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The Truth About Andrei Arlovski Challenging for a Boxing Championship

I pointed this out on weoweoweo's fanpost yesterday but as more sites are picking up the story I think it's very important to point a few facts out.

Andrei's well respected boxing coach Freddie Roach made the following comment:

If Andrei wins against Fedor on the 24th, I would put him right into a title fight with (WBA Champion) Nikolai Valuev right away.

A few things need to be realized to put this statement into context.

1) Freddie Roach is a trainer, he does not get to decide if his fighters get title fights, that would be up to the WBA.

2) This fight would have to take place overseas and even then could have some difficulty getting any sort of legitimate sanctioning for a 50-1 champion to face a guy making his pro boxing debut.

3) The WBA (and every other sanctioning body) have rules in place for who is eligible to fight for a world title.  From the WBA's own rules and regulations to be ranked in the top 15 or compete for the world title they much have no less than five ten-round fights or have a regional title.  This is the most important thing here as there is no way for Arlovski to be put into a title fight without meeting these requirements.

So basically if the fight happens it would be a non-title fight and I would find it odd if it were made to be anything over 6 rounds for a guy making his pro debut.  For what it's worth Valuev is not the best heavyweight in the world but he holds several wins over very credible opponents, and while a few decisions in his past have been questionable (see his fight with Holyfield) he is a legitimate boxer and I honestly think he would knock Arlovski out in under four rounds.

This was an example of Roach propping his guy up but Freddie is a legitimately smart trainer and he knows better than to make such a ludicrous fight for a guy's professional debut.

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Its kinda weird. roach has been acting more like a promoter recently. He’s the one who convinced pacquiao to take the de la hoya fight. People were saying that the fight was too dangerous, but roach said he can take the guy and get his biggest payday ever.. He’s also been the one who’s been thrashing de la hoya the whole time leading up to the fight. He’s the one hyping up the fight and saying all these weird things that he (and other trainers) doesnt usually say.

but hey, hes been saying wayyyy before the oscar/pacman fight had been signed, that pacman would easily beat him. Everyone was talking mismatch, especially when the rumors of the fight had just started, but he was right.

I know the title fight woulndt happen because of the several reasons you pointed out, but hey, maybe he’s got a point that arlovski really is a good boxer that could hang with the big boys.

http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/

by Anton Tabuena on Jan 1, 2009 4:57 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

It helps...

that Roach also had trained Oscar and knew his shortcomings.

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 1, 2009 5:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

yup, i know. Thats the main reason he was pushing manny to take the fight. He knew what both guys can do..
while i dont think that arlovski can beat a champ right off the bat, i think roach could be right about arlovski being able to hang with the big boys. (emphasis on the hang) The HW division is really thin, so i think if he beats a couple of guys first he could do really well in boxing.

http://weoweoweo.deviantart.com/

by Anton Tabuena on Jan 1, 2009 6:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I completely agree with this. I actually dont think he would last even four. Im still surprised that Roach would say something like this.

by iamtheoriginalchris on Jan 1, 2009 7:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I can tell you Valuev's shortcomings

He does not have any 1 punch power. He’s so big he does alot of cumulative damage and has a good jab especially for a guy of his size. But he definately is nowhere near as agile as AA would could probably dance and run around him. It is POSSIBLE despite the extreme unlikelyhood of it happening that AA could win a decision against him. Valuev’s lack of 1 punch power gives a smaller guy who can run away from him after getting stung a chance because he can stay away to recover from Valuev’s best shots.

by skwirrl on Jan 1, 2009 8:01 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

That's all true...

