How Many Affliction: Day of Reckoning Tickets Were Actually Purchased?
by Luke Thomas on Jan 27, 2009 11:36 AM EST
in News
74 comments
A decent number, but not nearly enough especially if De La Hoya was paid $5 million to show:
"A celebrity who is here in bronze only, Oscar De La Hoya, [while] the live version is in nearby Anaheim, where his company got a $5 million fee from a T-shirt maker so that he would be personally involved the promotion of a mixed martial arts show," Merchant said.
That was big news in the MMA industry, since the entire announced payroll of Affliction’s card was $3.3 million. The paid attendance was 8,946 for a gate of $1,512,750.
If Affliction did indeed pay De La Hoya $5 million, that meant that not only did the boxer attending his first MMA show make $1.7 million more than all of the fighters on the card combined, but that Affliction was also in the hole nearly $7 million without figuring in expenses before adding the pay-per-view income.
Merchant said on Monday that Golden Boy Promotions CEO Richard Schaefer told him the figure. All sides, though, insisted there was no such payment.
Two weeks out from the event you could purchase ten tickets together in any section. Michael Rome and I both independently verified this, to say nothing of our sources who indicated just how slow ticket sales were at that time. There is also the possibility that Affliction paid substantial amounts of money to "purchase" tickets themselves, thereby raising the numbers on the totals. Clearly a last minute media push helped the show, but there was still considerable amounts of papering. Yes, the UFC has recently papered shows to this extent, but they also followed them up with extremely successful shows in closely timed proximity.
The overall point, though, is that what plagued Affliction before is what plagues them now: financial solvency. $1.5 million on the live gate is very respectable figure, but not when the payroll is more than twice that amount. Affliction is able to produce very good quality fights with quality fighters in a quality environment. But they are depleting their resources in an unsustainable way to do so. The choices here for Affliction going forward are fairly simply: find a way to cut costs or find a way to increase revenue or both, otherwise there will be no choice at all save shutting the doors on this MMA venture altogether.
UPDATE: Let me give Affliction Entertainment one small note of praise. The removal of a musical act from this show was a requisite but welcome change. Aside from the fact that such a muscial act has positively no business opening and middling a MMA show for "entertainment" sake, it's also on obvious financial burden that can be scrapped. By killing off that portion of the show, the overall experience is better and the bottomline is preserved.
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It sucks
Because these shows should be selling out at regular prices. Damn good quality and entertaining fights top to bottom.
Its like that Pepsi MAX commercial sais…“WAKE UP PEOPLE!”
by xFenixKnightx on Jan 27, 2009 11:42 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I can attest to seeing 8 tickets together at any section that wasn’t the $1000 seats together on Friday the day before the fight. When I bought my tickets I could pick my section AND row. What’s odd is the show looked more packed than last time but apparently it wasn’t.
by ChillMike on Jan 27, 2009 11:53 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Getting rid of the terrible music act was a definite plus. When done right, with the focus on the fighters and without any of the fluff, Affliction’s second show proved there could be some real quality and entertainment. Too bad they won’t be around long unless someone saves ‘em. Unfortunately, with this terrible economic environment, I don’t know if anyone would be willing to fund Affliction, because it’s not just the short term: it’ll have to be for a couple years, because I think it will take Affliction that long before they get some serious momentum. A television deal would help, but again, probably not gonna happen without serious financial backing first in order for a network to take on the risk of putting MMA on TV. Don’t want another EliteXC.
by pud333 on Jan 27, 2009 12:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Takin the musical off was definately a plus IMO as well.
I also thought the removal of the ramp was nice. I’m just not big on ramps in my MMA. Sorry, Japanese MMA. Leave that to wrestling.
by xFenixKnightx on Jan 27, 2009 12:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Enough with the $5 million figure
The only person who has ever said anything about it was a bitter Larry Merchant on a competing show. It was likely conjecture, perhaps completely off the cuff. We know they don’t treat MMA even handedly, and why would it be different now?
Golden Boy his disavowed the $5 million thing, and Lorreta Hunt broke it down on Sherdog. The $5 million statement is an out-and-out lie. I’d imagine it was hyperbole.
by ghettoiam on Jan 27, 2009 12:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
They didnt deny anything… they actually confirmed “Afflictions Financial Commitment”.
They only denied that Oscar was being paid just to show up at the event.
by mmalogic on Jan 27, 2009 12:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dilemma
I think it’s great that Affliction pays fighters so well. I think that this is something they have to do in order to get quality competitors. The dilemma is figuring out where you can cut costs while still maintaining quality. I don’t know how much they could save buy scrapping the back stage commentator but that is a start.
