An Arm of the Zuffa Machine?
by Luke Thomas on Jan 30, 2009 1:18 AM EST
in MMA News
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PrintI suppose this was inevitable:
It’s no secret that Zuffa employees read message boards, blogs, etc. What is interesting is whether or not more and more UFC employees will start using blogs to manipulate the message they want the public to hear. The organization already has friendly broadsheet media outlets that aren’t willing to push back against them, and then you add on the generally UFC-safe Yahoo Sports coverage team, and what you end up with is a pretty sophisticated strategy to influence both hardcore and casual MMA fans.
If Zuffa employees are taking a more active role in blogs, then it certainly signals a rise in the way MMA blogs will be used as communication outlets for UFC, WEC, etc. and perhaps astroturfing in the future.
I'll keep this brief. If anyone - and I mean anyone - thinks that because a Zuffa employee may or may not be offering inside information here that our coverage is nothing more than a mouthpiece or distribution channel for Zuffa is certifiably bat shit insane wrong. I and others here have certainly been critical of Affliction, but have been thoroughly critical of Zuffa as well to the point where others remind us we are reflexively anti-Zuffa. Zach, you should know better than to even intimate such nonsense. I don't run that kind of site and you know it.
And for the record: I nor others here have any relationship with Zuffa. I'll be honest and say I wish I did. I have beaten the drum for credentialing so at least formal business avenues of communication could be used. But that's fantasy. The reality is that nary the twain shall meet. It's lamentable there is no dialogue, but that's the world we live in. So to think that either unknowingly or knowingly we aren't noticing Zuffa trying to implement some massive plot to virally spread talking points or pro-UFC ideas is just, well, seriously misguided.
So pore over our work. If you decide collectively we have been a willing shill or unsusepecting provider for some grand Zuffa scheme, you're free to read the work of others. We'll be just fine.
UPDATE: More respectful languge included. All apologies.
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I believe i've seen a shill or two in my time
And none of them are editors on this site. I believe you allow them to spew their vomit around here because its free speech and that’s the American way. You also allow me to spew my equally rancorous rhetoric as an anti-ZUFFA voice.
FUCK ZUFFA
War Free Speech
Gimme 1 Round!
War Free Speech, indeed.
Fuck Affliction.
And if the UFC’s hiring, I’m here.
by Derek Suboticki on Jan 30, 2009 1:39 AM EST up reply actions
Sounds like he hit a nerve
Because Arnold didn’t make any accusations. He just described the situation. I mean, its true that the fanpost was “pushed” to the top of the page, right?
Well, yes. But if it is a Zuffa employee, he’s still got a right to post here. And given his eerily correct track record on several other issues, he gets my attention when he posts. That’s newsworthy.
I don’t think Zach’s laying it on thick or being mean, but the intimation is there. This site is not an accomplice to anyone’s mission but our own. If it hit a nerve, it has nothing to do with the accuracy of the charge. I take running this site EXTREMELY serious. Ask anyone on staff. I value the work the staff does here, so even hints of impropriety bother me.
He is saying Zuffa manipulates blogs and websites
That is not a charge aimed particularly at Bloodyelbow. And its totally true. UFC drops the gym announcement and a bunch of other fluffy news items in the immediate wake of the Affliction show. The video blogs are now required content for any cookie cutter site. It is pretty hard to miss.
There is a definite hint in Arnold's article, though.
You can’t deny it. But sure, the general thesis of the article is rock-solid: Zuffa uses blogs as an outlet for news and company-related information. This does have the effect of effectively “changing” ‘the way MMA blogs will be used as communication outlets.’
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Affliction uses blogs as an outlet for news and company-related information.
WAMMA uses blogs as an outlet for news and company-related information.
Strikeforce uses blogs as an outlet for news and company-related information.
M1 uses blogs as an outlet for news and company-related information.
$kala uses blogs as an outlet for news and company-related information.
The thesis is true but trivial.
Good point.
