Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Win or Lose, Boston Celtics' New Big 3 Era A Success

Georges St. Pierre: B.J. Penn's Enormous Hurdle

Thumbnail_crop_php_medium

There's no need for me to further discuss the significance of this weekend's welterweight championship bout.  The fight is going to be huge, and it has the potential to live up to the substantial hype supporting it.  I would rather get into speculation as to who will win and how they will do so.  B.J. Penn shares some thoughts on the issue with MMA Weekly:

"To all my fans, Georges St. Pierre's No. 2 and to all Georges St. Pierre's fans I'm No. 2.  They like us both, but they know who they're going for that night," Penn commented.  "This is the kind of fight you hope for your entire life.  This is definitely the pinnacle of my career."

...

"It's not a battle of skill, it's a battle of will," said Penn.  "He's going to find out, and I'm going to find out, and we're going to find out pretty quick that I'm more skilled than he is, I'm faster than he is, but he's going to try to grind this thing out and I'm going to be there right in his face the whole time.

Certainly, Penn is an amazingly skilled fighter who should never be counted out.  However, GSP is the favorite and for good reason.  Randy Couture explains why he believes the current welterweight champion will prevail:

"B.J. is one of the most talented guys that I've ever been around. He has amazing balance and flexibility. He's got naturally heavy hands. His submission skills are top notch," commented Couture. "But I still think we've seen him at 155 fight the best that he has. Although he beat Matt Hughes back in the day at 170, it was more of a style match-up than anything. Conditioning, the body, mindset, everything, it was the best it's ever been at 155."

Penn has been a dominating force in the lightweight division, but has a history of wanting to challenge himself in higher weight classes. Couture believes Georges St. Pierre will be too much for the Hawaiian fighter.

"I just don't see it going well for (Penn) going up to 170, dealing with a guy like Georges who is cutting down a good 15 pounds, probably more, to make the 170-pound limit, who is as dynamic and has the skill sets that Georges has," stated the 44-year-old fighter affectionately know as "Captain America."

The fact that B.J. Penn can move up one or more weight classes and be competitive against the best in the world is a testament to his own skill.  But as Couture stated, Penn's frame is best suited for lightweight.  Is it probable that Penn would beat most of the other UFC welterweights?  I would say without a doubt.  GSP is a much different animal than most of his counterparts in the division.  His training session  with Rashad Evans on UFC:  Primetime serves as visual evidence of St. Pierre's size advantage over smaller welterweights like Penn.  While size doesn't tell the whole story, it can be a daunting challenge to overcome.  GSP has the build to keep Penn at a distance for an extended period of time and then muscle him around when the fighting gets close.

Conditioning is a question mark for Penn while this aspect of MMA is one of St. Pierre's strong suits.  The longer the bout goes, the more likely the bigger GSP will be able to wear down his smaller competitor.  St. Pierre has the wrestling skills to make the fight a long grind.  There's also no doubt that St. Pierre can perform at a high level for a full five rounds.  Can Penn do the same?  We may find out.

If Penn can land some hard shots early, he can overcome the force that is GSP.  Many still question GSP's mental toughness and chin as a result of his loss to Matt Serra.  Personally, I don't believe either is much of an issue, but those are still questions that are often cited when a case is made against St. Pierre.  That aside, there's little question that Penn possesses formidable knockout power, and that's not something to minimize, especially when coupled with Penn's excellent boxing. It's also important that one not forget about the lightweight champion's impressive jiu-jitsu credentials.  If anyone can submit GSP, it's Penn.  However, I don't see it as likely unless Penn is able to soften his foe up with strikes first.  As Joe Rogan would say:  "GSP is no joke on the ground."  He's become quite adept at keeping himself out of fight ending submissions.

Those are my thoughts.  I'm well aware that others have very different takes.  One Bloody Elbow staffer is even willing to risk downing a bottle of maple syrup to show support for one, B.J. Penn.  Either way, it should be a closely contested rematch full of the intrigue that great MMA fights possess.

Photo via Sherdog

Comment 28 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

I don’t think BJ’s hands are as hard as some people aregoing on about. Sure he can hit hard, but he’s no Thiago Alves. You can’t fight GSP and think a hard punch is going to win you the fight.

People act like they know GSP, but we haven’t seen him fight an opponent that presented a challenge in a while. I mean, he’s ran through everyone. He didn’t exactly DESTROY Fitch, but Fitch never had GSP in trouble. The most anyone can really say for Fitch is “he did defend a couple of takedowns”…thats not saying much at all.

