Discrepancy of the Day: Race and MMA
by Luke Thomas on Sep 9, 2008 7:12 PM EDT
in MMA News
Email
PrintA reader writes:
The host is a pretentious ass. I heard him on Big O and Dukes today.
Here's my thoughts, you ass.
Chcuk Liddell was favored because he was the face of the MMA and a good fighter, not because he was white.
If a single ESPN announcer mispronounces an unknown black man's name, it doesn't mean ESPN, as an organization is racist. It means the unknwon black man had an unusual name.
Don't presume to tell the UFC who they should promote to: they can decide that for themselves. Also, as hard as it may be for you to believe, black people can decide what to watch and support without being told it's OK by Dana WHite or by you, you ass. DOn't patronize racial and ethnic groups like your the daddy of all black people. And don't belittle white for liking whitw fighters.
Chuck Liddell was and is an enetertaining guy. He didn't commit a crime like Michael Vick, so I think it's still acceptable for white folks to like him. Just as blacks still support MV, despite his crimnal history.
I don't have much to say in the way of a response given that this person has no concept of what the thrust of my arguments actually are. But clearly, there is an element of MMA fans who do not like issues of race infused into discussion of the sport. I would say "I wonder why?" but I don't.
UPDATE: It is quite clear to me based on many of the comments in this post that folks are reading the clownshoes' description of my arguments above as if they were accurate. Let me suggest that disagreeing with me is perfectly fine provided you hear what I actually said. If it still bothers you after that, then lay into me.
136 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
well if you looks at the UFC’s target audience (ppv buyers), and…
Bottom line… who buys ppv’s?
whites and latinos.
It’s not a racist thing it’s a business thing.
Right
The notion that you can’t get blacks to support the support further participate it in is ridiculous.
you can… but they won’t make or break it.
Unfortunately they are not the core audience when you look for the “tipping point” in this industry.
They are a niche market and have to be targeted via fighters just like the US japanese market, US korean market, etc….
The only 2 markets that matter are the whites and latinos.
The only 2 that matter???
I think there is one demographic that matters or should matter… is males 15-60… There is no marketing toward the niche US Japanese, the niche US korean demographics and very little to the niche African American market or niche female market. They are pushing Bisping and now Hardy for the UK market, Vera for the Filipino market, Velasquez for the latino market, etc… Where are they pushing or bringing in the big name Japanese fighters. Where are the calenders of guys like GSP or Huerta for the ladies. Rampage should be a household name, but the UFC failed to capitalize on his charisma/personality. Once the UFC gains ground with those markets, other media (ESPN) will take notice and give more coverage to this sport.
I think that is unfair...
the UFC put Jackson on TUF figuring that his personality would be allowed to shine there. He would have gotten a lot more support and established himself a lot more had he not lost to Forrest.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 10, 2008 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Sorry
It should read:
The notion that you can’t get blacks to further participate or invest in the sport is ridiculous.
Also, most of the audience at the events appear to be white. On mmafacts.com, there is a picture of the diverse audience and all I seen was a bunch of white folk.
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
http://www.mmafacts.com/main.cfm?actionId=globalShowStaticContent&screenKey=cmpFan&s=mma
"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007
"Mixed martial arts draws diverse and enthusiastic fan base"
That’s classic. (Though in fairness they’re talking gender and economic diversity.)
You know what it is Luke?
Its being sick and tired of the reverse racism shit. Its ok for blacks to wanna kill whites in Rap songs. Its blacks being able to make fun of whites on tv and whites not being able to do the same. Its people like you that feel guilty about being white. Its people that try to make white people feel guilty for something they didnt do. Its blacks hating whites and that being acceptable. Its ok Luke. It really is. Its ok to be white. Its ok. And if Rashad KO’s Chuck and white people are mad because they like Chuck thats ok too. Its ok that Chuck vs Rampage at a bar that whites groaned and blacks cheered at the result. Its not ok that the news media fails to report that 93 fucking percent of black people are voting for Obama. Its no ok for black people to be openly racist. And its not o fucking k for for peoples favorite fighter to lose. Give it up ya fucking wigger.