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
by Warhand on Jan 27, 2009 1:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Dilema part 2
Is that they only seem ready to have a card as often as Fedor can fight. As great as Fedor is, they are backing themselves in an EXC type of corner both financially as well as promotion wise.
by Razreshat on Jan 27, 2009 1:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
exactly… they can’t build a card without fedor. Look at their “attempted” card last fall with AA/Barnett.
They are only going to be able to put on what… 2 cards of year with fedor as the main attraction? I don’t see how putting on 2 cards a year is supposed to be competition to the UFC, who has ppv card every month along with fight nights and free cards on spike
by dbcb on Jan 27, 2009 2:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like megadeth, but music at an MMA show is like a half time show in football. It is time for everyone there to get up and go take a leak. Which, if you have ever been to an MMA show, there is plenty of time in which to pee between fights.
by szucconi on Jan 27, 2009 1:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Why Are We Still Writing that DLH Got Paid 5 Million To Show?
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jan 27, 2009 1:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Did you really need to link that twice? Also that article mentions ODLH not getting a penny to attend the show, but does in no way refute that Golden Boy did not get paid millions.
by iiowyn on Jan 27, 2009 2:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Of course they got paid millions?
Do people want Golden Boy to work for free for Affliction?
by MMASuPreMaCy on Jan 27, 2009 2:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The point is, Affliction is spending millions when they are already losing their asses off on their events.
by iiowyn on Jan 27, 2009 2:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL.
"You should ignore that ridiculous number, even though they obviously paid them a ridiculous number, because why the hell would they work for free!?
by Michaelthebox on Jan 27, 2009 2:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The point is not that Oscar got paid to make one appearance… everyone knows that’s not the case and if you read what merchant said even he didnt exactly say that.
The point is Affliction is running around saying Golden Boy is our partner, Trump is our Partner, etc…
This is all a big joke.
This is as ridiculous as telling associates at a business meeting that Armani is my partner because I happen to be wearing an Armani suit I purchased.
by mmalogic on Jan 27, 2009 3:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Come on , the card was great and this production was a huge improvement over the last show. Further…we are still talking about Affliction during the week of GSP vs Penn build up…score one for Affliction.
Perhaps, just once, we can avoid the negative comments or constant talk of “financial solvency”…lets not kid our selves about what is known and not known about the finances of Affliction. Accounting should be left to accountants.
Wags
by DocWagner on Jan 27, 2009 2:19 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Accounting should be left to accountants.
Whats with the assumption that nobody on here is a good enough accountant to look at the numbers and figure out whats up?
by Michaelthebox on Jan 27, 2009 2:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Look at ZUFFA and Station Casino's numbers
Tell me who is in waaaaaayyyy more debt right now
Gimme 1 Round!
by skwirrl on Jan 27, 2009 3:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Zuffa is doing fine. Station is struggling, just like every other casino during this economy.
by Phildo on Jan 27, 2009 3:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Station was in trouble before the recession.
by bignerd on Jan 27, 2009 4:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Who gives a fuck about Station Casinos? Are we on here arguing over Affliction’s clothing line?
by Michaelthebox on Jan 27, 2009 3:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You really need a very basic course in debt financing.
by Michael Rome on Jan 27, 2009 3:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
actually Zuffa is doing just fine and for the record they are a competely different company from Station Casinos.
by #5mmafan on Jan 27, 2009 3:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Zuffa LLC =/////////= Station Casinos
Zuffa is its own privately held company and Station is a wholly unrelated company that was privatized with a leveraged “going-private” transaction. Really the only “relation” between the two companies is that the Fertittas have an ownership in them both.
The calling of the credit facility against Station has no bearing on Zuffa. At all.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
by The_Gaijin on Jan 27, 2009 4:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
I guess I can’t say “wholly unrelated”, because there’s a certain amount of common ownership – but without any numbers in front of me, I couldn’t say whether they’d meet the legal definition or not.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
by The_Gaijin on Jan 27, 2009 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently you didnt get the Memo
Comments will not be tolerated unless they are pro-zuffa and Anti- any other Organization.
Dana White fellating comments are also rec’d
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "
by aaronb on Jan 27, 2009 5:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am one of the biggest Dana watchdogs there is...
but you should at least have a legitimate gripe with him/Zuffa before you go off on some diatribe.
They have an operating credit facility – but to suggest there in some crippling debt situation is clueless. Their credit facility has little nothing to do with the situation at Station Casinos.
