BJ Penn's Trainer Calls Dana White a "Drama King"
by Luke Thomas on Jan 15, 2009 3:12 PM EST
in MMA News
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PrintUFC Primetime tried to insert what the BJ Penn camp unequivocally calls a non-issue. That is, there is a storyline being pursued that suggests Penn is taking a vacation in the middle of his training camp thereby somehow indicating Penn isn't taking the fight seriously or won't be properly prepared. Penn's head trainer, Rudy Valentino, says it's all rubbish. To wit:
“Dana White was making a big deal out of nothing,” Valentino tells InsideFighting.
...“He makes it out to be that [BJ] is on vacation, not training and not taking [the fight] seriously. This fight is the most serious fight of all time. We’re not playing around…We’ve got a good training camp here,” Valentino assures. “I saw that and I laughed because we know what we are doing.”
Valentino says that he has never heard of White calling to check up on one of Penn’s previous training camps and suspects that it was done this time around in order to generate additional drama for the Prime Time show. “[Dana] will pull out drama in anything he does. He’s not a drama queen, he’s a drama king,” Valentino says.
Valentino says that Penn’s scheduled rest time occurred last week “Tuesday through Saturday,”* after Penn had already been training for three consecutive months. Without that time off Penn would have been on schedule to walk into UFC 94 after an approximately five month training camp without pause - entirely too long by anyone’s standards.
“[Dana] didn’t understand what we have to do. Dana doesn’t understand because he’s not a fighter. We don’t want [BJ] burning out or peaking at the wrong time,” Valentino says, also noting that Penn has employed a similar rest period before his last six to seven fights.
“It’s not a vacation,” he says. “Its just a rest period to recuperate the body and get more focused on the fight.”
I'm aware of several other fighters with long training camps will often take very brief sabbaticals like this for whatever reasons they feel are important. I don't think time off works for every fighter, but certainly helps some. If it's true that BJ has been training for this many months then a few days off is of zero significance and probably beneficial by any reasonable standard.
For my tastes, I'd like to see deeper looks into the fighters themselves, their rivalry, their similarities, their differences and their first fight than any manufactured storyline. The UFC is spending too much money on this series to be manufacturing stories out of whole cloth promoting non-issues.
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Georges, I’m going to go to the death. I’m going to try to kill you, and I’m not joking about this.
Is this a more acceptable type of drama for Valentino?
Did you know we are in high demand, Laura?
by Eugene Schelfaut on Jan 15, 2009 1:48 PM EST reply actions
Honestly, these shows are entirely about the drama and storylines for more casual fans to sell the show. Everyone knows it just sets up a hook, and then in the last 2 weeks BJ will be training harder than ever and things will turn around. It’s a classic TV cliffhanger, needed for people that aren’t hardcores that will watch anything MMA related.
I mean, I get all that. I just think that format is not necessary to stick to for success, to say nothing of how tired and boring that is. I have no doubt that format can and will for the UFC, but I don’t think it’s the only path to success. The truth is that there is plenty of drama to milk from this fight and plenty of storyline that can be persued without being so hand-in-glove.
I would agree.
Did you know we are in high demand, Laura?
by Eugene Schelfaut on Jan 15, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
I think this is just bubble syndrome. I watched with a casual fan who loved it, and the vast majority will come back and watch again to see what’s next. It’s episodic television. The goal isn’t to bring in people that know everything about breaks before fights, the goal is to bring in others and make them watch week to week. You look at 24/7 and it is just filled with this kind of stuff. Mayweather’s family stuff, Manny and his wife, etc. Storylines have been and always will be used to sell big fights.
by Michael Rome on Jan 15, 2009 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
But there is storyline already built in. I get that creating suspense and cliff hangers bring people back, but the call between Penn and White looked staged and the series doesn’t need overly injected spectacles like that. Not every storyline has to border on soap opera territory. There is plenty to work with to bring people back that already organically exists. It needs to be tweaked and exploited, sure, but to think that the UFC had to introduce something so artificial to keep coming back I think sells the audience short. A storyline doesn’t have to be juxtaposed in, it can be organically developed, too. To me, this one is amateurish and not befitting of something as good as this show can be.
Is there utility? Sure, but that’s not enough for me.
As you point out, the show is young and maybe will develop, but the “Is BJ training hard” angle is always the question when it comes to a BJ Penn fight. Now they are laying that out for the casual fan. Being a hardcore fan we all know the story line, but they are trying to get new buys and build mega stars out of there stars. It was well done/
I have to agree with Luke here. ‘Episodic television’ is necessary to bring back viewers. The feud between these two men and the training they are each going through is enough of a storyline to continue a three part series. The contrived drama about BJ’s training added an element to the show but it was an unnecessary element. Did any casual fan who watched see that part and say, “I wasn’t going to watch this next week but now that this guy is getting shit for going on vacation, I’m definitely tuning in.” I think not.