Ordinarily, I’d delete this for me being called “a fucking wigger”, but the rest of the diatribe is instructive about how I’m imaging a large portion of MMA fans (and perhaps White Americans in general) feel about matters like this.
This one time at a wake my nuts itched like crazy while the priest was giving the sermon (eulogy? Not sure the proper term). I couldn’t stand up and leave without being disrespectful, and I couldn’t scratch it without looking crass… so I just dealt with it. I’m sure if anyone looked closely they would have seen the irritation plainly on my face. Man it was annoying that I couldn’t scratch that itch but eh — it eventually went away and the rest of the wake was very nice.
wow
you were kind of making a point, then you just went off the deep end. just throw your hood on and burn a cross man.
racism isn’t getting better in this country, it’s getting worse. it’s driven primarily by class, too…whites on the bottom end of the socioeconomic (and educational, see above) spectrum turn on brown folk of various types for their scapegoat. it’s been set up that way since pre-revolutionary times, keeping poor white folk as a buffer between the brown folk and the master classes. so good job, mr, nice guy. you’re a perfect object lesson.
-- I've misplaced my pants.
I have no idea how black people feel… but if my ancestors were brought here as slaves and then once free decided to stand up for themselves and found the gov’t pumping drugs into their neighborhoods to better control them… thus ruining generations with crack babies and destroying the environment where being a gangbanger is all you can see…
On top of that if you knew the statistics on how many innocent blacks go to jail, and guilty blacks who get maximum sentences vs whites who get the minimum (correlate the justice system into just about every facet of life in america)…
You’d be jumping off rooftops at every chance you saw a homeboy kick the shit out of a white boy.
Yes the more constructive thing to do is love everyone and just make lemonade out of the lemons… but not everyone is nelson mendela.
You need a little insight into social engineering in order to better understand why blacks cheer when OJ was released even though most knew he was guilty and when they will cheer, root or vote for black no matter what.
by mmalogic on Sep 9, 2008 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Being a minority, all I am going to say is the government didn’t pump drugs into our neighborhoods. We did. We bought/sold them to each other in a desire to get rich and escape the crappy existence that was the ghetto. It frankly was advancement by stepping on each other. The government is our scapegoat.
You see all kinds of people do the same thing with pyramid schemes like cash gifting for example.
I have only seen what was posted above so I dont really know what the whole discussion was about but did you ever think maybe the reason that people dont like race infused into discussion of the sport is because not everything has to do with race, although some people (the ones that say they are not racist) try to make everything about it. And maybe people are sick of hearing race used as an excuse for everything. MMA is a business and will do what ever makes them the most money, be it a white, black, or purple fighter. Kimbo is the biggest fighter in EliteXC because he can make them the most money (not because he is better than all the white fighters in the organization!!!) but I dont see anyone saying it is because of race. (P.S. Isnt it wierd that you never see anyone complain that there arent enough white basketball players.)
P.P.S. I was really really saddened to see Chuck lose because he is my favorite fighter not because he lost to a black fighter, because he lost to anyone and I root for him. Anderson Silva is my second favorite fighter.
P.P.P.S. Maybe the reason that the UFC doesnt have a large black audience but basketball does is because most of the fighters in UFC are white and blacks are racist. Do I believe that is the reason, no, but I could argue it if my reasoning was like yours.
You said…
“There is an element of MMA fans who do not like issues of race infused into discussion of the sport. I would say I wonder why? but I don’t.”
Insinuating that the reason they dont want to discuss race is because they are racist. My point was maybe the reason that people dont like race infused into discussion of the sport is because not everything has to do with race. People boo’d because one of there favorite fighter lost. If Rashad get a few more knockouts like that and stops showboating I think you will start to see a lot more cheers for him. If it was because of his race, why hasnt he been bood at every fight hes won? My point was, not everyone has to equate everything to race… For example, I would not insinuate that mispronouncing Rashad’s name was possibly racist such as you did, when I know it was just a mistake by someone who doesnt know much about the sport.
Sure not everything has to do with race, but when a stadium full of white southerners boo’s a black man who just beat up a popular white man, eyebrows are going to get raised.
Racism has been a part of fighting for several generations now. Look up Jack Johnson and tell me fighting doesn’t have anything to do with race.
