Thiago "Pitbull" Alves named Fighter of the Year at MMAWeekly.com
by Nick Thomas on Jan 9, 2009 4:14 PM EST
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Following an unbelievable year that saw him defeat three different Top 10 opponents, American Top Team fighter Thiago "Pitbull" Alves has been named MMAWeekly.com's 2008 Fighter of the Year.
When the year began, Alves had already stated that he planned on making major waves in the UFC's welterweight division and said numerous times that he would one day put the 170-pound title around his waist.
Congrats Thiago. Click here for the UG's response.
HT: MMAWeekly.com
UPDATE [from Luke Thomas]: If you click on the link to the UG, you'll see reps from MMA Weekly make their case. Personally, I think Alves had his best year by far, but find selection for this accolade to be a gross exaggeration of his accomplishments.
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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WOW
How do you give fighter of the year to someone who didn’t make weight for one of the fights?
by Nick Travaglini on Jan 9, 2009 12:38 PM EST reply actions
And was coming off a diuretics suspension…
And beating an unprepared and overrated Karo…
And beating Kos (which is legit) who came in on late notice…
No GSP? Evans? No Mousasi? It’s outrageous.
I have not seen Mousasi
so I am unable to intelligently comment on his year, but I have seen both GSP & Evans and there is no way I could leave both of those guys out. For my money, it is only between those two fighters.
Luke, did he fight Hughes in 08 or 07? My point is that even if he did fight Hughes in 08, true he did beatdown a hall of famer but it was one not in the prime of his career & suffered an injury in that fight. Not making excuses for Hughes at all, just an observation.
It's MMAWeekly
Half of their staff are on crack, the other half are watching old Pride fights reminiscing about the past.
LOL, I won’t dabble in the things I’ve heard about MMAWeekly over the years or poor reporting.
Mousasi or Alvarez are definitely my picks. I don’t care if Eddie lost to Aoki on the 31st, he still went from BodogFIGHT fighting relatively mid to low-level fighters besides Thompson to fighting top 5 lightweight talent and winning. He’s also a class act, exciting, and will fight anyone, anywhere.
Mousasi is also another guy who jumped from off the radar into the spotlight. He’s well-rounded, great submissions and striking, and will be a huge force. Much like Eddie, he went from fighting crap guys to instantly fighting some bigger names and succeeding.
Alves did the same, but like Luke stated, the suspension doesn’t help his case. I imagine that defeating Karo is one of their huge deciding factors, and I’m not a huge fan of Karo. A non-finishing Judo practicioner is going to have a tough time in the cage, regardless of what he’s done in the past. Koscheck was short notice.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Jan 9, 2009 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t mind the choice. In one year he beat 3 top 10 welterweights. Pretty impressive.
Of course he’s doing steroids, but that’s another story altogether.
LOL..right he’s clean. You have no worries about the sport being clean..that’s your problem, not mine.
by lbk on Jan 9, 2009 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
Nice putting words in my mouth. If your only evidence of it is that he looks huge, then please go find your group of like-minded conspiracy theorists and have a party. I mean, a guy gaining muscle mass as he matures is UN-possible!
And I don’t want to start another steroid thread, so this is the only statement I’ll make here.
um..he was suspended for months for taking diaretics. you really that naive dude?
by lbk on Jan 9, 2009 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
And funny how Bonnar and Barnett doesn’t have bulging muscles like Alves. I thought steroids make everyone look like that?
Actually, it’s pretty well known that steroids have different effects on different people. I’m not suspicious of Alves of Alves purely on his size.
by lbk on Jan 9, 2009 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
Steroids bulk up people differently based on genetics. But it’s genetically impossible for Alves to bulk up normally?
If you know anything about the brazillian fighter culture you would know they have those guys on a steroid regimines from an early age. It’s pretty well known..
by lbk on Jan 9, 2009 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
Steroids don’t bulk anyone up. You can’t just sit in your house and shoot up Winstrol and get big. They allow higher levels of trainings/ceilings/etc.
Let me get this stright. The guy has been busted for taking diaretics illegally, yet you somehow think he is walking the straight and narrow when it comes to other illegal means of advancing his advantages in the octagon? Is that what you think?
by lbk on Jan 9, 2009 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
What I think doesn’t matter. He passed the test. He’s clean as far as I’m concerned. The fact that he was caught with something in the past does not make him a cheater today.