GSP will win this fight badly I think. I think BJ could end up embarrassed, and a lot of people will be left wondering what happened to the megafight that became a beatdown.

Or I could be wrong…and I would be happy if I was, but everything is telling me that this is how it will go.

by Kaleb Kelchner on Jan 29, 2009 10:44 PM EST reply actions  

Actually Serra knocked out GSP .. so it can be done … and BJ is light years ahead of Serra … and if he was conditioned better he should have easily beat GSP there first fight.. So lets just see how good BJ’s cardio is..because most of his losses were do to cardio…IF bj slacked at all I give it to GSP but if he condiotioned like they say..Its gonna be an awesome fight!!

by cgriffiths on Jan 29, 2009 10:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Here we go with the Serra thing…

*rolls eyes

Thats all BJ has hope for. A fluke win where he gets one punch in and GSP starts slipping all over the place. It will not happen my friend.

:P Teh interwebz, serious business…

by xFenixKnightx on Jan 29, 2009 11:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Really?

Last times I checked, a number of outcomes are possible. BJ has enough skill to get the win beyond fluke means, including a win by submission or ground n’ pound. Granted these outcomes are not probable, but they are possible. BJ Penn is not some scrub fighter and GSP is not the best at every skillset in this fight..

by missmanners on Jan 29, 2009 11:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Then again, this is MMA and anything can happen.

Liek eye-pokes…

by xFenixKnightx on Jan 29, 2009 11:05 PM EST up reply actions  

ha ha

anything can happen, couture over gonzaga, mir over nog, evans over chuck, underdogs can have theri day

by missmanners on Jan 29, 2009 11:07 PM EST up reply actions  

BJ is way more naturally gifted than GSP .. GSP is an awesome athlete and very well rounded I give him that..And I am also a huge GSP fan too .. but a well conditioned BJ poses alot more threat than than any other senerio ..Just watch there last fights first round and times it by 5 … GSP is in much more need of a lucky shot than BJ is..

by cgriffiths on Jan 29, 2009 11:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, imagine rounds 2 and 3 and times it by 5…

Please…GSP fights nothing like he did when they first fought, neither does BJ. Lets quit referring back to a fight that happened so long ago, so much more has happened since then.

by Kaleb Kelchner on Jan 29, 2009 11:14 PM EST up reply actions  

then you need to agree that it can easilygo either way..both fighters have the talent to beat anyone remotely close to there size..and if even the elusive Machida wanted nothing to do with exchanging with a Chubby Bj and just clinched him ..then GSP will respect an inshape BJs hands …and ground ..but your right in the fact that both fighters are much bettter ..but BJs biggest thing was to take these fights more seriously and train harder…

by cgriffiths on Jan 29, 2009 11:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Those “natural gifts” were absent in their first fight unless you want to count the first round where BJ did indeed poke GSP’s eye. If I knew how to make gifs I’d do one of it. Watch it, they even do a replay where Rogan points it out. And I dont understand these phrases everyone uses…

“a well prepared BJ Penn”
“a motivated BJ Penn”
“an in shape BJ Penn”
“a well conditioned BJ Penn”
“a hungry BJ Penn”

He’s a fighter, he’s a proffesional, he SHOULD be well conditioned and ready at all times and in all fights. To me, thats not even a compliment. That just sais he lacks discipline. Anyway I like BJ but at Lightweight, I just dont see why anyone would think he has a chance against someone who a) already beat him, b) is 10x better than he was last time they fought, and c) has been at Welterweight getting stronger and bigger while BJ is just coming back up.

He should have taken a tune up fight b4 this ego project of his. GSP had a WAR with Fitch and BJ didnt even let him have his full moment after he won. Big time disrespect IMO. Just for your vanity project.

by xFenixKnightx on Jan 29, 2009 11:27 PM EST up reply actions  

If Fitch couldn’t “Serra” GSP in 5 rounds, I don’t think anyone is going to do that again for a long time.

Let’s quit looking in the past, both fighters are completely different…lets look at it that way, in the present.

by Kaleb Kelchner on Jan 29, 2009 11:11 PM EST up reply actions  

what?

When has Fitch’s standup been a strong-point? In his fights leading up to GSP, he was grinding out decisions. As soon as he couldn’t get the takedown, his heart must have dropped into his stomach.

by missmanners on Jan 29, 2009 11:17 PM EST up reply actions  

While Fitch is certainly a grinder and not particularly known for his knock out power (rather for his well-roundedness), let’s not pretend that Fitch came into that fight expecting to take GSP down at will (hell, it’s likely that he expected to have most of his takedown attempts stuffed).

by Estrada on Jan 29, 2009 11:19 PM EST up reply actions  

My point is...

