Gabriel Gonzaga's Road to the Title Goes Through Shane Carwin at UFC 96

by Cannon Jacques on Jan 7, 2009 11:48 PM EST in News Comment 82 comments

Though this bout has yet to be confirmed, Fight Ticker has the scoop via Gabriel Gonzaga's trainer:

Gonzaga on the other hand has his future set. On March 7th at UFC 96 in Columbus, Ohio, "Napao" will take on fellow HW and rising star Shane Carwin. Gonzaga who previously fought for the title in August '07 against Randy Couture in Couture's final bout before his 15 month retirement, has strung together two straight wins after his losses to Couture and Werdum. By dominating an overmatched Josh Hendricks at UFC 91 in November, it appears that Gonzaga has proven to UFC management that he is back on his game and ready for a shot at the title once again, IF he can get through Shane Carwin that is.

Who are the contenders at heavyweight? Well, this fight will definitely shed some light on that question. While Gonzaga has maintained his position at the top of the list, Carwin, up to this point, has only been viewed as a guy with a ton of potential. None of Carwin's first ten opponents have managed to make it out of the first round. A win over Gonzaga would vault him toward the top of the heavyweight food chain.

Gonzaga has bounced back in his two most recent fights although his last two opponents (Josh Hendricks and Justin McCully) aren't exactly top tier competition. The UFC matchmakers have done what they can to rehab the Brazilian's image. Besting Carwin shouldn't be an easy task as the former college wrestler is a huge athlete - much like Brock Lesnar - with proven knockout power.

In my opinion, Gonzaga would be wise to view this upcoming match as a must win. The last man to beat him, Fabricio Werdum, was let go by the promotion after suffering a knockout loss. Napao's tenure with the UFC could end much the same way if he is unable to dispose of Carwin. It's a potential title shot if he wins and decidedly uncertain future if he doesn't. The outlook is much different for Carwin. A loss to Gonzaga certainly isn't something to be ashamed of, but a win would definitely cement his place as a heavyweight contender. If this fight does come to fruition, it will be an example of superb matchmaking by Joe Silva and the UFC.

Update: MMA Weekly is reporting that the match has, in fact, been signed. Thanks to BE commenter EVeezy for the heads up.

0 recs | Comment 82 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Gabriel looks cold in that picture.

by nitro on Jan 7, 2009 11:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Impossible!!

The guy is like a Portugese Robin Williams. The back of his neck is like Gilbert Melendez’s head.

by Gogoplatapus on Jan 8, 2009 11:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If my point didnt get a cross…..

He’s hairy.

by Gogoplatapus on Jan 8, 2009 11:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ooooohhh….

by Tonley on Jan 8, 2009 1:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t know if it’s a must win in terms of him getting immediately cut, though they probably will try to renegotiate his contract (which might get him to walk away). I think that the heavyweight division is weak enough, both within and without the UFC that they are going to keep those that they have as much as they can.

And before anybody says anything about Werdum getting cut, Gonzaga was featured prominently alongside Randy Couture for the build-up to UFC 74 and is much more exciting than Werdum, as well.

by Rundownloser on Jan 7, 2009 11:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

The fight has been signed http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=7916&zoneid=13
Big step for Carwin, hope he gets the win met him at UFC 88 seemed to be a very respectful and soft spoken guy

by EVeezy on Jan 8, 2009 12:00 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I would hope

that this is NOT a loser-must-go fight. Both guys have tons of potential – it isn’t like either guy losing just lost to a gatekeeper.

by mythbuster on Jan 8, 2009 12:06 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

If Gonzaga is as mentally fragile in this fight as in his past, he’s in for a world of pain. One massive, mouthpiece-ejecting punch and Gonzaga will fold. That’s the reason why he has probably peaked – he doesn’t have the mental fortitude. I’m hoping for a great fight, but if GG goes to pieces again, he should be dropped from the Top 10.

Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by themachiavellian on Jan 8, 2009 12:10 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I wonder who gets the shot if Carwin wins? If it’s anyone BUT Carwin, I smell a rat. Who else would you like him to beat, and who gets the shot in the interim?

by subo on Jan 8, 2009 12:11 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

quick,, name the one quality opponent gonzaga and carwin have beaten….

crocop who is on the downside of his career

this division is pathetic and the fact they mgiht give either of these guys a title shot if they win is just nuts… they have both beaten nothing but cans

by dbcb on Jan 8, 2009 12:12 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Right...