I’m very aware of Valuev and his skillset. I’m a boxing fan and former blogger at badlefthook. The Valuev that fought in 06 would easily beat Arlovski…the one that fought Holyfield would be a bit more likely to turn in a turd of a performance and let Arlovski maybe steal a decision. I figure we get a Valuev somewhere in the middle that is good enough to dominate and put Arlovski out in the 5th (were this to ever happen)

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 1, 2009 8:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Bernard Hopkins vs Tarver wasn’t a title fight because Hopkins didn’t want to pay the fee’s…

The possible fight not being a title fight does little to effect the marketability of the fight (whatever the marketability actually is)…

The fight would be between Valuev (heavy weight boxing champion) vs andrei (former UFC heavyweight champion).

Now the real question and the most important question is:

If Boxing can better pay a UFC built star than the UFC is willing to… and what effect will that have?

Right now in MMA no one can better pay than the UFC as they monetize fighters and generate revenue better than any other MMA can presently or could in the foreseeable future…

What if BJ penn can go make 2 or 3 mil a fight in Boxing? or Rampage, etc…?

What if the second tier stars like andrei can routinely get 1- 1.5m per boxing fight?

Can boxing turn Zuffa into a “feeder” organization?

These are the important questions…

These are the questions top paid advisers/consultants in the world get paid to first come up with and then analyze and counter measure.

by mmalogic on Jan 1, 2009 8:07 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I realize...

the fact that non-title may not significantly damage the “marketability of the fight” but that isn’t what Roach is saying. Roach said that he would put him in a title fight which has led to a lot of people taking that idea seriously.

Still…a 12 round fight for a debuting boxer against a world champion? Kind of a joke in my eyes.

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 1, 2009 8:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Now I would be really interested

If Sergei Kharitonov were training with Freddie Roach.

by skwirrl on Jan 1, 2009 8:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

semantics… what he meant was a fight with title holder Valuev.

You’re right, it probably wont be for 12 rounds but i wouldn’t be surprised if they can get it for 10.

by mmalogic on Jan 1, 2009 9:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

not if they hold it in japan on NYE

by #5mmafan on Jan 1, 2009 9:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That’s only gonna happen if Arlovski agrees to dress up as a Dragonball character.

by Rundownloser on Jan 1, 2009 9:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Honestly when I first saw this I thought it might be an idea to try and pull some of that young MMA demorgraphic into boxing similar to the UFC using Brock Lesnar to tap the WWE’s fanbase and spike a strong PPV buyrate. Signing with Golden Boy was mentioned and that sounds like something that would peak their interest.

by who me on Jan 1, 2009 9:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I know another reason.......

The other reason that AA will not be boxing Valuev following his fight with Fedor is that AA will not beat Fedor. Rothwell got AA into spots on the ground that Fedor would have murdered AA from. Roach starts his statement with “If Adrei wins against fedor”. Thats the end of that. Not going to happen.

"Stop smiling you are about to be punched in the face !"

by Warhand on Jan 1, 2009 8:08 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Don't ...

underestimate the WBA’s willingness to bend their rules if there’s a significant amount of money to be made through “special” sanctioning fees in order for them to allow the fight to happen. Assuming, of course, that “The Pit Bull” manages to pull a huge upset by beating Fedor & that as a result, his people can generate enough interest from Valuev’s promoters to make the fight happen.

A lot of big “ifs” for sure, but none of them as remote as many have said.

by Jim Allcorn on Jan 1, 2009 8:09 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

No...

it could not happen. I know we’re going to get into a “boxing sanctioning bodies are corrupt” discussion here. But to be a recognized “world title” they have to adhere to these rules also. It isn’t an entirely “self-imposed rule”

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 1, 2009 8:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

To be clear...

this is a rule from the ABC (association of boxing commissions) and I can promise you that it couldn’t happen for a major world title.

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 1, 2009 8:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe...

He just has a lot of confidence in AA’s skill level

by EazyEismydad on Jan 1, 2009 8:23 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Maybe..

and maybe there is something to it as Roach is a very smart boxing trainer. But still…I don’t buy it.

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 1, 2009 8:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

But ...

 if the fight took place in Europe where the vast majority of fights take place, the ABC wouldn’t be involved.