Of course Im not say no racism exist in the world anymore but Jack Johnson was born in 1878, I think its fair to say thats not the same.
I never said it was the same, just that racism isn’t some new topic that’s being injected into the fight world. It’s been here forever and you should probably learn to deal with it in a rational and upfront manner rather than closing your eyes and pretending it never existed.
I dont pretend like it never existed but I also dont like people like mmamagic above telling us that its okay for black people to be racist but not whites, because its not okay for anyone. No one thats alive now has been a slave and I dont owe anyone anything. If you act like a normal human being I will treat you like one. Take some responsibility for yourself. I dont think it helps when people try to make race a topic when its really not, that just separates everyone more.
Its okay to root for people who are like you, people you can identify with, certainly its okay for black people to have pride in thier race, why not me? I am Irish and like to root for Marcus Davis, so what? I also like to root for the USA in the Olympics because Im from the United States. Its just not okay to hate people who arent like you.
So you’re saying you wish it were okay for you to be racist. Sweet.
by George Lucas on Sep 10, 2008 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree
My very first post on these here forums were in reply to an article about people who didn’t like Kimbo being racist.
Racism is very very real still, and it’s also a term that gets very very abused. Not saying it’s the case here but I do find it a bit eye-roll-worthy every time race is made an issue where it doesn’t belong.
P.S. Isnt it wierd that you never see anyone complain that there arent enough white basketball players
Larry Bird did a few years back.
by Blackout612 on Sep 10, 2008 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s not exactly comparable to say the outcry over there not being enough African Americans in MLB (even though the percentage of Americans in MLB that are of African descent is actually right in line with the percentage of Americans who are of African descent in the general population).
by Richard Wade on Sep 10, 2008 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm Mexican
aka Latino, and I agree. Whites and Latinos ARE the main audience that buys the PPV’s. And I also agree with MrNiceGuyMMA, reverse racism pisses me the EFF off. I just wish there was a reset button and we could all go and make fun of each other without getting all pissy and offended.
by xFenixKnightx on Sep 9, 2008 5:45 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I'm not Latino/Mexican,
but other than that..
+1
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Pronunciation
Kind of off the subject, but mispronouncing Rashad on SportsCenter is inexcusable. You’re the supposed “worldwide leader in sports,” take two seconds to double check the guy’s name if you’re not sure. You may as well run a graphic on the screen telling the hundreds of thousands of people who love MMA “we don’t care enough about your sport to even get the names right.”
I don’t know that I’d go with inexcusable. I’ve heard plenty of athletes have their names mispronounced by announcers. During the Panthers-Chargers game, for instance, they referred to Jeromey Clary as Jerome. That football announcer was clearly disrespecting the sport.
It probably has more to do with his nickname be Sugar Rashad……. Every famous Sugar-monikered fighter known to the sporting public was a Ray…… If they are unfamiliar with Rashad……which most mainstream folks aren’t….then i can see the sports caster thinking he must pronounce it Ray-shad…if he is calling himself Sugar Rashad……. not saying getting it wrong is okay but understandable….
Mike Goldberg on robnashville:
"His analysis is so analytical"
I thought it was intentional to call attention to that fact. I don’t know what Luke said about it on the radio, but it certainly didn’t seem like a mistake to me….
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ. -- TangleBones
This was my exact thought when I first heard it on the ESPN clip.
I thought nothing of it until reading accusations of racism here…
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
You can’t really blame ESPN for that when the UFC’s own talking heads are talking about Rewzimarr Paul-Harez.
Brock Lesnar mispronounces Frank Mir. I guess he hates his people. I don’t know the whole story, but name mishaps happen all the time.
Kinda makes him look dumb when he can’t say his opponents name right, who he’s fighting, for money. Same way it makes the announcer to dumb. And probably lazy for not taking the time to figure it out.
I listen to Americans butcher French Canadian names all the time. Does that mean that they’re racist because of it? Or ignorant? In the vast majority of cases, I expect not. It likely means they haven’t been exposed to it or don’t know any better. And when I mean I hear it happens, I’m talking about in news, sports, etc coverage.
What a thread. I hear names said wrong all the time. It has nothing to do with race. It usually means the speaker knows nothing about the person they are covering.