Using your logic, any who has ever committed a crime is now and forever a criminal and could not possibly be a changed man. Why stop there, a guy who was a middle of the road fighter could never be a contender today. Jorge Santiago and Alves would still be journeyman fighters. Don’t paint everyone with broad strokes.
yes, people who have cheated in all walks of life generally will cheat again. Not everyone, and not everytime, but the % is high enough that you can certainly remain suspicious of that person if they had cheated once before and seem suspicious down the road.
by lbk on Jan 9, 2009 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
Not saying that I agree or disagree with most of whta you are saying, BUT by using your process, I can assume that Nick Diaz, Bonnar, Donald Cerrone, Barnett, etc, are all on steroids?
Eliot Marshall: Bader won. Like I said in the episode, I'm not going to make any excuses. It's my job to be able to deal with when somebody's doing that. It's not his job to change up his tactics.
http://eliotmarshall.com/
I think with certain fighters its fairly obvious looking at their past physiques, etc. It’s not rocket science. I’m not trying to paint all fighters with this brush but lets be honest, there is def a huge problem with growth hormones in the sports world and you know that carries over into MMA where it would serve a huge advantage.
by lbk on Jan 9, 2009 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
no, you’re right, it’s not. They need some stringent systems in place though because I gurantee its widespread in MMA.
by lbk on Jan 9, 2009 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
I agree that it is easy to do that, and we may even be correct, especially in today’s PED world. However, I think we need to not just throw these accusations around, just as I think we need to not act like it does not go on.
I think the simple solution is test positive and you are banned for life. that is extreme, but I think it needs to be.
Eliot Marshall: Bader won. Like I said in the episode, I'm not going to make any excuses. It's my job to be able to deal with when somebody's doing that. It's not his job to change up his tactics.
http://eliotmarshall.com/
Of course
I simply was thinking “perfect world” scenario, but I guess in perfect world we wouldn;t even have to discuss this.
Eliot Marshall: Bader won. Like I said in the episode, I'm not going to make any excuses. It's my job to be able to deal with when somebody's doing that. It's not his job to change up his tactics.
http://eliotmarshall.com/
We don’t. I agree with you on this issue. I was just pointing out that steroids alone won’t do you much good.
Where did I state that one can gain benefits from just taking steroids? Please find that post. TY.
by lbk on Jan 9, 2009 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
Nobody says you did say that. In fact, Fagan hasn’t even been talking to you, as far as I can tell. Here’s how it looks to me:
Cyph wrote a post about people bulking up differently based on genetics.
Fagan wrote that steroids don’t bulk anyone up on their own.
Cyph then asked how we know Alves is juicing just by looking at him.
Fagan replied that we don’t and he was just pointing out ‘roids don’t do it alone.
Then you, in an attempt to continue defending your position that he’s juicing because he was suspended for diuretics, asked for proof that you said he can gain benefits just from taking steroids. Nobody has accused you of saying that, as far as I can tell.
Then again, I’m having a generally lousy day anyway. So maybe I’m wrong.
by Kierkegaard on Jan 9, 2009 4:16 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Rational logic FTW!
Good summary of the convo., Kierkegaard.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
no, but they show willingness to break the rules. you really think they suddenly stop when it comes to other illegal performance enhancers? Really?
by lbk on Jan 9, 2009 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
In this day and age, why wouldn’t I? Most elite athletes have failed piss tests over and over again. Of course i’m jaded.
What leads you to believe these guys are clean? Seriously..
by lbk on Jan 9, 2009 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
Because they pass the test
Damn, I thought that was obvious. Since I can’t prove the negative, I try to not to let these unreasonable suspicions bother me.
Eliot Marshall: Bader won. Like I said in the episode, I'm not going to make any excuses. It's my job to be able to deal with when somebody's doing that. It's not his job to change up his tactics.
http://eliotmarshall.com/
That fucking douschebag does take steroids… but that is not why he looks the way he does.
look up synthol. has absolutely no relevance to bb’ing though
Come on, “The Man Whose Arms Exploded” has provided is with hours of priceless entertainment, lol. Perhaps the most complete douche ever?
