Affliction MMA Events and Clothing Revenue
Adam Swift makes the case that Affliction Entertainment is an unconventional marketing effort, and profits/losses generated from live events don't tell the whole story. Notable quote:
Affliction is after all a t-shirt company at the end of day, as Dana White loves to remind everyone, and ultimately any money they make on these MMA events is icing on the cake to the brand building they are accomplishing. As a private company we don’t have much evidence as to how briskly sales are moving, but a recent BusinessWeek feature provides some insight.
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This isn’t exactly a groundbreaking approach. Red Bull has taken a similar path in NASCAR. After spending several years as a sponsor of events, the company chose to make the leap into team ownership. In the expensive world of Sprint Cup Racing it is very unlikely that the team turns a profit, but Red Bull doesn’t sit around wringing its hands about its multi-million dollar "losses." Instead it watches its energy drink sales rise and is satisfied knowing that ownership of the racing team gives it a potential upside and possibility of recouping its investment that other traditional advertising and marketing expenditures simply don’t offer.
It’s essentially the difference between renting and owning your own home. Both accomplish the goal of having a roof over your head, but ownership allows you to simultaneously build equity.
So while Affliction may ultimately decide that its money is better spent outside of live event promotion, that decision will likely not rest entirely on the financial bottom line of the events themselves, but rather their contribution to the company’s overall finances, i.e. its clothing line.
Swift makes a valid point, but what is the correlation between increased clothing sales and Affliction events? Without knowing the strength of the connection, or at least having a decent estimate as to the relationship, it is, in fact, impossible for anyone on the outside to declare Affliction's marketing campaign via fight promotion a success. One can't very well say that all sales to MMA fans are a result of the promotional venture since Affliction apparel was popular before the entertainment company's inception. Conversely, I can't say that these efforts haven't yielded any increased demand for clothing. I'm just skeptical in regard to marketing efficiency, and will remain so until I see some objective numerical analysis derived from reliable revenue and cost figures.
Furthermore, owning a home instead of renting one isn't all that comparable to Affliction achieving marketing objectives through fight promotion. A home owner is trying to build equity. Is Affliction building equity? What is Affliction Entertainment worth? Do they possess hard assets of value? Have they built a valuable infrastructure? The company has a meager video library. If their fighter contracts are transferable ( a big if), would anyone want them? Those are some pretty rich deals in the fighters' favors.
Assume for a minute that Affliction does have something(s) of value to sale. Who's in a position to buy any of it? I'm sure Zuffa could, but they might be the only bidder. That certainly wouldn't be a market favorable to Affliction. I won't even get into the fact that the U.S. tax code favors home ownership over renting which diminishes the value of the analogy in question even further.
My opinion is that Atencio and company believed that they could ride the perceived popularity of MMA, and build a promotion competitive to the UFC. I say "perceived popularity," because, for better or worse, many fans equate MMA with the UFC. The brand is just that strong. Of course, making money through clothing affords Affliction more room to lose money than a promotion trying to make it through conventional revenue streams only. It's quite a convoluted scenario to analyze, but I reject the notion that Affliction Entertainment is a stroke of marketing genius, and money lost through fight promotion is of little importance. In the end, many profitable businesses have been severely damaged, because they strayed too far from what they do best.
I certainly don't wish Affliction ill. I very much enjoyed Day of Reckoning. However, reality dictates that I question their ability to maintain Affliction Entertainment. I'm just not convinced that all is well.
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Listen: if it were true they could recoup all costs and these were great ads, they would be running all the time.
Realistically, Affliction is like a novelty act with 2 one off shows a year or so, maybe 3. They need to get their losses down by renegotiating. They will never compete with the UFC, but if they get some funding and structure right they can run 3 fun shows a year and provide us with enough entertainment.
Also, this analysis is problematic because it does not consider the opportunity costs. Yes, sales go up when they do their shows. I bet they used to go up a lot when UFC main eventers wore Affliction. Everything is comparative.
What are you hearing in regards to PPV numbers? Schaefer makes it sound like they might surprise some people.
Schaefer also said he thinks they might come close to recouping their expenses. Schaefer is not a reliable source.
by Michaelthebox on Jan 28, 2009 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
Keyword here is “thinks”.
