Cro Cop vs. Tito Ortiz or Lyoto Machida Being Floated Around for UFC: Germany
by Sam Cupitt on Jan 19, 2009 8:52 PM EST
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PrintSherdog's Tim Leidecker has floated the rumor that for UFC 99, the first UFC event ever to be held in Germany, Mirko "Cro Cop" Filipovic could very well return to the UFC in the main event to face either Tito Ortiz or Lyoto Machida.
From Sherdog:
The main event has changed completely as well: With both Couture (recently underwent surgery on his elbow) and Liddell (will fight Shogun in April) out, the UFC is floating the idea of putting Mirko “Cro Cop” Filipovic, who is possibly returning, into the main event against either Tito Ortiz or Lyoto Machida. The problem, sources say, is that Ortiz does not want to move up to heavyweight, while Cro Cop does not want to go down to 205 pounds.
Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira vs. Cheick Kongo, a bout that was previously negotiated a little more than a year ago, may become the co-headliner. A possible lightweight title defense by B.J. Penn depends on the outcome of his Jan. 31 superfight against Georges St. Pierre. Otherwise Kenny Florian may be held off from his second title shot with a clash against Diego Sanchez should the “Nightmare” defeat Joe Stevenson at UFC 95.
It's doubtful that this will plan out for a number of reasons, a few of them actually mentioned in the above quote, but wouldn't that be something if a Cro Cop vs. Ortiz fight actually headlined UFC 99.
If I told you that in May of last year you would have been utterly confused and then I would have to explain it and then you still wouldn't understand and it would have been a long drawn out conversation that had a very unfulfilling ending with you just have going "Okay... what a stupid a conversation."
Kongo vs. Nogueira is also a pretty cool match-up, I fear for Nog's safety if he is as placid as he was against Mir.
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Definately
But I know the UFC wants him on a Germany card. I could see him vs Machida being an awesome fight. Two extremely technical fighters. Only problem is they are both counterpunchers. If Crocop’s knee were to be healthy enough to sprawl well Tito would get massacred. That being said Crocop just had a minor – medium level knee surgery. I don’t think the explosion would be there. Tito I have the feeling will be near completely healthy. He’s been out for a long time since his back surgery and nobody knows how bad his back really was. From what I remember he had fused discs which is bad but not entirely horrible. Or was that big Timmeh?
Gimme 1 Round!
Do want
Cro Cop in Germany. I’m very excited by this potential bout between Ortiz and Mirko. Definite rec.
I think it’s a shame that Randy won’t be able to fight on the card in Germany.
Aside from that, Cro Cop v. Ortiz, Nog v. Kongo, and any combination of BJ, KENFLO, and Diego would make for a fine show.
"BJ on the BE" - Kierkegaard
It would be great if they could still utilize Randy for promotion and commentary.
by Rundownloser on Jan 19, 2009 10:42 PM EST up reply actions
Randy should absolutely be
a full-time commentator. He’s got some of the best insights in the business, and he’s also probably the most well-spoken man in MMA…at least English-speaking man.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Jan 19, 2009 10:43 PM EST up reply actions
I can’t wait for him to return to commentating. I want him to continue fighting, but I really miss the detail and keen eye he brought to the broadcasts.
by Rundownloser on Jan 19, 2009 10:44 PM EST up reply actions
Sounds like an interesting card with a lot of good match-ups.
Maybe Dana can get The “Hoff” to help promote us in Germany.
He’ll be Dana’s German Marty Cordova.
And the great thing is, he can pay Hoff in cheeseburgers on the floor.
"BJ on the BE" - Kierkegaard
Machida losing to Mirko might cause the internet to melt down. I’m not even sure how people would handle it.