On the otherhand, the MMA operating arm of the Affliction business is heavily in the red and hemorrhaging with every show they run, especially given the fact that they’re throwing around more money (escalator clauses on fighter contracts, Golden Boy "partnership") and bringing in less revenues (gate, ppv, etc.).
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
by The_Gaijin on Jan 27, 2009 7:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It should be perfectly clear at this point that 90 percent of Affliction talk on this blog is going to be about peripheral issues like ticket sales and what senile old Larry Merchant has to say. Some people are far more interested in playing fortune teller with the finances than actually having another elite venue for MMA.
by smoogy on Jan 27, 2009 3:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Show us another elite venue for MMA and we will talk about stuff other than how long can they keep losing money.
by iiowyn on Jan 27, 2009 3:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So Affliction’s ticket sales don’t matter but UFC’s salaries and how evil they are doesn’t?
Either we only talk about the fights, or we talk about everything, you can’t pick and choose.
by Phildo on Jan 27, 2009 3:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s simple they need to cut expenses. Keep Fedor and M-1 for $2 mil per event. Retain Barnett and Arlovski at a cheaper price (instead of 10 times the going rate). Fedor is going to sell the show, so try to fill the rest of the card with lighter weight class guys who are much cheaper to employ. They are already moving in this direction.
As far as headliners not Fedor. They might be building something with Belfort. They could probably pull off a much smaller event supported by ticket sales if it were Belfort vs Lawler or Belfort vs Moussai, but that is still a PPV away. Tito vs Babalu might fit the same bill. With Fedor’s $2 mil missing from the card, a $1 mil gate + 20-25k PPV buys with cheaper under card would keep them solvent.
by bignerd on Jan 27, 2009 2:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
If they cut salaries, the UFC is gonna grab every single one of their guys away from them. Except Lindland.
by iiowyn on Jan 27, 2009 2:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
whats wrong with Barnett, i love who fighter who will take at least 11 mins in full mount to finish a former B-level fighter.
by #5mmafan on Jan 27, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Let’s give some credit to Yvel for being one tough SOB to withstand the amount of punishment he took before tapping out.
That being said, “catch-wrestling” golden boy should have been able to snatch a sub in the amount of time he had.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
by The_Gaijin on Jan 27, 2009 4:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yvel showed alot of guts in that fight, no doubt about it.
by #5mmafan on Jan 28, 2009 12:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, a lot of those guys are itching to get back in UFC . . . read my post below.
by bignerd on Jan 27, 2009 4:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You know they cancelled the Barnett/Andrei card because of low ticket sales, right?
Without Fedor, they aren’t getting 1 million gate.
You also continue to flat out ignore marketing and administrative costs. 1 million gate plus 400k PPVs is not a road to success.
by Michaelthebox on Jan 27, 2009 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you added an extra zero there Michael
by iiowyn on Jan 27, 2009 3:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL.
I meant 400k PPV revenue. 400k PPV buys for an Affliction card would be weird, wild stuff.
by Michaelthebox on Jan 27, 2009 3:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
At the end of the day we’re in the Math business…
The Math will never work for Affliction unless they drop whatever they’re doing and go regional… and at that point it probably wouldn’t be worth it for them in opportunity costs.
Einstein wouldn’t be able to figure out their problem/equation if they want the equation to equal a successful national promotion.
by mmalogic on Jan 27, 2009 3:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yup.
I finally realized why I tend to expect promotions to fold a lot faster than they do. I overestimate intelligence, and underestimate the desperation to survive.
Affliction’s fight promotion is a sunk cost, at this point. But they’re trying desperately to make that lost money worth it, and its just gonna result in more money lost if they manage to keep it up.
by Michaelthebox on Jan 27, 2009 3:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Isn’t that the American way right now? Throw good money after bad and hope you fix it.
- Bad business model? Check.
- Completely out of control costs? Check.
- Poorly calculated value of assets? Check.
- Massive current and near future losses? Check.
- Ignorance/wilful blindness to reality? Check.
Why haven’t they applied to Congress for some TARP money?
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
by The_Gaijin on Jan 27, 2009 4:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What the HELL
are they paying Golden Boy $5m for then?!?!