:)
That would be amazing though if true.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jan 28, 2009 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
The thing is that their breakeven for the first event was considered to be 250k buys. While we don’t know the cost structure for this event, we can figure it is at least somewhat comparable. They did not sell anywhere near 250k buys, and didn’t Meltzer say that the positive tracking was 120k buys? They’re NOT coming anywhere near recouping their expenses, so Schaefer is lying through his teeth.
120k buys gives them a lot more hope for the future, but they still have a ways to go.
by Michaelthebox on Jan 28, 2009 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
Or just doesn’t know because he doesn’t have to worry about it, YET.
:)
Agreed.
Most people predicted 50-80K buys for Affliction 2, so to double peoples estimates in this economy for a promotion with no TV deal and while being attacked by UFC loyalists is pretty darn impressive.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jan 28, 2009 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
What I really don’t understand is that most of the anecdotal evidence I’ve heard reflected low casual interest in the card, lower than in the first card. I’m really curious as to where 120k buys came from. Maybe it just reflect an overall growth in the size of the hardcore fanbase over the last half year.
by Michaelthebox on Jan 28, 2009 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
Honestly, the first show did near 100, and Arlovski is a much more marketable name in the main event than Tim Sylvia. I guessed 100 due to the lower interest feel, and thought Arlovski would make up for it.
People are buying fights on Saturday nights now in large numbers.
by Michael Rome on Jan 28, 2009 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
Of course, that begs the question of how they’ll do with a future main event of Fedor/Barnett.
by Michaelthebox on Jan 28, 2009 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
I think they made Fedor an attraction with their last two events. Anyone he fights is going to bring out the hardcore fans and nab a few casuals. I’d expect having Fedor on the card alone will bring them in the vicinity 100k in buys.
Treading water really isn’t an option at this point.
by Michaelthebox on Jan 28, 2009 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
Promotion and advertising were much worse for this event, basically they waited til the week of to do anything.
They did the same thing last time too. People have forgotten, but everyone was saying the exact same things until the week of the show.
The only time promotion really matters at all is the 7-10 days before the event. Promoting weeks and months out is pretty much burning money unless it’s something like 24/7.
by Michael Rome on Jan 28, 2009 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed and have been saying this for a while.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jan 28, 2009 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
120,000.
I thought it would do 100, and I did predict that in a thread around here. The recession is actually boosting MMA numbers. Rich-Dan doing near 300 is pretty nuts for a Europe show.
by Michael Rome on Jan 28, 2009 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed. All the UFC shows have been getting a huge boost lately.
by Michaelthebox on Jan 28, 2009 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
Surely there are many ways to interpret the numbers… but lets say Banned settled at 100k buys and DoR at 125,000. You’d think Affliction defying the industry expectations, and growing their audience from the first to second show would come as a huge positive for them in terms of building an attractive package for investors.
Is that improvement enough to offset the steep costs down the road? Can they fix the cost structure, so profitability can be achieved more easily? I think those are two of the bigger questions.
by Cannon Jacques on Jan 28, 2009 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
If you give DOR had a 25k increase in buys over Banned, it also had a gate which was $600K less.
25 thousand buys at $45 each = $1,125,000.
If the cable provider gets half of that, you are left with $562,500.
So, the increase in buys does not cover the decrease in gate.
Did you know we are in high demand, Laura?
by Eugene Schelfaut on Jan 28, 2009 5:55 PM EST up reply actions
Yes it would…
If they can show an uptrend then that will look good.
The Math can be spun in way where you can illustrate: with this trend and less than 40m more in funding you have a billion dollar business on your hands.
Thats what I was getting at. Despite stumbling at the gate for the 2nd show, if they can say they’re building a following on PPV, it bodes well for their “pitch”, so to speak.
This is kind of a tangent, but HBO seemed to put a lot of money into promoting Jones vs. Calzaghe, and it ended up doing a relatively pitiful PPV number of 225k or something. Most people seem to agree that Affliction doing six figure buyrates with little to no national media presence is something of a surprise. I suspect the potential Affliction has shown as a PPV product early on could prove more important to their future than some realize.