Who do you have if this fight happens? Obviously it’s hard to say how the cut would affect Mirko, but it would turn into a kickboxing match, and I assume it would be close.
by Michael Rome on Jan 20, 2009 12:31 AM EST up reply actions
i got machida if that happens.. Mirko is looking slower and slower in his past few fights. (he looked relatively fast to choi but thats cause choi would lose to a tortoise in a foot race) I think machida runs circles around mirko for the win..
i think the only chance mirko has is to hit that LHK cleanly. but i just dont see it happening.
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Jan 20, 2009 2:32 AM EST up reply actions
Machida doesn't have the power to really back Mirko up
And the great equalizer in this fight would be Mirko leg kicking the SHIT outta Machida. I would have Mirko via leg kicks.
Gimme 1 Round!
I seriously doubt Mirko could find Machida with his leg kicks. Machida would dictate tempo, pace, and where the fight goes.
I have no doubt Machida would take this to the ground and submit Mirko.
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill
That’s right. Machida took Ortiz down. What makes people think he couldn’t do the same to CC and beat him up on the gorund or sub him? It must be CC’s amazing ground game..
Kuwabara Kuwabara
by J. B. Maddox on Jan 20, 2009 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
You’re right Machida would and/or will do it, but will wait for the last 15 seconds of the round to do it.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
still bitter huh?
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Jan 20, 2009 9:04 PM EST up reply actions
Can ya tell?
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Jan 21, 2009 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
The only reason to make Machida and CroCop is to build up Machida even more due to him destroying a legend. For instance, if Machida runs off a four-fight win streak consisting of Sokoudjou, Ortiz, Silva, and Mirko, it’d put him at the top for a title shot at 205. And I doubt Machida cares if he fights at 220 pounds against CroCop. It’s not like Mirko would have a substantial size advantage.
Or better yet, I hope Dana signs Overeem and brings back Mirko to have them finish their stupid feud in the UFC. I’d then get to watch Overeem kill him. We’d witness our first death in the UFC.
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill
I’d have grave doubts that Machida could make 220. He’d have to eat a lot of pies. He barely makes 205. What fight was it that he made 198 or something?
I think his point was just that Machida isn’t going to “get to 220” and would be at a size disadvantage. Not that he’d need to and can’t.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Jan 19, 2009 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
My point was that I dont think Machida could make heavyweight. Whehter its 207 or higher.
To sum up: Machida wont fight Cro Cop at heavyweight.
My mistake.
I’m sure he could get to 206, though.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Jan 19, 2009 10:37 PM EST up reply actions
BJ motherf’n Penn The Wikipedia article is wrong. It was open weight tournament, Penn came in around 190 ish and Machida weighed a hair under 220. Search for the video. Pudgy Penn VS pudgy Machida. It’s like a cabbage patch fight!
This is why BJ Penn is a bad man and will be the victor in two weeks.
by cyph on Jan 20, 2009 11:42 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Jan 20, 2009 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
Also
BJ is the only person I have seen that has been able to actually hit Machida.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Jan 20, 2009 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah I thought you’d end up mentioning that fight. I doubt Machida would want to do that again anyway. He looked terrible and it would probably severely effect his speed and cardio for him to be carrying that weight. I seriously doubt he would want to put on that weight just so that he can fight someone like Cro Cop and then return to light heavyweight.
But there I guess he can make 220, I stand corrected….ish.
Is Machida really so small that he naturally weighs less than 206? I thought he looked pretty big against Tito.
by Michaelthebox on Jan 20, 2009 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
Awesome scenarios..
Well done Mr. Cupitt.
Cro Cop vs Machida would be a very interesting bout, it would definitely be a chess match but there could be backlash for those don’t appreciate what those guys are doing. I’d be happy to see Florian vs Sanchez or GSP vs Alves as well.
Big Nog against Cheick Kongo, that would be a true test to see if Big Nog has truly lost it or if the ailments he was suffering were the cause for his defeat against Frank Mir. Like Denis Kang and Shogun, I’m hoping that Big Nog’s best days aren’t behind him.