I’d argue directly against it, while (possibly) maintaining your apparent tone, however ;)
I suggest that if WAMMA or Affliction or Strikeforce or M1 did exactly what is being described here in order to advance their own agenda, blog-ville would be cooing about their ingenuity and innovative approach to dictating public opinion.
The foundation of the apparent disdain for mmalogic/whoever and their potential involvement with a given promotion is just hate-the-machine, tear-it-all-down-myan 60’s style nonsense.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
I think that all depends
On whether Strikeforce was blogging about the things they do right. Or making up rumors to sabatoge other MMA organizations. I wouldn’t give them credit for ingenuity if they were spreading rumors. Except the true ones about the Fertitta’s mafia family ties.
Gimme 1 Round!
More so than that
ZUFFA uses the comments section to spread their own agenda via pseudonyms. Aka shills
Gimme 1 Round!
Not normally
If I was I wouldn’t be in the military i’d be at home worried about big brother watching over my shoulder via NSA programs. I’m just a realist. Its an effective marketing strategy and its even more effective on people that laugh it off. You’re a non skeptical consumer. Meat
Gimme 1 Round!
CNBC reported that story. That was newsworthy.
And the UFC put out a press release that wasn’t sent to ANY bloggers. I’m telling you: they have no relationship with us. We got it off of other sites. I got the press release, but only because of my gig on CBS radio. The UFC PR office even warned me never to post anything they send me on anything not WJFK related.
Ok, I believe that. But the content they release, and when they release it, has a manipulative effect, whether its sent out publicly, or it trickles down.
At any rate, the fact that mmalogic, who may have a very specific agenda, can post this kind of information and have it pushed to the top shows the system for this blog, at least, can be manipulated.
That is true with any company, but if you are talking a public company, which Zuffa is not, then it is illegal. Public companies much release things in the press. Trickling them out under pseudonymes would be a crime. As a private company Zuffa can distribute info how ever they want. Building the street cred of a user, in this case mmalogic, and destorying it for short term rumor is going to do what? Everyone was thinking it. Affliction gonna die. What does spreading the rumor do for Zuffa in the long term? It is going to make there sponser nervous enough to back out? Is it going to make there fighters nervous? I mean more nervous then seeing an empty arena on fsn? More nervous then the super low ppv numbers? more nervous then the gate:payroll ratio? No, not really.
By the time we know a sound estimate of them this thing will probably be sorted out one way or another.
Did you know we are in high demand, Laura?
by Eugene Schelfaut on Jan 30, 2009 2:42 AM EST up reply actions
Imma post on FightO
to Zack about his wager on the PPV numbers right now – forgot to do that
Gimme 1 Round!
He was betting
That Affliction would only do 20K PPV buys. It wasn’t a wager against anybody but that was his estimate. I told him he was fuckin nuts minumum 60K with a likely amount 75 to 85K
Gimme 1 Round!
I have a feeling it did more though
I think they may have really broken 100K this time
Gimme 1 Round!
I definately feel 200K is probably too high
unless there are unforeseen factors such as more people staying home and buying PPV’s across the board to avoid heavy bar tabs, etc…
145K i think is high side and low end is 110K
Gimme 1 Round!
No evidence at all to support that
just a feeling based on how many people bought the actually AFFORDABLE upper deck tickets and Attencio having to open up more cheap seats.
Nobody was gonna buy those insane 500 dollar 10th row seats.
Gimme 1 Round!
The fact that UFC 93 did so well suggests to me that this one could have done good numbers. I think 120-150 makes sense. But really, who knows.
by Michael Rome on Jan 30, 2009 3:11 AM EST up reply actions
According to robnashville, Affliction people are whispering north-of-200k numbers. So take that for what it is worth I guess.
Zack is an ass and explained why he himself dislikes Affliction and didn’t give it any positive press.
He even went as far as saying that Fedor vs Arlovski didn’t intrigue him at all, but, I THOUGHT it was a bit quick to be putting out that type of news in your front page. I mean, if mmalogic was wrong, this site would get hell.