Yes… If this was 18 months ago funding would be a slam dunk for affliction.
I can’t even say it would be impossible now…
UFC’s numbers have been going in the opposite direction of most businesses since the recession… and the numbers that can be used from the past 90 days is gold.
This ironically is the best thing that could of ever happened for Affliction (even more so than any possible bump in their own ppv sales). Let’s see if they can capitalize on it.
To be fair that’s something that’s affecting the UFC too. Didn’t 91 and 92 have about 1/3 of their crowds papered and possibly more “purchased”?
However, not sure how much of the Affliction gate was actually bought by fans and how much was “purchased”.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
Just saying
…you could point to it as an “industry wide” issue, due to the economy or whatnot, in your pitch and point to the industry juggernaut to back it up.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
Hmmm....
I think Rome has a point, but I would be more inclined to believe that Affliction isn’t getting the increased sales that they are desiring. Hearing Atencio’s post-fight remarks, etc… it sure doesn’t sound like the promotion will be around much longer due to the fact that it’s likely sinking their ship. Pouring more money into the promotion than they are producing sales.
It should also be noted that while the Red Bull strategy works, Red Bull has done some very fantastic things besides NASCAR as a tool. They have basically thrown their drinks into the bar scene and made them a part of “staple” alcoholic beverages like Jaeger bombs and Bazooka Joe’s. That alone has probably tripled their business. Affliction has one demographic really.
Also, has anyone actually thought about what happens if Affliction’s promotion dies? Will the UFC allow them back into the sponsorship mix? If not, I think they are in for a rude awakening. Do they really sell that many t-shirts at “The BUCKLE”?
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Jan 28, 2009 5:07 PM EST up reply actions
As for the Property analogy
I don’t think Swift meant to take it that far. I think all he was trying to get at was simply the fact that rather than sponsoring other events, Affliction decided to produce and control their own events.
A key question that has yet to be answered is how separate is Affliction Entertainment from the t-shirt business itself. Is the aim really for marketing for the t-shirt business or are they really trying to compete with the UFC.
All signs have pointed towards their intention to really compete. At this point they are fighting a losing battle.
If the ploy is to be a marketing tool – I would likely deem it a failure because of exactly what Rome pointed out above – opportunity cost. With the money they spend on their own events – Affliction could likely be a major sponsor in the UFC and get much more exposure than they are currently getting (which in my mind is generally limited to the ‘hardcore’ MMA fan). Anyone who bought a Affliction Entertainment PPV has probably already made their mind up as to whether or not they buy Affliction T-shirts and they are already a loyal customer (if not they never will be).
They would gain far more exposure from advertising on UFC on Spike events. Or they would sign a crappy contract like they one Elite XC signed with CBS to give them maximum exposure but no method of making a profit (remembering the pitiful 500K EXC received for the CBS event makes me cringe).
The analogy between Affliction and home ownership rested on the notion that equity could be built by running a promotion. I’m not sure any value aside from marketing is being captured.
I’m inclined to believe that marketing through conventional advertising on the back of an established MMA promotion would be more efficient. You could analyze this thing all day in a number of different ways.
by Cannon Jacques on Jan 28, 2009 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
The Red Bull comparison is more apt than people realize. Forget the NASCAR effort (which probably costs $20 million or so), they own TWO Formula One teams. We’re talking a combined annual budget of $570,000,000.
The problem I have with the analogy is that the race teams clearly have value in regard to physical assets and infrastructure.
by Cannon Jacques on Jan 28, 2009 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
viewers
how many viewers would redbull get in an entire season of nascar races? compare that to the exposure affliction gets in running maybe 2 events a year at 100k ppv and however many viewers they get from an undercard on an HD channel that no one has.