Tito back in the UFC? Is that really possible? I fail to see how the UFC really benefits by bringing him back again, I’d love to hear the reasoning behind that because its an idea that I just can’t grasp.
Well I guess Dana would just say I don’t believe he’s a great fighter but he took the UFC Light haevyweight champion to a draw just two fights ago, and he would have won that fight if he didn’t get penalized that point etc. etc.
He sells PPVs and can always work as a high profile match-up on a card that doesnt have a title on it.
And he likely would have lost had he not done what earned him the point deduction.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Jan 19, 2009 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
When he got penalized that point he got taken down anyway. And then he almost immediately tapped Evans with a guillotine choke.
I’m of the opinion the point deduction was bogus.
He stuffed more than one takedown by grabbing the fence not just the one he was penalized for.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Jan 19, 2009 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
The first one was a warning which was fine and then the one he got penalized for was just a complete non-event and had no impact on the takedown.
Hmm
Let’s not forget about Ortiz grabbing Rashad’s shorts on multiple occassions as well as the fence grabbing.
http://mma4real.net/
by Tha Realness on Jan 20, 2009 12:29 AM EST up reply actions
I see what you're saying about Ortiz..
but his “selling” of PPV’s is all in the past and can he honestly back up his shit talking anymore? Ideally, you’re absolutely right and Cro Cop vs Ortiz would be a great a match up…. but after that fight, then what?
I guess the one thing Tito has going for him that led him out of the UFC will ultimately lead him back in…. that being his mouth.
by Gunslinger20 on Jan 19, 2009 10:18 PM EST up reply actions
A CroCop/Machida fight makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. For Machida, a win over CroCop wouldn’t do anything for him as CroCop has fallen off like Big Mac toppings. I wouldn’t mind seeing CroCop/Ortiz though as both fighters are on the mends and would be an interesting match up. Plus I would love to see Ortiz eat a LHK and go nite nite.
http://mma4real.net/
Tito just doesn’t do it for me – although the idea of him getting LHK’ed by CC does please me. Has CC ever fought at 205, and if not, what’s his lightest?
by Derek Suboticki on Jan 19, 2009 10:27 PM EST reply actions
Oh
And Nog-Kongo would be sick. If Kongo wins it’d be hard to deny him his ‘tittle’ shot.
by Derek Suboticki on Jan 19, 2009 10:27 PM EST up reply actions
rampage doesnt get a title shot because he’s facing jardine. but does this rumor mean that now machida still wont get the title shot?? screw that.. they better put machida vs evans if they’re not giving it to page..
tito vs crocop seems interesting, but plsssssssssss dont put machida.. yes it would be an interesting matchup, but machida deserves a title shot.
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
i don't buy any of this because...
1. crocop hasn’t done anything in a cage and dana wouldn’t reward him for that
2. i like machida but his reputation for being a boring fighter isn’t going to generate any hype.
3. tito will never fight in the ufc again.
1. Dana wants him to come back eventually. Cro Cop and the UFC split amicably and he has since talked about wanting to return.
2. I doubt Machida’s boring reputation will precede his arrival in Germany. If anything, I think that an ad blitz for this fight would feature quite the highlight reel for him.
3. The possibility of Tito fighting in the UFC grows with each passing day that he is unsigned by other organizations whose futures negatively correlate with the passage of time.
by Rundownloser on Jan 20, 2009 12:56 AM EST up reply actions
Also
On the Machida angle Germany is still a huge boxing country. Boxing fans are more accustomed to watching somebody fight a strategic fight and be elusive. MMA fans seem to hate Machida’s style while most boxing fans i’ve seen think he’s a master in there making artwork.
Gimme 1 Round!
Which is weird, because I’m not a boxing fan but I love Machida. How does elusiveness get such a rap – and don’t say it’s because we’re stupid Americans, we have a new president now :-p
by Derek Suboticki on Jan 20, 2009 1:25 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If Machida would present a credible threat
of finishing fights, he’d be the most popular fighter in the UFC. He’s the complete package – minus the KO’s and subs at high level. And really, declarative finishes are a HUGE part of any combat sport.