Eliot Marshall: Bader won. Like I said in the episode, I'm not going to make any excuses. It's my job to be able to deal with when somebody's doing that. It's not his job to change up his tactics.
http://eliotmarshall.com/
Wait, this is a real show? Seriously?
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Jan 9, 2009 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
Absolutely. they rerun it every now and again and I think it was on TLC. Check your local listings, lol. Not sure if it is available to view online. As sick as it is to watch these knuckleheads physically, their mental state is even more disturbing.
Eliot Marshall: Bader won. Like I said in the episode, I'm not going to make any excuses. It's my job to be able to deal with when somebody's doing that. It's not his job to change up his tactics.
http://eliotmarshall.com/
If you have not seen “The Man Whose Arms Exploded” on TLC or Discovery or whatever it was on, do so immediately. It will change your life, lol.
Eliot Marshall: Bader won. Like I said in the episode, I'm not going to make any excuses. It's my job to be able to deal with when somebody's doing that. It's not his job to change up his tactics.
http://eliotmarshall.com/
I disagree. Karo was barely top 10, maybe in the 11 or 12 spot in April when they fought. I’d agree that Alves beat two top 10 opponents in Hughes and Koscheck, but Hughes is on his way out and wasn’t the monster that he once was.
Alvarez defeated Kawajiri and Hansen, both guys are still at the top of their game right now. Mousasi went from fighting absolute nobodies to jumping up in competition against guys like Yoon, Manhoef, Kang, and Souza, all wins, and he went 6-0 in 2008.
While those names aren’t impressive rankings-wise, Yoon is much underrated, Manhoef is a monster and could arguably be lumped near top 10 if he took on any competition in the Middleweight arena toward the top. I’m fairly confident he could run over someone like Bisping, just my opinion. Kang is arguably is top 15, and Souza is a power grappler with a laundry list of credentials.
Alves had an impressive year, but I’d put Alvarez and Mousasi ahead of him easily.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Jan 9, 2009 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
For the record, my vote would go to Rashad Evans. Nobody thought he was going to beat Chuck, and he won the LHW title coming out of nowhere.
I don't like Rashad, but
its hard to argue against what he accomplished this year.
There are a couple of other hard to argue against choices, too, but Rashas still seems like the begrudingly best choice.
I hate to say it, but my vote would too. Except for maybe Gegard Mousassi.
2008 Record:
Win (Souza) KO (Upkick) Dream 6 – Middleweight Grand Prix 2008 Final 9/23/2008 1 2:15
Win (Manhoef) Submission (Triangle Choke) Dream 6 – Middleweight Grand Prix 2008 Final 9/23/2008 1 1:28
Win (Dong) Decision (Unanimous) Dream 4 – Middleweight Grand Prix 2008 Quarterfinals 6/15/2008 2 5:00
Win (Kang) Submission (Triangle Choke) Dream 2 – Middleweight Grand Prix 2008 Opening Round 4/29/2008 1 3:10
Win (Mensing) TKO (Punches) M-1 – Slamm 3/2/2008 1 2:44
Win (Santos) TKO (Punches) HCF – Destiny 2/1/2008 1 3:42
SIX wins in one year, over pretty quality opponents. I mean, I just made a post yesterday about how much I like Kang and Manhoef, and he took them both out. KOs, subs, he used it all.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Jan 9, 2009 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
And leveled Musashi in K-1. Sure, it’s not mma, but it’s versatility, which is lagniappe.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jan 9, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
No, it isn’t. I wouldn’t even begin to add that into a factor for fighter of the year. Musashi is about 5 years past his prime, and Mousasi simply closed distance and crushed him. It was the most lopsided kickboxing matchup watching it. You’d have thought Mousasi kickboxed professionally in K-1 before you thought Musashi did.
The other wins however are impressive. Yoon isn’t a can, he was just thrown to the wolves early in his career. He has very good Judo and submissions, he could arguably be close to top 15 if he was given the opportunities. Manhoef could break top 10 IMO, right now. Even without ample grappling ability, I think he could crush some guys like Bisping who hover around top 10, Santos is all or nothing, so I wouldn’t read too much into that win, but the Kang and Souza win are impressive to say the least.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Jan 9, 2009 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
That’s why it’s lagniappe – it’s not really a factor, just a little something to make it all sweeter.