Right
Which, if people would take the time to actually listen to me, is what I said during the interview. I said I was tempted to call it a racist trespass, but that it wasn’t.
If people would like me to be convinced by their arguments, perhaps they could do a little homework first.
Potentially objectionable comments by Luke Thomas before I quit listening...
Basically he insinuated mispronouncing Rashad’s name was possibly racist, but then disregarded that as likely.
Then he said the UFC ought to be promoting Rashad to African Americans.
Then he called white people from Atlanta racist for cheering for their “white hero,” Chuck Liddell and booing his opponent Rashad Evans.
He says to look at how Quinton Jackson was treated before he was determined to be “safe” and “funny,” then remarks how he “still got boo’d” when he KO’d Chuck Liddell.
African Americans are “grossly under-served” in the sport and white people like MMA for the same reason Latinos like boxing because of the sameness they see in the ring.
The only problem I have with this is lumping everyone who cheered for Liddell into the racist group, which I suspect wasn’t intentional and he later makes the point that Liddell is very popular which does a better job of explaining why his opponents who beat him are boo’d than racism does (though that almost certainly accounts for some of it.
I don’t think Luke said anything particularly offensive, but I can definitely see where people who only listened to this and haven’t read Luke before think he’s pushing the racism angle.
More/less. The only thing you can really fault him for is being unclear at times and a lack of tact at times.
That’s true, but nitpicking is like a sport. It’s inevitable that somebody is going to be offended or insulted when you approach a subject that’s controversial. Precision is pretty important at these points. I understand that it’s easier to be precise when writing, than it is on live radio. I listened to the segment, and I can’t say that Luke said anything really offensive. I can’t say that I agree with everything that was said, but those are his opinions. It’s not like the opinions were being presented as fact.
by Cannon Jacques on Sep 9, 2008 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed.
It’s not the same as having a conversation with someone, who will give you cues to re-word a particular phrase if you mis-spoke or said something potentially inflammatory.
As for polishing your views, Rush Limbaugh makes $30-40mil/year off the tarnish, because people want to hear their own views validated. Forget polish, just be reasonable as it relates to your audience, and have conviction in your views. Let the rest take care of itself.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
I don’t really feel like chiming in on the race thing. But I do like the fact that Luke referred to the guy as “clownshoes”.
edit: the reason why 93% (not backed up with any supporting data) of black folks are going to vote for Obama is because a large majority of black people are democrats. But lets not turn this into a political discussion.
"No one makes me bleed my own blood."
by monkeyfightclub! on Sep 9, 2008 6:23 PM EDT reply actions
I agree with Luke whole handedly
A majority of MMA fans suck. I was at a bar to watch the fights somewhere in Seattle and I must say Seattle is one of the more racially diverse and accepting cities in the US, but watching the Brown v Kim fight was brutal. Guys were yelling and booing Kim because of the slow fight. Someone yelling, “he looks like a yellow monkey on that dudes back” and a bunch of guys laughing at that . When Kim won the decision, everyone boo’d and errupted in a chorus of “fuck the korean” at the tv.. And the bar owners are Korean… downright dispicable.
I must also note, the bar was only half full at the start of the broadcast, but there was only standing room by the time Chuck was fighting. The only reason they were there was to see their “white hero”. Most of the guys that were they were ignorant of almost everything involved in MMA. Everytime the fight hit the ground, they started boo’ing, yelling to stand them up.
Once ESPN covers MMA, I believe the quality of fans will improve because ESPN is the perfect platform to educate the new/ignorant fans. We can only hope
“I must also note, the bar was only half full at the start of the broadcast, but there was only standing room by the time Chuck was fighting. The only reason they were there was to see their "white hero".”
What? Ya, I dont know why the bar would be more full for the main event than the prelims??? Its just like when I go to a concert and the arena fills up more by the time the headlining band comes on, damn racism!!!
I was just making note of that fact, in no way did i say that coming in late was racist. The booing of rashad, swearing at rashad and just yelling for no reason might be racist and irritating. The bar charges a cover to watch the fight, so why pay to watch a fight for 15 mins. Also, they were the typical affliction wearing, faux-hawk hair style, dont know nothing about mma crowd. The bar is a well known place to watch the fights and is usually packed before the fights even start. I get in an hour before the fights to get a table.
