to work for higher paying publications. But it would be justice, wouldnt it?
LOL
You said Steve Cofield…
Nice write up by the way. This is a much needed conversation topic, but it applies to more writers on Yahoo than just Cofield. =)
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