Just as a loss in K-1 shouldn’t penalize his mma credentials, a win shouldn’t boost him.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jan 9, 2009 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
the problem is non of those guys are even ranked in the top 15 in their division if I remember correctly
Which was something I took issue with in the meta-rankings post. There’s a ton of good fighters out there, and the MW division is especially spread over several organizations, so it’s tough for anyone to fight the absolute cream of that division. I mean, who did Anderson Silva face in 2008? Dan Henderson, James Irvin (LHW), and Patrick Cote. Not exactly a murderer’s row. All things considered, Mousasi went from zero to 60 in one year, while fighting about every two months.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Jan 9, 2009 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
Kenny Florian
the most overlooked fighter of 2008. Should of been fighter of the year.
Disagreed
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Jan 9, 2009 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
Florian is the most hyped fighter out there
who doesn’t actually have reason to lay claim to that hype at this point. I understand why he does receive the attention..he sounds like a smart guy, he can lay his thoughts out there in a presentable fashion, and he’s been on a pretty good streak recently. And to top it all off, he’s obviously a Zuffa Man.
But to say he’s been overlooked is a fairly wild position to take. Good, maybe great fighter, but he’s not a guy who’s flying under the radar by ANY measure.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
There’s arguments for Thiago, and I don’t think it’s an “lolbad” choice, but I don’t think he’s close to being optimal. Rashad Evans, Anderson Silva, Miguel Torres, Georges St. Pierre and Gegard Mousasi all make much more compelling candidates.
I disagree with Torres being on that list. sure, he’s an entertaining fighter, but we have only seen him fight cans for the most part. Thre’s no depth at all in that division right now. We need to see him fight top 5 talent at that level to make any determination. Certainly not fighter of the year worthy based on his competition.
by lbk on Jan 9, 2009 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
Same here, Torres isn’t fighter of the year. I think people tend to push that because he was an unknown to most people, and most fans never heard of him. I’ve been following Torres for awhile since he’s in and around the Illinois area.
Tapia, Maeda, and Beebe were all good wins, but I don’t think the quality was there at all. The hype pushed the Tapia fight to a level that was absurd. It was a lopsided matchup in my opinion. I also think the Beebe matchup was lopsided as well, very lopsided. Maeda fight was great, but it was only really great because Torres decided to punch it out.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Jan 9, 2009 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
Those guys are ranked 16th, 9th, and 14th by FightMatrix. And that’s after the losses to Torres. Sherdog had Tapia at 8 (and Beebe) at 10 before the Dec. 3rd card.
Ok, so what are you saying? That Torres had quality top 10 wins?
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Jan 9, 2009 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with this choice, but I think it’s easy to make a case for a few other fighters as well.
"BJ on the BE" - Kierkegaard
Yeah.
I was struggling with who I felt was fighter of the year. My first thought was Kenny Florian, and while he had three victories, as much as I like Joe Lauzon, he’s just not a top 20 fighter, so that put KENFLO a little behind some other guys to me.
I was thinking Brock as well, but he lost to Mir. I was trying to find guys who had at least three wins on the year without having lost any matches, and then going buy the level of competition they faced to put a fighter above or below another.
So, beating three top ten guys gave Alves the strongest resume of the year. Now, there are other things you can consider, like his missed weight against Hughes and the fact that he fought Koscheck on short notice, but he not only won both of those fights, but he dominated each fight and in the case of the Hughes match, stopped him.
But if you want to tell me that you think Rashad Evans, or Anderson Silva, or GSP, or BJ Penn, or Kenny Florian, or Gegard Moussasi is the fighter of the year, I won’t protest.
In Moussasi’s case, though, he fought a ton more people than anyone else, but only two of his fights were against top 20 talent (Kang & Jacare). In the case of Jacare, it was the second match in a tournament setting, which is always kind of weird to consider a normal match circumstance, because you don’t know how much either fighter was injured or made tired by their first fight, even though both Jacare and Moussasi beat that ass in their respective first fights. But still, if you want to tell me Moussasi is your fighter of they year, I’d be fine with that.
"BJ on the BE" - Kierkegaard
No.