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
by The_Gaijin on Jan 27, 2009 7:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They could argue that their t-shirts are a national treasure.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito on Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on Jan 27, 2009 5:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t see how regional makes any sense whatsoever.
by bignerd on Jan 27, 2009 4:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Explain how a regional model would work to turn a profit?
by bignerd on Jan 27, 2009 5:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It takes a massive scale down. Build local fighters and have a good relationship with Zuffa.
by szucconi on Jan 27, 2009 5:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They can scale down and remain national. A good relationship with Zuffa isn’t happening.
by bignerd on Jan 27, 2009 6:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m sure UFC would nab a few. Really, look at their roster, how many of those guys are really going to crawl back to Dana White if they can get paid the same thing outside the UFC? Fedor (No), Arlovski (Likely), Barnett (No), Sylvia (no offer), Belfort (likely), Tito (No), Babalu (No), Lindland (no offer), Lil Nog (likely).
by bignerd on Jan 27, 2009 4:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
How can Affliction pay fighters what they can get in the UFC if they’re scaling back while the UFC is increasing payroll? Remember, they not only have to cover the pay, they also have to cover lost sponsorship money, which is often much higher than the pay the organizations give them.
They also don’t have to regain all those fighters. They only have to buy off a couple of the ones that become stars through Affliction fights, like Belfort after crushing Lindland. Once the cream gets pulled away, its over.
by Michaelthebox on Jan 27, 2009 6:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cost to cover sponsorship money is just speculation. I saw plenty of sponsorship ads on the fighters for Banned and DOR, even saw the same stupid shake up drink. No one but the fighters and managers know if there is a difference in money.
by bignerd on Jan 27, 2009 7:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Unless the people running the companies that sponsor fighters went to the Affliction entertainment school of business, there has to be a difference in pay.
There’s no reason to pay someone fighting on a show that gets 100k PPV buys the same as someone fighting on a show that gets 500k PPV buys.
by Phildo on Jan 27, 2009 7:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You are not dealing with Coke, McDonald’s or Microsoft here who are counting viewers to dollars. Most guys get sponsorship money from business in their local town. An authentic event picture and an autograph is the most they are hoping for.
Those t-shirt and workout drink guys are desperate for any endorsement they can get, they would pay similar.
by bignerd on Jan 27, 2009 8:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You’re just wrong.
Someone fighting on the undercard of a UFC PPV, someone fighting on the main card, and the guy fighting in the main event are all going to get paid differently for wearing the same patch, because there will be more exposure.
The same thing goes for someone fighting in the UFC will get paid more than someone fighting for Affliction, who will get more than someone fighting in PFC.
There’s a reason it costs more to buy a commercial during the super bowl than any other time. More people watch the super bowl, so it costs more to advertise there. Fighter shorts, t-shirts, and NASCAR cars are all advertising. It costs more to advertise somewhere that is seen by more people.
by Phildo on Jan 27, 2009 8:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Expecting sponsors to have a brain is very reasonable speculation. Unless sponsors are dumb as bricks, sponsorships in the UFC will be much higher than sponsorships in Affliction.
Weren’t you saying you work at a marketing firm or something? I’m not seeing it.
by Michaelthebox on Jan 27, 2009 7:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Then again, originally Affliction was a fighter sponsor…
by iiowyn on Jan 27, 2009 8:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What up Y'all
I know one of you smart mofos and mathmeticians can answer this …
What is the average total payroll (including bonuses) for Affliction, vs. that of the UFC?
"The path to enlightenment is through suffering"
by RearNakedChoker on Jan 27, 2009 6:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Short answer: we don’t know. Waaaay too much money off the books.
Long answer: Affliction’s payroll is probably comparable to a mid-to-major UFC card. But its almost pointless to compare the two, because Affliction’s payroll is moving down, while the UFC’s payroll is moving up. We have no idea what the comparison will be like by the time of Affliction’s next expected card in the summer.
by Michaelthebox on Jan 27, 2009 6:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The top-end Affliction guys are banking a lot more “guaranteed” money. That would be about all I could say with certainty.
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
by The_Gaijin on Jan 27, 2009 7:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Where is the evidence of UFC scaling up there payroll? It would be great, but I haven’t seen it.
by bignerd on Jan 27, 2009 7:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If it’s so easy you should be able to post something.
by bignerd on Jan 27, 2009 8:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I could. But why should I? At some point you gotta educate yourself.
by Michaelthebox on Jan 27, 2009 11:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So basically I dared you and you came up with nothing but an excuse.
by bignerd on Jan 28, 2009 3:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well he did dare you, but will you double-dog dare him?
I am the bastard love child of Junie Browning and Diamond Dave Kaplan.
by The_Gaijin on Jan 28, 2009 9:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Look at the minimum pay over the last few years.
by iiowyn on Jan 27, 2009 8:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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