*didn’t reply…
listen to the podcast
Listen first and see what this debate is all about before saying I said so and so was a racist. The white hero remark was refering back to the radio show and just adding commentary on who goes to fights and for what reasons. So a person likes Chuck? I’m not automatically throwing you in the same categories as fucking white supremacist or neo-nazi. What I’m trying to say is you like the fighter that you can relate to most to. What thats says about you I don’t know, but the things you say in support of your fav fighter can show a lot about who you are. And the things some people said were racist and/or ignorant…
My early favorite fighters list went something like this:
(note:I’m as white as you can be without red hair, green eyes and freckles from my neck half-way down my back, although I do have cousins who match that description)
Obviously the first was Royce Gracie. He opened all of our eyes to the reality of true one-on-one combat. Dude was pretty much the epitome of brown, no?
Next was Kimo – he was a punk, but he was combining a few different approaches, and he looked kool, including his skin color which was markedly different than my own.
Then Mark Coleman – had nothing to do with skin color, dude was a damned beast and literally invented ground-and-pound. Headbutts in the guard. Awesome.
Kevin Jackson – first guy I remember slamming his opponent while being arm-barred. I attended a wrestling camp of his once. Dude was 100% black. A bit of an ass, from my own experience, but no more than most world-class jocks.
Kevin Randleman – athletic, great wrestler and had awesome hair. Always liked the way bleach blond looks on insanely ripped black guys.
I never associate with fighters based on their geography or genetic profile. I also don’t know anyone who does, nor have I ever conversed with a fellow MMA fan, in real life, who has made any type of disparaging remark about a fighter’s genetic background. Cultural profiles are a topic of debate, because they’re relevant to understanding a fighters character. But never genes, at least not in a bad way.
I guess I’m just stumped by the notion that people would actually care about that. To me, Ichiro Suzuki is my favorite baseball player because he’s insanely fun to watch, and he’s great at what he does. Would it make it better if he were white? No, in fact it might make him less interesting, if anything.
The only time I’ve ever seen what most would call racism in fighting is when it comes to my good Mexican friends, or my Filipino friends rooting for their boxers. But that’s not racism, not at all. That’s nationalism. HUGE difference.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Exactly right.
Nationalistic pride in athletes exists all over the world. The olympics is the perfect example.
I was just making note of that fact, in no way did i say that coming in late was racist. The booing of rashad, swearing at rashad and just yelling for no reason might be racist and irritating. The bar charges a cover to watch the fight, so why pay to watch a fight for 15 mins. Also, they were the typical affliction wearing, faux-hawk hair style, dont know nothing about mma crowd. The bar is a well known place to watch the fights and is usually packed before the fights even start. I get in an hour before the fights to get a table.
But you did
call them racist:
“The only reason they were there was to see their "white hero"”
Don't give up, just pull a Nick Serra!
Who cares?
People tend to cheer for people they identify with, does make Americans racist for cheer for the American teams in the Olympics? No, of course not. Now if they go" I’m going to cheer for that guy because his opponent is black, and I hate blacks," then that’s racist.
I wasted about 30 minutes listening to this podcast. I respect Luke but have to blame him for unnecessarily pulling out the race card for an unknown reason. When asked about the pay of Rashad and Chuck, he responded with something like this:
“It (Rashad’s pay) is going to go up. But ask Dukes, who came to see Rashad Evans? Those racist clowns in Atlanta. They came to see their white hero in Chuck Liddell.”
Was it necessary or classy in the context of the question asked. Definately not called for in my opinion. It kind of took the wrong approach to wherever he wanted the direction of the conversation to go to in my opinion. In radio you can’t edit your thoughts before posting so the speaker must be more cautious about what they say. There’s a difference between having a conversation about race and pointing fingers or name calling. But then again what do we know with our clownshoes’ descriptions of what we thought we heard?
Jesus H. Christ
You couldn’t be more wrong. Yes, I pulled the race card, but not on the issue of why Liddell makes more money. Come the fuck on, friendo.
Just in case the last comment is clear: go back to the podcast. That isn’t AT ALL what I said about why Liddell makes more money.