Alves is not fighter of the year.
He beat Karo, which was a BS stoppage.
He beat an aging Hughes which would have meant something a few years ago. Add to the fact that Alves was a metric ton overweight at weigh ins and in the actual fight he probably was 190lbs+. He made Matt Hughes look tiny in comparison.
He beat Koscheck who came in on 2 weeks notice I believe. And do to this he gets a title shot…
I don’t think Alves is fighter of the year.
BS Stoppage? No, it wasn’t. Karo is overrated.
Aging Hughes? Agreed.
Short notice? Agreed.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Jan 9, 2009 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
I never said he wasnt overrated I just was saying that it was an early stoppage. If I rmember correctly Karo got dropped like a sack of potatoes but was still in the fight. 2 punches from Alves and the fight was stopped.
I remember a few replays showing Karo getting caught, then taking about 2-3 punches on his way down with literally no arm movement trying to block them. I specifically remember Rogan actually calling it a quick stoppage, then saying… “Oh look, he was limp on the way down, that must have been what the referee saw”… not the exact words, but the gist of the dialogue after the replay. I agreed at that moment it was the correct call.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Jan 9, 2009 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
Even if the ref hadn’t stopped it, does anyone really think Alves would have let up or Karo magically recover?
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jan 9, 2009 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
Probably not, I think Alves was going to crush Parisyan from the get go for the mere fact that Parisyan wasn’t going to stand with Alves, and Parisyan doesn’t finish too well.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Jan 9, 2009 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
Media blackout of Japan
I’m a bit hesitant to push this, but I think some of the bigger sites are pushing UFC fighters over anyone else. Yahoo picks up Anderson Silva, Gross goes after Silva, MMAWeekly hits Alves, and Sherdog hits Rashad.
I think it’s a bit odd that guys like Alvarez and Mousasi are left in the cold. Alvarez in particular since he was also involved in two potential FIGHTS of the YEAR.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
I think the loss to Aoki really hurt him. I had Alvarez pegged as my Fighter OTY until the loss.
You argued earlier in the thread that Torres wins weren’t up to snuff, and I think that’s the case with Mousasi. His best win is Kang, who is 18th on FightMatrix. Then you have Manhoef at 19, Jacare at 28, and Dongbar at 45. He has two meaningless (IMO) wins over Cyborg and Steve Mensing as well. Again, the argument can be made for sure, and I love Mousasi, but it isn’t slam dunk.
I think the idea of a “Japan blackout” is rather contrived.
Torres was already considered one of the best 135lb fighters before 2008 though, Mousasi had to work his way up this year. Kang was a lot higher than 18th on most rankings when Gegard beat him too.
That sounds more like you’re talking about the qualifications for “breakout fighter of the year.”
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
I’m not even going off of being the best fighter at 135 lbs. already starting out the year. I simply think Beebe was a champion because they didn’t have anyone else really up to snuff in the division at the time.
I think at 135 lbs, it really comes down to skill, and nobody is on the same page as Torres in that division. I think his labeling as being the best at 135 lbs. already does hurt his nomination though because when Anderson Silva hit Middleweight against Rich Franklin, there were many more questions and theories that Franklin could beat Silva. Silva crushed those theories.
We don’t really have that comparison with Torres because A.) not many people care about the 135 lb. division, and B.) Torres was considered to be highly skilled over Beebe and Tapia
Maeda was a bit of a different fight because I think Torres was out to prove he could outstrike a guy known as being a striker.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Jan 9, 2009 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
Mike,
I like Mousasi in theory, but I agree…
There is only one problem that I have with Mousasi’s record, most of his opponents have been royally underrated for a long time.
Yoon was thrown to the wolves, Manhoef could arguably crush someone like Bisping in 10 seconds, and Bisping is arguably a #10 in the top 10, Souza could be a top 10 guy down the road.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Jan 9, 2009 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly
Kang when he fought Mousasi was still top 10 and dropped off the deep end after the Mousasi loss. That doesn’t seem so bad anymore does it? Kang’s record is about identical to Marquardt’s except Marquardt has the UFC hype machine behind him so he’s #5 in the world. Kang is somehow like 20 something. Both guys should be around 10-15.