A person should only get a title shot if they beat Herring. Crocop doesn’t count, only Herring.

by mythbuster on Jan 8, 2009 12:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

hmmmmm

UFC 70… gonzaga KO crocop

his next fight

UFC 74… against randy couture

hmmmmm seems he DID GET A FUCKING TITLE SHOT FOR BEATING CROCOP

by dbcb on Jan 8, 2009 12:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Cro Cop might have been his most notable victory, but he’d won three straight UFC fights before that victory. It seemed pretty obvious that the Cro Cop/Gonzaga fight was set up so Cro Cop could get a shot at Couture with a win over a UFC veteran in Gonzaga. It just happens that Gonzaga spoiled that superfight with a high kick.

by Cannon Jacques on Jan 8, 2009 12:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i have no problem him getting a title shot after that fight… at the time, crocop was prolly top 5 HW

sense, then, he has done nothing but get pummeled and beat cans

by dbcb on Jan 8, 2009 12:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You’ve got a point. He hasn’t beaten anyone at or above his level since he beat Cro Cop. That’s why I think this upcoming
Carwin match is extremely important for him.

by Cannon Jacques on Jan 8, 2009 12:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He’s been competitive in every fight he’s been in. He’s beaten CroCop worse than any other fighter. This guy is top ten. I don’t know how you can argue that.

by cyph on Jan 8, 2009 11:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe you should read what you originally wrote.

by mythbuster on Jan 8, 2009 12:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t agree. You’ve just got a lot of guys who haven’t really made a reputation for themselves, and there are some of the old guard that are probably nearing the end of their respective careers. I just think you’ve got to give guys like Gonzaga and Carwin a chance to progress before you label the whole lot of them as “weak.”

by Cannon Jacques on Jan 8, 2009 12:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Gonzaga is 8 int he last meta rankings and he has beaten exactly one fighter worth a damn

that makes a divsion VERY weak IMO

by dbcb on Jan 8, 2009 12:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The meta rankings take into account all heavyweights, not just the UFC. Certainly, you can make the argument that there aren’t as many ‘great’ heavyweights as light heavyweights or welterweights or whatever. I think that’s true to an extent. But a guy like Carwin, I just don’t know how good he is.

by Cannon Jacques on Jan 8, 2009 12:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Gonzaga is overrated, but I wouldn’t label him as weak. The big win over CroCop catapulted this guy into the spotlight, and many fans can’t let go of the fact that he probably isn’t going to be back in the picture.

Sure, he’s a decent striker, great on the ground, but the division is only getting bigger and stronger. Gonzaga will likely fold into the mid-tier of the division.

Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com

by Leland Roling on Jan 8, 2009 9:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Crocop wasnt on the downside of his career until he fought gonzaga…

To think he Mirko would have just thrown one damn left straight Gonzaga would have probably folded and we would have saw crocop vs couture.

by mmalogic on Jan 8, 2009 12:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Are you commenting from a phone without a keyboard or something?

Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

by Richard Wade on Jan 8, 2009 12:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

When did Shane Carwin

beat Crocop? or did you mean cumulatively?

Gimme 1 Round!

by skwirrl on Jan 8, 2009 7:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I honestly don’t get where this mentally fragille thing with Gonzaga comes from anyone who knows about what was going on with Napao before his UFC debut knows this guy is all heart. Gabe’s biggest problem is his cardio he was wrecking Werdum until he pulled an Overeem and gassed out, if he can get that up to par there will be no stopping him.

Also I love how many excuses people come up with whenever a Pride legend gets humbled in the cage, Cro Crop who came off winning the HW GP got destroyed by Gabe and now he sucks. Nog who was #2 ranked HW was stopped by Mir, now needs to retire yet they turn around and talk about how great Fedor is when those are his 2 biggest wins. It’s amazing how full of crap some MMA fans these days or should I say how full of crap these Pride fanatics are.

by Raker on Jan 8, 2009 12:16 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Huh, Nog should think twice because he made Frank Mir look like Muhammad Ali. It’s not that he lost, it’s that Nog showed he was incapable of ducking a single shot. I’d like to see more Big Nog, but not if he is going to get he crap kicked out him because his reflexes have slowed.

by bignerd on Jan 8, 2009 12:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Nogueira looked like Gary Goodridge, and that worries me. I mean, not literally exactly like Goodridge, but he was a step away from basically being a walking punching bag.

Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com

by Leland Roling on Jan 8, 2009 9:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Against Couture, once his nose was broken, the fight left him. Consider the confusion over wiping the blood from his face; he was looking for any way to pause the fight. Against Verdum, once he caught Gonzaga’s leg kick, he looked listless, and at the end, he just turtled and waited for it to be over. The punches weren’t even that powerful or flush, but Gonzaga looked mentally defeated. Considering how hard Carwin hits, we could see the same thing again.

Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by themachiavellian on Jan 8, 2009 1:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

To be fair, once one’s nose is broken, it’s kinda hard to breathe through it, making one gas out even quicker. And actually I didn’t see him fold after it broke. He broke Randy’s arm with that high kick only after getting his nose broken. He kept fighting after it broke, and long after he could have found a way out.

Additionally, I think the knees from Werdum are what did him in. I’ll admit it’s been awhile since I’ve seen the fight but, Werdum’s knees were really improved and at the time of the fight I thought that they hurt him pretty bad and that started the collapse as his game broke down. It seemed more a tactical and strategic error than a guy quitting in the cage.

by Rundownloser on Jan 8, 2009 2:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Frankly, I’m impressed that Gonzaga had the tank to bleed all over Randy’s back for about twelve minutes. And anyone that tries to tell you Randy’s skull landing right on Big Nose’s big nose was coincidental is full of shit.

by subo on Jan 8, 2009 5:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It was gonzaga’s own knee that did… watch it in slow mo.

But yeah the man showed very good resolve in that fight.

by mmalogic on Jan 8, 2009 7:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Gonzaga’s own knee caused the breakage.

Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com

by Leland Roling on Jan 8, 2009 9:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

To clarify, I don’t necessarily believe that a loss to Gonzaga means he’s out of the UFC. It would put him in a bad position. I just don’t think he can afford to lose several fights to legitimate contenders. I don’t think Carwin has anything to worry about if he loses. A win just boosts his status.

by Cannon Jacques on Jan 8, 2009 12:17 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I meant to say…a loss by Gonzaga not a loss to.

by Cannon Jacques on Jan 8, 2009 12:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Zuffa is paying Gonzaga very well I would not be surprised if Zuffa let him go and brought in young prospects elsewhere.

by EVeezy on Jan 8, 2009 12:20 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I doubt it. He’s a lot more popular and exciting than the likes of Werdum, and unless he refuses to renegotiate they’ll keep him around until his skills completely fall off a cliff.

by Michaelthebox on Jan 8, 2009 4:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I’m looking forward to Gonzaga “Tim Sylvia” popping Carwin’s “Brandon Vera-esc” bubble. Another so called UFC up and comer shall bite the dust . . .and Gonzaga will still get released like Tim because he is good enough to kill there young talent but not popular enough to carry the division.

by bignerd on Jan 8, 2009 12:22 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

And your hatred of Carwin stems from…?

by mythbuster on Jan 8, 2009 12:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I see a parallel with Brandon Vera and Carwin, no hatred.

by bignerd on Jan 8, 2009 12:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And the Vera hatred (other than he’s not as good as he once was)?

by subo on Jan 8, 2009 12:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The Vera hatred . . . again not hate on Vera himself but the entire campaign of him being an up and comer. Until Tim Sylvia, his competition at HW didn’t warrant the hype, now the guy is struggling with the middle class of the LWH division. I don’t want to hear that he beat Frank Mir, journeymen MMA’s were beating Frank after his accident.

Let’s not make the same mistake and get ahead of ourselves with Carwin, he’s been pummeling the lower tier of HW and needs this win or at least a good showing to prove he is an up and comer.

by bignerd on Jan 8, 2009 1:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You mean Sudo...

Vera was NEVER any good. And you all bought the ZUFFA hype machine

Gimme 1 Round!

by skwirrl on Jan 8, 2009 7:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Disagreed.

Vera’s problem stems from inability to listen to any type of gameplan. He’s turned into somewhat of a brawler when he actually gets in the cage, never resorting to kicks or a gameplan of any kind. That’s why he was being reamed by his coaches in his last two bouts.

Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com

by Leland Roling on Jan 8, 2009 9:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Vera’s problem is not isolated…

There are lots of guys who get more than they think they’re worth and all of sudden lose their instincts.

Carwin doesnt have that problem as he isn’t being paid like Vera is.

by mmalogic on Jan 8, 2009 1:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t think Vera’s performance problems ever had anything to do with pay. He was smashing guys who were clearly less athletic than he was and game never translated when he climbed in with the big boys. Carwin has been on the same path, let’s see how he fares against Gonzaga were he won’t have a enormous athletic advantage.

by bignerd on Jan 8, 2009 1:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I call it the Rizzo effect…

Some fighters – once they get “paid” can’t function correctly anymore.

Happened to crocop also.

Its a freaky phenomenon.

by mmalogic on Jan 8, 2009 2:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The Rizzo Effect . . .

That’s the first example I give some merit . . . still I’ve heard others argue Rizzo had already taken too much of a beating as a reason for his decline. Crocop was already getting good money before the UFC.

by bignerd on Jan 8, 2009 3:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Mirko loved pride…

You think he left for a 20% pay raise?

by mmalogic on Jan 8, 2009 4:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The Man got PAID.

by mmalogic on Jan 8, 2009 7:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

LOL, that’s absurd.

I think a better theory would be the Mark Hunt effect. Get paid to basically get crushed. But that’s not this case.

Vera’s performance problems can be attributed to terrible listening skills, and the fact that he honestly hasn’t even been that unbelievable.

Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com

by Leland Roling on Jan 8, 2009 9:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Gotcha

I see a parallel with Brandon Vera and Carwin, no hatred.

So you want to see Carwin exposed as a bad fighter (which has no basis in reality) simply due to your overwhelming desire to not have any good heavyweights. If anyone might be good, you will root against them and hope they fail for no other reason than… still haven’t figured that out.

by mythbuster on Jan 8, 2009 10:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He hasn’t been exposed as a good fighter but he is currently praised as a good fighter . . . we will finally see if he is up to the hype.

by bignerd on Jan 8, 2009 4:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe, but you said:

I’m looking forward to Gonzaga "Tim Sylvia" popping Carwin’s "Brandon Vera-esc" bubble. Another so called UFC up and comer shall bite the dust . . .

I’m still wondering why you are looking forward to it. Is it something personal against him, or are you just a negative person?

Because, you see, most normal people would say, “I hope he is good so that we have some good fights in the future!”, instead of, “I hope he is bad so I can continue to whine about how bad the division is!”.

by mythbuster on Jan 8, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I’m not a big Tim fan but he left the UFC and he didn’t get fired and he left after getting beat by the #2 and #4 ranked heavyweights in the world at the time.

by EVeezy on Jan 8, 2009 12:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The winner of this fight is not getting a title shot. According to Joe Rogan every winner of every heavyweight match is “next in line for a shot”…

The winner of couture v nog will get the next shot.

These guys: Carwin – Kongo – Cain – all need seasoning.

by mmalogic on Jan 8, 2009 12:29 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

The powers that be would never, ever allow Nog-Mir II. Couture-Lesnar II or Nog-Lesnar are very possible. But my man Carwin beats Gonzaga, and I’m on board for him being next.

by subo on Jan 8, 2009 12:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I can see Carwin not getting an immediate shot if he wins, but I’m not sure what to do with Gonzaga if he doesn’t get another chance at the title following a win over Carwin. I guess they could give him the loser of Mir/Lesnar. How long is Randy going to be sidelined making that movie?

by Cannon Jacques on Jan 8, 2009 12:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Frankly, if Randy fights at HW again, I’ll be pretty surprised.

by subo on Jan 8, 2009 12:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He said he’ll fight Nog. You know that the UFC would be more than happy to put on that fight.

by Dooda on Jan 8, 2009 2:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The way Nog looked against Mir I`m not surprised that Couture wants to fight him. He`s a likable guy Mr Natural, though somewhat opportunistic.

Anyone heard him go around asking for a rematch with Brock recently?