That Fitch’s chance of getting a “serra” victory as mentioned above, were not that great, with his average standup.

by missmanners on Jan 29, 2009 11:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree with that statement.

Contributing writer for MMA-Analyst.com

by Joe Schmitt on Jan 29, 2009 11:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree with that statement to, but let me ask you this…

When was Serra ever known for HIS hands? lol

by Kaleb Kelchner on Jan 29, 2009 11:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Fitch isn’t half the boxer that BJ is. To say BJ has no chance in the stand up department is completely asinine. BJ has arguable the best boxing in MMA.

And eye pokes? C’mon. Watch the replay again. BJ clearly punches GSP square in the eye. Everyone wants to talk about the eye poke and the “fluke” uppercut that grazed GSP’s nose. Why don’t you look at the rest of that round and watch BJ consistently counter GSP’s strikes with a counter left hook, over and over again? BJ clearly beats Georges to the punch on almost every occasion.

They are two completely different fighters this time around, I will agree with you there. It’s going to be an interesting fight and I can see a situation where either fighter wins.

Contributing writer for MMA-Analyst.com

by Joe Schmitt on Jan 29, 2009 11:20 PM EST up reply actions  

LOL at this. GSP was clearly poked in the eye with Penn’s thumb. You can repeatedly see BJ striking this way throughout the fight. GSP had a cut on the inside of his eyelid.

Penn won Rd 1 in the striking department, but never staggered GSP, never was close to dropping or finishing GSP, and this was all while GSP was half blind.

by Hardcharger on Jan 30, 2009 9:51 AM EST up reply actions  

BJ Fan ...

I am by far one of the biggest BJ fans around and always have been…And this is most def gonna be his biggest test…It is going to be hard for either fighter to take eachother out..with that said I feel that the winner is gonna be the one who dominates the first two rounds….And if BJ wants to win he HAS to have control of the first three for sure ..because in the last two rounds if it makes it that far will most likely be GSP trying to hold him down to grind out a win..So if BJ has enough to go hard the first three rounds he wins ..If he can only go 2 I give it to GSP…I also feel if its over in the first 3 it will be BJ on top…I dont think alot of people know that BJ fought Machida and took him the distance..which is a lot bigger size differance than BJ – GSP so i dont think BJ will get overwhelmed by GSP..those are my thoughts

by cgriffiths on Jan 29, 2009 10:54 PM EST reply actions  

Stylistically speaking, this is an excellent cursory write-up. If BJ can’t do it in the first round, he won’t be able to do it (MY opinion).

Thanks Cannon

I'm just a dude who's trying to put it together.

by mma_dude on Jan 29, 2009 11:20 PM EST reply actions  

Cursory work is my specialty, sir.

by Cannon Jacques on Jan 29, 2009 11:55 PM EST up reply actions  

There is nothing more superficial than just following the hype train.

Thank you for not.

I'm just a dude who's trying to put it together.

by mma_dude on Jan 30, 2009 12:13 AM EST up reply actions  

My Peace on this fight

I’ll say that I am a BJ fan. However, I do think that he is an underdog in this fight, with my main concerns being the size difference and cardio concerns, as in how will BJ continue to get to his feet from repeated takedowns from GSP who will outweigh him by 10-15 lbs. on the night of the fight.
With that said, I think it’s difficult to gauge how much improvement has taken place in Penn’s fighting abilities his last three fights. He toyed with Jens, and took his time taking apart Joe Daddy after the initial blitz. As for Shrek, BJ was content to stand with him, his one takedown attempt aside, and pick him apart before going with the flying knee. In these three fights, post “attitude, training change” we have not seen BJ with his back against the wall or in any real trouble. He also has not had to take any chances to win these three fight.
I guess what I am trying to say is that we all know how much GSP has evolved in his fights, whereas Penn has largely not had to show anything new, cardio in the 4th and 5th, takedown defense, etc.
If Penn has added to his game, developed his groundgame further, added more subs, etc., GSP is the fighter that will bring these out or show that Penn has not evolved in his technique since their first fight, and if that is the case, Penn will lose.
Yes GSP went to war with Fitch. It is not Penn’s fault that he did not have to step out of his comfort zone or show us improvements to beat his last three opponents. Penn doesn’t take a whole lot of chances in these fights.

