"How Not to Punch" by Badr Hari
by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 2, 2009 11:01 AM EST
in Technique
35 comments
This is the fourth installment of my "How Not to Punch" series. We've covered Jason Lambert twice and Doug Marshall once and now we're looking at Badr Hari in his recent K-1 bout with Alistair Overeem.
With 1:52 left in the first round Hari throws a looping left hook with his right hand down and Overeem counters with a shorter left hook of his own that clips Hari and sends him stumbling for a second. Almost exactly 50 seconds later Hari does the exact same thing and so does Alistair which shuts off Hari's lights and ends the bout.
If you watch the entire fight you can see that every time Badr throws a hook with either hand he drops his other hand to nipple level and leaves his chin exposed. Alistair follows perfect boxing technique to counter a wide hooker, throw your own hook that is going to get there quicker and protect yourself from the incoming shot.
Look at the gif for a second and watch the right hand of both fighters.
See how Hari pulls his right hand down as he throws the left hook? His chin comes away from his body slightly in the process of throwing the hook and there is nothing to prevent a return shot. Now watch Overeem, his right hand guards his temple when his head is low and his jaw is protected by his arm and shoulder. As he throws the hook and his head comes up he slides the defensive hand right to his jaw and keeps it pasted there.
The result is clear, Overeem lands flush on an exposed jaw and Hari's hand (while slowed due to getting jacked) bounces harmlessly off of Alistair's glove. It really is picture perfect technique against pretty bad technique which is sad considering it came from such a high level K-1 star.
Throwing a punch requires more than just throwing your fist at the other guy, everything from proper foot positioning to proper hip movement and protecting yourself from return shots can not be over looked...obviously.
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Jackson/Silva 3 I think could also be an example of this, though I do not remember exactly where Jackson’s right hand was.
by iiowyn on Jan 2, 2009 11:29 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
I wanted to touch on that…but I like having a gif or video to show it perfectly.
And the UFC has gone ahead and made it very clear that we can’t post GIF’s of their fights. But yeah, anything with Silva is a good example of poor hooking, especially now that he is a bit slower on the draw and Jackson did the perfect “shorter hook” to take him out.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 2, 2009 11:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I should clarify..
before a Wand fan attacks me. I love the guy, but his wide hookhookhookhookhook style leaves him open…fairly obviously
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 2, 2009 11:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How dare you complement a fighter's technique without Dana White's permission!
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Jan 2, 2009 4:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
he rushes the right hook a bit but you can see that he is already returning his left hand toward his chin (he stops as Wandy goes down) but it’s eerily similar to the Hari/Overeem fight in that it’s a looping left that gets beat by a shorter left hook and a guy leaving his chin open while the other guy deflects.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 2, 2009 5:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly, a lot of fans clamor about how bad Wanderlei’s looping is, but in this case, Rampage was doing the same. The only difference is that Rampage was ducked under his hands before that, Wanderlei went for a power shot, and Rampage just happened to throw a huge left at the same time.
It’s just one of those unfortunate shots that Wanderlei did not see coming. Classic examples of straight boxing vs. looping punches are everywhere. Off the top of my head, Crocop vs. Wanderlei at the GP. VERY classic example.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Jan 2, 2009 5:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
True true...
He is looping for sure but he also is looping a bit more defensively.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 2, 2009 5:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So the UFC legal team forced y’all to stop putting gifs on the front pages; do they say anything about the comments?
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by themachiavellian on Jan 2, 2009 5:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dunno honestly...
I don’t remember their communication. I personally won’t put one up…but if one of our readers do…eh…what can I do about it?
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 2, 2009 6:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
does...not do...ugh
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 2, 2009 6:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
look how close quinton comes to getting KOd, thats why your hand needs to be where his is, wandys hook hit pages hand and het got smashed, thats how silva should have thrown his hook as well
by Chuntsman949 on Jan 2, 2009 3:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Very interesting...
This is probably one of the articles in the little series regarding how not to punch that I’m a bit more inclined to shove off to the side.