Manhoef would DESTROY Bisping and any number of top 10 fighters. His record doesn’t justify him being ranked top 10 but he is more dangerous than all but for 2 or 3 fighters in the entire division. One mistake and you’re DONE. The same goes for Jacare. Jacare doesn’t yet deserve to be ranked but lets put him against Maia and see how he does. We all know how everybody feels about Maia. Mousasi got taken down by him and was able to work from side control back to guard and then KO him with the upkick. Add to this Pork Friend Rice who is another unranked yet dangerous fighter and you’ve got the MOST impressive 4 wins of the year. More impressive than overrated Karo, catchweight Hughes and a short notice Kos. More impressive than Serra and Fitch. More impressive than down-on-his-luck Chuck and Forrest.
The other two wins are just gravy
Gimme 1 Round!
I like Alves
And I think he would have ran over a very well prepared Diego too. Dont see why people are despeartly trying to take away from his wins. I also think hes the only guy that can give GSP a run for his money. Step aside cabbage patch kid. As for MMAWeeklys decision I’m not bothered with it. Me personal I had GSP or Rashad FTW!!!
I absolutely agree with you that Alves is the one fighter who could potentially beat GSP. However, is he fighter of the year? No, that reasoning is up there with Barnett being #2 ranked.
Really? Barnett beat 3 top 10 guys in his weight class this year?
I fail to see how the 2 are similar?
by lbk on Jan 9, 2009 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
no, you said the reasoning for alves being fighter of the year is up there with barnett being ranked 2. I am inferring that barnett never beat any quality opponents this year to justify that ranking as Alves has beaten 3 top 10 welters in a year.
by lbk on Jan 9, 2009 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
horrible pick
my pick Aaron Riley
then again i am rediculous homer,
but honestly no love for frank MIR?
if not for him then his amazingly awesome/hot wife
Mir wouldn’t be a bad pick actually. 2 top 10 victories and he finished Nog. Huge year for Mir. If he defeats Brock next year that will cement his status. And I think he will defeat Brock.
by lbk on Jan 9, 2009 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
why not
i dont like lesnar, when i was in highschool watching him wrestle in college i hated his style it was so conservative whenever he wreslted a big guy and i still hold that against him. but to not say he is at worst a top ten guy after he spent 45 seconds dribbling randy’s hed off the mat like he was skip to my lou is insane, admit it he is a fighter of note. and mir schooled him. I never thought Mir was that good i thought Nog would roll through him, i consider myself completly converted to the Frank Mir Cult.
He’s a top ten HW after the Herring and Couture fight for sure. But I’m not sure you can credit Mir with a “top 10” victory against a guy who was in his second pro fight.
It should be noted that I’m arguably the biggest Lesnar fanboy on staff.
Lesnar was winning that fight until it was stood back up. I think it was a big win for Mir
by lbk on Jan 9, 2009 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
It should be noted that I’m arguably the biggest Lesnar fanboy…
I keep trying to like him, his skills are phenomenal, but then he talks…
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jan 9, 2009 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
LOL, agreed.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Jan 9, 2009 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah!
subo and I are still actively debating who belongs in the driver’s seat of the BLNHC bus.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
After watching Randy battle Pedro Rizzo in a match that was shown on Wired the other day, I really appreciated Lesnars victory that much more. Randy is such a warrior.
by lbk on Jan 9, 2009 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
Really?
You hold him wrestling conservatively against big guys that you watched in college? lol
He took my lunch money in high school & I hold that against him as well!
he took a lot of lunch money
not to take anything away from u but against the truly top tier guys in the ncaa’s all he did was sit in his stance and sprawl, he didn’t move he didn’t do anything he just sat there and relied on being a natural albino gorilla. As someone who made it to college on very little physical talent i used to get pretty offended by that shit. he may have won titles but at that level he defiantly wasn’t the best wrestler
also im a bitter Irishman who rode the bench at a d 3 school we tend to hold a grudge
by bearcox13 on Jan 9, 2009 4:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, but that’s all biased opinion and it’s also based on how everyone ranks fighters. I’m personally against this whole Leapfrogging schema that we are currently working many of the rankings under. Lesnar defeats the #2 guy and suddenly, he leapfrogs to #2, seems bullshit to me. I’d be much more inclined to an ELO setting for those types of matchups instead of leapfrogging guys ahead after 2 professional fights.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Jan 9, 2009 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
I wanted to give it to Mir, but at the time he beat Lesnar, he was still a neophyte in the sport, and he wasn’t dominant throughout the fight, of course. That stoppage of Nog, though, you can’t give him anything but respect for that.