This is getting pathetic.
I think you could have saved yourself a ton of trouble by either getting a transcript of the show or at least clarifying your remarks in the original post.
by Richard Wade on Sep 9, 2008 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Fair enough, but it seems like you wasted more time telling people to go listen to the radio show (some of whom didn’t have that option) than it would have taken to quickly type out what you’d said.
by Richard Wade on Sep 10, 2008 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Personally, I just hope this is a great learning experience
and that we all, especially the BE writers/editors, can do better the next time around.
People inevitably will bog any discussion of race down, and I won’t even throw out reasons why that could be. It’s just disgusting, and it’s totally non-productive.
I personally don’t have a problem with the discussion, but it’s obviously gone in a direction that isn’t helping our MMA knowledge expand too much.
There is a legitimate, serious issue at the center of this. I think Luke overplayed it, but I do think he’s onto something which bears further investigation.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Just make sure it’s not a white guy because that’d make you a racist.
by Richard Wade on Sep 10, 2008 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Booo-urns
This whole converstion is pretty silly, though. I don’t think he had a concrete, definable point— just some thinking out loud that could be easily misconstrued by the same people that shit a chocolate squirrel over Brock Lesnar pretending to be at a rodeo. The Chuck comment seems like a general sentiment that may be more closely associated with the overall show (Stun Gun’s treatment, perhaps? Brown is NOT wildly popular, why else boo the asian dude?). Again, I don’t have any leaning either way in the matter. Just think everyone should take a deep breath (And for the record, the whole reverse-racism rant by a white guy is an eye-roller in my book).
by Blackout612 on Sep 10, 2008 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions
We agree that this thread is silly. That’s why I made a joke.
by Richard Wade on Sep 10, 2008 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions
For sure..
Just some general comments, not really associated with your comment. Kind of shrugging at it all..
Gotcha.
I’ve never enjoyed the race discussions because it always degenerates into, well, this thread is actually a more civil discussion than most.
by Richard Wade on Sep 10, 2008 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions
This blog is more civil than most. I don’t usually participate in forums of this nature, but there’s a pretty good group of regular commentors and nary any bullshit to wade through. There’s probably a bizarro version of this conversation happening elsewhere in which the term nuthugger has been used 106 times already.
And if you’ll believe it, it’s actually gotten far worse than it once was.
by Richard Wade on Sep 10, 2008 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s still better than say Sherdog or TCM.
by Richard Wade on Sep 10, 2008 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions
No quibbles with that assessment.
Best I’ve found by far, and I’m quite the miner.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Until reading this thread I always considered Luke Thomas a straight up impartial dude who loved mma and called it how he saw it with regards to mma. I’m now left with the impression that he is a smug, condescending, left wing jerkoff who is using this blog as a forum to impose his cynical beliefs on modern social race issues targeting unsuspecting mma fans who love this sport and are here for no other reason. How dare you refer to Chuck as “white hero” with racial undertone to justify fans booing Rashad when he KOed Chuck. Besides the fact that it is pretty much unanimously agreed Rashad is a showboat, the booing is most likely attributed to the fact that Chuck is ummmmm lets see? THE MOST POPULAR FIGHTER IN MMA HISTORY! That argument is so fucking retarted I will cease to elaborate further! Your obviously one of the white people who is always sweating cramming the enclyopedia of how to be politically correct with regards to race because obviously your overcompensating for something! Do you realize that the reason most of us come to sites and blogs like this is because MMA is our outlet away from all the bullshit politics of this over sensitive country? You wanna link a mispronunciation of a fighters name from someone who probably never spoke it in his life to racism? A bit cynical JUST MAYBE? Who the fuck do you think you are anyway? You think people don’t notice in every retort you have to use some “Im a journalist and my poop doesnt smell college dictionary words” to demonstrate your clear superiority of intellect to us “racist simpletons” I know it won’t mean shit to you but you just lost the respect and attention of at least one reader and of you keep up this pc fingerpointing bullshit I can almost promise the number will continue to multiply!!