Everyone prefers a pin to a decision in wrestling.
Everyone prefers a KO to a decision in boxing.
Everyone prefers a submission to a decision in grappling.
Now where people get confused, it seems, is they blend the above outlined desire for a display of dominance with the notion that all events should end in blowouts. That really would be shallow.
But all combat sports fans prefer to see one fighter declared the victor, with no doubts left in anyone’s mind. We are thrilled to see a back-and-forth affair between Rampage and Forrest, and we’d be even happier if it were finished by one fighter or the other.
Grinding out a win, based solely on ‘points’ without the credible threat of a declarative finish at some point in the contestis always going to draw the ire of sports fans.
All we want is the threat.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Jan 21, 2009 11:32 PM EST up reply actions
I know you’re a sophisticated fan, jonezy, and that is a fantastic argument – I like Machida but he is not my favorite, and definitive wins are preferable. But – and I imagine you already know this – all too many people only feel the way you feel because they want to see people get ZOMGKTFO, and I can safely say it’s a pretty narrow appreciation of the sport that only wants that kind of finish.
by Derek Suboticki on Jan 21, 2009 11:51 PM EST up reply actions
Absolutely correct
about many/most people wanting finishes simply for the vicarious enjoyment of ‘slaughter,’ or whatever other term you want to use for it. Spot on.
But I’ll say in defense of my position that I actually used to be like that when I was really young, and I imagine most people feel similarly at the beginning of their MMA fanhood. The initial reaction to this sport is “Holy hell! Did you see how vicious that was!?! This is some wicked stuff!!!” This is mostly due to our acceptance of boxing as a civilized style of combat sport, and basically everything MMA is about is outlawed in boxing. After watching a dozen or so MMA cards, maybe even a half dozen, many of us begin to learn to appreciate the experience for the competitive sport it is, and much less for the spectacle that had initially snatched our attention.
I do think there are some people who simply never will appreciate a technical fight. These people are fight fans, just like the rest of us, but they don’t watch/participate for the same reasons we do. Being a wrestler, I thoroughly enjoy watching a fight and considering how it will play out technically and tactically, especially from the positional perspective. Many people don’t care for that..they’re just waiting for the ZOMGKTFO, as you say. However, I do believe that the percentage of the audience who only values this aspect, and will never learn to appreciate the more technical aspects of MMA, is minor. It’s a small group. But most new fans start off with absolutely zero clue of the technical components at work, and since MMA is growing so darned fast, it makes it seem that most fans only want the slaughter component.
Get people to watch a few cards, especially if there’s a well-educated fan like yourself sitting next to them, and they’re hooked on the technical aspects. Blood and brutality become small (almost tactical) components of the overall experience at that point.
Great point, subo.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Jan 22, 2009 12:15 AM EST up reply actions
tuf noobs like us dont read long comments.. we just want blood! haha. :)
(im kidding, i never even watched tuf.. except for a few nover fights.. haha)
thats why mma fans are split in two.. you either like machida or you hate him.. It just happens that those who hate him are mostly those bloodthirsty i-wanna-see-murder-in-a-cage fans.. and the tito die hards.. im looking at you lovingmma25. :)
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Jan 22, 2009 12:31 AM EST up reply actions
You called me out!
Ok, you got me. But in my defense I have really tried to like Machida, really. I know he has to potential and ability to finish fights it seems that he just chooses not too.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Jan 22, 2009 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
One more thing
does anyone else get annoyed with the 20 fakes (I’m going in, nah, fooled ya – no really I am going in, nah, not yet) he does in every round.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Jan 22, 2009 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
The people he fights, who then get pissed and attack, and he punches them in the face.
And no, I am not annoyed with them, I actually enjoy them a lot.