But yes, he was undefeated and beat what ended up being two of the best heavyweights in the world in one year. If he had beaten Brock after Brock beat Randy and stopped Nog in the same year, then I think it would be tough to argue against Mir, even if he had only fought twice in the year.
"BJ on the BE" - Kierkegaard
Thiago was my pick. He’s beat 3 top 10, possibly top 5 guys and finished them all. Rashad is 2nd IMO, having only 2 fights hurts it for me. Torres comes in 3rd.
TORRES
how did i forget about torres, his one fight with the double toe holds, blew my mind. that was the exact moment i went all in on the WEC and started moving more toward being a hardcore fan rather than just watching a UFC every now and then
Yep, he’s another great choice for fighter of the year.
He beat Chase Beebe to win the title, who at the time was a top 10 fighter. That’s an understatement, actually, because Torres absolutely crushed Beebe.
He beat Yoshiro Maeda, another top ten fighter in one of the very best fights of the year. Torres wasn’t as dominant here, but he beat Maeda so hard that doctors prevented him from coming out for round four, so, obviously, that’s a great performance.
He beat Manny Tapia, who some would place as a top ten fighter and I would put a bit lower. Regardless, he is a top 20 fighter and he was undefeated going into the fight, and Torres crushed him.
Torres is a great choice. I think the reason people overlook him is because he is so good and so far above the rest of the division that people expect him to not only win but to dominate his opposition. With Alves, he surprised folks when he beat Karo and Hughes. Which is to say that Torres is being a bit unfairly overlooked, I think.
"BJ on the BE" - Kierkegaard
I’m pretty surprised that the majority seem to think this is a bad pick. He’s my pick simply because I believe he’s the only fighter to beat three consensus top 10 fighters in 2008. Here are my responses to the relevant points:
Karo Parisyan is overrated: Karo has consistently beaten quality opponents since coming to the UFC and has only lost to top fighters: GSP, Sanchez, Alves.
Matt Hughes is over the hill: Maybe, maybe not- he hasn’t fought very often recently, but so far only GSP dismantled him the way Alves did.
Koscheck took the fight on late notice: This is certainly relevant, but I doubt he would’ve beaten Alves with a full training camp- it’s bad matchup for him.
Alves didn’t make weight for the Hughes fight: Also relevant, but in my eyes it doesn’t detract from the win that much. Were 4 pounds really that much of a factor in the fight? It is a basic requirement to make weight, but there are sometimes extenuating circumstances. As long as it doesn’t become a pattern (ahem, Carano) then I can forgive that.
Alves is taking steroids: Maybe, maybe not- until he tests positive it’s all speculation.
Other thoughts: Evans and Mousasi are my other top candidates, but Evans only fought twice and Mousasi’s level of competition isn’t up to par with Alves. GSP also only fought twice- and one of those was against a guy who wouldn’t be in the top 10 except for the fact that he lost to him in their first fight. People give “bonus points” to Evans and GSP for winning the title and for having more exposure, but I think the two most significant factors should be level of competition and number of fights.
Right, but
“but I think the two most significant factors should be level of competition and number of fights”
Those aren’t bad criteria, but you haven’t made the case that that’s as significant or more important as level of accomplishment. In fact, there are probably a host of factors one could look to beyond simply frequency of fights and level of competition.
Strength of schedule is a significant stat, but Alves’ statistic would be difficult to assess. On paper, his strength of schedule was phenomenal, as in it was the toughest out of all of the nominees, but when you add in things like Hughes looking like absolute crap as he ages, not making weight, and Koscheck coming in on short notice, you can’t factor those into a statistic like that.