Dude. Paragraph breaks (and spell check) are your friends.
by Richard Wade on Sep 10, 2008 4:15 AM EDT up reply actions
This post is more representative of the general direction
that ‘discussions’ of race/racism tend to generate. I’m not saying there aren’t salient points here, but it’s not like it’s all that relevant to the subject matter of MMA.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Here’s the truth: if you don’t like my views, fine. But you are a very sad character with issues unrelated to me. To even bring up “college dictionary words” (btw, WTF is a “college dictionary?”) is beyond pathetic.
Must have been
your use of the words “a”, “the”, and “of”. Shame on you! Start dumbing it down!
….who is using this blog as a forum to impose his cynical beliefs on modern social race issues targeting unsuspecting mma fans…
I knew it! Luke is the propaganda machine we’ve all heard so much about!
Well, that settles the political debate – there is no left right or right wing, there is only Luke.
Calling someone retarted (retarded) is considered very offensive by many
And you said most of us come here to escape politics. Not only is that not true, but you also generalized MMA fans.
by Blackout612 on Sep 10, 2008 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Ahh yes paragraph breaks and spell check are friends of mine, just like black panthers and hippies alike are pals with you and your buddy Luke!
Not only does this not make any sense, but by clearly not using paragraph breaks and spell checks, you’ve succeeded in defeating whatever pathetic point about Luke’s left-bias you were trying to make. Congratulations.
by George Lucas on Sep 10, 2008 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Gmurda, with his spelling errors aside, makes a valid point about Luke as to why I will now not listen to his show anymore. I am also tempted to give up on this site until he clears some things up.
Why even bring it up race at all?
Plenty of big name fighters fight people who are of a different race / ethnicity yet some how this particular fight is singled out with vague references of race? Luke admits up front what a charged argument race seems bring to the table yet feigns ignorance as to why this board is blowing up.
Kinda like the dude that yells fire in a crowded the gives a not-so-coy reaction as to why people are freaking out.
Careful Luke, your politics are showing. First it was your jingoism comments and now this.
If you want to bail, bail. It’s a terrible reason to do so, but I don’t care.
I’m not letting my politics show at all. One’s political views – should – be a deeply complex set of beliefs rooted and bonded together at least somewhat coherently.
The truth is ESPN, FoxSports, NBC, ABC, CBS and every other news organization will broach the subject of race from time to time as it relates to athletics, yet no one bats an eye. I tend to think it’s a relevant point of discussion here and I think it’s a relevant point to bring up why so few African-Americans participate in the sport, sit in the stands and follow the sport. And when crowds chant “USA” at non-Olympic events for moronic reasons, I bring up jingoism. That’s not personal politics: those are glaring issues staring everyone in the face.
If folks are so sensitive about racial discussions or my views on them that they work themselves into a lather of indignation, that’s their cross to bear, not mine. Either way, when relevant, I’m going to continue to race.
The choice is your’s.
Luke didn't "bring up" race...
Race is a consistent theme in MMA. The evidence is overwhelming at live shows. Luke is just commentating and doing his job as a pundit, challenging the direction of the sport and calling for inclusivity. Personally, I share his perspective on this 100%. But if you don’t, that’s fine. But don’t kill the messenger, just cuz you wanna have your head in the sand about one of MMA’s most unfortunate limitations.
MMA fans tend to be white dudes (like me) and the sport often appeals to the base elements in all of us. But, just because so many fans identify with fighters that look like they do, doesn’t mean they need to act all ignorant about it. I live in the South and it took me a long time to learn to appreciate Chuck Liddell. I thought he was a hick with one trick: the right hand. I was wrong (sort of) and now I really like his fighting style and seeing others fighters trying to figure him out (as Evans did this weekend). Prejudice and bias happens. Don’t get all defensive about it.
Now, if I did have a beef with Luke about pointing out the reality of race in MMA, it would be that I wanna hear solutions, cuz the redundant storyline of USA USA USA chants for every white fighter is depressing to me.
LT: congrats on the Sherdog gig. A good move for you and them. They need a new left winger now that Gross is gone. Kidding! Just playin around.
(“hick with one trick.” Where do I come up with them?)
“MMA fans tend to be white dudes”
I cant make black people watch MMA and Im not going to appologize for the fact that it is more popular with white poeple. I dont believe there is some big white conspiracy holding them out of the sport. They can watch whatever they want and they choose not to watch or attend shows, that is their decision.