"They called him the axe-murderer because he was murdering chumps. They should have been calling him the chump-murderer..." Rampage Jackson (commentating on the fighting abilities of Wanderlei "F#ck Chuck" Silva.)

by BlueberryMuffin on Jan 8, 2009 2:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yep he mentioned he still wants a rematch with Brock, but as of now he’s actually training Brock since Lesnar decided to stay a Xtreme Couture while he’s in Vegas.

by Pandanus on Jan 8, 2009 7:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

do you really think randy is scared? that a fighter that has reached the level he has is secretly walking around afraid to fight people?

by Headkick on Jan 8, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And it’s the fight that makes the most sense. Both near the end of their careers, both came off losses, both heavily decorated legends of the game.

Seriously do you actually want to see Liddell/Couture 4?

by Pandanus on Jan 8, 2009 7:37 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

somewhere in brazil...

… fabricio is crying in his cheerios.

really excited about a potential lesnar/gonzaga, or even mir/gonzaga title fight…. assuming both of them can show up ready to go 25 minutes.

if carwin wins, i’d like to see him fight kongo before getting a title shot, but he beats gonzaga in spectacular fashion, then i think he deserves one straight away.

by woooburn on Jan 8, 2009 9:25 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Gonzaga's getting a shot?

Honestly, is Napao the only one who’s saying this? Has this been confirmed by White? Because if he’s actually getting a shot with a win over Carwin, it’s ridiculous. He’s not even remotely in the picture anywhere.

I’m chalking this up to wishful thinking by Gonzaga’s camp, and dellusional beliefs that they actually matter because he knocked out an aging CroCop and got to fight Randy once.

Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com

by Leland Roling on Jan 8, 2009 9:37 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

if not the winner of this match, then who?

the winner of nog/couture? that’s still a ways off, if it even happens.

by woooburn on Jan 8, 2009 11:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

and both guys past prime. We need new blood, finally.

by mythbuster on Jan 8, 2009 11:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Nobody is really in line, I think some of these lower ranking guys need to pull off 2 GOOD wins before a shot. I think Gonzaga facing loser of Couture/Nogueira would be better. Or potentially the winner. It’s better than suddenly going from fighting Carwin, generally a newcomer, to a title shot.

Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com

by Leland Roling on Jan 8, 2009 11:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That might work at a different weight class

but one of the HW champs only has 4 fights…(not that I don’t think he is a legit champ, I’m just saying)

by Razreshat on Jan 8, 2009 11:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

True enough.

I think the UFC needs to grab up some more talent in that case.

Jimmo, Herman, maybe bring back Imes for some cannon fodder or see if he finally swims, Struve was a good pickup, and I’d love to see Russow because I think he could do a lot of damage to the mid-tier.

Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com

by Leland Roling on Jan 8, 2009 12:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Agree with Leland.

The UFC can be set for the next year with HW matchups if they make the Nog-Couture fight, which they will.

Lesnar-Mir winner fights the Nog-Randy winner in another big name rematch. It wouldn’t bother me – Nog is a legend and Randy is a PPV monster and will be given another title fight if he beats Nog.

After that, it will be time to give Gonzaga/Carwin etc a shot.

by Hardcharger on Jan 8, 2009 12:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Lesnar-Mir winner fights the Nog-Randy winner in another big name rematch.

Worst.
Idea.
Ever.

Let’s say Lesnar beats Mir (odds)…
Randy was old and out-sized by a ton the first fight. Why the fuck should there be a second?
Nog looked like absolute shit against Mir. Can you imagine how badly screwed up he is going to be if he stands there and lets Lesnar donkey kong his head?

Nog vs Randy, and let them retire in peace. Memories of a bygone era aside, it’s time to let real contenders start contending for the title. Enough with this Randy, Chuck, Nog bullshit…

This isn’t aimed at your personally, Hardcharger. Too many people can’t get over the fact that their beloved OLD fighters are not as good as they once were. Lets get some real competition in the HW division, enough gimmes for the current champ.

by mythbuster on Jan 8, 2009 1:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think Couture vs. Lesnar would be a great fight once again, but not so soon. Since Randy’s gameplan was ultimately working in that fight, I think it could be another massive drawing card.

But that’s down the road, and Randy will likely have retired by then.

Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com

by Leland Roling on Jan 8, 2009 2:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Randy’s plan was to be easily manhandled and to lose by decision?