Seriously, it would seem there is enough real-life drama to this fight that Dana should not have to resort to working WWE-style angles to sex it up.
especially Manswers
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
The only thing that was questionable was them editing it to make it look like the vacation was early this week.
As far as why Dana called this time around, that is pretty obvious: He had an entire crew that could tell him what BJ was doing. That is not something that happened in the past.
Prior to the GSP or Hughes fight (I can’t remember which), BJ took a week off ONE WEEK BEFORE THE FIGHT. Had Dana known, I bet he would have called him on it,
As Romey said, 24/7 has done plenty of this.
I agree
Penn is doing the same as he has been all along. It seems to me that there has always been some tension between the two. Does anyone know of a feud between the two?
i must be the minority
because I thought it was good entertainment! The Dana getting his call rejected by BJ, F*cking hilarious I thought
all you gotta do is...
Don't get me wrong.
I thought the program was ran well also. I was just saying that I think that Penn is right where he needs to be.
I thought the whole thing was kind of humorous. It didn’t take up much time, and may have appealed to less engaged fans. Personally, I wouldn’t want to see the dispute dominate an entire show, but I don’t believe that it’s hurt the show’s appeal for me. I just need to see how the rest of the series plays out. The sum of the first episode was pretty strong in my opinion.
by Cannon Jacques on Jan 15, 2009 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
How about Penn leaving the UFC as LW champ to go to K-1 and ruining the UFC LW division for years? :)
I think there’s a little over-analyzing going on. It’s TV and they’re going to try and insert as much “drama” as they can. And an important points already been made, this series is made to draw more people in to buy the PPV, not us folk who were likely buying it regardless. I thought it was pretty good.
The notion that television has to have some sort of drama – manufactured or otherwise – is the one of the biggest fallacies ever peddled. It’s simply not true. I don’t deny that it works, but to think it’s all that works is simply not true.
by Luke Thomas on Jan 15, 2009 3:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Do you have a better three part series idea to build the drama to peek in the third part and guarantee that it plays out to minimize the risk of a new series that they have been pushing to get created. It was the safe play and the right call IMO. Let say for a second that they play an angle that is real drama. They talk a lot about What? and show older footage of training? I mean if this vacation was late last week and early this week then they are not giving a lot of time to film to try to get footage to build the story line.
I don’t disagree with you in the least that “drama”, in this case, wasn’t necessary. But I don’t really think that it hurts the series either. I just think an inordinate amount of time is spent discussing a part of the show that didn’t really stand out for me. The whole thing, including the response by Rudy today, feels contrived.
Well said, Luke.
It’s like there’s no desire to take risks in television any more. A couple of genre shows blended drama and content really well in the last couple of decades, so now EVERYTHING on television has to be absolutely gorged with drama.
It can be helpful, and if deployed correctly (and sparsely) it can provide entertainment benefit to pretty much any television. But it is not required for success.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Jan 15, 2009 10:56 PM EST up reply actions
It's not exactly out of thin air
In their first fight BJ Penn gassed out by the 3rd round. I think that the attention to Penn’s inactivity during training is being pursued as a story line that was started from their first meeting.
"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"
Dana better watch what he says..B.J. will leave and go fight outside of the UFC. He has done it before. He could crush Shinya Aoki who just recently called him out. Not to mention B.J. is insane and he could go up to heavyweight and fight the King Fedor lol.
I like Dana White but what a fighter does before a fight is there business. If B.J. doesn’t show up fight night in shape and gets destroyed then Dana can bitch and take action until then he needs to get his nose out there camp and mind his fucking business. B.J. look in better shape then i had ever seen him. Looked Big as well. Nobody is gonna look like GSP but GSP. dude is a freak
"If I wanted to spend a half hour between two hairy legs I'd go to your mother's house." -Don Frye
BJ isn’t leaving the UFC this is reality show drama, both Dana and BJ are masters of this crap, hell it probably was all planned ahead of time between the two of them.
riddle me this?
Am i mistaking was i watching a episode of TUF last night? No it was a pre-fight showcase to build the fight. And what better way to build up the fight and the anticipation then say that one of the fighters who has a history of this is slacking off and isn’t taking it seriously. I don’t know about you but knowing one fighter is coming in half ass sure as hell makes me wanna see it that much more….
"If I wanted to spend a half hour between two hairy legs I'd go to your mother's house." -Don Frye
So you are agreeing that it was quite possilbly an cheap trick to build up drama and interest in the show and the fight?
umm No how the fuck is saying one person is coming into this fight out of shape hyping the fight???? that discredits the fight if anything
"If I wanted to spend a half hour between two hairy legs I'd go to your mother's house." -Don Frye
It’s hyping another potential angle of this fight, will BJ be in top shape or not. It’s also a huge drama to get people to watch the other parts of the show to see how he looks closer to the fight. Lets not act like they are saying Penn isn’t training at all here they are just adding another dramatic angle to the show to get fan attention.