Hope it all clears up soon.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jan 30, 2009 4:37 AM EST up reply actions
I work for Zuffa
whoops, shouldn’t have let that out. Oh man….Dana is going to berate me on his next vlog.
I’m actually the computer program “Keyboard Warrior 2.0”. I was designed to pass a turning test and be a UFC nut-hugger.
turing test. If you are going to make a ref to AI theory then you need to spell it right so people can look it up. I have a degree in the stuff so I knew what you were trying to say, but failed to.
Any scientist as truly mad as he was deserves respect – War Tesla Death Ray!
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jan 30, 2009 1:52 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Very true. But no intrest in a grad degree for me. I hated school. But AI has something for everyone. You can pretty much say all areas of study relate to AI. And it is interesting you bring up the turing test on an MMA website. I am fairly certain I could create an auto poster that could fool some people on sherdog into thinking it was a real person. All it would have to do is post WAR this or WAR that based on topics. Maybe throw in a few Rickson by armbar comments.
I love that you, of all people, are correcting someone’s spelling.
Also, be more of a geek.
"BJ on the BE" - Kierkegaard
as has been noted on the rumor: affliction is done...
post
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 30, 2009 1:38 AM EST up reply actions
I’m sure Dana White is working to clone Goebbels right now to have him run a mass propaganda machine for Zuffa.
/sarcasm
I bet they do read and maybe even post, but I doubt any kind of information manipulation will result in much more appreciation for the brand or sport, most fans know the UFC puts on good shows and it’s an undenial fact and thus unworthy of effort to manipulate.
Even a campaign of disinformation goes against the goals of empowering the Zuffa brand and obscuring the other brands as even disinformation brings to attention those you wish to obscure.
Overall I think this is a large dose of paranoia, as the efforts and resources far outweigh the benefits, the Zuffa brand speaks for itself and most fans know they put on kick ass show and that they are #1 at the moment.
Done with Fight Opinion
The mere fact that Arnold has a post up speculating on the employers of someone else’s blog’s commenters sums up perfectly why I rarely bother with Fight Opinion anymore. It’s a bunch of conspiracy theories (like this one), half-baked accusations of impropriety (“Writer X dared to say UFC 92 was good, therefore he is on the Zuffa payroll” etc.), and a nauseating level of pro wrestling geekiness (“Dana White ate soup for lunch today! Just like Vince McMahon did the day before Wrestlemania 11!!!”). Sometimes I’ll click on there if I want a good laugh, but that’s about it these days.
BLOODY ELBOW IS PEOPLE!!!!
Gimme 1 Round!
by skwirrl on Jan 30, 2009 2:17 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
Awesome.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Jan 30, 2009 2:19 AM EST up reply actions
If Zuffa want to use a forum or a blog as an outlet to influence opinions, what is wrong with that? For instance Lindland’s release from UFC. Mostly every hardcore out there based this on him being a threat to their golden goose rich franklin and him not have the look of a champion rather than accept that he fucking broke the rules by wearing a unapproved sponsor
by The Bronzeville Bully on Jan 30, 2009 2:31 AM EST reply actions
Here is the audio from the Tom Atencio interview with Hardcore Sports Radio.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
Other industries use the technique. Basically all the media news and opinion for MMA come from message boards so I would say this industry is highly susceptible to such a ploy.
Whether it’s happening, who knows it’s all speculation? But the Lindland example above shows how powerful this technique can be for any those who think it’s just silly.
To borrow a movie quote
Falco: You really think people are going to be seduced by that?
Gracchus: I think he knows what Rome is. Rome is the mob. Conjure magic for them and they’ll be distracted.
This describes the casual MMA fan – if the mob says it and likes it… Its a self fulfilling prophecy
Gimme 1 Round!
With all due respect, how can you reconcile the indignation of this post with your relationship to the UWC?