Besides that, it’s not as if dispensations haven’t been made in the past to allow similar bouts like this proposed one to happen. Let’s remember Olympic Gold Medalist Pete Rademacher’s bid to take the Heavyweight Championship from Floyd Patterson in his pro debut. And, more recently, there was Saensak Muangsurin’s successful bid for the WBC light welterweight title in only his third pro fight after a long Muay Thai career in Thailand.

by Jim Allcorn on Jan 1, 2009 8:32 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I'll have a statement from

WBA officials tomorrow.

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 1, 2009 8:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I’m not saying I do not respect the implications with the WBA but...

I’d like to cite the Wu Tang Clan here when I say "cash rules everything around me". I would not be surprised to see these two fight at some point in time.

However this is all dependent on Fedor getting beat and not so long ago I remember people seriously talking about Fedor’s greatest weakness being his skin, so let’s not get ahead of ourselves.

by lunedi18 on Jan 1, 2009 8:53 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I'm one of those people...

who think that a nice elbow to the brow is the best way to beat him.

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 1, 2009 9:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Which might be the #1 reason he’s not in the UFC when you truly think about it.

"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill

by FlyByKnight on Jan 1, 2009 9:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

An elbow to the brow would do it and seriously may be the best way to do it. But when a fighter’s biggest weakness is his skin, that is a one bad dude. So I’m waiting until after the Fedor fight to get excited about AA’s pro boxing career.

by lunedi18 on Jan 1, 2009 10:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

oh for sure.

Fedor is the very definition of a “bad man” in the Ali sense…

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 1, 2009 10:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm buying the story ...

I think Freddy meant he would put Andrei on a path to challenge for Valuev . . . it was also a major public dis at Valuev. I doubt Freddy Roach has any respect for Valuev considering he actually booked a title match against a 50 year old Evander Holyfield than . . . gulp Holyfied almost won.

You have to remember the sport of boxing. Promoters have traditionally manipulated rankings and title belts however they wanted. AA would not receive a title shot in his boxing debut but Freddy Roach could probably hand pick a list of opponents that heavily favor AA skills to get him in position for a title fight. Valuev is not a very good boxer. I’m sure Freddy Roach could take a guy with minor talent and train him to top Valuev. As long as AA stays away from any fighter named Klitchko or a fighter that could legitimately challenge a Klitchko he could probably do ok.

by bignerd on Jan 1, 2009 10:49 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

For what it's worth...

Holyfield DID win…the judges robbed him. That fight SUCKED but Evander won it on every scorecard I’ve seen anywhere (except the official ones)

I don’t doubt that a seasoned AA could be a tough fight for Valuev…But that wasn’t what Roach said.

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 1, 2009 11:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Boxing should have implemented

a round-by-round, transparent scoring system a decade ago. Pop the results up on the big screen and let the fans boo the judges into oblivion if they’re obviously slanting it. Then there’s none of the potential for abject robbery at the end of a fight.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

by misterjonez on Jan 1, 2009 11:46 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

They have it

and its horrible and an abject failure. They pop up the judges cards at the end of the 4th and 8th rounds. And Fighters will have won enough rounds to know they have the fight locked up at the end of the 8th and will just run for the last 4 rounds

by skwirrl on Jan 1, 2009 11:59 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah...

it absolutely ruins fights. Both watching them and participating in them.

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 2, 2009 9:48 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Valuev is terrible

Seriously, he was challenged by an undersized 50 year old. Seasoned or not a 50 year old fighter does not posses the reflexes to even step in the ring with a true boxing champion let alone almost defeat him.

I would not say this of any other boxing champion because I highly respect their skills, but put a guy in their with some boxing training, a pulse and a full boxing camp and he has a excellent chance to beat Valuev . . . he is that terrible. You put a guy like AA in their against a true top ranked fighter and I agree he doesn’t stand a chance.

by bignerd on Jan 2, 2009 12:18 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

just hush up freddy

As bad as Valuev is (and he is pretty damn bad don’t let the record fool you) he would kill AA.