by nk on Jan 28, 2009 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
And from what I hear from HDNet, the number of people that subscribe to the channel is growing stronger and stronger. Comcast carrying it helped out a lot.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jan 28, 2009 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
Sept 8, 2008
HDNet and HDNet Movies have been added to Comcast’s HD lineup. The agreement lets Comcast add the net to its systems, including free On Demand programming. Launched in September 2001, HDNet is home to “HDNet World Report” and “Dan Rather Reports,” as well as championship sports coverage from MLS to MMA and music programming with the HDNet Concert Series.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jan 28, 2009 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
In a statement, the two networks said that they had been added to “many” of Comcast’s systems but did not specify the number, nor were other terms of the deal disclosed.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jan 28, 2009 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
While it may indeed be apt, the numbers you’re utilizing aren’t close to true. The total combined annualized budget of Red Bull Racing and Scuderia Toro Rosso is less than 300 million (around 280 if i remember correctly). Of that total only about 70% comes directly from Red Bull in any given fiscal period, whereas all reports have Affliction Clothing bearing all responsibility for Affliction Entertainment’s budget.
You are proving what Swift was saying, and that is that nothing is clear cut with Affliction because it cannot be analyzed like one would Zuffa or ProElite.
Nowhere does he say that what Affliction is doing is a stroke of genius.
He is saying that it is Affliction’s call whether promoting actually does make them more money than through other marketing means. This is the key line:
So while Affliction may ultimately decide that its money is better spent outside of live event promotion, that decision will likely not rest entirely on the financial bottom line of the events themselves, but rather their contribution to the company’s overall finances, i.e. its clothing line.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jan 28, 2009 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
Sure, we can’t examine Affliction the exact same way we can analyze Zuffa or ProElite. But there is still a basic structure that can be analyzed. The only difference is in what effect Affliction’s MMA promotion has on their clothing line. The exact effect is something we can’t know, but there are a lot of factors we CAN look at, and determine whether or not they seem to be positive for Affliction’s bottom line.
by Michaelthebox on Jan 28, 2009 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, and that will paint some of the picture, but not the entire picture, which could be easily done with someone like ProElite.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jan 28, 2009 5:18 PM EST up reply actions
True that.
I guess the real issue is that the picture we CAN paint is really, really, really bad. So while the part we can’t paint may make up for that, it just doesn’t seem very likely, given that we can at least estimate the affect of what we do know on what we don’t know (Affliction’s fight events attract hardcore fans, who don’t buy Affliction T-shirts).
by Michaelthebox on Jan 28, 2009 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
50-80% of the Honda Center had some sort of Affliction apparel.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jan 28, 2009 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
7000 fans times 50 profit = 350k. Even assuming every single fan at the Honda Center bought a new t-shirt, they’re still a ways off from breaking even.
by Michaelthebox on Jan 28, 2009 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
And of course most come with shirts already.
by Michael Rome on Jan 28, 2009 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
Well you cannot measure the advertising effect by the product sold at the event. The profit comes from establishing a relationship with your target audience, helping put on events that relate to them is a tried and true advertising method.
Does the cost outweigh the gains?
That works if the event itself makes inroads with the types of fans who are most likely to buy your product. That isn’t the case, because the fans they’re looking for tend to be casual fans, but those are the ones that the marketing is not doing a great job reaching.
Now, if they think they can turn hardcore fans into Affliction clothing buyers, then we have a case for the events being a positive for the clothing label’s bottom line.
by Michaelthebox on Jan 28, 2009 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
Rome always brings up good points.
He’s mentioned a few times that Affliction only plans hosting 2 – 3 events a year and that isn’t competition for UFC. Agreed, but I’m not looking for head to head competition with UFC. I’m looking for an alternative every once in awhile. I don’t want to see Affliction take UFC spot on the perch, I want them to co-exist and continue to put on stacked cards a few times a year.
UFC might put on an event or two every month, but I’m really only interested in the 4-5 of their events on an annual basis. Honestly, I liked UFC shows more before they had tremendous success. There cards were always stacked, Affliction shows resemble those old shows. UFC 93 has become more indicative of UFC PPV offerings than UFC 92 so it’s nice to have the alternative.
If there shows are giving Affliction an edge over their competition in the fashion industry than the motive exists to keep promoting. There is more money carving a nitch in the fashion industry than will ever be in MMA.
Agreed.
I don’t see why they have to compete or take over the UFC.
They can co-exist by building their own fan base and raising their own revenue.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jan 28, 2009 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
Which they should have done in the first place.