Also, I would tend to believe that most Koreans watching the Brown/Dong fight (is it racist for me to say that?!) were rooting for him because he is from their country, but I would guess that you would not find that racist.
Of course there are always going to be people who are ignorant out there (and guess what, fighting tends to attract a lot of those people) but I dont think it is a prevalent theme in MMA and I think you lumping everyone into that category as if a majority of (white) MMA fans are racist is not right. There are plenty of black fighters that are loved, defended, and cheered for by fans. Can you name other times where a fighter was bood because he beat a white fighter? (Not that I think thats the reason it happened this time.) If so, lets hear them. If not, lets get back to talking about the sport instead of bringing up race where it doesnt belong.
"Can you name other times where a fighter was bood because he beat a white fighter?"
When Rampage beat Chuck the second time. Or how about the local show where I personally heard someone in the crowd yell to a black guy who won over his admittedly out of shape white opponent to “go back to African roundball”, which is presumably basketball.
I can do this all day.
by Luke Thomas on Sep 10, 2008 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Everybody gets boos and cheers at every show. Most people are going to get bood for beating Chuck (he is the face of UFC, the most popular fighter ever in the sport) especially if they are just coming over from PRIDE and unknown to a lot of fans (or seen as coming from a rival organization). Hearing a guy at a show yell something vulgar doesnt prove anything, like I said, there are always going to be people like that. When the fighter someone is rooting for gets beat you hear a lot of people yell stupid things and boo no matter what race the person is.
This is the argumentative equivalent of shoving your fingers in your ear and yelling LALALALALA
by George Lucas on Sep 10, 2008 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I could go on all day too, with times where Rampage Jackson, Anderson Silva, etc. were cheered by the fans. Do yourself a favor, pull up your panties & stop appologizing for being white (there are people like that in every race, its just okay for them to do it). Black people root for black people, korean people root for koreans, latinos root for latinos, and its okay. I dont think Rashad needs you to defend him, I doubt if hes crying himself to sleep. Lets get on with a real discussion about fighting.
I was also at the first CBS EliteXC show and a majority of people there were white, and while there were some Kimbo haters (and thats okay, you can dislike a black man without it being racist), most of the people there came to see Kimbo beat the crap out of someone (who happens to be white).
One last point and then Im done with this topic for good. When Canadians were rooting for GSP over Matt Serra, were you thinking about how racist it was? Or when they were rooting for Bisping in England? I think not. Double standard, I think so.
We are talking about hometown stars now? Canadians felt as if Serra had disrespected the entire lot of them, and booed him. That was a media creation, and hype for the fight. Double standard> No.
Bisping is the LONE star from the UK. Of course they’re going to cheer extra hard for him, but we’re not talking about simply cheering for a fighter. We’re alluding to the slurs, and disrespect fighters have become victim to when they’re doing nothing but fighting, and/or winning.
Which is another fun point, nationalism is only okay if you’re not from America.
by Richard Wade on Sep 10, 2008 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s not a point, that’s a straw man.
by George Lucas on Sep 10, 2008 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Hardly. I have yet to hear anyone complain when an audience in Canada is 100% behind Canadian fighters, or when an English crowd is 100% behind English fighters, yet without fail people will bitch and moan about any American audience that roots for a fighter only on the basis of their nationality.
by Richard Wade on Sep 11, 2008 4:13 AM EDT up reply actions
You Seem to Not Grasp the Point Entirely...
The argument isn’t that there has never been a popular fighter of another ethnicity; the problem seems to be with the blatant prejudices that the majority of the fans (which are white, as you’ve conceded) with fighters that are not white males. We aren’t talking about hardcores who follow the sport as thoroughly as many of us may; the audience that is the UFC crowd is compiled of young, white males, and their female counterparts who came to see someone get beat down. Theres nothing wrong with being a fan of a fighter, but the amount of disrespect to fighters from other cultures is ridiculous, and blatant. I can understand not liking a fighter, but imagine if every new white fighter was booed after an obvious win, because the crowd was pro dominantly comprised of another race. Maybe then you would understand
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
MMA Rankings
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