Some though Freddy was delusional when he said Manny would beat up Oscar but theres a huge difference here, both Manny and Oscar are boxers, Manny the best fighter in the world no less so it wasn’t such a stretch. But I think hes just barking up AA here. Notice he didn’t say either of the Klitschko brothers or a top contender like Sam Peter (either 3 would destroy AA) he said he should go after Valuev. Its more a testimate at how bad Valuev is than anything.

by sonofapsycho on Jan 1, 2009 11:48 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Yeah nobody's said anything of the sort to debate that

so really whats your point? AA has been training with Freddie for a couple years now. He wouldn’t say it if he didn’t believe it. And Valuev is very beatable.

by skwirrl on Jan 2, 2009 12:01 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

just because hes been training with freddy for two years you think he can beat a guy with 51 professional fights?

my point was freddy is talking out of his ass.

yes valuev is very beatable…but to a professional boxer which AA is not by any means.

is silly really, the wba would lose all face and whatever little credibility they have left to even sanction the fight as brent has said before.

by sonofapsycho on Jan 2, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, I take what Brent says about boxing as gospel, but AA has had pro fights. Not in boxing, but he is a pro fighter. I think the WBA might see dollar signs and give it the go ahead particularly if AA beats Fedor in a convincing fasion. He will be ranked in the top 15 in the world in MMA, but they might let that slide by. I mean Brock Lesner got a pass and got a title shot after only one legit win and a credible backround in wrestling. The UFC doesn’t have stated rules for title shots, but AA fighting for a title is huge for MMA, huge for Afliction, and inject a lot of new eyeballs into the boxing world. Do I think AA would win, not at all, but its not like they are getting a guy out of the crowd. He would be able to defend himself. The question I would pose to the WBA is, would they take his MMA backround and sucess into concideration or would they concider him just another fighter making his debut?

by szucconi on Jan 2, 2009 7:51 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Ya know why...

You know why this is even remotely possible… because heavyweight boxers aren’t any good these days. I’ve watched plenty of heavyweight battles, and Arlovski could actually do something in the ring. With one punch knockout power, a heavyweight with some good technical skills can come from MMA and compete instantly at heavyweight.

I wouldn’t give lightweights a chance, but at heavyweight, he could.

Editor-in-chief of MMA-Analyst.com

by Leland Roling on Jan 2, 2009 3:35 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Klitschko's, Chagaev and

and perhaps David Haye aside, (we’ll see after how he does against Vitali), there really is a dearth of talent. But the Klits could compete in ANY era.

Gimme 1 Round!

by skwirrl on Jan 3, 2009 5:43 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Based on size alone...

…absolutely. Not to downplay their boxing ability (although recent bouts have been a little…unwatchable) but there just were not skilled guys of their size in boxing prior to the current era. So yeah, they’d be a force in any era.

Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.

by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 3, 2009 10:06 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Leland, ...

are you joking?

With fighters like Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Norton, Quarry & Jimmy Young ruling the heavyweight division, there’s just no way AA could compete!

Whoops!
Sorry friend, I thought I was back in the ’70s there for a moment. LOL!

Seriously though, I tend to agree with much of what you said.
Once we look past the Klitschko bros & a handful of others, the division is REALLY lacking. And, judging from what I’ve seen in his last couple of fights, AA has got some damn good hands. Good enough I think that he could be a very dangerous guy for three, maybe four rounds if matched properly. Going in as pure puncher that is. If he tries to go in as a boxer would, conscious of the fight’s distance & thinking of going the distance, then forget it. He’d get picked apart & stopped in the mid rounds.
But going in as a kill or be killed banger, he could be dangerous.

by Jim Allcorn on Jan 2, 2009 8:57 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

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