Those things make me take away from Alves this year.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Jan 9, 2009 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
Kos trains year round so I don’t think it would have mattered had he been given another 8 weeks to prepare. I think they both knew the others intentions coming into the fight.
by lbk on Jan 9, 2009 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
It does matter. Yoshida wasn’t considered a dangerous striker, so Koscheck was likely working heavily on takedown defense, submission defense, striking the ground. He went from working on that to suddenly going against a guy who is normally flying at you with knees, using heavy handed punches, and generally using a Muay Thai base.
I think it matters.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Jan 9, 2009 4:54 PM EST up reply actions
That's Bullshit.
About 174 lbs. worth of bullshit.
A professional fighter who misses weight for a contracted bout is automatically disqualified for fighter of the year consideration.
Sorry.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on Jan 9, 2009 3:26 PM EST reply actions
171 lbs. of bullshit you mean. His last fight he weighed in at 171. So I’m not sure what the hell your talking about. Hughes was like 6 months ago. Move on kid!
You do know that the recognition was for “Fighter of the Year” — right? You’ve now posted that haters are talking about stuff from “years” ago and that he came in overweight way back 6 months ago — 6 months ago was squarely in the middle of the “year” he’s being recognized for, and that fight is arguably the top win of the three upon which his recognition is based.
Not sure why you think it’s entirely irrelevant?
Man, some people really don’t like Karo. I think he’s top ten, certainly before the Alves loss and arguably after it.
Firstly, he’s only lost in the octagon to Diego Sanchez (in one of the best fights of the year) and GSP (albeit early in his career, but he was still pretty darn good then) by UD and was knocked out for the first time by Thiago Alves who went on to destroy Hughes and Koscheck. He’s also beaten Chonan, Burkman, Thompson, Serra, Fickett, Lytle, and Diaz.
Secondly, he apparently suffers from panic attacks, which is in no way equivalent to having no heart.
Thirdly, I tend to think that anybody that gets into a cage and gets punched for a living has some measure of heart.
And fourthly, it’s pretty damn bold for you to pontificate about Karo having no heart from your couch.
by Rundownloser on Jan 9, 2009 5:46 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
I love this comment so much that I want to print it out and have it bronzed. Choi’d.
"BJ on the BE" - Kierkegaard
Agreed on the panic attacks
He shouldn’t be attacked for a debilitating medical condition. It’s the same with Paulo Filho – it wasn’t a lack of heart that caused him to be so strange in his last fight, but a lack of mind. He should not have been fighting in the first place, but at least he never quit. I’d argue that Sonnen showed less heart by not having a reason to explain his suckiness.
As a lifelong sufferer of panic attacks, I can’t stand it when others say it’s a lack of mental strength. It’s so much more than that.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jan 9, 2009 7:20 PM EST up reply actions
Boy this place is becoming more like Sherdog by the minute while I don’t agree with Alves he is definately in the conversation as fighter of the year. Anyone questioning his impressive wins over Karo, Hughes or Koscheck is an idiot and needs to learn about MMA before talking about it. Calling Karo overated is shows not only ignorance but lack of any semblance of mma knowledge, the guys is one of the best WW in the world and that was the only time he’s ever been stopped. Hughes is the greatest WW of all-time and he stopped him too plus Koscheck is a beast who gets better everytime out wake up people hate for hate’s sake is sad and useless let’s stick to facts and leave out the personal bias and bs.
Takes the high road…
Boy this place is becoming more like Sherdog by the minute
Then the low…
Anyone questioning his impressive wins over Karo, Hughes or Koscheck is an idiot and needs to learn about MMA before talking about it.
Would this be ironic or hypocritical, I forget?
I could be either
depending on how intentional it is.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
by AJB on Jan 9, 2009 6:51 PM EST up reply actions
pedantic
One entry found.
Main Entry:
pe·dan·tic Listen to the pronunciation of pedantic
Pronunciation:
\pi-ˈdan-tik\
Function:
adjective
Date:
circa 1600
1 : of, relating to, or being a pedant 2 : narrowly, stodgily, and often ostentatiously learned 3 : unimaginative , pedestrian
— pe·dan·ti·cal·ly Listen to the pronunciation of pedantically \-ˈdan-ti-k(ə-)lē\ adverb
Eliot Marshall: Bader won. Like I said in the episode, I'm not going to make any excuses. It's my job to be able to deal with when somebody's doing that. It's not his job to change up his tactics.
http://eliotmarshall.com/
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