Hari was simply an idiot in that fight. Especially when you look at his run during the K-1 GP, notably the Zimmerman bout. He was able to easily dodge blows and counter quickly with either hooks or straight jabs on his comeback win over Zimmerman, yet in this bout, he looks to be trying to knock Overeem’s block off with looping punches.
Honestly, Hari looked like he was overwhelmed by Overeem’s size and power. The MMA guys, I think, have a bit of an advantage in that they get in close. There are only a handful of K-1 guys that I’d actually think had a chance against MMA guys in K-1 bouts, most notably other power punchers or guys with length and versatility in their Muay Thai. Bonjasky comes to mind because his knees are devastating. Manhoef is already successful, and maybe Le Banner since he’s an absolute warrior and also packs a mean punch. Hari normally does, but his lankiness and overall horrible gameplan just didn’t mix well.
Of course, Overeem has been improving, and I note that MOST fans have been down on him even in his last few bouts saying he’s still washed up. I really don’t care what anyone believes from before, but he has obivously made strides. His size alone makes him formidable, and if we are to believe he’s roiding, I don’t understand why he’d be talking to the UFC.
He grew in size over a few years? OMFG!!! It’s called working out. Sure, he could be juicing, but… that’s a lot of time to potentially put weight on, especially after he decided heavyweight is where he wanted to be.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Jan 2, 2009 3:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
One year, Leland. Overeem gained 30 pounds of what looks to be almost all muscle in a little over one year.
You may not agree, but misrepresenting other people’s arguments to support your own is poor form.
by Michaelthebox on Jan 2, 2009 3:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
lol this is exactly the kind of B.S. I find so hard to believe. A 6’5" athlete adding 20 lbs to his frame in his mid-20s… UNPOSSIBLE!
by smoogy on Jan 2, 2009 3:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A fighter using steroids to bulk up 30 pounds in an untested environment? Also unpossible.
I’m not saying he is, and I’m not saying he isn’t, because I don’t know. I hope he isn’t. But its perfectly reasonable to suspect.
by Michaelthebox on Jan 2, 2009 4:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wait...
How did I misrepresent other people’s arguments to support my own? All I said was that his bulking up could potentially NOT be steroids. Other people’s arguments were that he was potentially using steroids to bulk up. I didn’t misrepresent their argument, I am saying quite plainly that they are arguing steroids, and I’m not.
Honestly, I don’t know if he is or not. But if your figures are correct, 30 pounds in a year is NOT IMPOSSIBLE, but HIGHLY unlikely. VERY HIGHLY unlikely.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Jan 2, 2009 4:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How did I misrepresent other people’s arguments to support my own?
By laughing at the notion that he’s gained size over a few years as being unrealistic. The big smoking gun isn’t the past several years, because he was roughly the same size for years. He gained, according to the weights I’ve seen, 30 pounds from November 2007 to now. A year and a month.
It isn’t impossible, but its a big enough jump that the notion of him being on steroids shouldn’t be disregarded out of hand.
by Michaelthebox on Jan 2, 2009 4:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, many bloggers have noted a start in this over the past couple years, so I was only misrepresenting views here that I didn’t even read or care to read.
Since we are pointing at November 2007 to present, I’m not convinced that he’s a juicer unless he tests positive. So many people are jumping the gun on this, and so many articles are in my Google Reader completely blasted Overeem as a juicer when it’s entirely possible for someone to gain that much muscle in that much time on a fairly simple workout routine.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Jan 2, 2009 4:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough. I don’t think anybody should outright accuse him of juicing without evidence, but ignoring the possibility is only lying to ourselves. Its possible he is.
by Michaelthebox on Jan 2, 2009 4:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My question is… and I haven’t actually researched this, so maybe I’ll do that, but can HGH really push that much mass on in a year? I mean, is the only real advantage and difference in using HGH that it’s undetectable currently? Or is it lesser quality results?
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Jan 2, 2009 4:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have no idea, actually. But I was only putting HGH out there as one possibility. For all we know, he could have a frickin cocktail of stuff. Its unfortunate, but at this point competitors in Japan have to be looked at with a lot of suspicion, given the complete lack of testing.