Maybe you forgot how the fight really went: Bloody Elbow UFC 91 Live Results

by mythbuster on Jan 8, 2009 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I’m not predicting Randy would be Lesnar in a rematch.

I’m just saying that a Lesnar-Couture rematch would be great business for the UFC. They want to make big PPVs. I don’t blame them.

Randy wasn’t doing awfully the first fight. I’d be excited to see the rematch, even though I’d pick Lesnar to stop Randy again.

by Hardcharger on Jan 8, 2009 4:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t understand all the upset over this. What everyone said when the impromptu 4-man tournament was announced was:

*sorts out the “interm” title shit

and

*buys time to sort out the rest of the division to decide which of the younger guys are going to be fast-tracked for title shots and which are going to be given more time

That appears to be exactly what is happening. So what if Gonzaga or Carwin haven’t beaten the same level of competition as the top guys? You don’t know how good they are until they are challenged, and they’re certainly challenging Carwin (and, to a lesser extent, Gonzaga, except with him its to find out whether or not he’s improved since his last ride to the top). At some point these guys had to fight each other before any of them reached the title. At this point, there’s the TOP guys, the secondary tier of “potential” guys, the gatekeepers, and the total scrubs. It’s not an outrage when guys get paired up to see whether or not they should be moved up or down in those tiers.

If this doesn’t make sense, it’s because of the cold medication.

"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."

by AJB on Jan 8, 2009 12:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

My only problem with alot of the conjecture about the HW class

is exactly WHO are the top guys? WHO are the mid tier, etc…

Obviously Lesnar and Mir are at the summit…but where does it go from there? Couture and Nog? They weren’t looking too hot the last we saw them and the class is getting Bigger and Younger every day. Who else has proven themselves over guys like Gonzaga…and are still around?

So, then, by definition, who does someone like Gabe need to beat to be considered a/the top contender? Couture or Nog? Does anyone really want to see that? Maybe a rematch between him and Randy?

I don’t see any “path” laid out for someone like Gabe to take him back to the title, for all the commentary that he hasn’t done enough yet. Who has outside of Lesnar and Mir, both who got to the top without really proving that much themselves.

I think it is a natural reflection of the HW division both inside and outside the UFC…there are a small handful of elites and then everyone else feels way below them.

by Razreshat on Jan 8, 2009 1:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Aren’t heavyweight divisions generally that way? I know a couple of guys just starting out, natural HWs, and they have a hell of a time even GETTING a fight. There are so few guys, even at the lowest levels, that everyone is either 3-0 or 0-3. When you have zero or one fight, which guy do you take? The guy who, on experience alone, has a huge advantage? Or the guy who, if you beat him, it’s likely meaningless? And the same thing happens all the way up. Most HW fighters are genetic oddballs, way off at one end of the spectrum of normal human body types (and some are oddballs even in that category – Antonio Silva and Brock Lesnar, for different reasons, are truly odd physical specimens). There just aren’t enough to go around to have a “mediocre” group, so you end up looking for potential, momentum, development, and then throwing them together to see what happens. It’s not ideal, but it’s a necessity of the weight class.

"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."

by AJB on Jan 8, 2009 1:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That’s a great point. On top of that, the so called top tier heavyweights are more dispersed among several promotions that in other classes which the UFC fields. Really it’ mainly the UFC and Affliction, but the point is the same. Face it; the UFC heavyweight division is in flux. There’s no real hierarchy, so you’re naturally going to get guys with few fights and guys with some big losses receive title shots in short order. I don’t have any idea how to rate the guys below Lesnar and Mir. I see the picture clearing up, but it’s going to take some time. There are new guys emerging and old guys that have been dominant facing the back end of their careers. Personally, I find this upheaval interesting, because fights like Gonzaga/Carwin are quite meaningful to the overall landscape of the division.

by Cannon Jacques on Jan 8, 2009 1:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well said.

And with that, you can’t apply the normal metrics for what will “earn” a guy a title shot. At least not what would work for a different weight class.

The UFC has this problem in a couple of weight classes. Both HW and MW have too few standouts and LHW and WW too many. LW is about the only one where there seems to be a pretty solid pecking order developing…and if BJ wins, that might be thrown somewhat out of wack depending on what that win ultimately means.

by Razreshat on Jan 8, 2009 3:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs