A Closer Look at Alistair Overeem's Physique in Recent Fights
by SamCupitt on Jan 1, 2009 10:00 PM EST
55 comments
Ok let's straight off into this.
Above are two sets of pictures. The top one features pictures from the weigh in and the post fight of the Overeem vs. Buentello that was for the vacant Strikeforce heavyweight title.
It was Overeem's first fight in the US as a heavyweight as far as my knowledge takes me as before that he had spent the majority of his career as a light heavyweight.
For the bout he came in at 6 ft. 5in. and 224 lbs. while his opponent, Buentello, came in at 6 ft. 2 in. tall and 250 lbs..
Overeem was successful in that fight via submission (due to knees to the body) in the second round.
After that fight he returned to Japan, again as a heavyweight. The bottom of the two pictures shows off Overeem in two fights, the left of which being his most recent K-1 outing against Badr Hari and the right being his most recent MMA bout against Mirko Cro Cop.
For the DREAM 6 bout against Cro Cop, Overeem came in at 241.8 lbs. while his opponent came in at 6 ft. 2 in. and 225.9 lbs.
For the K-1 Dynamite show, Overeem came in at 253.4 lbs. while his opponent did not weigh in (however, for the K-1 Grand Prix, Hari was around the 210 lbs. mark).
I have my own judgements on the differences between the pictures and the various weights but I'll let the rest of you discuss it.
Also, if anyone has any better pictures of Overeem from his fights in Japan that'd be much appreciated.
UPDATE: For all those feeling ambushed by the page title, here be a changed title. Please resume your flaming :-)
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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Honestly...
I don’t know enough about the guy to make a decision but I’ll be bummed if it is juicing. He looked like a real big 205 when he fought in Pride, some guys look like they really have to cut weight to make it and he appeared to me to possibly have those issues.
Some posters will say that he is definitely juicing. I’ve seen guys get that big naturally with a lot of hard work and discipline…. I don’t know Overeem personally to know what is the case. Until they test him and it proves that he is guilty, I will give him the benefit of the doubt.
FYI… Barry Bonds was a HGH issue. HGH and steroids are not the same thing.
by Gunslinger20 on Jan 1, 2009 10:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The title is kind of misleading, I thought you were actually going to discuss the fights. Way to heavily imply that he is juicing and then not have the stones to actually accuse him. Its pretty sad how some people want to take away his victory with no evidence whatsoever to back it up. Do you really think he is the first fighter to ever bulk up relatively early in his career? Hell, Mousasi just jumped 31lbs from his last fight, is he a suspect too?
by smoogy on Jan 1, 2009 10:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'd throw it around too
But more because he’s super deuchey than any form of proof. Slander rules. Though technically its libel on the intraweb.
I do find his current jawline is suspect (from that picture) compared to his other pics. I honestly believe a large number of fighters do roid; though much of the time its not to gain competitive advantage, but instead to train through an injury that would otherwise prevent them from competing. The Hermes Franca case as example. I love Mirko but with how beat up his body is I now find it hard to believe that just in 2004 he fought 8 times without sustaining any nagging injuries. Then repeated that amazing pace with 5 fights in 05 and 4 fights in the second half of 2006 after 6 months off. I think this would be a more accurate representation of steroid use in MMA.
by skwirrl on Jan 1, 2009 10:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Excellent comments!
I don’t understand the purpose of this entire post other than to paint a negative picture of Overeem’s accomplishments for the 14 or 15 months since his move to heavyweight. It’s like someone wanting to accuse him of being a steroid user without actually accusing him.
by tylerdurden1 on Jan 2, 2009 12:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You three should do lunch sometime
Maybe call MMASupremacy and bitch about the superiority of the UFC. It’ll be like Sex And The City.
I’m too tired to hang out and make this a thing tonight, but let me defend the writer of the post with a simple ‘Ha’. He forgot the cardinal rule with you guys: Zuffa = Bad, non-Zuffa = Good (even if the fighter consistently chooses to fight in a league that does not test for PEDs and has gained 30+ pounds of muscle since leaving the country to fight there).
by subo on Jan 2, 2009 2:35 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You’re a clown. Nobody here is talking about UFC or anti-UFC stuff. Take your obsession to a more relevant thread.
by smoogy on Jan 2, 2009 3:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Watch the name-calling.
Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
by Richard Wade on Jan 2, 2009 9:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would agree with Smoogy’s assessment of the situation. If that gets me warned too so be it
Gimme 1 Round!
by skwirrl on Jan 3, 2009 4:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He has packed on a lot of muscle in five years i dont think he is juicing he would have been caught by now and if he is he will be found out soon enough
by RealIrish on Jan 1, 2009 10:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Caught by?
Only the Strikeforce fight was one with any chance of getting popped as far as I can tell…
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 1, 2009 10:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Another great Sherdo..Bloody Elbow Fanpost!
by Simco on Jan 2, 2009 1:27 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I gotta ask this...
Despite the ridicule I’m set to face, I’m going to ask this…
Overeem now vs Lesnar, who takes that?
by Gunslinger20 on Jan 2, 2009 1:30 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Why put your hand on the stove when you know it's gonna get burned?
Lesnar by murder, man!
by subo on Jan 2, 2009 2:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Lesnar
..if I had to pick. I just feel that I’d pick him over a number of guys without great jits by virtue of his superior control and GNP. But I’d love to see it and I hope Alistair signs with the UFC. He’s been improving rapidly over the last 18 months.
by Blackout612 on Jan 2, 2009 6:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well I guess I did a pretty piss poor job of keeping my bias out of this, as I do think he’s juicing but I just thought I’d throw out some numbers of his last fights as well as some pictures.
Also the post title was done out of rushing to think of a post title before I had to go out.
I do think Overeem is a supreme douche but it’s not that I want to see him juicing, I’ll be as happy as anyone if he isn’t. I’d like to know that someone can reach the level of fighting that he is currently, just that the supreme rise in weight and change in physique has raised my eyebrow (the left one… I can’t raise my right one).
by SamCupitt on Jan 2, 2009 2:05 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
If you don’t believe a young, 6’5" athlete can go from walking around in the 220s to coming in at 250 over the course of 5+ years, then I suspect you might be one of those people who has never done anything athletic in their life. And speaking of douches, you would really have to be one to smear a fighting immediately after a huge victory because of some faulty math and a bunch of piss poor photo comparisons.
by smoogy on Jan 2, 2009 2:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you feel the same way about Nick Thomas’ post above? Piss poor photo comparison?
If you choose to fight in a league that does not test for PEDs, the suspicion will always, always be there. It’s yet another reason Zuffa rules – they’re not perfect and I know they don’t get everyone, but damnit, they get some people sometimes, and that beats nothing.
by subo on Jan 2, 2009 2:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The purpose of this fan post was to provide some photographs and statistics to the many commenters in many BE posts who have openly questioned Overeem’s change in physique since his move back to Japan. Including me.
I got the best photos I could find from my time searching and some numbers from searching through some archives. All I got were his weight from three different fights along with some pictures from those fights.
Commenters throughout this site have questioned the change, so I gave them some photographs that could help them reach a more conclusive OPINION. I also asked people to find some more pictures as I specified these weren’t the best pictuers out there.
Overeem has never been caught for juicing in the past, he is however fighting in Japan now where there is no testing. So a leap of 20-30 pounds between fighting in a drug tetsed Strikeforce show to untested Japan show leaves a window of doubt there that has room for both the people who this is suspicious (me) or the people who think he’s just filling his athletic potential (you).
If this were another Sean Sherk situation where he had been fighing in sanctioned places all the time and people had been accusing of him of juicing all the time then this fanpost wouldnt have existed. But it isn’t, so this fan post does.
Just accept most of these for opinions and not slander on the athletic ability of the athletes in this sport.
by SamCupitt on Jan 2, 2009 2:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He didnt go from 220 to 250 in 5 years…
He went from 220 to 250 in about 1 year.
The tooth fairy ain’t real either…
by mmalogic on Jan 2, 2009 7:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Athletes routinely cut 30 lbs in a 3 month period. Athletes routinely move up and down in weight. An athlete gains 30 lbs of muscle in a year? It must be steroid, right?
by cyph on Jan 2, 2009 1:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
water weight is way different than lean muscle mass…
by mmalogic on Jan 2, 2009 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It doesn’t matter. Are you saying no athlete can possibly gain 30 lbs of muscle mass in a year? Hell, I can gain 30 lbs in a year if I start working out and eating well. I won’t look like him, but most people wouldn’t either.
by cyph on Jan 2, 2009 1:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And lets ignore the fact that Overeem pre-cut was as heavy as 230+ when he was still fighting at LHW years ago. People point to his Strikeforce weight like its unfathomable the guy might have come in lean so he would be quicker vs. a lethargic Paul Buentello.
Its a complete witch hunt and the people making the accusations have nothing to back them up.
by smoogy on Jan 2, 2009 3:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dude…get real. Look at his head size difference for starters. People heads don’t grow like that naturally. The naivety around here when it comes to performance enhancing drugs is hilarious.
by lbk on Jan 2, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You mean look at the difference in that joke of a photo comparison? That doesn’t prove shit. Certainly not enough to be making such loaded accusations.
by smoogy on Jan 2, 2009 4:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
People who say Overeem doesnt juice have nothing to back up their claim as well… because dream doesnt test.
by mmalogic on Jan 3, 2009 2:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Someone getting off the couch who has never worked out in their life gaining 30lbs of muscle mass in a year is incredible but possible…
An athlete who has been training for years to all of sudden in 1 year gain 30lbs of lean muscle is on something.
Not to mention that there’s cardio work to MMA training – You know how difficult it is to gain that much lean muscle mass with cardio work?
by mmalogic on Jan 3, 2009 2:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed @ smoogy, misleading title and i dont get the value in dropping this shit and then not formulating your own fucking opinion. it is possible to gain the amount of mass alistair has over the last year, good genes, hard work and dedication. and its not all lean mass either, look at his face. sick of this shit, appreciate the guy for being a dope fighter, not supposedly taking dope.
by Marcus213 on Jan 2, 2009 5:23 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Going from 224 to 253 in a year and keeping an awesome physique…either the guy is using some nice shit that is probably illegal, or he should quit fighting and start selling videos and books of his amazing body sculpting technique.
by iiowyn on Jan 2, 2009 11:47 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Gegard Mousasi just added 31lbs to his frame in a matter of a couple months. By your logic, he must be on some rocket fuel shit.
by smoogy on Jan 2, 2009 3:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Complete misrepresentation of the facts. Gegard cut plenty of water and probably a little muscle to make 185 against Jacare, three months ago. He has said before that he also plans to fight at LHW or maybe even to go there permanently, so he probably cut from 200+. He could easily have been cutting from 200+ to make 185. Franklin’s walk around weight was 215 when he was fighting at 185.
In reality, Mousasi likely gained about 10 pounds in a little over three months on a skinny frame. Still a significant jump, but much easier to understand than 30 pounds over a year turning a somewhat skinny frame into a muscle-bound behemoth.
by Michaelthebox on Jan 2, 2009 3:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So 10lbs in three months is no sweat, but 26lbs over 13 months for a guy who was always cutting like a madmen to make 205 is unreasonable? Both of them are young, its not like they had already peaked physically and then just jumped up a level.
by smoogy on Jan 2, 2009 4:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why do you continue to misrepresent people’s arguments? I did not say 10 pounds in three months was no sweat. I said it was still a significant jump, but easier to understand. I can and have gained ten pounds over a few months, but gaining thirty pounds over a year would be extremely difficult and likely leave me with a lot of fat weight, none of which Alistair has.
Its not impossible that Alistair gained it naturally. Its also not impossible that he’s roided out of his gills. So why jump all over the people who suspect, without at least giving a quality counterargument, as Leland is doing?
by Michaelthebox on Jan 2, 2009 4:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Both of you are also assuming Mousasi didnt juice either… remember nobody gets tested in these shows.
by mmalogic on Jan 3, 2009 2:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
30lbs might be possible if you never touched a weight and were a bean pole and started creatine, protein, prohormone, insulin injections and did nothing but work out, then its possible. for a lifelong athlete who obviously has very low body fat and water weight due to his insanely ripped physique i say impossible and hes using something illegal in the United States but creatine is illegal in Canada so who knows. did nobody ever wonder why some of the stars of Pride looked a little smaller, softer, slower and less aggressive when they started fighting under the testing in the UFC.
by #5mmafan on Jan 3, 2009 11:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Listen man, there are professional bodybuilders that openly take steroids that aren’t gaining 30 + lbs of muscle in a year. Do you realize how insane a transformation that is naturally let alone on steroids?
by lbk on Jan 2, 2009 8:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Check out Tim Ferris’s little workout deal on his website, fourhourworkweek.com. The guy is a certified genius, so it isn’t a surprise he figured some things out before working out, but it’s possible for smaller guys with good genes, etc, to gain over 30 pounds of muscle in a month. Ferris did it with a high protein diet and failure sets with circuits.
That’s just an example of the potential. Overeem would likely have needed the whole year for being at a bigger starting weight. It’s possible though, very possible, now that I’ve looked.
Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com
by Leland Roling on Jan 2, 2009 4:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That dewd in your profile pic looks like he is on roids!
by smoogy on Jan 2, 2009 4:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL @ 30 lbs of muscle in a month. Wow. I have heard it all.
by lbk on Jan 2, 2009 8:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
People that think Overeem is natural are the same ones that think guys like Bonds are clean.
End of story.
by lbk on Jan 2, 2009 1:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
People who don’t know anything about physiology, training or nutrition yet feel compelled to talk about those subjects are the same ones who think their keyboard goes to waste if they aren’t posting on the internet somewhere.
End of story.
by Simco on Jan 2, 2009 4:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Please explain his head size. Please. I’m all ears.
by lbk on Jan 2, 2009 8:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve heard the NSCA is actually replacing drug tests with head and jaw measurements.
by Simco on Jan 3, 2009 11:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
When it suites your argument right?
What a joke.
by lbk on Jan 3, 2009 11:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
has alistair actually been asked about his workout regimen or PED in any recent interviews?
it seems like a reasonable question of an interview. the dude looks like the hulk.
by Headkick on Jan 2, 2009 7:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
It’s funny how people make threads like this about steroids accusing fighters of doping, yet nobody ever mentions the elephant in the room because everyone loves the fighter in question.
It’s like people getting all over Evans for showboating while exhibiting selective amnesia for the behavior of their favorites.
by Jahbulon on Jan 2, 2009 8:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
his head has gotten quite a bit bigger……just sayin
by DUGASWARRIOR on Jan 2, 2009 9:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely. That’s a huge indication right there. Oh and also, putting on 35 lbs of pure muscle in a year. But that’s pretty normal i guess…LOL.
Dennis Wolf doesn’t even make those types of gains and he’s a HUGE juicer!
by lbk on Jan 2, 2009 9:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly I don't care if he juices
I want the best fighters science can produce. When gene doping becomes possible I’m the first one in line to get my myostatin production halted.
Gimme 1 Round!
by skwirrl on Jan 3, 2009 4:12 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
hope to see him in the ufc
like swirrl said, as a viewer, i dont care if hes juicing. i want to see monster heavyweights, the best that science can produce. haha.
but in all seriousness, i cant say for sure that hes juicing, but i think anyone that trains mma full time can say that its damn hard to put on muscle mass while doing hard cardio 4-6 times a week. not to mention he looks like a big headed hulk now, and has steadily been gaining serious muscle mass. everyone acts like its possible if hes training and lifting hard. but he trains hard full time for mma, how is he supposed to bodybuild like that on the side? ridiculous.
time and time again we’ve seen fighters with sudden jumps in their physiques, and 9x out of 10 they later get busted. vitor, leben, tim sylvia, royce gracie, phil baroni, etc, the list goes on.
by bluejitz on Jan 3, 2009 5:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
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