New Nickname:
Lyoto “Tantric” Machida.
by Rundownloser on Jan 22, 2009 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
Sounds like what Joe was saying in Machida’s fight with Soko – that fighters get mesmerized or something like that – perhaps Machida is a snake charmer or shall I say fight charmer.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
Thank you, sir
The thing about MMA that attracted me to it is the freedom to choose a style, implement it, and let the results speak for themselves. Others for blood, others for Brock, others for God knows what else – but I welcome them all. I will say introducing fans to, say, a Rampage-Wanderlei III is a little easier than Palhares-Horn, but the sport is still in its infancy. To use an (American) football analogy, right now people only care about the deep passing game, but the work in the trenches is what decides games, and time + saturation will = a deeper appreciation of MMA.
by Derek Suboticki on Jan 22, 2009 1:01 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Awesome football analogy. Rec'd.
I couldn’t come up with that one..I sat here thinking run vs. pass vs. secondary coverage and LB deployment…couldn’t come up with (what seems obvious, now) trench-work.
After watching NFL games for about two years, I started to pay attention to salary deployment to the various positions, and like most n00b fans, I was stunned at how much the O-line gets paid. So naturally I started watching those guys, to figure out why they got compensated so far above the other positions, and with that interest came a truly deeper appreciation of the entire game.
The thing I think most of us hardcore fans really need to remember, is that every new UFC’s audience is comprised of a significant portion of uninitiated fans. Davis-Lytle is a perfect way to introduce some of these fans to MMA, simply to get their attention. And Goldberg/Rogan presented the situation perfectly for a n00b fan to understand that the fight could go to the ground, if either fighter wanted it to.
So long as we keep it to one, or maximum two main card fights per event, I’m just fine with keeping the Stand ’n Bang matches in the mainstream.
It is absolutely imperative that every UFC event prove n00b-friendly to a minimum extent, and I think Zuffa has done a wonderful job of finding that fine line and balancing it with the other aspects of a successful MMA production.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Jan 22, 2009 2:15 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I am with you Realness.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Jan 20, 2009 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
cro cop is only a headliner for smaller...
promotions. i’m so over him, what is pete williams, mark kerr, kevin randleman not available?
when were you under him? :)
http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/
by Anton Tabuena on Jan 20, 2009 2:30 AM EST up reply actions
Ortiz and Crocop would do well in Deutchland.
Mirko is still a big name over there. While he’s a shell of his former self, he’s not completely washed up and I think Tito would be a a pretty even matchup.
I know Dana hates Tito, but it’s about the almighty dollar and Tito is marketable. Plus how much would you pay to see Tito headkicked to sleep? I would pay a lot.
Don’t really want to see that but bring back Tim Sylvia to take on Overeem in Germany – that’d be pretty good.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
by lovingmma25 on Jan 20, 2009 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry
You said tim Sylvia right? something about that name makes me fall asleep.
Do you think Overeem would allow a fight with Tim Sylvia to be boring? I would also say, throw Tim in their with Semmy.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
Cro Cop/Ortiz is much more appealing to me than Cro Cop/Machida. What’s the point of having Machida move up a weight class when he should/could be fighting Jardine, Liddell, Rua, Wandy Silva, Jackson or god forbid a title shot against Evans?
Ortiz is a perfect matchup for a guy like Cro Cop, assuming he can return to the sprawl ‘n’ brawl show he used to put on a couple years ago.
When is UFC 99 going to be, actually? Early June?
Good luck trying to get Penn to fight there, regardless of GSP-Penn II results. We all know The Prodigy needs at least six months between fights.
by Monday Morning Martial Artist on Jan 21, 2009 2:58 AM EST reply actions
Cro Cop could face Coleman too, apparently. I think that fight would be great for Cro Cop, though that really seals the deal for Coleman. LHKFTW.
I don’t want to see Coleman fight CroCop – why can’t they give him Reese Andy?
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
Cause Reese Andy would beat Coleman too.
by Rundownloser on Jan 21, 2009 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
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