It calls into question Penn's work ethic,
which at least historically has been a big-time no-no for the fight fan culture. We like the ‘underdog’ (the guy who has lesser tools available to him) to be able to overcome the odds via hard work.
We absolutely despise people sitting back on their talent and not pressing as hard as they possibly can (like with Klitschko, or Lennox Lewis).
It’s a tried-and-true method of creating emotional investment in the fight, one way or the other. But there are limits to how much should be applied, and it seems like the UFC is heading in the direction of introducing too much drama, rather than simply sculpting what is already there.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Jan 15, 2009 11:00 PM EST up reply actions
Penn’s work ethic has always been one of the things people talk about the most when he comes up. Lets face it your talking about liking the underdog, well that isn’t the role BJ Penn plays, his idea of pimping a fight is making a death threat against his opponent, he is in the cocky bad boy role here and being a cocky bad boy goes with being so confident that you take a vacation weeks before a fight.
Assuming you don’t think it was staged, it certainly IS Dana’s business.
He allowed BJ to move up a weight class and fight for a title without being the top contender. He’s put 2 weight classes on hold in the process. He also shelled out nearly $2mil for this Primetime series. When he hears from the camera crew that they’re going to pack up and head across the island for 5 days, he’s got the right to call and see why, especially when the guy taking that break 3 weeks before fight day is known for not training hard in the past.
If BJ was truly needing a break to give his body a rest, then JD Penn wouldn’t have been extremely evasive during the call with Dana, and wouldn’t have made things up and try to deny the trip they were taking.
Assuming it wasn’t staged…
Then can you blame Dana not being somewhat worried when he hears through the grapevine that BJ is taking a vacation right before the fight? Considering BJ’s past?
Once again, assuming this wasn’t staged and Dana heard this through the grapevine without hearing any of the peaking stuff.
Well, I think that I’d agree with you (Luke) if the call between JD and White went down differently. I imagine that it is a little exaggerated, but it’s not like JD was perfectly straight with White either. He did hedge and weasel a bit while talking to White, which hardly plays well. I wouldn’t be surprised if the editing helped that along, but I don’t think that the story was exaggerated beyond reason, especially given BJ’s track record.
Penn has to gain weight for this fight, right? How does that effect a training camp /cardio training etc?
Surely that’s a factor here. He’s a more natural 155’r. I would expect he has to lose some speed here. So, his boxing won’t be as crisp as it would be at 155. Has to be factor.
I’m not so sure he’ll show up much bigger to the fight than he did for the Sherk fight. I think he was around 160-165 by fight time, and considering he’s aiming for a certain percentage of body fat rather than weight, I figure he might be significantly smaller than GSP.
by Rundownloser on Jan 15, 2009 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
you think? GSP is a Huge Welterweight. He cuts around 20 pounds from his walk around weight. B.J. will easily be the smaller guy in this fight regardless of how much he puts on.
"If I wanted to spend a half hour between two hairy legs I'd go to your mother's house." -Don Frye
I mean even smaller than he would be if he tried to get to 170 or above.
by Rundownloser on Jan 15, 2009 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
No alves isnt a WW period thats just what they call him :P I just think its funny Brock catches so much shit cause he cuts like 15 pounds to make heavy when there are so many more guys who cut more to fight in a lower weight class.
"If I wanted to spend a half hour between two hairy legs I'd go to your mother's house." -Don Frye
I don’t think he “catches shit” for cutting weight; people have pointed out the problems that exist when you have a weight class that’s about 60 pounds wide, resulting in Brock ending up with a HUGE size advantage over someone in the same weight class. Most people who have a problem with this (I’m not really one of them) are upset over the divisions, not over the fact that Brock cuts down. He’s not the first fighter who has to do that to reach the HW cut off.
"I'm AJB and I endorse this nut-puncher."
GSP isn’t going to shadow box with Penn for 3 rounds, BJ better be in the gym everyday because the last thing I want to hear is more excuses coming from his fans after he gets wrecked at UFC 94.
What was manufactured exactly???
Did Bj Penn take a vacation about 3 weeks before his fight…. Yes – this wasn’t manufactured.
Did the film crew tell Dana about it? Yes.
Did Dana Call BJ to see if this was true… Yes.
So tell me exactly what was manufactured?
Dana never called BJ before because he never had a film crew following his ass and calling him saying the guy is on vacation and wants his privacy, what do you want us to film…
I agree in every fight there are real hooks to be exploited… this was a “real” hook.
by mmalogic on Jan 15, 2009 4:27 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Somebody who gets it. Not everything is a conspiracy. Penn actually went on a vacation, 3 weeks from fight night. Whether he needed it or not is open for debate. For those saying he looks in phenomenal shape, I’d say that’s open for debate. Dana found out about this vacation precisely because he had a camera crew in Hawaii who informed Dana they’d be going across the island for the next 5 days.
If anything was staged, it was the phone call but I’m willing to admit it may not have been. The problem for me is that Penn’s camp is saying BJ has been training for nearly 5 months. 5 days off in the course of 5 months is perfectly acceptable and has nothing to do with Penn’s history pre-Penn vs. Hughes 2 of slacking or not taking the fight seriously in training. Perhaps Dana is right and Penn’s handlers and trainers are his Yes Men, but that angle appears to be focusing on a non-issue for purposes of promoting a storyline.
I mean, are we really going to suggest everything in that exchange between JD and Dana and Spike’s decision to focus in on the training angle is luck? If it’s a non-issue, why bother with it? There is so much to unpack here between these two that it seems perfunctory to me.
The most compelling content of the entire show, to my mind, was GSP’s garbage man story. That was actually real and relevant.
I think the coverage of the phone conversation was perfunctory because the shows are so short (23 minutes is too short, IMO, but I am greedy).
Maybe Penn needed the rest. I don’t buy that he’s trained “non-stop” for 5 months, given his trips to UFC 91 to hype the fight, the press tour that ventured into Canada and back to Hawaii, etc. If Penn’s body is so beat down 3 weeks out, then maybe his yes-men trainers and handlers aren’t scheduling his training camp right.
+1 on the GSP garbage man story. The guy worked 3 jobs simultaneously in order to keep his dream alive. GSP’s background story made Penn look and sound like a complete tool by ripping on GSP.
were things (phone calls) maneuvered because this is being filmed? yes…
Taking a vacation 3 weeks before fight night is relevant though… its even more relevant because who we are talking about.
BJ doesnt have a history in being the best prepared fighter.
In all honesty with some of things he was saying at the press conferences I was concerned that he was over training… So maybe the rest was a good idea.
Lets see fight night – if he gasses now everyone can point to the cause :)
I agree the grabage man story was compelling – and more should be focused on the gold nuggets that would be the highlights of a fighters biagrophy .
But you need a mixture of both.
I couldn’t agree more about the GSP garbage man story. It’s really interesting: I’ve never been a fan of GSP, really. Sure, I liked watching him fight and thought that he seemed like a good person, but I never really cared if he won or not. After that show, I can really say that I am much more interested in his career and for the first time, I’m kinda sad that somebody has to lose this.
I think that is a pretty good standard to measure the show by (not to imply that you were disputing that).
by Rundownloser on Jan 15, 2009 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
And I realize I’m nitpicking, but I stated before I think the show is quite excellent. Let me reiterate that.
And even if he was a troll, his gifs would be enough to forgive him.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Jan 15, 2009 10:35 PM EST up reply actions
Why do I always agree with you?
Did you know we are in high demand, Laura?
by Eugene Schelfaut on Jan 16, 2009 8:24 AM EST up reply actions
It’s because I’m always right.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Jan 16, 2009 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
to rudy valentino
we all know how bad ass bj is
just the fact you have even noted gsp is dealing with experts for his way of working his mind is simply stupid
ya bj in hilo was the bad ass kick ass one but i have heard more than enouhg out of his mouth tha he has never backed up.
lil evil bj said he would break an arm, pulver as good as he was is a 145lb man, bj with his head up his ass his ego all the talent he has is not a 170 lb man.
bj has never proven any striking power unless it lands the perfect shot like serra did who has more power BJ will not knock gsp out. BJ say with gsp on his back he will impose his will or when he is on gsp back he will impose his will.
the best wrestlers in 170 lbs coould not put gsp an his back and in turn he did such with ease.
in pure sense bj may be a better fighter in hilo. he talks so much shit before a fight that some would think he is the one with a week mind as he has to call people out, say he going to break an arm, kill bla bla and never does.
either way this is waht mma needs. im my opinion bj does not derserve the 170 shot and anyone who thinks gsp is week in the mind think again as im sure he could have declined andkept his place in the ufc.
bj talking gsp is a quiter is a joke, bj beat gsp up good the frist time and then gsp out worked BJ. Look at what gsp with did to finch who was as big or bigger and who was bjwhould have had to fight before this
GSP has a better camp, he trains with those much bigger those top notch and he walks in without all the bullshit the talk as bj needs to take care of business
I dont want to see gsp knock out, or tko or submit BJ. I want to see GSP beat BJ round by round for 5 rounds
rudy train bj and keep your mouth out of the hype as BJ always opens his never does what he says and lets see if he does not get slapped around
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