Um, he discloses that relationship at every opportunity?
by Derek Suboticki on Jan 30, 2009 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly..
saying “Disclosure: I am an employee of the UWC…” is a lot different from people insinuating that you are a shill for a company…etc
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 30, 2009 10:28 PM EST up reply actions
The prize for that was a ban.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Jan 30, 2009 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
Did I blink and this place turn into 4 Chan?
by Sam Cupitt on Jan 30, 2009 3:52 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
A person under the name “Rapist-Bill” trolling with a bunch of “you gonna get raped” pictures last night. Internet trolls are the lowest form of life.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jan 30, 2009 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
What is going on?
Why are you spamming the thread? Not that I don’t think some of the photos are funny….
In all seriousness
Luke – I think you slightly overreacted to the post on FightOpinion. The post wasn’t really aimed at BE. Just speculating whether or not mmalogic is a Zuffa employee. Whether he is or he isn’t – so what? Breaking news is breaking news.
BE’s a great blog. In my humble opinion – it’s the best there is.
Ah, the bittersweet taste of PARANOIA!
So, now if you aren’t a UFC basher, you are obviously on their payroll. Someone please show me where to stand in line for my check.
Zach Arnold
This is the guy who was the original blogger to keep his board “intelligent” and non-Sherdog-like. That is, until you criticize someone who he is friendly with. Like Josh Barnett. If you criticize his friends, then his rules no longer apply. Not only did he rebuke me for criticizing his homeboy, he also opened up the floodgate for any Sherdog poster to talk shit and call names. That’s when I quit posting there.
Zach is a hypocrite who favors his friends and smite his enemies.
Barnett was the turning point for me, too. Zach spent months on end railing that the mainstream media wasn’t tough enough about steroids in MMA. … then turned right around and kissed Barnett’s ass and never brought up steroids once. I could deal with the site’s other quirks, but the raging hypocrcisy was too much.
where's mmalogic?
The man at the center of this storm has been curiously quiet. Perhaps suspiciously quiet. I think we’d all like to hear what he has to say. It’d be nice if he could clarify his connection, if any, to Zuffa. If the Bloody Elbow editors are so concerned about the appearance of impropriety (and I’m certainly not suggesting any exists), can they shed further light on the situation? Maybe, Luke, a word with mmalogic is in order. After all, if you’re going to rely on user contributions to grow the blog, you might want to vet the background of someone who you regularly push to the top. There’s a big difference between what’s said in the peanut gallery here and what the editorial staff deems worthy of equal footing with their MMA coverage.
When there’s smoke, there’s fire. MMAlogic didn’t say anything we didn’t already suspect. I will be surprised if Affliction comes out with a third event even though they’re contractually obligated to do so for some fighters. You can’t prove a rumor if the spokesperson comes out and deny it. He’ll deny it until the day the event goes down in flames. Isn’t that how it always work?
Dana made sure we would never hear from him again.
:)
Really though, it would be interesting to hear, but nothing is going to get him out of that shite whole hes in now. I mean Zach basically made him an internet outlaw.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jan 30, 2009 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
Oh noes!!
I made sum1 mad on teh internetz!!!
Zach is a fucking tool. What shit hole is my man logic in?
by Derek Suboticki on Jan 30, 2009 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not understanding the big deal...
Zuffa’s gag orders are no joke and they enforce the hell out of them… for their employees they take them very seriously.
I highly doubt mmalogic is an employee of Zuffa, I don’t think he’d risk his job to blog on an internet site and risk getting caught and subsequently fired. I haven’t been posting on here long, but I’ve enjoyed what Mr. Logic has to say… but I wouldn’t throw him under the bus so to speak. Zuffa doesn’t give the fighters much trouble w/ keeping hush hush, but their in house office employees…. wheww… they leak anything and it could be utter disaster for them legally and professionally.
Maybe he knows a fighter within Affliction that dropped a nugget of wisdom? I know my cousin’s husband does that from time to time and then say “I shouldn’t have said that”… lol.
You're missing the point entirely
The speculation isn’t that mmalogic is a Zuffa employee who happens to post on here, it’s that mmalogic is a Zuffa employee whose job is specifically to post on here (and other sites) to influence opinion. If that’s true, there would obviously be no gag order on him.
Thank you
For saying what needed to be said.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
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