Trying to peel Randy away to fight Fedor was a huge, huge, huge tactical error. Most of their original decisions were based on the expectation they could do so. That all got thrown out the window once Randy returned to the UFC.
by Michaelthebox on Jan 28, 2009 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
But fans wanted to see that fight and Affliction was the only real possible way of making it happen.
HDNet actually were the ones who were trying to peel away Randy as well.
Many people had some interest in that fight, so it cannot be solely blamed on Affliction.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jan 28, 2009 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
They’re the ones who went all-in on that notion, and they’re the ones getting burned as a result.
by Michaelthebox on Jan 28, 2009 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
Affliction is after all a t-shirt company at the end of day, as Dana White loves to remind everyone, and ultimately any money they make on these MMA events is icing on the cake to the brand building they are accomplishing.
I just don’t see any revenue achieved from promotion as “icing on the cake.” I see it as much more important.
It was probably thought of as potentially being icing on the cake if they could break even, but at this point, I think they are starting to burn profits from the actual t-shirt sales, and with the down economy, that’s a clear cut sign that they may pull out of the MMA venture.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Jan 28, 2009 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
This is an interesting strategy I must say.
I remember seeing some financial facts on Affliction and I was actually surprised how much $ they were making on their clothing apparel. If you can convince people to potentially buy a $40,$50 T-Shirt when the physical costs are minsicule ( I bet less than $1 made in China) you can make an insane profit.
Ever bought an NFL jersey? They’re expensive as hell but why? Some synthetic material with a little paint is probably very cheap but the NFL has exclusive rights and can do what it wants. Fans want to own jerseys to better connect with their organizations and players so they are willing to shell out high value for a cheap product. By putting on live events it does enhance the legitimacy of their value even if it is expensive. The question I think everyone wants to know is:
Does the $ of putting on a show with all of its logistics, organization, and commercial obstacles = the increase of $ of apparel by putting on their show?
I’ve always thought it was dumb of companies to shell out high $ just to put their logos on NASCAR cars but yet you can find 43 companies that do it. It seems dumb of Dupont ( a chemical manufacturing capacity) to sponsor Jeff Gordon but yet they do it. NASCAR fans don’t go out to buy more Dupont stuff but the intrinsic value of brand recognition outweighs the cost.
I do hope Affliction sticks around because the monopolized structure just doesn’t work well in fighting in my opinion. If the NFL or MLB got to choose who got to fight for its title it would breed favoritism. So here is to you financial and marketing gurus at Affliction; I hope that you are right.
This is pretty much what the Yankees have done the past 5 or so years. They lose money each season in their net income with their payroll being so high and adding in the luxury taxing and revenue sharing…They knew that even though they were losing money, they were still putting the “best” players out on the field maintaining interest and buzz from the fans of New York. Now they have their new ballpark opening and signed the top-3 free agents and they just might make record revenue of $500 million…
by RollinOnShabbos on Jan 28, 2009 5:27 PM EST reply actions
Very true and good analogy, although the PPV buys compared to network deals, sales, and attendance make the picture a bit fuzzy.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jan 28, 2009 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
You simply can’t point out the shows increase t-shirt sales without knowing the kind of increases they got when someone like Randy Couture wore Affliction in a major UFC main event. Without comparative data, you can’t say anything.
Losses for this show look like 3 million minimum, probably closer to 4 as I’m likely underestimating certain costs.
So the question is how do you really build any momentum with one show every 5 months? You don’t. It’s like starting over every time. I suspect they can peak around 150,000 buys, but there is no reason to believe Fedor-Barnett beats Fedor-Arlovski on PPV.
Bottom line is, they need some funding, and they also need to cut costs bigtime underneath. If they can pull that off they’ll be able to do 2 or 3 fun shows a year.
by Michael Rome on Jan 28, 2009 5:40 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
The comparative data is only relevant if they actually could get back in the UFC, which I’m not sure they can any longer.
by Michaelthebox on Jan 28, 2009 5:47 PM EST up reply actions
That’s a good debate. Advertising in the UFC Octagon doesn’t seem as friendly as it used to be. Even if they let your brand in, I’ve noticed UFC has curbed a lot of the advertiser spotlight in fighter interview segments.
Although, the UFC is getting A LOT MORE tighter with advertising and is looking to take a percentage of the cut now.