If Overeem were making this growth in the UFC, there might still be a couple questions, but largely people wouldn’t be so suspicious. He’s a victim of his environment.
by Michaelthebox on Jan 2, 2009 5:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The same UFC that forgoes pre-fight tests when they run shows in the UK?
By the standard you’re putting forward, you can’t trust anyone who hasn’t been subject to the new randomized testing protocol. Scheduled tests are only marginally harder to beat than no testing at all.
by smoogy on Jan 2, 2009 6:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ALSO...
I’ve read countless books and articles that completely contradict that ridiculous statement. Gains 30 pounds of what looks to be almost all muscle in a little over one year? Sure, I said a few years, but one year, you make it sound like it’s not possible at all.
I’ve read stories of guys going on low glycemic, heavy protein diets in conjunction with failure circuits and gaining up to 30 pounds of muscle in a month. Of course, that’s from 150 lbs. Overeem would have a much harder time at a higher weight, but it gives you an idea of what the human body can do. Of course, not everyone can do that either. But if we are talking one year… Overeem could likely gain 20+ pounds of muscle in a year, no problem.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Jan 2, 2009 4:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I’m sure its possible. That doesn’t make it likely.
Maybe he did just go on some incredible diet that gained him 30 pounds. Or he took some HGH in an untested environment.
Really, which one is more realistic?
Hopefully he fights again in the states, and tests clean. But it concerns me, and its a reasonable concern.
by Michaelthebox on Jan 2, 2009 4:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly, it isn’t that unrealistic, but it’s more unrealistic at a higher weight. So, I’m borderline on if he actually is using HGH or not. Since HGH is untestable right now, I’d be much more inclined to believe he is.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Jan 2, 2009 4:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But he added almost 20lbs of muscle! How can you naturally add 30lbs of muscle to your frame! When a guy puts on 40lbs of muscle like that, its obviously the result of HOIDS. I mean, seriously, gaining 50lbs of muscle like that isn’t healthy.
by smoogy on Jan 2, 2009 3:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What number are you using here? Nobody is saying 20, and nobody is saying 40.
by Michaelthebox on Jan 2, 2009 3:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve heard anywhere from 20 to 60+ lbs uttered by various people. The actual jump from Strikeforce to Dynamite was 26lbs. That is not a far-fetched number considering his age, size, and his long tenure at 205lbs.
by smoogy on Jan 2, 2009 4:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m sick of hearing the steroid argument, to be honest. If he’s juicing, then we’ll see a noticeable difference when he weighs back in during a States event. It isn’t unheard of at all for him to gain 20 pounds, and people are basing the fact that it’s PURE MUSCLE on how he looks? Give me a fucking break.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Jan 2, 2009 4:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Strikeforce to Dynamite was 26lbs.
Where are you getting your numbers from? I was under the impression he weighed 224 for Strikeforce, 254 for Dynamite. 30 pounds.
by Michaelthebox on Jan 2, 2009 4:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I just double checked. 224 for Strikeforce, 253.5 for Dynamite. 29.5 pounds.
by Michaelthebox on Jan 2, 2009 5:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Show Wandy . . .
Almost a replay how Rampage knocked him out. Blocked Wandy with his right hand held high than caught him straight on the chin with a hard left while Wandy was winding up for another looping punch.
by bignerd on Jan 2, 2009 3:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Silva's training
I was a little surprised to see Silva talking about how much he was working on his boxing going into the Jackson fight. Were I his trainer I would have focused more on taking advantage of Jackson’s excellent boxing habits and using his tendency to go for the high blind cover vs the hook to bring him into the Muay Thai clinch, a place in his game where all evidence so far suggests he has not evolved skills enough to counter those of Silva. Athletes’ egos sometimes cause them to go straight after an opponnent’s strength, but I don’t see how one camp could have erased a decade’s worth of tendencies to loop and carry hands too low, at least not enough to catch up to Jackson’s level of boxing. Silva went straight into Rampage’s house, but won the first two fights by moving the fight to his.
by theidlesthand on Jan 2, 2009 6:55 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
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