Saturday will answer a lot of questions. Is Penn talk, or will fighting GSP bring out the “new improved” Penn, one who can avoid his takedowns and not gas, with maybe a few new wrinkles in his striking and sub game to boot.

by missmanners on Jan 29, 2009 11:40 PM EST reply actions  

I Know Everyone Has Their Opinions...

But I’m highly discouraged by the constant disrespect that BJ is getting… I know that BJ is talkin a lot of shit to hype the fight, and get in Georges head… And he may be serious also, but the fight is between him and Georges… People acting as if the first fight wasn’t close are delusional… BJ is one of the most dynamic fighters in the history of the sport, and one of the best characters… He has constantly striven to fight the best in the world, and even though he let his talent carry most of the weight, he knows that against an animal such as GSP he has to bring it all together.

GSP is great… but in all honesty BJ is the greatest win on his resume, and is STILL the BIGGEST test in his career as well purely based on BJ’s strengths. This fight can go either way, and I think both have a lot to prove… BJ can be beaten, but GSP has two losses to individuals Penn has beaten, and is better at in most categories… And BARELY squeaked out a decision in the last fight.

by Loot on Jan 30, 2009 2:20 AM EST reply actions  

BJ's Resume

No offense intended but would you really say that BJ’s record is particularly impressive? I don’t think so personally. Who on BJ’s record is actually all that impressive- or at least far superior to the competition that GSP has faced. GSP’s record is generally made up of Top 5 or at least Top 10 competitors and he generally fought them when they were relevant to their divisions. And, with three exceptions, he made them all look like amateurs. At best their records are pretty equal in terms of competition although I’d argue that GSP’s had the more difficult road.

I’m also baffled by the concept that BJ is some sort of knockout machine on his feet. I count one true KO (Caol Uno- almost 8 years ago). I’m not saying he’s not dangerous or highly skilled on his feet but there’s a big difference between messing up people’s faces vs putting them to sleep on their feet. To cite GSP’s one TKO loss against Serra and suggest he’s got a questionable chin? Come on. He wasn’t even hit on the chin, it was behind the ear, it doesn’t matter what your facial structure or genetics are. That spot on the human head, if hit hard enough, will f*ck up anybody.

Yes George has great wrestling, conditioning, and a size advantage. But the rest of his game is top level as well. BJ is of course technically gifted and very flexible. These two fighters are more equal than people seem to think. Their strengths and weaknesses seem to cancel each other out. I think it’ll be a lot more of a 50/50 battle personally.

by Harrymanback1 on Jan 30, 2009 11:47 AM EST up reply actions  

He did beat Machida. The decision went against him, but he won that fight.

Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

by Richard Wade on Jan 30, 2009 5:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Randy Couture

believes that size matters because he got trounced by Brock Lesnar. He’s just stroking his own ego. Size matter but so does skill. Sorry Randy, you’re just not as good when going up against the Cock.

by cyph on Jan 30, 2009 11:21 AM EST reply actions  

Maybe...

but I still think his argument is valid. BJ Penn can overcome the size discrepancy, but it’s going to be tough. GSP isn’t just big for a welterweight, he’s the most skilled welterweight I can think of. BJ is probably the most skilled lightweight, and it’s helpful that he doesn’t have to contend with guys much larger than he is as a lightweight.

by Cannon Jacques on Jan 30, 2009 11:33 AM EST up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

"I'm working on the intricacies of details of maneuvers that he still doesn't even know the names of." - Frank Mir

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Wario_small
BECW3 UFC 146 Live Post
Me_2_small
Farewell Frank Mir
Lebowski_excited_grin_small
A Paean to the Korean Zombie, Chan Sung Jung: My New Favorite Fighter
Elty_small
What Every MMA Fan Should Remember
Bv_small
The Top-250 of 2012: BV Wants YOU!

Recent FanPosts

Madmen_icon_small
Dan Hardy: The Outlaw (Short documentary film)
Ck1_small
Glory world series livepost
74471_small
UFC 146 'Primetime' video for 'Dos Santos vs Mir' on FX (Final Episode)
Wario_small
Bellator Prelims Live Thread
Mkiis_small
K-1 Rising 2012 Now Offered For Free
Chilli_pickle_283g_hot_small
Caption Contest IV (UPDATE: Vote Now!)

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

MMA Rankings

USA Today / SB Nation Consensus MMA Rankings