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jan 28, 2009 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
This is why Adam Swift is a complete moron:
Red Bull getting into Nascar where you have powerful penetration into the marketplace (viewers, fans, etc..) is completely different from affliction setting up there own promotion so 2 people can watch it.
The day you see Red Bull creating their own “Nascar” then you can make this asinine comparison.
Secondly…
If Affliction was really using this to push their brand wouldnt you think instead of paying Trump and Golden Boy millions they would get on showtime and CBS? where at least their clothing can get some visibility?
Stupid…
This guy is like Monty Python trying to write about the business of MMA.
by mmalogic on Jan 28, 2009 6:19 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Your post is here. Please don’t call people names. Whether or not you believe it’s true is irrelevant. The only reason I’m allowing it show back up is because you make some good points. Everyone knows you don’t like MMA Payout. It’s unnecessary to remind us. Your analysis is good; there’s no benefit derived from insulting the person that I quoted in my post.
by Cannon Jacques on Jan 28, 2009 8:52 PM EST up reply actions
First thing is I didn’t delete your post. I could have. I promise you one thing. I won’t call Dana any names as long as he doesn’t insult me personally. That probably won’t happen. I’m sure there have been posts where Dana was called a name that wasn’t deleted. Should we police that hard, given that Dana himself is prone to name calling? I don’t know.
What I do know is that Swift didn’t insult anyone in his post and was only involved in this because I referenced his post. Obviously, I didn’t agree with him. The point is that I want to avoid unwarranted personal attacks. Your welcome to criticize his ideas or his writing or whatever.
I hope you’re not going to try to spin this like I’m out to get the UFC, because everything I’ve posted is viewable to anyone who wishes to read it. No reasonable person can rightly accuse me of showing distinct bias against the UFC, Dana White, or the whole of Zuffa.
by Cannon Jacques on Jan 28, 2009 9:09 PM EST up reply actions
No, i dont think you’re out to get the UFC… I sincerely believe you didn’t like my personal attacks – which I understand.
My point was if that’s why my post was deleted (by whomever) they should also delete posts that attack Dana or Attencio or even Gary Millen.
If the standard for deletion is subjective (by whomever deleted it) that’s ok too as I don’t own the site and I dont make the rules… I would just like to know if that’s the case so I’m more prudent with my time in writing a post that may get deleted for arbitrary reasons.
Regarding the content of the post… If I am wrong – anyone who disagrees is free to debate why he isn’t a moron.
He didn’t delete it. He hid it. Deleting can’t be undone. Hidden comments can be unhidden.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Jan 28, 2009 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
The rules are no name-calling, threats or discussion of politics. Obviously we don’t censor everything that violates the first and third rules, but those are the things that can on occasion get your comments censored.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Jan 28, 2009 9:34 PM EST up reply actions
In rule is no name calling in general. Certainly, there are times when that is overlooked, rightly or not. Honestly, what you said wasn’t that egregious. I just don’t want this shit to get out of hand and it turns into people throwing insults around. I really didn’t want to hide your comments, because you raised some good points.
You can call Swift’s arguments moronic or stupid. Just don’t call him names. If Gary Millen doesn’t want to be called names he shouldn’t go by Jerry Millen.
by Cannon Jacques on Jan 28, 2009 9:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec’d for declaring open season on Gary ‘Attention Whore’ Millen
by Derek Suboticki on Jan 28, 2009 10:52 PM EST up reply actions
LOOK
The main thing to look at here is this if the PPV numbers grow from show to show IE: 100k to 125k and they can get a 1.5 million dollar gate in this economy, competing against a golden boy promoted boxing card across town. They can really make a solid pitch for additional financing from Golden Boy or someone like Mark Cuban.
I also think that a lot of the contracts they have signed are two or three fight deals so If they do a third show they’ll be able to reign in there ridiculous payroll and try and keep it closer in line with there gate/ppv estimate. This would also allow them to make better use of the promotion as a marketing device through waisting money on guys like Tim and Linland etc. at there overvalued price. Ive really really enjoyed the first two shows and though they got better from show to show and hope we see a whole lot more.
YAMATO DAMASHII

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